Powerful article on being the child who accidentally kills.

[nolabear]

Last edited Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:40 AM - Edit history (1)

Poet Gregory Orr. He nails it, without rage or blame. But so much sadness.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/opinion/sunday/reflections-on-a-shooting-range-death-from-one-who-knows.html?smid=fb-share

I posted an incredibly moving poem of Orr's about his experience, but pnwmom objected to my having posted it due to possible copyright infringement. I don't agree, but she feels strongly about it and asked me to instead post the link to the Poetry Foundation website where it appears. Who knows...maybe the link will draw others to the site and some other wonderful poetry as well.

But take the trouble to click the link and read the poem. Its power is incredible.

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/181536

[LiberalAndProud]

1. Oh my. That last sentence ...

[nolabear]

2. Hope she gets it. Too much for those little shoulders.

[Tsiyu]

3. I read poetry in Orr's prose

He does nail it.

[Tsiyu]

8. Hits the guts of it

without flinching.

It's a gift he has to express how the mind makes sense of such a surreal, excruciating event.

Thanks for sharing, nolabear, and a Happy Labor Day weekend to you.

[nolabear]

11. You're welcome. And back atcha. Enjoy the summer's end.

[pnwmom]

14. It's a beautiful poem -- but it's protected by copyright rules.

I don't think the whole thing is supposed to be copied here.

This is for the benefit of the writer. It's hard enough to sell books of poetry as it is.

[nolabear]

19. You're talking to a poet. I doubt he'd object.

I took it from a poetry website that typically publishes pieces with permission and attribution. As long as I attribute it, and show where it was published, it's as much publicity as anything. The convention is that if you do that, it's not frowned on.

Is recommend his other work, btw, if you don't know it already.

[pnwmom]

21. You didn't link to the poetry website. How come?

How do we know that the website has permission to post his whole poem? I wouldn't assume that. I know, for example, that writers are very limited as to what they can use from a song -- even with attribution. Why aren't they restricted from posting someone else's whole poem?

It turns out that the poet himself has written on this subject -- and didn't come up with a clear cut answer.

"When quoting verse, one must be terse"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/opinion/when-quoting-verse-one-must-be-terse.html?_r=0

American poetry criticism faces a major problem, one that has nothing to do with poetry, or readers, or anything remotely literary. The problem is that a critic who wants to quote a poem in a book has to face a permissions regime that ranges from unpredictable to plain crazy, as I discovered while working on a guidebook to modern poetry for general readers. The permissions took months to compile, and the initial estimate was nearly $20,000.

The difficulty is not so much that the copyright system is restrictive (although it can be), but that no one has any idea exactly how much of a poem can be quoted without payment. Under the “fair use” doctrine, quotation is permitted for criticism and comment, so you’d think this is where a poetry critic could hang his hat. But how much use is fair use?

If you ask publishers, the answer varies — a lot. Some think a quarter of a short poem is appropriate, some think almost an entire poem can be acceptable in the right circumstances, and many others believe you should quote only three or four lines. If you want to play it safe — and that’s what your own publisher will most likely prefer — then you’ll find yourself adhering to the three- or four-line standard.

But that standard doesn’t make much sense. Poems, like excuses, come in all shapes and sizes. They range from single lines to book length. And individual lines range from one word to whatever will fit on the page. Consequently, three or four lines can be 3 words or 70. And what about poems that aren’t lineated at all? Or visual poems? George Herbert’s “Easter Wings” is famously shaped like a pair of wings — if Herbert were alive today, could we quote a feather?

SNIP

[nolabear]

23. Different Orr. Your point is well taken but I still maintain

That this, not being for profit or in any way impinging on his income except possibly to enhance it, does no harm. I guess it's possible someone would copy it here instead of buying his book but it's no different from people posting songs on YouTube.

I paid for rights to use song lyrics in a novel and absolutely agree on that but this?

[pnwmom]

26. DU was sued for copyright infringement some years ago, but won the case

in part because it tries to abide by fair use.

It would be hard for DU to argue that publishing an entire long poem constituted fair use.

So how come you didn't just post the beginning, with a link to the website where you found it?

[nolabear]

28. Done.

Who knows, maybe clicking on the link will lead people to the Poetry Foundation site and they'll discover more.

[lapfog_1]

5. I still remember the screams

When I was 12, my best friend and another boy I knew invited me to go hunting with them. My father said "no" as there would be no adults with us. I didn't go. While walking single file in a ditch, the other boy tripped... his shotgun went off (no safety set) and shot my best friend in the head, killing him instantly.

I still remember my friend's mother screaming at the funeral.

That was over 40 years ago now... and every time I read a story like this recent one, all I can think of is his mother screaming.

[nolabear]

12. Oh, I'm so sorry. What a terrible thing for you all.

I know kids hunt and though it makes me uncomfortable I won't take that up. I'm just very, very sorry.

[aikoaiko]

6. Thank you. That was very moving.

[JaneyVee]

7. Wow. Vivid and horrifying.

[littlemissmartypants]

9. Kicking. Thank you. nt

[jwirr]

10. This is what I have alway thought when I read an article concerning a child who accidentally or even

willfully kills someone. They are so young and there emotional system is not yet fully developed. And now they must deal with a terrible truth. Unlike on cartoons the one they shot is not going to wake up and come back to play again. I suspect this would leave a blemish on their souls for the rest of their lives.

[nolabear]

13. Yes. I heard today that the man's family is supporting her.

Though I hate the circumstances, hate that she was put in that situation and hate that he did what he did, now that those are all facts I'm very glad the family is letting her know they feel terrible about what she's going through.

[BrotherIvan]

25. That is beautiful

Grief is so horrible, it can knock the wind out of you. To find love and compassion in the midst of it is awe inspiring.

[pleinair]

15. Thanks for this thread, nolabear

It's a very enlightening article

[Jerry442]

16. No one has the power to make this all better, but...

...I can't help but that think if the parents refuse to deal with their own culpability here that that won't make matters even worse.

[lunasun]

17. Reminded me of Deadeye Dick the novel by Kurt Vonnegut published in 1982. Fiction but

Plot summaryEdit

The novel's main character, Rudy Waltz, nicknamed Deadeye Dick,[1] commits accidental manslaughter as a child (he kills a pregnant woman who was vacuuming) and lives his whole life feeling guilty and seeking forgiveness for it. He was so traumatized by the events directly after the woman's death that he lives life as an asexual "neuter," neither homosexual nor heterosexual. He tells the story of his life as a middle-aged man expatriate in Haiti, which symbolizes New York City, until the end, when the stream of time of the story catches up with him. At this point, he confronts an event that has been suggested and referred to throughout the novel. The generic Midwestern town of Midland City, Ohio (also the setting of Breakfast of Champions) in which Rudy was raised is virtually destroyed by a neutron bomb. At the ending of the book, it appears that Rudy, while he may not have fully come to terms with his actions, has at least come to live with them. In addition, the ending is where Vonnegut provides his most direct commentary on society, although there are hints here and there throughout the novel.

[nolabear]

20. I've read a lot of Vonnegut but not that. Thanks!

[fishwax]

18. good read--compelling and thought provoking

[LisaL]

22. It's got to be a lot harder to live after killing a sibling than a stranger

this girl only met for a very short time.

[nolabear]

24. No kidding. But the empathy for a child's pain is valuable.

Thank goodness not too many can claim that.

[Heidi]

27. Kick, kick, kick!!!