Cindy Sheehan

[Kaleva]

Last edited Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Seems like long ago now that she was in the news much of the time. Every once in awhile now I do a search to see what she's been up to. Cindy still makes appearances every so often and has a weekly radio show. Just went to her website about her radio show and saw that the discussion board has been shut down for lack of support.

http://cindysheehanssoapbox.com/

To me, Cindy is a very interesting person because of her almost overnight rise to fame followed by a slow drift to virtual oblivion. While I give her great credit for putting so much into a cause she believes in, I also think she was and is her own worst enemy. Allies distanced themselves from her and potential allies stayed away altogether.

I followed what was going on in the early days of Camp Casey with enthusiasm. Not so much what Cindy was saying to the media but the daily reports from people like Buddy and Annie Spell and a couple of others whose names I've sadly forgotten. The pleas for coffee and tarps. The "Food Not Bombs" people asking is anyone could spare a battery for their bus. Things were tough but spirits were high. When the camp was moved to Camp Casey II, the movement began to lose something. The catering service from Dallas providing hot meals (Edit: I may be and probably am wrong about a catering service being at Camp Casey II). The accusations that the Crawford Peace House was spending the donations they received on questionable purchases.
Then there was the disaster of Camp Casey III in N.O. after Katrina. The bigtime fallout between the Spells and VFP. Threats of lawsuits. Friendships made at or just before Camp Casey I were broken.

Edit: As far as I know, the Spells have pretty much dropped out of the peace movement. Ward Reilly, who had some conflict with the Spells after Katrina hit, is still active. I'm still trying to recall the names of two to three others who were boots on the ground at the beginning of Camp Casey.

[Luminous Animal]

1. I continue to follow what she is up to...

She was savagely attacked by liberals but she has maintained respect and contact with many lefties. She slowed things down because she didn't know how to deal with the attacks of "attention whore" from liberals. A handful of people can rise above the hate of their supposed allies and sustain greatness, most cannot. But she is still out there fighting the good fight.

[MuseRider]

2. Hot meals shipped in from Dallas in Casey II?

That must have been after I was there. I spent 3 days in the kitchen area and running out to buy supplies.

It was big and busy when I was there both times in both Casey I and Casey II. Both places were full of action. Sad to hear it did not remain that way.

[Kaleva]

3. I'm relying on memory here and if I'm wrong about anything, I'll gladly admit it.

Doing some searches now about the catering service.

[MuseRider]

15. You don't need to do that,

it probably happened much later after I was gone. I was not there that long! I was just surprised to hear that. That kitchen work under the hot tent was not fun!

[Kaleva]

18. Well, I try to be accurate.

I did alot of searching last night and couldn't find anything to support my comment. I did find numerous stories about dedicated people like you who worked in the kitchen under very harsh conditions.

I envy and respect people like you who were there. I may not always agree with the purpose but I tip my hat to those who did go out and put action behind their words.

[MuseRider]

45. Don't worry about it it is all good.

We accomplished some important things. It did matter, Cindy did matter.

I still have a sticker on the back of my truck that says Talk To Cindy, nobody has a clue what it means anymore and when they ask me it gives me another chance to talk about it.

I respect anyone who does work for what they believe, even if it is for something I totally disagree with. Putting in the time is what makes a movement and makes a productive citizen. No matter how small or large, the movement makes a difference.

I was there with Proud the first time and DancingBear if you remember him. We did trash duty at Casey I because I had my big pick up truck there.

I was at Casey II a few weeks later with DancingBear and my husband and his wife. Met several DUers there and that was when I worked the kitchen, my husband and DB I think did clean up. Everyone had a job to keep it going. It was a true communal event.

EDIT to add that I was there with Proud2BlibKansan and we met uppityperson there and several others who are gone now

[shimonitanegi]

4. She was a great anti-war heroine.

We need more like her.
Warmongers are beating the drums for a war against Syria & Iran.

[abolugi]

5. She was in my hometown

just last year. Still very well respected in the Peace community! We were very proud to have her!

http://sierrafoothillsreport.com/2011/02/17/peace-activist-cindy-sheehan-coming-to-county-on-march-19-%E2%80%94-rally-starts-at-the-union/

[Suich]

6. I thought I sent some money to a pizza place to

have food delivered to Camp Casey...

[Drubinson]

7. The real reason Cindy was attacked

The reason Cindy was so viciously attacked by "The Liberals" and the so-called progressives and left wing, was simple: she saw Obama for who he was, right away, and said so. She spoke out clearly and early about the true nature of Obama, his candidacy, and the Democratic party- as corporate whores, war supporters, and enemies of common people everywhere. She warned about the destruction of the resistance movement by its addiction its self-delusional "hope" and abandonment of personal responsibility and action under Obamafication. So all who sniffed and snorted and shot up the Obamium hated her, and the big-time democrats wanted her silenced and gone.
Her financial support dried up, since Obama was now King, and we were all safe. Scarcely could she have known that the abandonment of hope was coming, and on the carcass of the deservedly dead "old" protest movement, would rise the new, vibrant and deeply grass -roots Occupy movement. The same bastards are trying to co-opt Occupy, and if they don't succeed (which means turn it into a wing of Obama for President), will try to destroy it as they did Cindy.

[arthritisR_US]

10. Clearly you hate President Obama, have

complete disdain for the Democratic party and view "The Liberals" and "so called progressives" as little more than tools at the behest of those in power, so why come on this site to post? Your insults do nothing to advance discourse

[Luminous Animal]

12. Are you anti-war? Where do you stand on drone attacks in Pakistan...

and Yemen? We've never declared war on either one of them but we continue to bomb their citizens and many of those citizens are innocents. My daughter has lived 90% of her entire life as a U.S. citizen that has bombed the crap out of countries that are outgunned a million to one. And there is no such thing as the Marshall Plan any more... to rebuild that we destroyed. Nope, it is corporate servitude. Viet Nam is crap, Korea is crap, Haiti is crap, Nicaragua is crap.

[saras]

11. Rude and ugly, but three quarters true. It appeared to me more the DLC than left wing, though

[Zalatix]

14. Looks to me like Cindy Sheehan is morally consistent more than anything else

She doesn't care what President is in office, her concern is what's being done rather than who's doing it.

I'm with her on this except I'm not sitting out the election or voting Republican. We need to get the GOP out so that we CAN stop the MIC.

[stevenleser]

30. If I pick up a rock and a tennis ball and call them both 'rocks' I am being consistent.But I'm wrong

Equating Iraq,Afghanistan,Yemen,World War II, Grenada, Libya and Yemen and calling them all unjustified wars for oil is consistent. But it is also wrong.

[Zalatix]

33. Drones killing unarmed people without any semblance of due process is wrong.

Sheehan is protesting that, no matter which administration is doing it.

[stevenleser]

34. When you frame the argument in a dishonest way, you get incorrect results.

Here is the right way to frame the discussion of the drones:

1. Is the reason we are there legitimate?
I would answer Yes, I assume you would answer No.

1a. Are there legitimate reasons to disagree if you answered 'No' to #1?
I think the answer to that is Yes.

2. Is the weapons system we are using legal?
I would say Yes, you would say no.

2a. If you answered 'No' to #2, would a minor adjustment to the way the weapons system is being used make it legal?
The answer to that question is 'Yes'

3. Is a legitimate military objective the target of the weapons system?
The answer is Yes.

4. Are civilians also being killed in the targeting of that objective.
The answer is Yes.

5. Has the UN ruled that civilians dying as part of a military action on a legitimate military target is not a war crime?
The answer is Yes, let me know if you need citiations.

6. Is it true that civilians always die in war?
The answer is Yes.

So, now we have a complete framing of the issue, not a sensational red herring.

[Zalatix]

35. I framed it quite honestly, and quite flawlessly, thank you.

1) Was there a trial before we sent out the drones?

2) Was there any evidence put before a jury before we put this person to death?

If the answer to either is no, then you have a summary execution without due process.

Your turn. Show where I made a factual error. Okthxbye!

[stevenleser]

36. No, you didnt

Is there an ongoing military conflict in the area we are discussing?
- Yes

In a military conflict, do you need a jury to attack or kill the enemy?
- No

[Zalatix]

37. Wrong again. You failed on both counts.

There's no official military conflict there, and even if there is, the use of drones to kill unarmed civilians is NOT legal. Or acceptable.

Since you're still hell bent upon arguing this, let's just kill your next argument ahead of time:

Going by your reasoning we could just pick any random person we don't like, declare them a terrorist, and kill them.


So not only are we illegally killing unarmed civilians but America is just making up arbitrary lists of people they don't like and are killing them without a trial.

Next?

[stevenleser]

54. I'm happy to stand on previous posts

I take into account all facts, when judging whether a military action is justified. I dont ignore or mischaracterize facts I dont like.

That is my record, that is how I have debated with you. You cannot say the same.

[Zalatix]

55. Oh, you think far too highly of your debating skills.

What facts have you presented? None.

The facts are:
1) We're illegally killing civilians.
2) We're illegally killing unarmed civilians.
3) There is no declared war where this killing is happening.
4) We are killing arbitrarily.
5) We have no evidence that has been presented to a jury.
6) And no trial, either.

None of these facts are in dispute.

[SomethingFishy]

51. You write this and then a few posts down you have the unmitigated gall

to call yourself anti-war? I call bullshit. Reading your posts in here it certainly sounds like you are all about killing some muslims because we have a "legitimate" reason for doing so. Then you claim you are anti-war and with all the hubris of a Republican you tell everyone what "consistency" means.

Fucking laughable.

[stevenleser]

53. Yup, I do. Thankfully, you dont get to define what anti-war means.

It does not mean batshit crazy. It does not mean being against World War II. It does not mean ignoring facts.

[Zalatix]

58. What facts?! You have presented none.

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. Pres. Obama has a following, Cindy doesn't. It happens.

[snooper2]

19. Maybe she can RISE UP and be one of the occupy leaders

Right?

Maybe she can be a figure to some of the hoodlums and show the proper way to protest!

[stevenleser]

21. Nope. The real reason is she shares a problem with a small percentage of the anti-war crowd

To that small percentage, every war is the same and they try to place them in the same neat little box.

Everyone who is anti-war, and I am including myself here, agrees that war is to be avoided and that it indicates a failure of some sort on one or both parties.

Where Sheehan and those who agree with her fail, in my opinion, is that they are so desperate to characterize every war as 'bad' they systematically ignore any argument that contradicts them. We all (at least 99.999999%) here on DU agree that 'W's war in Iraq was unjustified and illegal and was likely about oil or other hidden agendas. We do not all agree on Afghanistan because there are legitimate arguments for why we went there. You can disagree with those arguments, but dismissing and refusing to acknowledge that other people can legitimately believe them detracts from your own credibility.

The same anti-war crowd to which Cindy belongs has recently been trying to suggest that World War II was also an illegitimate war (I am saying from the point of view of the US and the allies). It does not help the cause of being anti-war to push your position to the point of the ludicrous and bizarre.

I also thinks the focus on drones is a credibility destroying behavior. Either a war is legitimate or isnt. Focusing on a weapons system that is being used in that war that is perfectly legal (the only question of legality is who is providing the targets, something easily remedied if necessary), and in fact produces less collateral damage than other options results in a loss of credibility. Again, you have to understand a little about the military to know that the missiles the drones use are less powerful than the missiles a fighter jet would use and would produce fewer casualties than a ground assault, but people who know those things (like me) look at people who raise the drone issue and immediately know that, like anyone else who shouts at the top of their lungs without really knowing what they are talking about, they are not to be taken seriously.

To me, the way elements in the anti-war crowd approach the issue in the last 5 years resembles the way zealots approach religion.

So, yes, because of her approach and those like her, they are able to place Obama in the same box (or worse) than George W. Bush in terms of being pro-war. Of course, since FDR brought us into World War II (in recent books and articles by this group, he is responsible for us being in WWII), FDR is just as bad as George W. Bush too by their estimation. So WWII=Iraq=Vietnam=Afghanistan. All the same to this group. And that is how an anti-war heroine launches herself into obscurity.

[arthritisR_US]

22. +100! TY for putting to words what I couldn't.

[stevenleser]

24. Thank you. The sad thing is that a good credible anti-war activist group is sorely needed.

If we had one that approached these issues in a level-headed way, we might get somewhere.

[arthritisR_US]

40. They sure are needed! They start out fine and

then their damn egos get in the way.

[Bandit]

25. FDR did not bring us into WW II.

He happened to be President when the Japanese bombed our fleet at Pearl Harbor and THAT is what brought us into WW II. I can not in any way compare 9-11 to Pearl Harbor. One was an act of a few criminals that killed a massive amount of people and the other was an act of War...All wars are indeed BAD but some are unavoidable.. Vietnam, Korea Grenada, Panama, Iraq I, Iraq II, Afghanistan, Pakistan.. All were unnecessary wars that could easily have been avoided...It sure seems easy to criticize a mother that lost her only son to a War of Choice, and not necessity, by many that have never experienced anything they didn't see on the TV machine...

[stevenleser]

29. Yet, WWII is something that this crowd argues. Just check out Swanson's latest book "War is a Lie"

He equates the Civil War, World War II, both Iraq wars, Afghanistan, etc. They are all bad wars based on lies.

Please spare me the criticizing a mother... stuff. If you put yourself out there in politics advocating for positions, people have a right to analyze and criticize those positions.

You also understand that our participation in Korea was under the UN Banner authorized by a vote in the UN Security Council, right?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. Actually, the European part of World War II grew directly out of resentments engendered

by the aftermath of World War I, which grew out of unfinished business from the Franco-Prussian War.

[SidDithers]

28. Byeeeee...

Sid

[arthritisR_US]

39. Finally! I literally went out of my way hours

ago to comment on this (something I have NEVER done), only to have it thrown in my face. I thought the points could have been made without the insults and disrespect to your president. Why post here when one has such a negative view of a large segment of the posting population?

[OKDem08]

8. The last I read about her is that the IRS is going after her for tax evasion.

She is deliberately not filing taxes on moral grounds. She refuses to fund the war machine.

[Luminous Animal]

13. I wish I was brave enough to do that!

[snooper2]

20. Read some websites and maybe you will get the courage you seek!

start, here-

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/04/16/greenslade.htm

[EFerrari]

9. Cindy is great. I met her at BeachImpeach.

Her job is to irritate people, not to court them.

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. "I also think she was and is her own worst enemy."

Cindy worked hard to alienate Democrats. She's a Naderite, and most of the "allies" who distanced themselves from her, did so for the same reasons they've distanced themselves from folks like Nader. Radio hosts don't even mention her name anymore. I would never have thought of her again, if you hadn't made this post. She went from a peace activist to irrelevance practically overnight.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. She is not a Naderite

You obviously don't know her. I do. That's an unfounded label.

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. She's a former Republican, right?

[ieoeja]

47. From the Teabagger contingent which is why Dems/Libs left her years before Obama presidency.

Those claiming she was abandoned because she is anti-Obama are way off as we abandoned her long before Obama's presidency. If I recall correctly, we wrote off her loony ass even before W's 2nd term. And I think I recognize some of the posters making that claim as having been around here way back then which would mean they are now lying their fucking asses off.

And abandoning her had nothing whatsoever to do with war. It was because she started spouting off wacko Rightist conspiracy theories about the federal income tax being unconstitutional, etc. She isn't far Right. She is wacko Right.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Ding! Ding! Ding!

I'm gonna assume she's of the Ron & Rand Paul strain of teanuttery. "Isolationist"; "Non-interventionist", "gold standard", "states' rights", "abolish the Fed/IRS" teanuttery. I knew I remembered having read somewhere, probably here, that she was, or had been, a Republican up until her son was killed in action.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Cindy Sheehan is the reason America finally woke up to the horror of the Iraq war.

For two reasons.

1. She was brave enough to do what she did in Crawford. I was there, and it took no small amount of courage for her to do what she did. On three separate occasions, the Secret Service and the local police did high-speed night-time runs through the encampment, and if you don't think that was meant to intimidate, well, you weren't there.

2. A large contingent of the mainstream DC political press were stuck in Crawford with Bush at that time, because there always has to be press wherever the president is. They didn't have jack shit to report on down there except mud and fire ants, so their attention turned to Cindy and her action. Almost overnight, those bored national reporters turned her into a household name, and in doing so, put a face filled with anguish on a war that had, to that point, been little more than a TV show to most Americans.

August 2005 is when the worm turned on the Iraq occupation, and all our marches and protests and letters to the editor didn't do as much as that one woman and her decision to demand an explanation for the death of her son.

Whatever has happened to her activism in the intervening years - and I do not disagree with the contention that her activism went off the rails at some point - she will stand forever in my mind as one of the most important people in the fight against Bush and his splendid little war.

Cindy Sheehan is a hero. Period, end of file.

[stevenleser]

26. I agree. The only minor bone of contention is...

there was a groundswell building against the Iraq war even before the 2004 election. Bush barely pulled together an effort to essentially tie Kerry in that election and that was after the swiftboat smears. The public was already sick of the war. If the election had been held 3-6 months later, Bush was already unelectable.

Cindy certainly took that and put the face of a mother of a soldier killed in that illegal, unjustified war and refocused everyone as to the horrible effects of that war, but I think all of us who marched and fought against it also deserve a lot of the credit.

[WilliamPitt]

27. I don't disagree

But you can't overstate the impact of having 40 bored reporters putting her on national television every day for 30 days because they had nothing better to do. Our huge marches got a day's press, and the numbers were inevitably low-balled. She was a constant presence, and that ultimately had an enormous impact.

[xiamiam]

32. yes but Cindy brought it to nightly news while the media did not report those of us who marched

against the war in the hundreds of thousands
the tide began to turn when Cindy went to camp on the side of the road in Crawford
Katrina happened on the heels of that and in my mind they were both two forces of nature

Lots of money and effort to dismiss Cindy Sheehan but in my mind she is a heroic figure who changed the dialogue..unfortunately, many of those against the war under an R president have decided its not so important under a D president. Cindy is not one of them and neither am I. She deserves a place of honor from all of us.

[sabrina 1]

68. We were ignored by the MSM. I asked a friend recently if they remembered the huge

anti war protests during the Bush years, and she had no idea what I was talking about.

Cindy Sheehan got the publicity only a mother who was speaking out against the war could get. Sorry, but half the country supported that war and Bush used it to get reelected. A huge segment of the population still does.

What she achieved, and how thrilling it was at the time after several years of being unable to get the media to cover anti-war protests, to finally see the media covering HER, was to shine a light on the lies we were told. No anti-war protest was able to achieve that. She was a perfect icon, a mother who had lost her son in Bush's war, people listened as this was new. Up til then, people just assumed that those who lost loved ones in Iraq, loved Bush.

She was untouchable in a way, partly, ironically, due to the war propaganda itself. And she used it so effectively. Bush ran from Texas rather than face her to explain to her what her son had died for. And that was covered by the media also.

Cindy wiped the smirk off Bush's face, she made him run an hide and the country got to see a different side of him.

She continues to fight for peace, while a large majority of the former anti-war crowd have caved and even excuse the multiple wars we are now engaged in, since their party is in power. Silence from the left and worse, condemnation for those they used, it seems now, only for political purposes. We are all learning about this political process and it's pretty disappointing. I see comments here on DU that I used to see only on rightwing boards. Making everything she and OWS says, to be correct.

[cali]

38. I don't think she woke the masses to the horrors of the Iraq War

but I do agree with your second to the last paragraph. She was an important factor in the fight against the war in Iraq and bush- in almost "the Emperor has no clothes" kind of way. And for that she deserves credit.

I do not, however, see her as a hero.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. She gave up what was left of her life

to stand for a cause.

I find that incredibly heroic.

[sabrina 1]

66. 'Cindy Sheehan is a hero'

Yes she is. She turned the country around on the Bush administration. It's amazing to see people here on this board which was so supportive of her and others who dared to speak out during those times when it was not as easy as it is now, looking for reasons to diminish what she achieved.

She will be remembered as the woman who never got an answer to her question about the war her son died in. What was the 'noble cause' he died for? And why would anyone who opposed the Iraq War, as I see some here claiming they did, support the multiple extensions of that illegal war into Yemen, Pakistan, and wherever else we are?

Cindy Sheehan stood up when others were too afraid to do so. How easy it is to sit behind a computer and criticize a mother who did so much to awaken this country and who was the ONLY person who made Bush look like the coward he was and exposed him to the world finally as the phony he was.



‘‘I don't want him to use my son's name or my family name to justify any more killing,'' she said.

[WilliamPitt]

69. Goddam right

[uppityperson]

31. Pat Tate was a vfp guy, though thinking white rose bus? Or some such.

Dennis Kyne also vfp

[Typical NYC Lib]

43. Rec

[Typical NYC Lib]

50. view all

[broiles]

46. A lot of us are still active.

There's a Facebook page were Camp Caseyers still keep up with each other. Several went to Madison to protest Walker. Some went to Ft. Leavenworth to support Bradley Manning and a group was in D.C. last week. Cindy spoke in San Antonio just last weekend.

[H2O Man]

48. Cindy is a nice lady.

I've had the opportunity to talk with her quite a bit recently. I think very highly of her.

[Cleita]

52. I love Cindy because she made GWB squirm.

Also, her name Sheehan in Irish means peace. I don't go all the way with her ideology, but I admire her for her gutsiness. She will be remembered in history as the bereaved mother who stood up to the oil/military giants and told them where to put their 'noble cause' and lies about war.

[Odin2005]

56. She drifted over into Tea-bag Libertarian wacko-land a while ago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. She is definitely not a teabagger or a libertarian

Good grief. Why is DU so fond of beating up on Cindy?

[Odin2005]

59. Did you forget about her anti-tax nonsense???

It's mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

[EFerrari]

61. Withholding tax payments to protest has a long tradition in this country.

It's not anti-tax, it's anti bad policy, like war.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

64. I just remembered--Henry David Thoreau refused to pay taxes because of his opposition

to the Mexican War ....in the 1840s. He actually went to jail for it until a relative of his paid up, against his wishes.

[EFerrari]

65. Yes. And in the 60s, didn't Joan Baez withhold her payments for a time?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. This month's issue of Harper's has an article about forgetting American history

Very timely.

There have been people who refuses\d to pay their income tax on the grounds of opposition to war since at least the Vietnam days.

I knew people in the 1980s who were trying to figure out ways to do it legally, by living off the land and having so little cash income that they didn't have to pay income taxes.

Various people have gone to prison over the years for anti-war tax evasion, many of them Quakers and Mennonites.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. There's also a way you can put the money in a special account, isn't there?

So you pay the taxes but the federal government doesn't have access to your money.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. That doesn't make her a teabagger or a libertarian.

She's anti-tax because she feels like she has paid enough to the federal government. I agree with her. If I had lost my son in that fucking illegal war, I wouldn't want to pay taxes either. Lots of peace activists are tax resisters. That doesn't make them teabaggers or libertarians.

[WilliamPitt]

70. Nonsense?

She chose not to foot the bill for the illegal war that killed her son.

Tea-bagger?

Fucking hardly, Odin.