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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStay Calm and Carry On: Why it’s nearly impossible for Ebola to spread in the US
Well, it finally happened: The US just got its first case of Ebola. Health officials have confirmed that a man recently admitted to a Dallas hospital has come down with the deadly virus, which has already killed more than 3,000 people in West Africa. The patient was admitted based on both symptoms and travel historypresumably he had been in West Africaand is now being held in strict isolation, say officials.
Below are excerpts from an earlier Quartz piece on a New York patient suspected of carrying the Ebola virus that explore why Americans would do well not to panic:
If your Twitter feed is anything like mine, news that Ebola might have turned up in Manhattan is freaking out a lot of Americans. Helpful bits of commentary include as that its deadly uncurable, has a 90% fatality rate, and causes a hemorrhagic fever that eventually leads to a complete bleed-out. Todays news merely amplifies the anxiety thats been building since word got out that two Americans infected with Ebola have been moved to US hospitals for treatment.
There are plenty of people who should be protecting themselves against Ebolas spreadand they live in West Africa. Those of us who are in the US should feel comforted by the following:- Ebolas not airborne. It can only be spread through bodily fluids. The virus spreads when blood, semen, urine, vomit, feces, or other bodily fluids of an infected person come into contact with someone elses mucus membranes.
- And its not just any infected personits a symptomatic infected person. People can only catch ebola from someone actually exhibiting symptoms. Those include vomiting, diarrhea, and, in some cases, hemorrhaging of mucus membranes, such as nose, nail beds and eyesin other words, pretty hard to miss.
More: http://qz.com/273972/stay-calm-and-carry-on-why-its-nearly-impossible-for-ebola-to-spread-in-the-us/
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)getting drowsy........
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)High visibility for when you pass out.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)we touch, juuuuust in case.
Sparhawk60
(359 posts)I know the mix ammonia and bleach poster was being sarcastic.....but just in case some one is thinking it may be a good idea:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicchemicals/a/Mixing-Bleach-And-Ammonia.htm.
/TL;DR version, it will kill you.
// this has been a public service announcement
/// Paid for by the slashie foundation of America
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I'm guessing there might actually be people who don't know that or know what happens if you mix those. Good PSA. Thanks.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,587 posts)Thanks for posting it.
K&R
Turborama
(22,109 posts)Glad you found it interesting and were amused.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)No disrespect, of course, to death by starvation. Or cancer. Or measles.
Part of the horror of Ebola is that it shatters the idea of a "good death". You can't deny mortality when death is on display in this way: bodies disintegrating, the sounds and smells of hot, sick blood and feces and bile erupting and oozing from a not-yet corpse. There will be no one to cradle the deceased, no comments about how they "look so peaceful", like they're "just sleeping". There will not be a burial; there will be a disposal.
=snip=
Perhaps our obsession with the horrors of Ebola says more about us than anything else. That it kills so rarely, and, for many of us, so far away makes it more nightmarish to contemplate. Absolutely horrific, sure, and yet, could you really argue that stage IV metastatic cancer is any less gruesome? Fearing Ebola is morbid escapism, a way to flirt with the inevitability of our own demise, to ponder the frailty of our own ineffectual meat sacks. Ebola is our macabre fantasy not because it's likely, but because it isn't. To many in the West, Ebola matters not because of what it does and how it kills; it matters because of what it represents.
Full article: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/ebola-epidemic-plagued-by-fear-9636462.html
freshwest
(53,661 posts)ancianita
(36,023 posts)Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)I would like to read this article. That was a good, but scarey film.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)The link is there
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)I skimmed through the OP because I had to get to bed, but read back through it today and found more info here if your interested:
http://time.com/3079518/ebola-outbreak-pandemic-fear/?_ga=1.232261020.2008613969.1412555420
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)but unless we quarantine Africa, it's going to spread to the Western world. But we're not psychologically able to take the measures that people used to in the past to stop the spread of contagious diseases.
Chances are, it's going to come to NYC, and will make its way through some of the population here. Oh, eventually, they'll shut the barn door, but only after the horse has left.
Bonx
(2,053 posts)They're a lot worse.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)You do realize that only a very small portion of Africa is affected by this outbreak.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)we can loosen things up. But I wouldn't do that until after the election.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Or do you mean no flights from anywhere in Africa to the usa?
Why not just say no one can come in to the usa until the outbreak is over since people can travel from, say, Egypt to Canada and to the usa?
Do you know how large that continent is? Do you know the small amount of that huge continent that is having ebola outbreaks?
Do you understand how ebola is transmitted, or the issues the affected countries are having with isolating and treating those who have it or have been exposed?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)First it was reported that it in Africa and no chance of making it to the United States.
It made it to the United States but don't worry as no one will have it.
We have it but don't worry because the chances of getting it is impossible to get.
Ok. Sure. They have been wrong every step of the way so far.
I guess Good Luck will be heard in our not to distant future.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)If just ranting, have fun. But I had hoped a reply would address at least a tiny part of what I posted.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I posted to you because you seem very dismissive on the dangers of this being in the US.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)The only thing that concerns me is, putting on my tinfoil cap, is someone getting a large amount of blood from that person and injecting others. Or like has happened in Africa, hiding sick people at home and infecting the household.
Being passed by a sneeze, or on the handle of my shopping cart? Of that I am dismissive. Those who have died in Africa distrust doctors, hospitals, keep their sick at hime, caring for the without any sort of even gloves, until they die and the caregivers are i fected and sick. Repeat, repeat, repeat. It is not spreading through casual contact of the sort feared but close contact with infectd bodlly fluids.
And yes, I have worked plenty of isolation rooms during my nursing career, including putting a person in isolation outside protocol after a middle of the ght admission with weird symptoms. Active TB was diagnosed the next day and rather than being inteluble, I had the thanks of my hospital administration.
I am also dismissive of someone claiming to be a doctor who is clueless about hazmat suits having SCBA or even face masks but advises using condoms and avoiding large cities.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)and other 'experts' say is at an all time low. It may be neccessary to have somewhat of an overreaction in the next five weeks to get through the election.
I'm really worrried about the news media turning this thing into the October surprise. Look what they managed to do with a few beheadings of people who wandered into harm's way.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)The GOP and conspiracy loons like Alex Jones have been pretty successful in turning lots of people against science.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,306 posts)around experts. And 'scare' has never been more appropriate than in your case - you are trying desperately to make everyone else as scared as you seem to be.
Get a grip. Stop talking like someone who expects the Rapture any moment. And remember that 'government' is a positive word on DU, and in civilised society in general.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)And I work in a job where I have contact with people who may well have come here from Africa. What I worry about is the optics of this situation, in a nation that reacts badly before it acts intelligently.
We've got five weeks before the election, and a news media that lives by "if it bleeds, it leads". I'm not worried a bit about the folks who are paying attention, I will admit that I'm a bit freaked out about the people who are so incredibly clueless that they are swing voters, and make up their minds about who to vote for based solely upon which party scares them the least. I wish they just didn't vote, but the very fact that our elections go one way or the other every few years means that they are excercising a franchise that they don't truly understand, and our nation hangs in the balance.
I'm sorry that my use of punctuation marks to try to describe their irrational feelings offends you, but they are meant to convey the ignorance of the folks who decide pretty much every election in this country.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,306 posts)and saying Ebola is going to 'make its way through some of the population' of New York City. And, for some reason, tying it to the elections. You sounds very frightened to me, with that reaction. What do you think the optics of isolating a whole continent are, until the US has had some mid-term elections? I think it screams "oh my gods, we're the only country in the world that counts, and all Africans look the same to us, and our elections are more important than the economy and society of any country in Africa".
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)It's just that the news media is going to whip up hysteria over this, and the soccer moms are going to react to it. I saw a lot of buzz about Ebola yesterday, if any more people turn up infected in this country, it's going to be non-stop from now till Election Day.
Perhaps you think the vast majority of people are going to be rational about this, I don't have such expectations. And I do expect this disease to spread, just like it has done in Africa.
forthemiddle
(1,379 posts)Not panicking yet, but has it been explained on where this guy came in contact with the disease?
If its not "easy" to get, then he must have lied to get in this country? and to airline security?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Airline security does not ban people from traveling from Liberia.
All viruses take time to have the infected person show symptoms. If someone has a cold and sneezes on you, it takes a while for you to show symptoms, right? You don't immediately get a sore throat and start sneezing. Same thing with ebola. There is an incubation period, during which, for ebola, you are not contagious. Meaning people around you will not catch the virus since it is not being excreted by your body.
Once you start showing symptoms, for ebola, then you are putting out the virus in bodily fluids.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)If you have more cases of Ebola in this country, either from new travellers or from this traveller having infected others during the days he was contageous, you'll see hysteria coming from every corner of the three 24/7 news networks. It will eventually bleed over on to the news sites that everybody accesses on their computers and smartphones.
The President needs to take radical steps to reassure irrational people for the next five weeks. Whoever the mushy middle fears the least is who wins their votes.
Logical
(22,457 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)But the potential for the Rethugs to exploit this is enormous. Maybe they'll be clumsy at it, and everyone will see this, but they're masters at vending fear and ignorance.
Response to Turborama (Original post)
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uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Response to uppityperson (Reply #14)
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uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Well, that certainly gives me confidence in your credentials.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)pnwmom
(108,976 posts)Now, researchers from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the country's Public Health Agency have shown that pigs infected with this form of Ebola can pass the disease on to macaques without any direct contact between the species.
In their experiments, the pigs carrying the virus were housed in pens with the monkeys in close proximity but separated by a wire barrier. After eight days, some of the macaques were showing clinical signs typical of ebola and were euthanised.
One possibility is that the monkeys became infected by inhaling large aerosol droplets produced from the respiratory tracts of the pigs.
One of the scientists involved is Dr Gary Kobinger from the National Microbiology Laboratory at the Public Health Agency of Canada. He told BBC News this was the most likely route of the infection.
"What we suspect is happening is large droplets - they can stay in the air, but not long, they don't go far," he explained.
SNIP
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)This blog has a good explanation with diagram. Sorry but I can't copy it as am on slow low memory device.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease
Down a ways, look for (28) which goes to this link, saying not between macaquas or people.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3498927/
Turborama
(22,109 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)y dumb pad has less memory than I do and it maks doing more than typing difficult. The graphic makes it easily seen. Id you haven't posted the link as an op, I'll do so in a couple hours when on regular computer.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)I don't know why some people are so eager to minimize the danger.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)
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yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The parallel is extraordinary. Don't worry folks nothing to see here. Ostrich move on the count of 3. (Head in the ground)
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)..and true airborne transmission. I've never heard any discussion of any Ebola species other than Reston able to do anything approaching airborne transmission.
Fortunately, Ebola Zaire is transmitted by neither.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/airborne-transmission-ebola-unlikely-monkey-study-shows
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)The question is how long they remain in the air. But if someone is sneezed on, they could become infected.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423
Now, researchers from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the country's Public Health Agency have shown that pigs infected with this form of Ebola can pass the disease on to macaques without any direct contact between the species.
In their experiments, the pigs carrying the virus were housed in pens with the monkeys in close proximity but separated by a wire barrier. After eight days, some of the macaques were showing clinical signs typical of ebola and were euthanised.
One possibility is that the monkeys became infected by inhaling large aerosol droplets produced from the respiratory tracts of the pigs.
One of the scientists involved is Dr Gary Kobinger from the National Microbiology Laboratory at the Public Health Agency of Canada. He told BBC News this was the most likely route of the infection.
"What we suspect is happening is large droplets - they can stay in the air, but not long, they don't go far," he explained.
SNIP
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Hint: same guy, two months ago,
As an actual MD, I am fully familiar with the distinction between airborne and droplet transmission.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)The concern is that viruses can mutate.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/12/health/ebola-airborne/
CNN) -- Today, the Ebola virus spreads only through direct contact with bodily fluids, such as blood and vomit. But some of the nation's top infectious disease experts worry that this deadly virus could mutate and be transmitted just by a cough or a sneeze.
"It's the single greatest concern I've ever had in my 40-year public health career," said Dr. Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. "I can't imagine anything in my career -- and this includes HIV -- that would be more devastating to the world than a respiratory transmissible Ebola virus."
Osterholm and other experts couldn't think of another virus that has made the transition from non-airborne to airborne in humans. They say the chances are relatively small that Ebola will make that jump. But as the virus spreads, they warned, the likelihood increases.
Every time a new person gets Ebola, the virus gets another chance to mutate and develop new capabilities. Osterholm calls it "genetic roulette."
SNIP
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)How many vaccines and immune therapies are out there already showing promise for Ebola? How many for HIV?
As fast as Ebola mutates, it is also revealing those sequences it cannot mutate and still function. Look for those in a surface-expressed protein and voila, synthesize some peptides and generate some antibodies.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)we won't do enough to stop the disease in Liberia and other parts of Africa.
Who cares about spending the money needed for research and foreign aid when there are so many other needs right here? That's the attitude many are already taking.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)Response to Texasgal (Reply #16)
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uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Being a doctor and all, wtf? I guess you mmissed the part about self contained hazmat suits, with oxygen tanks, etc, SCBA.
progressoid
(49,978 posts)of the internet!
He has a PhD in keyboarding.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)hazmat suit on, but....??????
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Don't forget the tuna and milk, those are IMPORTANT!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)But yes, you can be infected with respiratory secretions. But airborne would mean it stood in the air suspended for some time.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)As I've said in other ebola threads... Stop making sense, you'll spoil the freak-out fest!
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)viruses evolve.
We don't know how contagious Ebola might be in the future. All we know is now.
And if we don't contain it now, in West Africa and everywhere else, we could be up against a much more virulent virus down the road.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)Yes, viruses evolve.
We don't know how contagious AIDS might be in the future. All we know is now.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)the prognosis.
There is no comparison.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)It's called fluid and correction of coagulopathies.
How many people with HIV survive the disease with no treatment? How many for Ebola? The immune system can defeat Ebola, not so much with HIV.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)It can mutate to become more infectious and it can mutate to become less virulent. It can also mutate in such a way as to make current trial vaccines and treatments ineffective.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)When they kill hosts too efficiently, they burn themselves out, as we've seen with ebola outbreaks in the past. The mutations that are effective over the long run are the ones that enable them to survive longer.
Influenza has a much, much longer history than ebola with its human hosts. When it kills, it is typically the immunocompromised patients that succomb (the well-known exception being the Spanish flu that caused cytokine storms, killing the healthiest and strongest). It already transmits quite easily.
It is the short history with Ebola that makes everything a great unknown.
Of course, the combination of high population concentration and easy, fast international travel also changes everything, for all of us.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)at home, taking care of them without precautions, getting ill ourselves, repeat repeat repeat. My heart breaks for all those affected.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)That's bullshit and a flat out lie. The vomiting and diarrhea come later in the disease, and hemorrhaging is toward the end.
The first symptom is *very* easy to miss, which is why health care workers in the epidemic areas check their temperatures repeatedly from morning until night. You can have a low grade fever and not even be aware of it.
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/symptoms/
"The virus spreads when blood, semen, urine, vomit, feces, or other bodily fluids of an infected person come into contact with someone elses mucus membranes."
Incomplete and misleading. The fluids can also enter through broken skin. Note that at any given time, everybody has tiny scratches and even invisible to the naked eye "microcracks" in their skin.
Health care workers don't just wear gloves to protect patients. They wear gloves to protect themselves. That is why in epidemic areas they are wearing 2 and even 3 layers of gloves, as well as all the biohazard PPEs. To keep any body fluids from contacting any part of their skin.
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html
"It isnt curable, but people survive it. In fact, this outbreak has a 57% mortality ratemuch lower than that oft-cited 90%."
This outbreak does NOT have a 57% mortality rate. WHO is quoted as stating the outbreak is greater than 70%. Again, flat out wrong.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home&&
"That pig study doesnt mean anything."
The pig study suggests that transmission can be by large droplet or fomite. The latter is especially important, if it remains viable on door handles, counters, and other surfaces.
http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/pigs-monkeys-ebola-goes-airborne-112112
"Nearly every hospital in the US is equipped to treat Ebola patients and keep them in isolation."
Tell that to the people who were sitting in the waiting room on 9/26 when the Dallas patient was there. Every hospital does NOT have biohazard suit levels of protection. We do have ordinary PPEs, eg lab coats and gloves. Once we know a patient is at risk, we can add gowns, caps and masks. We don't have leg protection or goggles that I'm aware of. We do NOT have containment units such as the ones that Brantly, Writebol and others have been treated in.
I'm all for not panicking. But spreading misinformation and outright lies is not the way to prevent panic.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Found in all modern EDs. As for leg protection, they're called pants. We do also have disposable booties that extend to the knee.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I watched a nurse run shrieking from a room in our ED when she caught a fainting patient, who proceeded to pee down her legs.
We don't have booties that extend to the knees at my hospital that I'm aware of. Just paper booties that cover your feet for the OR. I'm not aware of face shields at my hospital either. Just regular masks and TB masks. But I work in the lab, so may not be aware of all the equipment in the ED. And I'm in a tiny rural hospital, not a big, new one.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Ours are so paper thin from repeatedly laundry you can basically see through them. I'd trust my pants more.
So here's the deal, 4 days into the illness, this person was probably pretty noticeably ill. Ill enough to get the attention of the triage nurse. This person should not have languished in the ED for long. They should've been taken to a bay pretty quickly. The very first person to interview this individual should have asked about travel. After the word "Liberia" was mentioned, the isolation and call to infectious disease would have been immediate. Identification and isolation of all contacts would begin.
So, really, we're looking at 3-4 at-risk contacts in the hospital if everyone did what they are supposed to do.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and tops only. Regular pants below, and they would saturate in an instant. Since we get a lot of international travelers in this area, I may invest in bottom scrubs too. Even though we don't get many people from Africa, I suppose it's just a matter of time before it's in Europe too.
The patient should have been questioned about travel on his 1st trip to the ED when he was 2 days into symptoms, instead of being given antibiotics and sent home. Or he was questioned and lied.
And knowing where he came from, he should have sought out treatment the minute he had a symptom, any symptom, and he should have told them straight out that he'd been exposed to Ebola.
4 days into symptoms, he was picked up in an ambulance with severe symptoms from what I've read, so wasn't in the waiting room at all. The ambulance personnel have all been quarantined and are being monitored, so they are down 3 ambulance people for 21 days. No mention of the doctors, nurses or other potentially exposed workers.
Somehow it doesn't surprise me that a dozen patients in various cities would be immediately isolated and end up negative, and then the 13th would be sent home with antibiotics and end up positive.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Only then it was removed from circulation. So whoever was transported by the ambulance during these 2 days is presumably at risk as well.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)but yeah, I would not want to have been in that ambulance after.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)about it spreading disease. Which it could have for two days. Whatever disinfection they did after transporting him (or didn't do) obviously wasn't enough for Ebola, or it wouldn't have been removed from circulation after Ebola was confirmed.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)And so their drivers wouldn't be continually hassled about which ambulance they were driving.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Ambulance has a caution tape around it. Seems kind of bizarre if there was no risk from it.
"Chopper 5 showed Dallas Fire-Rescue ambulance 37 parked away from all other vehicles at the training center in the 5000 block of Dolphin Road. The ambulance was wrapped in red caution tape and blocked in."
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/Dallas-Fire-Rescue-Crew-That-Transported-Ebola-Patient-Quarantined-Ambulance-Pulled-From-Service-277675341.html
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Ever hear of the expression, "an abundance of caution"?
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Ebola is destroyed by standard disinfectants, including chlorine bleach.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)If there was no risk, that is?
blogslut
(37,999 posts)Dallas city spokeswoman Sana Syed says the Dallas Fire-Rescue EMS crew was tested Tuesday night and sent home. They have not exhibited any symptoms of the virus.
Syed says the man transported to Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital on Sunday was vomiting when the ambulance arrived.
She says the ambulance crew is among 12 to 18 people health officials are monitoring because they were exposed to the man. Some are members of his family, but not all...
http://austin.twcnews.com/content/305205/ems-crew-exposed-to-ebola-victim-tests-negative/?ap=1&MP4
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)EVERY good history includes a travel history, especially if you're dealing with an infection. That was an inexcusable error. Of course, maybe the patient lied, as you stated.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Since the possibilities seem limited:
1. Either he knew he had contact with sick people in Liberia and still ignored his symptoms for 2 days and then lied about his exposure, or
2. He hadn't knowingly contacted sick people in Liberia, and the patients lied to him about being sick,
3. OR He hadn't knowingly contacted sick people in Liberia, in which case it may be transmitted before patients are symptomatic.
I prefer to believe that he lied. It kind of beats him not being asked about exposure or alternative 3.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Seems counterproductive.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)He wasn't feeling well, he went to the ER for help. The early symptoms are similar to malaria; he may have believed he had malaria and lied to keep from being quarantined.
2 diplomats who knew they were sick broke quarantine. The 1st, Patrick Sawyer, spread it to Nigeria. The 2nd spread it to Lagos, where he was treated in secret by a doctor. The doctor continued socializing even after he had symptoms, spreading it further. A nurse who knew she was exposed broke quarantine.
5 educated people who had should have known better violated quarantines and spread it around.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)malaria is not prevalent in the US.
Hospital is investigating as to why they let him go the first time.
We don't know if he was asked about his travel history, if he told them about his travel history, etc.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)As to the rest, exactly. They are investigating how he came to be released.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)home. He got sicker and went to the hospital on the 28th. At that time he was admitted.
But for at least four days (his symptoms appeared on the 24th), he was infectious and not isolated.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)... and only low risk of transmission in the early phase of symptomatic patients."
The incubation period of Ebola virus disease (EVD) varies from 2 to 21 days. Person-to-person transmission by means of direct contact with infected persons or their body fluids/secretions is considered the principal mode of transmission. In a household study, secondary transmission took place only if direct physical contact occurred. No transmission was reported without this direct contact. Airborne transmission has not been documented during previous EVD outbreaks."
The post incubation symptoms "include vomiting, diarrhea, and, in some cases, hemorrhaging of mucus membranes, such as nose, nail beds and eyesin other words, pretty hard to miss."
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)What I said is that the 1st symptom is a low fever, which is easily missed. You are considered symptomatic with a fever of 101.5 F per the CDC. That is why, for example, Dr. Brantly immediately isolated himself when he developed a fever.
But nice try at rewriting my post and countering CDC information with the same incomplete information provided by Qz, whoever that is.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)And the symptoms of someone who is contagious (as per the quote you took from the article and I reiterated) are very relevant in this context.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)"Humans are not infectious until they develop symptoms. First symptoms are the sudden onset of fever, fatigue, muscle pain, headache and sore throat.'
That is directly from WHO.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/
Again, the 1st symptom is sudden onset of fever. Again, that is why the health care workers in the epidemic constantly monitor their temperatures, and why Dr. Brantly isolated himself as soon as he saw an elevated temperature.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)The incubation period of Ebola virus disease (EVD) varies from 2 to 21 days. Person-to-person transmission by means of direct contact with infected persons or their body fluids/secretions is considered the principal mode of transmission. In a household study, secondary transmission took place only if direct physical contact occurred. No transmission was reported without this direct contact. Airborne transmission has not been documented during previous EVD outbreaks.
There is no risk of transmission during the incubation period and only low risk of transmission in the early phase of symptomatic patients. The risk of infection during transport of persons can be further reduced through use of infection control precautions (see paragraphs 3.2 and 3.3).
http://www.who.int/ith/updates/20140421/en/
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Furthermore, this guy was highly symptomatic the second time he went to the hospital.
Somebody screwed up when they let him go first time he showed up for treatment.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)FourScore
(9,704 posts)Meanwhile, the virus is spreading.
I don't think people need to panic, but let's be clear...This is NOT under control.
I can't believe people are acting like this is nothing.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Your post is absolutely correct but I just don't think anyone inclined to believe the worst is going to have their minds changed by knowledge/facts.
I am far more concerned about respiratory and emerging influenza strains coming out of SE Asia.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)Ebola has been detected in blood and many body fluids. Body fluids include saliva, mucus, vomit, feces, sweat, tears, breast milk, urine, and semen.
Can Ebola spread by coughing? By sneezing?
Unlike respiratory illnesses like measles or chickenpox, which can be transmitted by virus particles that remain suspended in the air after an infected person coughs or sneezes, Ebola is transmitted by direct contact with body fluids of a person who has symptoms of Ebola disease. Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that persons eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.
What does direct contact mean?
Direct contact means that body fluids (blood, saliva, mucus, vomit, urine, or feces) from an infected person (alive or dead) have touched someones eyes, nose, or mouth or an open cut, wound, or abrasion.
How long does Ebola live outside the body?
Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.
Are patients who recover from Ebola immune for life? Can they get it again - the same or a different strain?
Recovery from Ebola depends on good supportive clinical care and a patients immune response. Available evidence shows that people who recover from Ebola infection develop antibodies that last for at least 10 years, possibly longer.
We dont know if people who recover are immune for life or if they can become infected with a different species of Ebola.
If someone survives Ebola, can he or she still spread the virus?
Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. People who recover from Ebola are advised to abstain from sex or use condoms for 3 months.
Can Ebola be spread through mosquitos?
There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus. Only mammals (for example, humans, bats, monkeys and apes) have shown the ability to spread and become infected with Ebola virus.
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Sounds like this second person is already showing symptoms.
"DALLAS Due to close contact with a patient diagnosed with the Ebola virus, a second person is under the close monitoring of health officials as a possible second patient, said the director of Dallas County's health department Wednesday morning in an interview with WFAA."
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/01/thompson-dallas-county-ebola-patient-cases/16524303/
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Look, they should have caught this guy on the first visit, but they did catch him on the second. They have, or will very soon, identify all those who came into contact with him from the 24th through the 28th. Those people will be monitored and then quarantined immediately upon showing any symptoms.
The ones most likely to be infected are the ambulance workers and his family, who were in contact with him when he was showing severe symptoms.
Texas, and the US, will declare this contained by Nov. 10.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)They are saying that person is a possible patient.
If this person was not already symptomatic, why would they be saying that? Specifically about this one person?
They are supposedly monitoring all people this first patient came in contact with.
Why would the be singling out a "possible second patient" if this second patient was not already symptomatic?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)in the bud, IN CASE he starts showing symptoms. Rather than letting a possibly exposed possibly infectd person decide whether or not to seek help IF they show symptoms, monitoring them seems a wise thing to do.
My guess is this person was closer, physically, to the already sick one and hence likely exposed and in the incubation period where the rest of the city probably were not exposed.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Why would they be singling out this particular person as a second patient if this person was not already showing symptoms?
It's rather obvious they don't want to spread panic.
I don't see them talking about possible second patient unless that patient was already symptomatic (such as a fever).
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)That much I agree with you on.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)I bet the second one is already symptomatic.
And so it's likely spreading.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)Although, until evidence shows otherwise, I tend to think if it has spread beyond the original patient in Dallas that it won't move beyond the group being monitored.
Hope I'm right.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)this person helped cleanup after the sick one. Maybe the sick one had a nose bleed and this one cleaned up the blood. Or they vomitted, or had some other bodily fluid exposure. From the article, it sounds like they were very close, very probably exposed where other friends and family had only casual contact that was not xposure to bodily fluids.
it is simple. Closely monitor one who was exposed to bodily fluids so in case they got it, it will be caught quickly. People with casual exposure, living in the same house but not exposes to bodily fluids, keep an eye on them.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)isolation because at that point, being symptomatic, he'd be putting out the virus, contagious and others could catch it from him (I am using "him" for simplicity, not because it is male).
The more likely someone came into contact with the symptomatic, now hospitalized, patient's bodily fluids, the more closely they will monitor them as more likely they caught it.
As soon as any of them show symptoms, they will be put into isolation as then they will be contagious.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I'm not convinced of any imminent American pandemic or anything truly insane like that, but I'm glad that the CDC's trying to keep up with this. But I do think more may be needed if things get worse, however.
chrisa
(4,524 posts)librechik
(30,674 posts)It's not going away now that' it's out of the jungle.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Have you been reading Mercola or something?
Oh, and btw, influenza was never once exclusive to jungles, either.....just thought I'd point that out.
librechik
(30,674 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)librechik
(30,674 posts)here's one-- pay special attention to the epidemic specialist lady from the CFR--she tells it like it is
http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2014-10-02/ebola-crisis-dot-charlie-rose-10-02
unfortunately, they edited out the last 5 mins where everyone agreed it has to be admitted there will be more cases and more over time here. But it's already a long term public health issue, since it was identified about 40 years ago. And every hospital is prepared for the occasional dengue fever or even plague victim. Of course there are long term protocols already in place--we just have to remember to use them.
here's a general article--it includes links to the WHO study and the CDC study, both of which advise a long term strategy.
http://news.sciencemag.org/africa/2014/09/who-cdc-publish-grim-new-ebola-projections
I just don't understand your objection. Should we be less prepared? never mind, you're ignored. Average isn't good enough for me.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)That's the best hope I would think in the next year or so.
valerief
(53,235 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Have you ever been exposed to a sick person, maybe someone with a cold, the flu, even measles? It takes a bit of time for the virus to build up, for you to not just become sick but to be putting out the virus, be contagious.
People in the ER, anyone who came in close contact with them AFTER they showed symptoms and became contagious, they need to be monitered for the next 3 weeks and IF any of them get sick, they will be placed in isolation until what they have is determined.
valerief
(53,235 posts)And who didn't go to the ER.
Whatever.
Viruses mutate, too. Who knows how well this can be contained or how quickly it will spread? It clearly wasn't contained in Dallas.
I think Congress needs to cut more Ebola-fighting funding and buy more guns instead, cuz, you know, Jesus and freedumb and 2nd amendment.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)wtf?
Are you saying this person should have been prevented from flying, even though he wasn't contagious, because someone else sneezed and died? I do not understand what you are saying.
valerief
(53,235 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Are you saying this person should have been prevented from flying, even though he wasn't contagious, because someone else sneezed and died? I do not understand what you are saying.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)In West Africa, the cultural issues surrounding death are different. Family members must wash the body immediately after death according to custom.
That's one heck of a way to be exposed to body fluids.