General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe other day ...
DUer, Fourscore, posted an "Open Letter" OP that began:
Relax, I'm white, too. Look, I can do the secret handshake and nudge-nudge, wink-wink. Lemme whitesplain something to you, fellow white men: no one buys your bullshit. That's because your bullshit runs like this: For historically- and presently-oppressed black people to be treated decently, they must carefully avoid doing anything that could be remotely twisted into behaving like a white racist, even if you're squinting and looking at it from five hundred meters away in a thick fog. Because that would be racist, and therefore hypocritical, and if that's the case, they deserve to continue to be oppressed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5610937
Interestingly, its reception, on this message board populated with self described "liberals" and "progressives", was decidedly mixed ... most read it for what it was - a rant against white privilege and those denying or wishing to pretend it doesn't exist. However, there was a significant number of responses, that while (presumably) accepting of the substance of the piece, were critical of the piece as "ineffective" because of its tone.
(I won't even mention the few that flat out denied the existence of the phenomena or wrote the piece off as masturbatory tedium.)
Then another DUer asked one of those critics to do a re-write of the OP, transforming the content into something more palatable.
That got me to thinking ... what a wonderful idea - for those critical of the piece, here's your chance to tell others how to address the topic of white privilege in a manner that is/will be acceptable to those that, either deny its existence or are offended by the tone of pieces discussing it.
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locdlib
(176 posts)I can't wait to see if they will respond.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)which will lead me to believe, the OP's "tone" wasn't the issue.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)To be honest - I think I have the solution to white privilege as a result of that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)It always ends up at "income inequality ". If that's the case then we need to lift all . . .
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and responded.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)an hour in and 198 views and not a single attempt at a re-write.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Funny - Sheshes' post in the AA Group lead to a productive discussion. Off to read the GD post . . .
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Thing is, I consider both the "more palatable/acceptable" manner of couching an issue, as well as the "caustic" method to be equally important.
It is why I appreciate such things, even though I still tend to think of it in a more palatable tone, otherwise I turn it in to humor.
In doing so, I want to reach a broader audience as possible.
I tend to believe that people won't listen unless they are ready to take in the message.
So, spreading a message through different means and various messages to me is a great thing.
I know, that sometimes I mention that perhaps it is best to mention it as something else, or explain it differently, but that is because I also tend to think that there are people that could become allies and become stronger proponents of a cause if taken in gently.
So, there is a place for both things.
I don't need to change it. That is their voice, mine is different.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I wish more people (white people especially) had the humility to realize this.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I was somewhat dismayed by the comments that rant received. This a great idea.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
ancianita
(35,944 posts)another's.
I can't feel a rant, though. I've done them, but they were situational. I like Fourscore's, anyway. I do have a lot to say on this stuff, but it would be a bit off topic, probably.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)off-topic or not.
ancianita
(35,944 posts)As far as my own privilege goes, I've been born into circumstances that, if I'd been black, would have held me back as poor for a lot longer than I already was, maybe for a lifetime; in that sense I've experienced advancements that I think the collective construct of white privilege gave me.
But I will tell everyone on DU, that, even more than my struggling parents and a man who believed in me helped me, the only people who really, truly helped me survive in my roughest hours -- when I was broke, sick or in jail -- were black individuals.
Those are long stories, but I do not exaggerate when I say that if I hadn't received their help at the very low points I was at, I would not be in the relatively healthy, comfortable circumstances I and my children are in today. I don’t know what to call the greatness of their help – karma, right place/right time, or love.
But I've always known that their help wasn’t because they were black. They had no agenda, nothing to prove to themselves, me or anyone else. They never asked for anything in return. The people who helped me did so because they were good, kindhearted people, and they could. To this day I feel privileged to have received their help, and to my dying day I will be grateful to have been in the same world with them.
I'll stop there for now. But I do have more to say on privilege.
FYI, I wasn't online that night and didn't see that thread, or I'd have rec'd it and supported Fourscore.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It certainly was not off topic and advanced the discussion.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Dehumanization - however subtle - is what allows all the other ugliness to follow.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)not a single re-write in the thread.
Telling ... very telling.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)in a more palatable and less confrontational way. I am really looking forward to see what they come up with!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Because I'm starting to believe there IS no way to discuss this topic in a manner that is palatable to white folks.
ancianita
(35,944 posts)Last edited Sat Oct 4, 2014, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)
Privilege is an ego construct, a protectedness so internalized that one doesn't even feel pride as much as identity in being on the winning end of inclusion/exclusion narratives based on sex, religion, race or material gain. As children the construct unfolds as stories we tell ourselves and each other. Later it's a club mentality, keenly felt through the gain/loss of inclusions/exclusions of belongingness that show up in high school.
Then the adult world's versions of privilege are more invisible, yet with a hardness. Behind privilege lies the threat of force, not by those who enjoy it by accident of birth or trained entitlement, but by enforcers whose identities, conveniently for the ‘innocent’, always seem to remain nameless. The privileged adopt the construct of club ‘manners’ to mitigate awareness of the hidden violence toward those who ‘violate.’ Here we’re talking race, but my personal experience lies with gender. In either case, the array of force beyond the privilege bubble exist, just in different forms.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)My rewrite is downthread now. (Under 1SBM's OP, not the original OP.)
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)garnering kudos and attaboys for its author.
That was and is my point.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And people should just be quiet about it?
If you had a better idea about how to discuss it, this was your chance to offer a better way. You offer nothing of value, just ridicule from the sidelines- got it.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)pretty much no one is the BEST way to fight racism ever devised.
I just lament that MLK, Malcolm X, and other civil rights leaders never had the power
of the internet at their disposal. Why, if they could just post their content on progressive
websites, they could have avoided this altogether:
What a shame that MLK never had the chance to post this on Reddit:
Dear All Racist Bad People,
SRSLY? 
Love,
The MLKSter
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)actually belong, and HOW would you improve the tone?
I'm so glad you are turning this around and trying to be helpful, instead of taking pot shots from the sidelines. I look forward to hearing your brilliant suggestions.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and still, not a single rewrite?
Yep ... I am convinced the issue folks had with FourScore's Open Letter was its tone. 
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Dear white folks:
I'm a white guy too, and I've got a few things to say about race and denial.
Too many of us are going around using thinly-veiled excuses to continue to to reinforce the status quo, with white people as 'first class citizens' and people with darker skin tones as second class citizens. One of the most common is the 'reverse racism' meme. First, 'reverse racism' simply doesn't exist in America on any serious scale. Racism requires power. Anyone can be racially bigoted, but racism is about who has the power to disadvantage other 'races'. And that power is tied to our institutions, our social and power structures - structures that were set up by white people, for white people, hundreds of years ago, and have been maintained that way mostly unchanged for all of that time.
So you just can't say 'they do it to us too'. They don't, they *can't*. Not until people of colour not only are in the majority in holding offices with power, and actually are using that power to set up systems to disadvantage whites. And even thinking that they'll want to do so is pretty damn paranoid. If you actually think they'll 'get whitey' as 'revenge', I think you need to get out and actually meet more people with darker skins and realize that they're just like those of us without a lot of melanin.
They simply want the same things you or I want.
To not worry that they'll be pulled over by cops for 'being in the wrong place', 'being in a car that looks too expensive', 'being "the kind of people" cops assume are criminals' based on nothing more than a dark skin. To not be disproportionately arrested for minor crimes, and not to be strangled to death over misdemeanours. To not worry that they'll be shot by police when they obey police orders during a traffic stop because police simply assume they're 'lunging for a weapon' when they reach for their wallet, or that ANYTHING in their hands is a weapon, that ANY movement even slightly towards the cop is an 'attempt to charge' that will result in a hail of bullets.
To be able to rush their pregnant wives to the hospital without worrying about being gunned down. To be able to go up to a house and knock to ask for someone to call 911 after an accident without simply being gunned down. To be able to play their own music in their own car, without being gunned down.
To be able to walk around stores without being followed or watched by clerks constantly, under the assumption that they're shoplifters. To not be stopped for 'credit card theft' when they use their very own credit cards to buy high-priced merchandise. To not simply be told by clerks that 'they can't afford that' when they show an interest in some item without a clearly marked price.
To be able to send their children to schools that aren't falling apart. To have teachers who don't suspend their children or give them detention at rates far higher than their white fellow students for the exact same behaviours. To have their children given the same extra tutoring if it's available, for them to not be dismissively told that they won't ever amount to anything, or that they won't do well.
To be able to have the same chance to get a job interview as us white folks, even if they have 'black sounding' names. To be hired for jobs based on their experience, their abilities, their own attitude towards work. Not to have it assumed that they will be 'lazy' or 'trouble' or prone to missing work.
To be able to get loans based on their credit rating, and houses or apartments in any neighbourhood, without people complaining that they'll 'bring down property values', without realtors trying to 'guide' them into 'appropriate' neighbourhoods. And to have their new neighbours welcome them, and smile at their children when they're walking down the street to get candy at the local store. Not to call the police on them, stalk them, and murder them for the crime of simply being in an area where burglaries have taken place of late.
They don't dream of enslaving you, of having cops who shoot you for no reason other than 'they're scared' of white people. They don't deserve what's happening to them day after day, week after week, month after month, because white people are 'scared' and too damn quick to pull a gun out of fear. They don't want to turn the tables on us. They simply want to join us in being able to live in dignity and without fear. And there is simply no way to 'justify' the way black people, Hispanic people, American Indians are mistreated in America. Even if you can find some black guys somewhere who ARE criminals, who are worth being 'scared' of, it simply doesn't justify the mistreatment and mistrust of EVERY black person, any more than they should mistrust EVERY white person because the Aryan Brotherhood exists.
There is no justification for collective guilt. None. Each and every person should be judged in and of themselves, not based on their skin tone, their ethnicity, their religion. And if, IF, some legal issue arises, it should be dealt with by law enforcement who do not look to 'skin tone' to judge the seriousness of a crime, or how 'bad' any alleged perpetrator is. Not by cops who assume 'black = bad' and not by wanna-be vigilantes. And even then, those individuals should not be mistreated, ever. The MINIMUM amount of force possible should always be used, and police should be trained to de-escalate tense situations, not to jump to lethal force if an alleged perpetrator has dark skin.
They want what we want. Because we're all humans together, with the same needs. And one of those needs is not to live every day in fear that any minor thing you do or someone imagines you do is going to get you killed.
So now let's talk white privilege. Over and over again, people circle around to the argument that bringing up 'white privilege' is racist. Wrong again. Pointing out things that exist, and pointing out how they need to change is not racist, even when it's directly tied to race.
(I'm leaving some of the original text with only minor changes here.)
Complaining about white privilege is not the same as assigning collective guilt to white people. White privilege is a pervasive feature of our society and our legal system. It's hard to see if you're white (and you're not looking or actively trying not to look), but it is real, it is powerfully destructive, and if global warming had the kind of statistical support that evidence of white privilege has, Bill O'Reilly would be haranguing FOX News viewers to install solar panels.
And here's the subtle point that many white folks either can't or won't grasp. White privilege is especially the responsibility of white people to fix right now, not because we're all racially bigoted schlubs, but because white privilege itself means that we're the ones who have the power to change it. Black people don't have that power, and won't until or unless they finally wind up with enough elected offices and hold enough key positions in business and organizations. Until that point in time, it's our problem and our responsibility as white people to fix not because whites are collectively guilty, but because we still hold the reins of power.
It is the responsibility of ALL PEOPLE to fight for decent treatment for ALL PEOPLE. It just happens that, because of the historical nature of people with 'white' skins to be the exploiters, rather than the exploited, throughout history, we white people are the ones who can do something about it. When the finger on the trigger is white, it's pointless to ask a black guy to lower the gun.
And quite frankly, given all the shit that our black fellow citizens have put up with, and all the shit they have to deal with every. fucking. day., if some of them lose their tempers and say things that make you feel defensive, is that actually surprising? You lose your minds when black people just complain verbally about being kicked. Imagine how tough it would be for you to keep your cool if someone was actually doing something to you instead of just talking.
I'd like to think that this made you think a bit. Made you reconsider the automatic denial that any of us feel when we think we're being 'accused' of something, the denial that you and I have the 'privilege' of not being treated poorly, insulted, or even murdered that darker skinned people do not. As long as people of colour are being murdered by the state, given draconian sentences for crimes that in many cases they haven't even committed, and being held in poverty and privation and a constant state of fear, you'll keep hearing about racism and white privilege. Because until that day comes, if it ever does, these talks will be necessary.
Regards,
Your fellow privileged white guy
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)My rewrite was a result of a specific invitation by 1SBM to contribute; I hadn't seen this thread originally. It was previously suggested to me in a reply in the earlier thread during the week that such a rewrite might be a useful exercise, but I didn't have time to do so at that point in time, but did this morning.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)was that it was so easy to think of examples of exactly why being a person of colour in America is so damned hard, and so dangerous. And for every recent incident I could think of just while writing, more came to mind just after, and those are just the tip of the iceberg, the few cases that actually made it through the media gatekeepers. Social, peer to peer media dissemination might just be the strongest weapon in changing the status quo that's ever come along.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I appreciate your effort. It is true to the content of the original Open Letter.
Now, we wait for the comments.
It takes people of good faith ... you are one such person.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Very few people think of themselves as 'racists', in large part because of the sloppy way the word is used in the vernacular to usually denote virulent racial bigots. As a result, the word itself pretty much guarantees that people go knee-jerk defensive when the word is used in a way that they even slightly feels applies to themselves.
I'm racist in the actual sense of the word, not the layman's usage. I grew up within a racist social and power system, and I was indoctrinated in maintaining those structures. I also recognize, that as a result, some of my automatic reflexes are also bigoted. That is why it is incumbent upon me to consciously work to constantly recognize when my actions or even thoughts are simply results of the racist society in which I grew up and still live, and to strive to find ways to change that society to reduce the inequalities that are built into our justice system, our financial system, our educational system, and the rest.
We are nowhere near a 'post-racial' society, we have barely begun the struggle to achieve such. The sad thought to me is that we might only finally achieve such as a result of demographics, rather than conscious intent as a nation. Be dragged 'kicking and screaming' as it were, fighting against true equality every step of the way.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This was pretty perfect too. I can't find any changes I would make. This should be it's own op.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Anyone can reprint it or reuse it for any purpose, other than to say they wrote it, sue me and claim it's plagiarism 
Although, as noted, especially at the bottom, it was close to a steal of parts of the prior post, of course. But that came from DK originally, iirc.
But you could keep adding onto it, especially in the top section, both with examples of how whites and PoC are treated differently, both specifically by police and also by other sections of society. Hell, I'm in healthcare, and I didn't even touch on the disparity in healthcare treatment and outcomes, or the historical use of black people as uninformed test subjects. If there's a single facet of American society that doesn't have built-in racial disparities, I can't think of what it might be.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)although I'd hope anyone who does at least credits the original post it was based on (since several paragraphs at the end were barely altered from the original) and note that it arose as part of the 1SBM challenge.
In fact, I'd bet any of our actual people of colour onsite could rewrite it yet again, with even more examples and first-hand insights that would make it even better. Let's keep the rewriting going, heh.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)to white people; we are invariably shut down or tuned out because the "tone isn't right", or told what to/not to say as it hurts feelings and causes defensiveness.
No! The value is found in white people listening to and learning about, then thinking how to best communicate that story to other white people. And I would offer that the people that would most benefit from the effort are those who are convinced that the know the story, yet can think of nothing they can do to change the racial status quo.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Isn't that where we started though? I felt that the tone wasn't as useful as it could have been on the first one. (Which, admittedly, was also written by a white guy.) Not because I objected to the point of view, or the content, but merely the rhetorical use of insults and anger as they inspire such defensiveness and 'hurt feelings'. My attempt was to try to sidestep accusatory language and simply try to get potential white readers to think about the same points without being told they were idiots and assholes. And there are plenty of black writers who do that already, and write far better than I do to boot. Ta-Nehisi Coates comes to mind, from what I've seen of his work, although I admit I don't read him regularly (as I probably should) so it's certainly possible he's got angry writing out there as well.
And, if we assume CANDO (spelling?) read it, it doesn't seem to have worked too well even at that. I feel like the slow student trying to explain materials I barely understand myself to someone who doesn't even share the few basics I've managed to latch onto.
ancianita
(35,944 posts)ancianita
(35,944 posts)CANDO
(2,068 posts)These threads N E V E R offer suggestions or solutions to combating racism. They just go on and on and on and on about whether white people "get it". By and large, white progressives "get it". So these threads are posted ad nausea and pissing matches ensue over definitions or differences of opinion. They are N E V E R constructive in a sense because the posters who post them N E V E R tell me as a white person what I can do or need to do to combat racism in our society. I am aware of the atrocious shooting and killing of unarmed black men. I am aware of the myriad of ways that blacks and minorities are harrassed in their daily lives by LEOs. It sickens me to my core that this goes on in our nation. I vote for liberal/progressive lawmakers in an attempt to right these wrongs. Beyond voting in the right pols, what exactly can we do about these injustices. So from now on, instead of posting these threads in an attempt to get us to get it, and we by and large do, post threads about what we all can do to right the wrongs of racism, institutional or otherwise.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I've been reading about white privilege for several years now, and there's always new nuances to explore, new points as to ways in which laws and mores reinforce such privilege.
What can you, personally, do about it? well, as you said 'support the right pols' is the 'least expensive' way to create change - it requires the least effort of you or I as individuals. Contributing money to organizations who work on creating change or empowering people of colour is the 'next easiest' way to help. From there it starts requiring more effort of the individual. Writing letters to the editor, inspiring others to take up crusades to change specific aspects of privilege, starting such pushes yourself. Getting petitions together to change laws in your city, your state to end discriminatory practices. Creating and promoting voter referendums.
There's a range of options available from those that simply require your vote or your money all the way up through involving yourself directly in creating and pushing legislation.
One of my ways is in my sig - I contribute my resources in supporting a food pantry and learning annex that serves one of the most poverty stricken groups of people of colour in the country.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Posts such as yours are far better than the obsessive "beating the drum of WP" for no apparent reason than to do so. Why? Because as I said in my previous thread, we do get it by and large. So if anyone wants to solely focus on that, you'll have a thread full of malcontent because most white folks alive today did not create the societal conditions as they are. I/we don't wake up every day and think what it is today we can do to further cement the conditions as they exist. We just don't. I get up every day to go to work to provide for my family. To continue to bang the drum as though we like our WP, is just going to alienate us from the cause of ending racism. In the end, this ends up being a circular argument. Does racism exist due to WP? Or does WP exist because of racism? Why argue over that when we could be taking steps to ending racism. As I see it, if you go about combating racism via continually telling people they are privileged(as though that is the problem causing racism) and they somehow don't feel that way(and as I've said already, we get it), then you end up doing nothing but stirring up shit instead of stirring up help in combating racism. And now I'll be attacked and condemned and alerted upon because I dared put my opinion on the internets and dared disagree in small way with the OP. That's how this dance plays out.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I do not believe that By and large, white progressives "get it", especially if DU is to serve as example.
I have seen several posts that give solutions; but each starts with recognizing/admitting the current state ... and therefore, is discounted as just another "tedious vanity post."
Lastly, I think the best, and most effective, solution is white people talking to white people about how deeply ingrained racism is in this society and how it manifests as privilege, until we no longer hear people deny the existence of privilege, or hear them mistake it for a call for white people to feel guilty, and no longer get defensive when the subject is broached.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)You just can't get beyond this being an exercise in getting all respondents to surrender their own life's experiences and accepting yours as theirs. So do you think WP causes racism? Or is WP a byproduct of racism? Do you think I'm a racist because I was born white? I sure as heck don't consider myself racist even if I quibble with your viewpoints. If you disagree with my viewpoint, does that make me wrong, or is it just a different opinion? And remember, I've stated that yes, what you describe as WP does exist even though I don't accept it as a privilege as much as I consider it my life's experiences. I mean, to me, being able to drive down the street unmolested by LEOs for no other reason as being white isn't a privilege, its called freedom and normal and should be the norm for everyone of all backgrounds. And at the same time, I can see that others being molested for the color of their skin is wrong and should be stamped out in a free society. Do you get what I'm saying? So you go about these threads as though WP is the problem when it isn't. R A C I S M is the problem. What you see as others being privileged is just from your perspective and that's fine. And if you think that the problem and root cause of racism is what you view as my privilege, well good luck. Myself being born white didn't cause the ignorant cop to shoot first and ask questions later. Now someone will chime in and say "but it's not about you". Well sorry, I disagree, because if racism is caused by WP(as these threads seem to imply), then it is about me. And if you don't think the privilege of others causes racism, then why these threads to begin with? And that's where these threads go wrong because the OP's are a mixed bag of confused logic. In the end, I'm not a racist. I don't condone it and think it needs to go. Does my privilege exist through your eyes? I suppose so even though I may not view it that way. I may not call it privilege so much as normalcy that we all should be afforded in a free society. Am I willing to work toward that goal even if we disagree about the details and definitions and opinions? Of course! It's a 2 way street, not a my way or the highway.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's true. Tell us how white supremacy (white privilege) is not the cause of our racist institutions.
If white people have freedom to move through the society freely, without notice or judgement based on color by the majority , then are they not the only race with 'freedom'. When only one group has that freedom, then they are the ones 'privileged' to not suffer the many indignities that others suffer, the discrimination that they are the only race to not be affected by. Is it not then a privilege to not suffer for the skin you are born in, when every other color suffers those indignities, and the suffering is caused by other white people?
The rest of us don't have your freedom. Therefore you ARE privileged to be able to use your freedom and count on it to be there when you need it. We have freedom in theory, but, it falls apart in practice, since we do not have the power to use our freedom as we would if we were white.
What you can do to help, is to stop denying that you hold a more privileged place in society than you would if you had a high melanin component in your skin. Realtors would then steer you into 'certain' neighborhoods than you would be shown now. Even if you had your same job and credit rating, you would be given worse rates for your home loan and car loan. If stopped by police you would be held to a higher level of suspicion. You would hear how violent you are supposed to be on a daily basis from white people. You will get called 'nigger' at least a thousand times. You would have cabs pass you by, people cross the street when you walk along. If you complained you would get told by a white person that you don't have it any worse than them, and they will be nasty to you for fixing your lips to complain about white privilege. Employers would toss your application if your name sound too 'ethnic', then be told that it s your fault you can't find a job, even though you have your qualifications and want to work. Your sister would be called a welfare queen even though she works everyday.
You have no idea what you would go through, so, you should probably cool it with the angry approach. I have not forgotten when you told a very professional black woman on this site to' get a job, and stay out of jail' and asked she if she wanted your job. That is how you would be treated if you were black. Just like you treated her. You are the last person to talk.
I think you are blind to your own privilege and get angry when any discussion of race comes up. It seems to make you very defensive, and I find that strange sine you just declared you are NOT a racist. Even though nobody asked you if you were, or called you any thing.
A wise man on DU once told me " Throw a stone. The dogs that yelped, be the dogs that got hit.' Or something like that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that I'm certain the tone of my response would have been a problem.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I had an uppity tone at first. Then i downgraded to a therapy tone. Tone matters more than anything else. Even racism.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And I'm beyond glad that you didn't let that one off the hook.
Every single post from that person is couched in the post he made to onpatrol imo. As far as I'm concerned, he forfeited the right to post on this topic with the anger and ignorance in full display in that post.
And the fact that onpatrol hasn't been around much since is I'm sure a coincidence.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)At first I wondered if it was a one time thing, but It is obvious that this anger of his directed at the very idea of white privilege is over the top.
And he never apologized to her, and continues to be nasty and rude to a specific group of people on DU. This is why i slowed down on posting.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)we both know that. It is the topic of white privilege that is the issue. It would not matter how it was addressed because it will always be denied that it exists by far to many people.
Thank you for your OP, 1Strong.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)A thread to rewrite the OP in acceptable language ... and a bunch of hours and views later, I think I can conclude the "tone" agreement is BULLSHIT!
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)I am off to work. Enjoy your weekend~
Rex
(65,616 posts)Let's face facts that day will never come. People that rail against white privilege, don't understand it imo.
Warpy
(111,169 posts)always seems to provoke a defensive response. After all, they never asked for that privilege, they were born with it and who are you to question it? It's not like they are conscious of it.
I'm afraid any discussion of privilege will provoke that kind of response. I know I trigger it frequently here on DU when I dare to tell white men that white women live in a completely different world from the one they move so easily through.
I'm afraid there is no way to address the subject of privilege without offending the privileged unless they're already contrarians who confront it head on.
The choice is between upholding the status quo and offending people who most benefit from it. I know what my choice is and no matter how delicately I phrase it, it will never be palatable.
malaise
(268,717 posts)Rec
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)would be lining up to do a rewrite ... if that were their true concern/complaint. 
malaise
(268,717 posts)Well now you know that was not their true concern/complaint.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I'm shocked!
malaise
(268,717 posts)
ismnotwasm
(41,967 posts)I wait with bated breath for this magnum opus.
valerief
(53,235 posts)created to attract liberals doesn't mean it's populated fully with "actual" liberals.
Stores are made to attract shoppers but they get quite a few shoplifters, too, and many are repeaters.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Some of them are more overt, others are more sly or smart about it. But the intent is the same-disruption and derailment.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Whatever the topic.
Something like this, "Maybe if you said it nicer, people would be more likely to listen." But the fact is, it's simply not true. They won't listen no matter how nicely you put it, whether it's about white privilege, feminism, rape culture, global warming, or anything else.