If you were writing new laws around dog ownership...

[MannyGoldstein]

If you were writing new laws around dog ownership, what would they be?

Ban certain breeds? All dogs on leashes? Must be under a certain weight?

[First Speaker]

1. ...??? Why should anyone wish to do this...?

...is there some dog-ownership crisis we've been unaware of?

[Blue_In_AK]

2. I understand leash laws, but

we never put our Shih-tzu on a leash when we go for walks. We only go where we'll see very few people, and she walks right by our side anyway. If a bicycle or runner comes by, she steps right off the trail.

Yes, I know, I know, if we let our dog do it, everybody will want to, but I really don't care.

[merrily]

26. A dog whose owner KNEW he would attack male dogs had

him off a leash and he attacked my son's dog viciously, attempting, apparently, to bite off his testicles.

How do I know she knew? As her dog made a dash from my son's, she said lamely, "Is that a male? Uh oh.&quot The attack was horrible and she could not stop it and neither could I. At some point, the dog let go and I ran away with my son's dog and got him to a vet.

[Blue_In_AK]

49. And that, of course, is the issue.

Our dog would never attack anyone or any other dog. When we approach another person on the trail, with or without a dog, she moves around behind our legs to put us between her and the other person. But, of course, not all dogs are so well trained.

i'm really sorry that happened to your son's dog, especially since the woman knew there was an issue. If we had ever had ANY indication that our pup was aggressive, she wouldn't walk free.

Here's our beast with my husband and a moose.

[merrily]

51. Is that large for a shih tzu?

A good friend has a companion dog for emotional reasons. (I am using "companion" because I cannot think of the correct term this second. Assistant, maybe? Just not coming to mind.) She is a cross between a shih tzu and one of the smaller breeds of poodles. She is so tiny--and mostly fur at that. Just as sweet as she can be. He holds her in his arms all the time. Petting her does wonders for him.

The dog that attacked my son's dog was a larger dog. I want to say shepherd size, but I was way too panicked to note his breed. Without thinking, I started punching him on top of his head in hopes of getting him to release my son's dog's testicles from his jaws. And my son's dog was helpless. He was not only a puppy, but a Tibetan terrier. They were never anything but pets. Not hunters, not herders, just pets. A toddler once stomped on his stomach when he was lying down and he did nothing but whimper and run away. A very gentle dog.

I was so furious with the owner for letting her dog run free when she knew he would hurt other male dogs. And I do mean run. Even before he spotted or smelled my son's dog, he was running way ahead of her. There was no way she could have caught up with him before he did damage to whatever and whomever he wanted to damage.

And did mention, this was in the city, near a park? Little kids left and right.

Anyway, thanks for the pic. Both your husband and your puppy look very nice.

[Blue_In_AK]

54. Yes, she's pretty good-sized for a Shih-tzu

but within range. The smaller size of your friend's dog is probably due to the mix.

I never really was much of a dog person, but I would recommend this breed to anyone. She is the perfect companion dog, gentle, sweet, social, and what I like best -- she doesn't shed and is hypo-allergenic. As soon as anyone touches her, she rolls over on her back "rub my tummy," completely submissive.

Maybe it's the way she was raised and the fact that we're with her all the time since we're retired, but she's really an awesome pet.

[merrily]

56. I think the shih tzus, the Pekinese and the Tibetan Terriers all have the same

"prized pet" heritage and that makes for a gentle doggie.

[NYC_SKP]

3. Mandatory neutering in most cases, no breeding without a license, leash law with strict penalties.

I don't know that I'd put restrictions on breeds or sizes, but I wouldn't tolerate people or households keeping dogs if they can't care for them.

So if a dog bites, huge fine and no more dogs for you. Caught running lose, three strikes huge fines, needed to pay for the no-kill shelters I'll build.

I would also try to promote adoption and educate people away from some breeds.

What happens is that certain breeds become fashionable, then are overbred, then there are too many of them and they suffer.

Chihuahuas and Pit Bull terriers are breeds which have recently been over produced, which is different from genetically overbred.

Overbred dogs include Labradors and German Shepherds.

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. Are you talking about conservatives or dogs?

I mean, well, you know.........

[NYC_SKP]

12. Oh, I would invoke a weight limit on conservatives.

Anything over 4 pounds 2 ounces gets neutered and put on a leash.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Well, they do have

plenty of lightweights.

[hlthe2b]

4. Send their humans to dog owner school, just as we ought to consider for potential parents.

unless, in each case they can show the equivalent in knowledge and/or experience.


Ok...

But, really.... there is a point to be made.

[LeftyMom]

5. Socialization and vet care.

Require dogs to be altered unless very specific requirements are met. No fixed point tethering except for short periods. More funds for humane enforcement and for sheltering. Free alterations and shots for low income households. All shelters should offer a training and socialization class when people adopt, an annual refresher class should be encouraged by a discount on pet licensing fees.

Shut down backyard breeders, puppy mills and puppy stores.

We know, statistically, that the most dangerous dogs are: unaltered dogs and unsocialized dogs. Of any breed.

edit: And a database of abuse and neglect cases.

[hollysmom]

6. plus points for those that always pick up,.

I am sick and tired for being yelled at for some other dogs accident!

more off leash places in city parks. We only have one and it is unusable because they put it in an area that is under those giant power lines and filled the fenced in area with sharp rocks, not rounded ones, If you want your dogs feet to bleed go there. and at the beach they kept enlarging the tennis courts that no one used, so a few started using the empty courts, but got ticketed. They had more dogs with a ton of restrictions than they had tennis players and they added more restrictions while I was down there because someone had a child that was afraid of dogs and would cry when they saw them, not that the dogs cared about them, my dog only wanted to meet other dogs. So suddenly we were banned from a usually empty parking lot.

let dogs under the tables at sidewalk cafes - we are allowed on the sidewalk, so why not sit outside at a cafe? When it is on the city sidewalk?

have vets register your dog for you. My dogs rabies shots are after the licensing period, and it always causes a problem. I would pay my vet to register my dog.

ETA more prosecution of animal abuse. But not for silly things, subsidies for animal food for responsible owners in a financial crisis. More appreciation of how animals socialize humans. I had a friend who came back from Iraq with drug problems and PTSD - volunteering at a shelter helped bring him back.

[Man from Pickens]

7. Owner is responsible for all the dog's actions

as if he/she intentionally did those actions him or herself.

Including taking a crap on the sidewalk and leaving it there, annoying neighbors with barking all the time, attacking anyone, going onto someone else's property, and so on.

One simple rule is all anyone needs to know and it is inherently just and fair. No need to go into breed-specific anything.

[femmocrat]

9. Those are very good ideas.

I don't understand why people have dogs if they are not willing to do those things you mentioned.

[femmocrat]

8. Mandatory licensing, spay or neuter assistance, and up-to-date inoculations.

Also, anti-tethering laws. See example: http://www.unchainpadogs.com

I would also support cat laws: Veterinary care, spay/neuter, and keep them indoors. I don't support that cats should be left free to roam and spread diseases.

[tridim]

10. Cannabis would be legal as epilepsy medication for all mammals. nt

[DesertFlower]

13. a little off but close down ALL puppy mills.

i've only had 2 pedigree animals. my shit tzu came from a breeder who bred in her home.

my abbysinian cat also came from a breeder who bred in her home.

dogs should not be tied up on leashes outside the house.

[tabbycat31]

48. OT but please post pics of your Abyssinian

They're beautiful kittehs

[DesertFlower]

58. sorry -- i don't know how to

post pics on DU. he was beautiful. unfortunately he passed on 7/5/14 from kidney disease. i got him when he was 12 weeks old. breeder did not let you take them till they were completely weaned.

[tabbycat31]

61. I am very sorry for your loss

Losing a kitty is very hard.

If you have a photo uploaded somewhere online, you can post the URL for the photo. Make liberal use of the 'preview' feature.

[DesertFlower]

62. thank you. i lost my husband of 42 years

2-1/2 years ago. losing monkey (my cat) was really hard. i've had 7 cats and 1 dog. eventually they all get sick and die.

i have photos on facebook but not sure how to load them. i also have a picture file.

[Danmel]

15. no driving with a dog, or two, in your lap

Seriously, it is a dangerous distraction.

[jen63]

16. No tail or ear docking.

No debarking or declawing.

[pinboy3niner]

17. Unlawful in public without cat supervisor

[adirondacker]

42. Let's be careful there!

(props to BrotherIvan for posting this on this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/116118327

[Cleita]

18. First I'd say that dogs have more of a claim to personhood than

corporations. Let the Supreme Court figure that one out.

[newfie11]

19. Owners need to take dogs to classes

Owners learn as much as the dogs do.

Unless walking in a forest ( assuming recall is no problem) all dogs need to be on a leash.

As far as neutering/spaying there are some breeds such as mine (Newfs) that neutering under 2 has been proven to contribute to osteosarcoma.
After that neuter all YA want.

Pick up after your dog!!!!!

Don't keep your dog outside, this is a family member. If dogs are dirty to you don't get one!

[Autumn]

20. I would make a law that all dogs must be Papillons.

The most perfect dog there is. Well, at least mine are.

[magical thyme]

21. no limit on the # of humans they can own, but all humans

required to attend and pass basic training, including proper diet, poop cleaning, leash training.

Seriously, mandatory neutering/spaying without license to breed, basic training for humans on care, handling, management and etc. Off leash on your own property or specifically designated dog parks only. Plus existing licensing and rabies vax laws.

[Marrah_G]

22. I would require education for both the owner and the dog.

I would also require addition education if you want to own more then two dogs. Leashes I thought were pretty much required everywhere anyway.

Oh yes and the owner needs to get educated before picking up the dog. Too many pick a breed that is very wrong for them.

Breeding needs to be regulated more then anything. it needs to be licensed and regulated.

[TorchTheWitch]

23. no breed bans or size restrictions - they're stupid

After that I'm pretty harsh.

All dogs on leashes unless in designated off-leash parks or when used in hunting/tracking or any other reason a dog has to be off-leash (K-9 or other sport training or therapy dogs). In unpopulated areas these can be long lead lines so the dog can run and browse freely if they want to.

No puppy mills or backyard breeding - breeding only by reputable experienced and knowledgeable breeders that breed for health and temperament with licensing and periodic spot inspections. They can breed mutts if they please - don't have to adhere to specific breed standards.

Education for all dog owners including both training and understanding dog behavior. Local dog tag licensing. Owners also responsible for educating children or other people that share the home with the dog or guests that will temporarily share the home with the dog. Appropriate sized dog crate or room that the dog can be secured in if needed. Training should also include things like how to give your dog a pill, how to accustom your dog to wearing a muzzle, the most effective way to potty train, and education should also include things like why dogs should never have to walk, stand or sit on hot pavement, how to quickly cool down an overheated dog (cooling their feet), dangers of walking your dog on broken rocks like cobble stones or on ice especially for an extensive period, what sort of toys are appropriate for dog to play with and what are not, and various other tips I can't think of off the top of my head. Testing to make sure you actually learned anything and didn't just sleep through it. Fail the testing and no doggie for you yet. All this education and training should be paid for by community taxes since it's for the benefit of the whole community dog owners or not.

All dogs under physical control when outside the house/yard. That includes having appropriate fencing dogs can't get over, under or through and no stupid mistakes of forgetting to shut the door so the dog runs out, etc. or suffer penalty of a relatively inexpensive fine with one freebie first offense warning.

No abuse of any kind: All dogs must get appropriate check ups, mandatory vaccinations for not only rabies but parvo and any other hideous infectious disease, and appropriate medical care when needed. No starving or overfeeding to the point of gross obesity. No perpetually outdoor barking dogs that disturb neighbors regardless of the time of day. No tying or staking dogs outside or leaving them outside without appropriate shelter/shade and fresh water in a container that dog can't tip over. No having a dog always living outside... if you never want the dog in the home you have no business owning a dog. Breeders can use appropriate kennels with rotating the dogs through the home so they know how to behave in a home and can teach their pups the same.

Dog bite incidents to be reviewed and determined if the dog had legitimate reason to bite or not. Stricter penalties for those dogs with a history of biting without legitimate reason that breaks the skin.

Absolutely no dog hoarding or having too many dogs for the amount of available space. Many large breed dogs are perfectly happy living in a relatively small apartment as long as they are getting enough daily exercise outside of it.

Dog abusers or dog thieves shall have their skins removed slowly with a rusty knife for first infractions. Ok, not really, but major penalties for these assbuckets.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

[newfie11]

24. I notice many are calling for no breeding dogs

Last edited Sun Oct 5, 2014, 04:18 AM - Edit history (1)

I would say we should do what Germany does. FCI rules ( newfoundland dogs)
Any breeder must have a certain amount of land per girl and they are inspected. Really inspected!
All breeding dogs must be health tested including an echo of heart. If they don't pass they don't breed. If they throw a pup with heart problems they are required to echo parents again to check heart.
Yes it is regulated and breeders in this country would have a fit but it is very humane for the dogs.
This is why I went to Germany for my newfs.

[flvegan]

25. First of all, you're a guardian not an owner.

Second, you'll spay/neuter and otherwise be responsible. You'll house, feed, water and entertain as needed.

Lastly, if one were to consider a breed ban, one wouldn't get all alert-monkey when one of our own called you stupid for calling on Merritt Clifton for advice. You'd fucking know better.

This will be deleted, btw. Hurt feelings, and all.

[yourpicturehere]

28. No, I'm not

I am my dog's owner...get over it. I am NOT his guardian, even though I perform that task...usually against people that think they know how to run my life better than I do. That word "guardian" brings with it all kinds of legal implications. Let's have "dog protective services" so that the legal system can take away dogs and put them in shelters and put them down because someone has decided that they know better than I do what makes my animals happy.

Example? A few years back, some animal rights people decided that they would make up a set of circumstances that dog owners had to follow. One thing that sticks out in my mind is the temperature requirements. Now more than 85 degrees and no less than 40 degrees. Here's the problem...Whippets would freeze at 40 degrees and malamutes think 40 degrees is summer. Long haired dog, double-coated dog, short-haired dog don't fit into the same temperature range, but people that either don't want people to own pets, or that listen to the AR propaganda thought that was a great idea.

Another thing they wanted was for all dogs to be kept on concrete. Probably terribly uncomfortable to lay down on, but hey, AR thinks it's a good idea. I have long-haired dogs. On concrete they step in pee and it's on their feet and then it gets tracked into the house. The house and the dogs smell, but that's a perfect place for dps to come and say "Did you notice how that house stunk?" No, my dogs are not crowded, they have a quarter acre to play on, but the males step in pee, cos they're not too careful where they put their feet, cos they HAVE TO mark over another dog. My dogs are on patio blocks and gravel and that lets the pee drain and voila!, NO smell. They also have wooden decks to lay on and BIG trees to enjoy the shade from.

I was reading an article about how no one writes about responsible dog breeders and the sacrifices they make to make their dogs happy. Mr. and Mrs America have no idea. They get offended if a breeder doesn't think they are a good match for a dog, if the breeder wants to know how the dog will be cared for and kept, if the breeder wants the dog neutered (which is a requirement for ALL pet puppies I place.) Mr and Mrs A have no idea that responsible breeders have NO vacation, are up all hours if need be, and have to be home by a certain time to take care of the dogs. There is no money to be made, if things are done right, but, hey, we are ALL monsters and the propaganda goes on.

Oh, and BTW, there is no "hybrid vigor" in mixed breed or designer dogs. Dogs are all the same. They ALL carry the same genetic "junk". Everyone and everything on earth does. Mixed breed dogs are NOT health tested and the owner has no idea if it is genetic or not and probably won't spend the $$$$ to get the tests done. Responsible breeders will.

Most people will never understand just how passionate responsible breeders are about their chosen breed. We DEDICATE our lives to our dogs. Do you?

If and when responsible breeders become extinct, you will be left with irresponsible owners and breeders (ANYONE that has a dog that has a litter is technically a "breeder&quot that don't neuter their animals, don't provide decent living conditions, and have puppies cos "everybody wants one" or so that the kids have more puppies to "play" with.

[newfie11]

31. Thank you!!! For others please read!

Many people have never met a reputable breeder. They just find an ad in the newspaper from a back yard breeder.

The difference is:
1. Parents are tested and clear of inheritable illnesses.
2. Pups are not whelped without supervision.
3. I never leave pups alone for at least 3 weeks. They can be stepped on by mom or layed on.
4. I sleep on the floor next to pups for 3 weeks.
5. All pups are heart checked at 10 weeks by canine cardiologist before going to forever homes.
6. All puppy shots started.
7. Buyers must sign a 7 page agreement on how pups are to be cared for.
8. Pup/dogs no matter how old are never to be sold, given to rescue, given away. They must be returned to breeder, no questions asked.

A piece of my heart goes with each pup.
I don't breed often and when I do it is for me. My dogs live in my home with doggy doors outside to a fenced acre for playing.
I show my dogs, two have AKC Championships, one an International Champion. One a Draft Dog Title.

This some of what is involved in reputable breeding but not all by far.
I know you know this but I also know from reading above most don't.

[kcr]

35. Yes, everyone who wonders why laws protecting animals rarely pass should read it

They are always heavily lobbied by special interests who see animals as property. You think that post was wonderful? It made me sick.

[newfie11]

55. For Pete sakes

Your banned I can't take the stupidity and ignorance!

[kcr]

60. I can still post. Not banned!

[Recursion]

27. Don't vending machines kill more people than dogs?

In a country of 300 million people you'll be able to dig up scary stories about anything.

[JonLP24]

29. I'd focus on cruelty, probably a leash law as it is as much for the dogs safety as well as anyone el

There are more dogs than homes so I wouldn't get in the way unless there was abuse.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. As a matter of fact, yes.

I'd ban all breeds that have been bred to the point they almost always wind up with nasty conditions like hip dysplasia. You'd have to breed for health and longevity first, looks, size, etc, after you'd gotten healthy dogs.

And we always keep our dogs on leash if we're off our property anyway, and have fences tall enough they can't jump out.

[Le Taz Hot]

32. Ban professional dog breeding.

MILLIONS of unwanted animals are put to death every year because there are not enough homes for them. There is no reason on earth that professional dog breeding should exist.

[newfie11]

33. Please read #31

[Le Taz Hot]

34. I read it and it does not address

the issue I raised which was overpopulation. Overpopulation so onerous as to require MILLIONS of otherwise perfectly good animals to be put down for lack of available homes. Professional breeding only adds to the problem.

[kcr]

36. Agreed

When animals are a commodity, the bottom line matters most. There may be some who are in it for the love of the animals themselves but they have to turn a blind eye to the cruel suffering of the industry they're a part of, and ignorance isn't an excuse.

[newfie11]

39. Did u read what I posted above

My dogs are to be returned to me if owners cannot keep them.
They are not sold for breeding and I have that in my contract.
Lol the bottom line is not much if you are doing the right thing.
Stud fees $2000-$10000 to be paid by bitch owner.
Vet fees (AI) anywhere from $800-$5000 depending on fresh chilled semen or frozen.
If a C section is needed
$500-$1500 depending on vet and area
Then the puppy shots
Cardiology appt for pups, if lucky a fixed litter price of $1000.
All above paid by breeder
Sorry the bottom line if done correctly is below breaking even.

[kcr]

40. I did

You are not doing the right thing. I think you genuinely feel you are. But you are part of an industry that cruelly exploits animals. You even responded favorably and insist others read a post that perfectly illustrates the problems with it.

[newfie11]

43. Explain to me what I am doing to promote cruelty

You ban all dog breeding it will not stop idiots from letting their dogs run loose. It will not stop people from letting their dogs breed or convince people to neuter/spay.
What it will do is have lots of dogs of nondescript breeding/dispositions.
If u think mongrels are healthier think again. They can inherit health problems from ancestors.
No I'm not promoting cruelty and you are not thinking ahead to the utopia you have proposed.

It cannot be all or nothing! Again I say it can be regulated with common sense like German does.

[kcr]

45. I don't want to ban all dog breeding. That would be impossible.

I'm not talking about banning animals reproducing. I'm simply against breeding and selling animals for profit particularly for the attitudes you just expressed. There's no way I'm going to convince you that you don't exist in a bubble where your actions don't affect anyone else. You're going to keep breeding and selling dogs because you've convinced yourself it causes no harm. But that doesn't mean it isn't true. Lots of dogs with nondescript breeding/dispositions? Utter nonsense designed to absolve yourself. Those "mongrels" are no different than the dogs you sell. Their suffering is no less. They are not an inferior product.

[newfie11]

46. Your so far from reality that it doesn't matter to U what the truth is.

Last edited Sun Oct 5, 2014, 03:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Btw about my flooding the world with dogs,
I've had 3 litters in 11 years and none planned at this time.

I really don't care what u think. I've tried to educate u on what a reputable breeder does but your set on your opinion.

So enjoy!

[kcr]

52. Are you the only one who breeds dogs?

Your logic makes about as much sense as someone who litters saying they don't contribute much litter, so its okay for them to polllute. I'm glad you have no litters planned. I hope you'll consider never breeding any more in the future. Don't worry. It's very obvious you don't care what I or anyone else thinks.

[newfie11]

37. It would if there were laws such as in Germany

Where breeding is regulated.
Banning breeding all dogs will eliminate a huge gene pool.
But hey I'm old so when my dogs are gone and so am I the dog haters can go for it.
Btw I had 3 litters in my life. Not over populating the world with dogs.

[Le Taz Hot]

38. I was not advcating banning all breeding,

just professional breeding. We don't need it. If you want purebred there's no reason you can't hook up with another person wanting purebred breeding and make an arrangement. Maybe by permit with the stipulation that you've found homes for the puppies before the breeding process has begun.

Not sure who you are referring when you say "dog haters," but, just for the record, I love all animals and don't want to see them homeless, starving and put to death . I have cats (7) because that is what the cat goddess done brung me but I love dogs as well.

[MineralMan]

41. I don't think new laws are needed in most places.

Where I live, we have leash laws already. Dogs can't legally run loose at any time, except in off-leash dog parks. My two dogs, a beagle, and a beagle-basset mix are confined to a fenced yard or on leash when on walks at all time.

We also have licensing laws. All dogs are required to be licensed, vaccinated, etc.

It's not a lack of laws that is the problem. It's the lack of people following the laws that already exist and zero enforcement of those laws that are the problems.

Laws accomplish little unless they are enforced.

[newfie11]

44. Yes your right

Laws need to be enforced.
The AKC and breed clubs do enforce somewhat but local levels forget it.
Money is lacking as usual for that.
The FCI/DNK in Germany does the inspection of all Newf litters personally. Any complaints are followed up on.
Sadly this will never happen in this country.

[tabbycat31]

47. Please dispose of your dog's waste properly

I swear every recycling day, there's a dog owner who thinks my recycle bin (after it's been picked up) is the proper place to dispose of a bag of dog shit.

If you have a dog, you need to learn proper etiquette of disposing of its waste. This means your own home trash can or a public trash can. Not a private one.

[VScott]

50. Crazy owners and crazy dogs are a bad mix.

... "and they don't damage very much. They just pinch"

[napi21]

53. Mandatory neutering, mandatory rabies vaccine, leash law unless dog is inside a fenced yard.

The mandatory neutering would solve many of the overpopulation problems, and has already been adopted by all the rescues and shelters that I am aware of. Mandating rabies vaccine treatments would eliminate rabies in domestic pets. I understand many object to leash laws because "Their dog listens so well, he won't leave their property if told to stay." Yea, right. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "But he NEVER did that before!" as they weep for their little dogs life at the vet after their dog darted out into the street and was hit by a car! You can NEVER be sure. Leash laws are for the protection of the dog, as well as other people and pets.

I don't believe in weight restrictions. I've known too many small dogs who would attack anything or anyone without warning (and do severe harm), and too many large dogs who were nicer to people and other animals than most people are. Most of the time, the problem Is due to poor of non-existent training and socializing, but unfortunately, you can't force people to train their pets any more than you can force them to train their kids!

[GeorgeGist]

57. Owners must be responsible. eom

[rock]

59. I would insist that dog owners show as much care

and responsibility handling the dogs as gun-owners do their guns. Oops.