What, exactly, does it tell us about the Democratic Party...

[Ken Burch]

that, at this crucial moment, Paul Krugman, one of President Obama's most long-standing and eloquent critics from the Keynesian wing of the party's left, is defending the president and his record with greater force and effectiveness than any of his so-called "loyalists" among the Beltway establishment?

Please tell me I'm not the only person seeing the ironic weirdness of this.

[KingCharlemagne]

1. I hadn't realized the 'ironic weirdness' until just now when you mentioned it, but

you are definitely not alone. Thanks for noticing it!

In another ironically weird twist, that scalawag Rand Paul shows up in Ferguson, MO last Thursday . . . to bash police behavior towards people of color! Meanwhile the Democratic Party leadership and establishment stays mostly dead silent on the issue. I swear, you cannot make thsi shit up! (If this keeps up, methinks the urban black vote may no longer be a lock for Democrats. God, the irony were Paul -- son of that inveterate old racist Ron Paul -- to poach enough black votes to swing elections. It's enough to make me want to puke.)

[DonCoquixote]

2. especially one Ms.Hillary

If nothing else, regardless of what she plans to do in 2016, she OWES the Black Community for embracing her and her husband (aka "the first Black president.&quot

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. Rest assured ...

the African-American vote is firmly in the Democratic camp ... we recognize that while the lesser of two evils is still evil, the greater of those evils is still more evil.

The general consensus of the African-American community is F@#K Rand Paul ... we know they devil when we see him.

[KingCharlemagne]

11. I sure hope you are right (and I think you are for now). Rand Paul is a scalawag and

a demagogue but the silence of the Dem Party leadership is creating quite a vacuum in which a specimen like Paul can flourish.

The only thing I can ascribe it to is that Jay Nixon and Bob McCulloch are both Dems and the national party leadership doesn't want to take sides in a Ralph Yarborough-John Connally-type schism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Trust ...

Black folks have 50+ years of demagogue discernment experience.

[KingCharlemagne]

23. LOL. Thanks for that! :) (no text)

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. I should have said ...

50+ years of ELECTORAL demagogue discernment ... our discernment of those that show up to help us goes back much farther. And most times, smiling and nodding/clapping at the appropriate times, is not to be mistaken for being taken in.

[Cha]

20. Really.. Black Folk are exponentially smarter than Rand Paul's fawning showboating for his

presidential run 2 years from now.

[KingCharlemagne]

67. Yeah, I think I may have had a autonomic freakout at the thought

of that scalawag playing the role of 'civil libertarian' but I should have faith that his unctuous emptiness is as obvious to others as it is to me. Thanks for bracing me up!

[Cha]

68. You're Welcome, KC

[Fumesucker]

3. Krugman is a bit naive about politics I think

I suspect he doesn't realize that neither party really wants to win or lose a landslide election that ends the closely divided government, at this point divided government far more resembles a feature than a bug when you look at it from the point of view of the politicians.

[Marr]

5. Exactly.

I'll never forget how the Democratic leadership fell all over itself to manufacture reasons that they couldn't do anything about the right-wing legislation that just continued to march through the Congress after 2006. It was laughably transparent for awhile.

[rhett o rick]

9. It simulates democracy. nm

[geek tragedy]

12. the electorate is impossibly polarized, pols really don't have much to do with it.

there are virtually no persuadeable voters left.

elections depend on whose sporadic or discouraged voters actually show up

[Fumesucker]

13. And it's taken a lot of effort by the politicians and the M$M to get the electorate that way

You don't think this polarization happened by accident do you?

Most people really don't pay all that much attention to politics, I can think of only one other person I know in real life I can have a reasonably deep discussion of politics with and he isn't nearly up to speed like the average DUer and is more likely to vote Libertarian than Democratic or Republican.

[geek tragedy]

15. It's the collapse of the parties into proxies

for ideology and social identity. Elections are controlled by demographics largely. The white nationalist party has placed its bet on the base appeal of rightwing populism and the chronic unpopularity of government. The Democrats operate as a loose coalition as they always have.

Obama actually thought he could overcome that division. Voters and Republicans showed him how foolish that was in 2010.

What we have, in the absence of functioning institutions, is demographic trench warfare, where they hope to discourage or prevent our base from voting while we wait for theirs to die off.

[Fumesucker]

16. I'm reading David Halberstam's book "The Fifties" right now

It's really quite interesting, it's an easy read, more like a novel than a history but one of the things I'm getting out of it is that the Republicans have been resentful of Democrats since FDR and the New Deal.. The resentment and bitterness has done nothing but build up and fester for seventy five years or so now and at this point it's become a basic part of the Republican mind-set.

[geek tragedy]

21. It is still Nixon's party. nt

[woo me with science]

40. Excellent comments in this subthread...

and all over DU recently.

It's great to see you posting. I hope you are writing and teaching out beyond DU, too.

[Fumesucker]

70. Thanks, I like a lot of what you write too..

Most of my writing beyond DU is on technical stuff, my current projects are in electric vehicles and optimizing energy harvesting from solar photovoltaic arrays.

Just keeping up with DU can easily absorb as much time as you will allow yourself, I read several other places and very occasionally post but almost all my political posting is done here at the moment.

[BuelahWitch]

43. Just a nice, cushy job

Decent salary, lots of perks, good health care and pension benefits for little to no work.

[Maedhros]

58. Divided government gives everyone plausible deniability for screwing us over.

"What could WE do? The {other party} obstructs us at every turn!"

[Fumesucker]

60. Over on Discussionist there's right wingers that feel the same way, think the same thing

A few who will outright admit it and a lot who can't find an argument when someone posts.

It's like dropping a rock down a well so deep you never hear it hit bottom.

[Maedhros]

61. The people with real power in this country (indeed, the world) prefer to have

the rabble arguing amongst themselves, so that the depredations of those running the show never get noticed.

Pick a "liberal" web site - any one - and what do you see on the front page? Post after post mocking some Republican/Conservative/Journalist or other for some kind of outrageous gaffe. Here on DU, today, it's "SC Gov. Nikki Haley Gives Utterly Bizarre Reason For Keeping Confederate Flag". Useless nonsense. As if everyone on DU doesn't already know that Nikki Haley is a fool! Look at how many others there are:

Outrage Grows After Greg Abbott Insults Millions By Calling Disabled Americans “Props”

Why is this Hack Smiling?

Rick Scott Refuses to Debate Charlie Crist Because of a Small Fan

What do these posts accomplish? Nothing, really, except to get the Party Faithful whipped into a lather and keep them distracted from discussing actual issues. The same is true on the other side of the fence.

Keep us frothing at the mouth and attacking one another, then slip through things like the TPP when nobody is looking. And if someone complains, call them a Libertarian.

We've come to love the Two Minute Hate just a bit too much. For some of us, that's all there is.

[2banon]

75. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding! Ladies and Gents, We Have a Winner!

Absolutely SPOT F**king ON Maedhros!

[arcane1]

79. From the point of view of the media, too. Close races = campaign cash = ad-time purchases

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. It says we are far from ...

the post-racial America, many have attempted to convince themselves we have achieved.

[2banon]

52. Absolutely in agreement..

but then we already knew that despite the M$M tearfully falling all over themselves with that meme back in '08.

[sabrina 1]

7. Who do we care what one economist thinks 'at this critical time'?

I'm with George Carlin: 'It's a club and we ain't in it'.

Obviously Krugman is in that club. WE the PEOPLE need our own club.

That DC club has a limited membership but WE are the MAJORITY. So why does the majority continually obsess over what those who are in that small club think or say or do?

Someone explain this to me. The people have zero representation in DC it appears. Don't waste time trying to figure out why someone like Krugman has caved, just 'move forward' and keep the focus on the issues.

[rhett o rick]

10. Russell Brand has a new book out called, "Revolution". It isn't about violent revolution.

I am anxious to read it.

[calimary]

30. I liked something he said as a guest on Lawrence O'Donnell's show tonight.

"Socialism is the politics of Christianity." As in - the tenets of Christianity being about the GREATER GOOD. Whatever you do to the least of these. Love one another. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Turn the other cheek. And all that.

I was about to ask - what does some crazy long-haired wild-man comic actor from Britain know about socialism OR politics OR Christianity, but Somebody in early Christianity did also say - "let the little children come to Me".

I thought that statement was so cool and so spot-on and worth remembering that I wrote it down.

[rhett o rick]

44. Russell Brand is intelligent, articulate and most likely a genius. But none of those things

are necessary to preach what he preaches. Loving your neighbor and fighting inequality are really just common sense.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. Wow ...

"Krugman has caved" ... because he isn't promoting all bad, all the time?

The people have zero representation in DC it appears.

Bernie? Elizabeth? The Progressive Caucus? No?

[sabrina 1]

33. Wow, do you know how many members of Congress there are? The Senate?

I can count on my fingers the few who actually try to represent the people. Show me how successful they have been regarding Wall St Criminals eg.

I have a friend whose home was STOLEN by a big bank. Guess what she got after waiting for four years for some kind of justice? An offer of $800.00! That was how that agreement with the Banks turned out for their victims. A pittance, an insult was offered to them.

Guess how much the criminals got for stealing all those homes?? Do you remember?

Talk to me when we have more than a half a dozen elected officials who actually care about the People. We are not represented in DC, Corporate America is well represented thought.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. You said ...

The people have zero representation in DC it appears.

Did you not?

Talk to me when we have more than a half a dozen elected officials who actually care about the People.

This: http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/caucus-members/ is more than a half a dozen.

Or, are you saying that the Progressive Caucus isn't progressive enough?

[Jackpine Radical]

55. To answer your last question, the problem is

that they aren't NUMEROUS enough.

Sorta like being a Shiite pilitician in Iraq--permanently locked into minority status.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. I agree ...

that we need more progressive representation.

And we'll get them when we elect them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. (though Shiite politicians are actually the majority)

I presume you meant Sunni.

[Jackpine Radical]

73. Right you are.

Saddam was a Sunni, so they held power disproportionate to their numbers in those days.

[sabrina 1]

63. Yes, I AM saying the Progressive Caucus is not Progressive enough. Have you been paying

attention to them over the past few years?

Zero Representation is what I said and what I mean. When there are HUNDREDS of bought and paid for elected officials and, okay, let's go with 20 or so like grigalva who has NO RESPECT from the leadership of his own party, who try to represent the people, THAT = ZERO representation. Those few cannot get a bill that benefits the people passed in Congress. Not that some of them have not presented some good legislation, they have, but they CANNOT get enough sponsors to back them on anything worth while to the people.

THAT = Zero Representation. And why are at this point? Look back at the last several elections when there were plenty of good Progressives running. THEN LOOK AT WHO the Dem Leadership got behind! Please, you are talking to people who have been working their hearts out to try to get that representation for at least two decades now. DON'T underestimate how informed the voters are about exactly how things are run in DC.

We need a lot more than CRUMBS.

Tell me, what is going to happen to the Chained CPI once the election is over? To the so-called 'Free Trade Agreement'? How about the Pipeline? Fracking??? I know what is happening in MY state. I know we have a Dem Governor who has REPUBLICANS endorsing him. I'm not surprised. He would make a great Moderate Republican. I'm looking for a real Democrat. So once again, it's either Republican Lite or Republican.

We are not represented, period. Tell the Party to start getting behind Progressive Dems. That might help. Instead of backing Republicans like NJ Gov. Chris Christie. I remember all the excitement about that moron even here on DU. And over 60 Dems in NJ Betrayed the Dem Candidate and ENDORSED CHRISTIE.

So don't talk to us here, we didn't endorse any Republicans did we? Yet there is SILENCE on those Dems who betray their own candidates and endorse a Republican who was already VULNERABLE. We could have won that race. But NO, our elected Dems preferred the Republican.

Enough of this ... times are changing, we've had enough time to see how it all works now and it isn't as easy to play the 'my team' game anymore, as more and more Americans find themselves without homes, while the criminals are rewarded, without jobs, while the criminals send their jobs overseas, and the elderly are worried that the very people they elected are going to ATTACK THEIR SS benefits, which they WILL.

We heard all these arguments before, we fell for them, over an over.

NOW it is Election time and we the voters will NOT be quiet. THIS IS THE VOTERS TIME. The Corporations have their attention 99% of the time. For one day they have to worry about the voters, and you want the voters to be quiet and just hold their noses and VOTE.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Wow ...

tell me again how YOU are the base!

[HERVEPA]

27. Ignorant viewpoint on Krugman and politics in general

Same sex marriage is legal. All republicans and that never happens.
Push for minimum wage increase from Dems. Aint happening from Republicans.
Stop pushing the crap that there's no difference and that it doesn't matter.
It matters a lot. To poor folks and gays and many others.

[sabrina 1]

31. It matters to ME that Democrats act like Democrats when they are elected. It matters

to me how the poor, women, gays and minorities are treated. I am watching our so-called 'civilian police' killing African Americans, violating the rights of minorities every single day, bringing out Tanks and militarized weapons to silence protesters and I never, ever hear a word from those we elected.

We have war criminals running around pressuring for more war instead of sitting in prison for life where they belong.

We have Wall St criminals not only allowed to go free but obscenely rewarded for their crimes and by Democrats this time.

Don't tell me what I should be concerned about. I am a DEMOCRAT, I expect DEMOCRATS to put War Criminals in jail, to prosecute Wall St criminals especially when their crimes are so massive and so obvisous.

I am sick of this crap that we are told every election.

What are Dems going to do about SS? They've gone silent on the chained CPI I noticed since the election season began.

And FYI, THIS is when voters tell those asking for their votes what THEY, the VOTERS, expect of them.

Don't dare try to tell me to remain silent about issues that are of the utmost importance to the people. I know that is what the Corporate donors want us to do, just 'stfu and vote' for whoever they think will benefit them the most.

[liberal_at_heart]

32. "And FYI, THIS is when voters tell those asking for their votes what THEY, the VOTERS,

expect of them"

Amen.

[sabrina 1]

36. Amazing isn't it? The gall of people to come here and tell the voters to remain silent during the

ONLY time they are even semi interested in what the people have to say.

We don't have billions to offer them, we VOTES, period. So sick of this every election season, same old attacks on voters, instead of on those who should be getting an earful right now.

Do they really think the people are PRETENDING that things are as bad as they are for so many of them? Or is it that they don't care. And do they really think that if they just yell at voters, that will get them elected?

It's amazing, totally stunning frankly.

[liberal_at_heart]

39. Telling our elected officials who represent us what we want from them is a voting right I am

not willing to give up, nor will I give up the right to put pressure on those elected officials by voting them out of office if they don't represent me. Some call that blackmail. I call that voting. That is what voting is all about. Maybe people don't really understand what voting means anymore.

[sabrina 1]

62. Thank you, clearly you understand what democracy means. It seems that there are people

who view democracy as a game between two teams. And no matter what OUR team does, we are supposed to keep our mouths SHUT. Well we did that, for far too long. It's like a bad parent who spoils their child, leading them to believe they have a RIGHT to be the center of the universe when in reality, the world simply doesn't see their child that way. And one day when faced with the real world, that now grown up child can't handle it.

Those in the bubble of DC are so out of touch with the people it is simply shocking. And that is reflected in the kind of comments I responded to here. How dare they, is all I can say!!

[HERVEPA]

41. Nobody has told you to remain silent.

But to say both parties are the same is pure bullshit. The same Ralph Nader bullshit that got us George Bush and the Iraq war and all the damage that has been done to American and Iraq, and brought us the Isis crap now.
And yes, without Ralph's ego, Bush would not have been president, no matter how much you want to spin it.
Just because there where many reasons why Bush was "selected", doesn't mean that Nader alone wasn't a necessry and sufficient cause.

[liberal_at_heart]

42. I don't care if you think it is bullshit or not. I can think the two parties are the same if I want

and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it except bitch about it behind a computer screen.

[rhett o rick]

45. Saying that people are claiming "both parties are the same" is a bullcrap meme. It's a strawman

argument. I will say that many Democrat politicians vote the same as Republicans. That's a fact and it's not saying the parties are the same. The conservatives in both parties are the same.

And to blame Gore's loss on Ralph is pathetic. Mr. Nader didn't convince people that a new party was needed, he agreed with many that a new party is needed. You give Mr. Nader too much credit in your quest to find a scapegoat rather than face the facts. It's conservatives that are screwing up the Democratic Party. It's conservatives that want to abandon SS and Medicare. It's conservatives that fought against single payer. It's conservatives that want more and more wars. It's the conservatives that support H. Clinton and the Great American Aristocracy.

If the conservatives run H. Clinton against a conservative Jeb Bush, don't blame the left for the outcome.

Kick the conservatives out of our party, back to the Republican Party where they belong.

[sabrina 1]

80. 'Kick the Conservatives out of our party, back to the Republican Party where they belong'

Exactly! Some people apparently don't 'get' that we are not who we were ten years ago. 'Anyone but Bush' doesn't work anymore. We've seen the War and Wall St. Criminals not only walk free, but treated like elder statesmen/women. Back then we thought that kicking out the Repubs would pave the way to getting some accountability for those massive crimes against humanity. It is simply SHOCKING that it not only didn't happen, but that we are supposed to just 'move on'. Are they serious??

No way will the voters be responsible for any losses suffered by Dems. They can WIN IF they put their support behind REAL DEMS, which they have not done in election after election. If they continue to work against REAL DEMS, as they did in NJ when the party refused to back the actual Dem and dozens of them supported Christie, do they seriously think people will go along with the 'blame the voters' nonsense AGAIN?

[SidDithers]

37. Well said...nt

Sid

[upaloopa]

54. Only those in the club can do anything about

the issues. You can sit on the side if you want but you make yourself irrelevant.
You can post till your fingers bleed but that won't change shit. You have to work with what is there and not hope for that unicorn that farts glitter

[zappaman]

71. "Krugman has caved"

[world wide wally]

8. If Dems were an army, we would need rear view mirrors in our tanks so we could watch the war

[JI7]

14. Krugman has usually defended the President and been fair in his criticisms, you can't really

compare Krugman to elected officials who are worrying about their own elections.

[Jack Rabbit]

17. Krugman is an academic

He's going to get his salary from Princeton University no matter what he says about this, that or the other, so he calls it as sees it. One may agree or disagree, but Professor Krugman should be trusted to simply tell us what he thinks.

For Beltway politicians (don't dare call any of them of either party "loyalists&quot , it's every man for himself, especially between Labor Day and the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November of an election year. If any one of them praises his mother, I wouldn't take it at face value.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. +1. eom

[pampango]

29. And a smart, liberal one. I don't mistrust all academics. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. What you are seeing is people lining up to join Team Hillary....

And she's going to run as the anti-Obama.

[rhett o rick]

46. She is going to run for the conservative vote and why not? She is a conservative on most

issues. She supports the Great American Aristocracy and they will support her.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. Yup, and despite that I get the feeling the GOP is planning impeachment for her first term.

[rhett o rick]

48. I wouldn't be surprised. It's part of the Kabuki theater. The Oligarch Rulers

want a Democratic/Republican fight. While we watch they pick our pockets. I think the Oligarch Rulers helped Obama become president and then worked to neutralize him. They will do the same with HRC. Even though Goldman-Sachs and the Oligarch Rulers like HRC for most issues, they will keep her too busy fighting the Republicans to get any social programs passed.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. The MAIN thing they want off the table is tax increases on the rich....

If I had my way we would go back to the pre-"Trickle Down" rate of 70%.

They acted like a 3% increase was pure COMMUNISM.

[rhett o rick]

53. I think they are safe with either HRC or Jeb. They want their hands on SS and Medicare and

the Post Office.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. They almost got it under Obama's "Grand Bargain" but the Republicans were too greedy.

[2banon]

57. exactly so.. I'd add extremely disgusting and I believe a losing strategy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. She started pulling the Republican crap of purposely misunderstanding out of context comments....

That's when she lost my respect.

(Keeping in mind that I voted for Kucinich in the primary)

[2banon]

74. My heart was split between Kucinich and Edwards

Actually my heart was strongly for Kucinich, but I knew he didn't have a chance in hell with that bullshit U.F.O. meme I think floated by Clinton or the DLC gang. (don't remember now) so I donated to Edwards a number of times, until he fucked it up with his affair. Clinton had already campaigned in the south with her ridiculous and embarrassing pretense to connect with the Southern Black community in Alabama or Mississippi making a horrible attempt to speak in dialect. Just god awful.

Frankly I was stunned that her handlers allowed or encouraged her to do that and she did. Just another example of the LAME (for lack of a more stronger term) campaign stunts.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. The problem with the Clintons is they assume the cheap stunts Republicans use will work for them.

[2banon]

77. Agree on that point. Except to say that it isn't the only wrong with them. :)

But your point still stands..

[Spitfire of ATJ]

78. It's a sure sign that they need to get out more.

[loyalsister]

19. Not at all

My feeling is that they think they are making a smart political decision, and may not be cognizant of the fact that turning on Obama this way amounts to participation in the racist backlash that he has had to battle his entire presidency. It's shameful.

[rhett o rick]

49. Why would they care about " participation in the racist backlash that he has had to battle his

entire presidency."?? They want to win elections and think that appealing to conservatives will do it.

[loyalsister]

59. If someone actually thinks racism is wrong they wouldn't participate

even to win elections. They are compromising their integrity. It's not necessarily a winning strategy. Clinton should have learned that in 2008.

[rhett o rick]

69. How do you compromise your integrity when you have no integrity? H. Clinton made it clear

that she choose the Iraq invasion over integrity. She can now say she is sorry, but that doesn't return integrity. "Betray me once and shame on you. You don't get a chance to betray me twice."

In other words, she isn't worried about saving her integrity.

[Faux pas]

28. They don't have the courage of their

(supposed) convictions.

[joshcryer]

34. Krugman is reasonable?

[Stellar]

35. I can't seem to get my hand on the Rollingston Magazine...

I've look everywhere.

[2banon]

51. Scratching my head at this one too, Ken.. you're not alone.

gob-smacked with the absurdity and irony.