Nurses from Texas Presbyterian outline what happened with Duncan. Scary !

[mfcorey1]

Last edited Wed Oct 15, 2014, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)

http://news.yahoo.com/dallas-nurses-cite-sloppy-conditions-ebola-care-042120774.html

DALLAS (AP) — A Liberian Ebola patient was left in an open area of a Dallas emergency room for hours, and nurses treating him worked without proper protective gear and faced constantly changing protocols, according to a statement released by the nation's largest nurses' union.

Among those nurses was Nina Pham, 26, who has been hospitalized since Friday after catching Ebola while caring for Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person diagnosed with the virus in the U.S. He died last week.

Public-health authorities announced Wednesday that a second Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital health care worker had tested positive for Ebola, raising more questions about whether American hospitals and their staffs are adequately prepared to contain the virus.

The CDC has said some breach of protocol probably sickened Pham, but National Nurses United contends the protocols were either non-existent or changed constantly after Duncan arrived in the emergency room by ambulance on Sept. 28.

[femmocrat]

1. K & R

This will be a huge turning point in caring for highly contagious patients and in infection control protocol.

[TorchTheWitch]

19. at the expense of peoples' lives and ENTIRELY unnecessary

You don't play guinea pig with peoples' lives while ignoring the experts telling you that treating a biosafety level 4 infected patient with level 2 protocols with a woefully unprepared hospital and untrained, unsupervised, inexpert staff when hospitals look to you (the CDC) for correct direction and guidance is willful negligence at BEST.

Oh yeah, let's use Ebola as a learning opportunity! Let's toss some Ebola infection around a hospital and see what happens! Let's put unsuspecting staff hovering over an Ebola patient having explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting without full head to toe protection or disinfection and see what happens! Spin the wheel! Place your bets!

[mucifer]

2. Why didn't the CDC descend on them like JACHO and tell them what to do?

[Tommymac]

20. No Surgeon General to provide leadership? Why isn't President Obama demanding action here?

This would be the game breaker for an October surprise.

Demand Congress get their butts back to DC and approve his nominee for Surgeon General. Put the blame on them as to why there is no leadership developing and co-ordinating processes on a Federal level.

Using this, along with the 'Republican Cuts Kill' meme, we can still take control of the elections - but only if it is done NOW.

[TorchTheWitch]

21. They DID

The CDC gave inadequate protocols for a biosafety level 4 virus infected patient, didn't monitor or supervise what was happening and assured the hospital that's all they needed, and everything would be just dandy. This is why the CDC did an about-face after this epic cluster-fuck and decided that Ebola patients should be cared for by expert teams of caregivers flown in though that doesn't solve the problem of the makeshift inadequate Ebola ward made from the ICU or the handling of infection samples, disposal of infectious waste, etc.

Experts kept telling them they were screwing it up and the CDC poo-pooed them all.

The CDC has proven themselves to be unbelievably inept when there's no reason on earth they should be. They're worse than a layperson with the internet and a couple of hours to kill researching. Plenty of us here knew how the CDC was screwing up, but the so-called nation's experts have feet of clay while getting huge paychecks and still trying to cover their ineptitude.

[uponit7771]

36. "...They're worse than a layperson with the internet and a couple of hours to kill researching..."

...Now I'm sKeered (or concerned) ...

after hearing that the 2nd person caught something I thought the exact same thing....

[KingCharlemagne]

45. The thing that takes the cake is that they have the chutzpah to attack

workers, i.e., nurses, when they aren't fit to launder those workers' uniforms (imo). Bunch of paper-shuffling bureau-technocrats. There are members on this site (on other threads) calling for the nurses to be fined or even punished with death sentences. I swear, you cannot make this shit up.

You might enjoy this interview with David Graeber on the issue of pay for meaningless work issue:

http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/bullshit-jobs.html#.VD8ttGdRnIV

[hedgehog]

23. Maybe because the CDC doesn't have the authority to do that?

[riqster]

26. Maybe because the fucking Repubes cut their Goddamned budgets?

[James48]

28. (this one- ^^^^^^^)

[freshwest]

41. You win the thread!

[magical thyme]

3. just got an email from my lab manager

she's going down to our main hospital for Ebola training. They had a suspicious patient the other day (released yesterday after testing negative.) They wore complete coverings and some staff also had separate,filtered air supplies under their hoods.

We're all to be scheduled within a week or two for our annual mask fitting.

[The empressof all]

4. Gov Perry was in Europe

Where was the state oversight in licensing and regulating standards and trainings. I use to be in healthcare administration and I know the states I worked in inspected and enforced standards of compliance.

[Tatiana]

5. I believe this hospital was negligent.

If they were unable to care for the patient and provide their medical staff with adequate safety, they should have conveyed that information to the CDC. Perhaps a crisis team was not dispatched to the hospital because in their communication with the CDC, the hospital administration indicated they could handle the situation.

I don't think we should put more health care workers at risk. Ebola patients should be sent to one of the 4 hospitals (maybe Emory or Nebraska) that are truly trained to deal with an infectious virus like ebola.

[Little Star]

13. +1

[hamsterjill]

30. Another +1

Only adding that I think the CDC bears some responsiblity for making SURE the claims of the hospital that it had things under control were legitimate.

There is no room for error here. Check and recheck, and then check again.

[Tatiana]

38. Absolutely. That was one of their biggest mistakes.

It's Texas (I was born there and lived there, so I think I can say it.). Gov. Perry was bragging about how Texas was the best place for an ebola patient to be, but that was clearly not true.

The CDC should have dispatched a team to ensure the hospital administration and staff demonstrated mastery of effective precautions. No hospital should just be "trusted."

I do think they've learned their mistake, unfortunately.

[riverwalker]

6. yup

told ya

[riverwalker]

7. this is the most troubling

Nurses treating Duncan were also caring for other patients in the hospital

[hamsterjill]

32. That's very concerning, isn't it?

It would seem elementary to me that anyone caring for Duncan should not have gone on to care for other patients. Good grief!

[irisblue]

33. why didn't mgmt have dedicated care staff for Mr Duncan?

Limit access to a core group of lab staff, xray technologists, respiratory therapists, house keeping, nursing ,doctors and getting visited 3/4 times a day by the Infectious Disease dept manager who would provide on site training and answering questions by the staff. foolishness

[uppityperson]

42. $. eom

[HockeyMom]

8. Try Security too

All hospitals aren't the same with that either. I was in one hospital where you were met by a big, burly security guard. You had to go to the receptionist, show legit ID, sign your name, who you were visiting, and she gave you a Visitors Tag. Unit floor doors were all locked. You had to get on the intercom, say who you were visiting, wait, and then they would buzz you in. Elevators? They had "staff" elevators which could only be used with an ID card.

Another hospital anyone could just walk in. No security. Receptionist paid no attention to anyone coming in. Take any elevator. No staff only elevators. Locked doors? Nope. I got totally lost going from unit to unit. Went all around alone. Actually, ended up in a different building (never going outside). Unless I stopped a nurse or doctor to ask for directions, they all ignored me.

If there could be this much difference in just security, I can believe that the conditions, and procedures, could also be totally different in different hospitals.

Edit. I should mention that these two hospitals were in different states. From my Avatar you can probably guess where one hospital was.

[SheilaT]

29. Local culture matters a lot.

I worked at the one and only hospital in Santa Fe for four and a half years, first doing out patient registration, then three and a half years on the information desk.

Volunteers, most of whom are at least 70, staff the information desk from 8 a.m. to 4 p. m. when a paid employee (that was me) took over. Weekends the desk was open 9 a. m. to 8 p.m. and a paid "per diem" employee works there.

The volunteers are nice people, and their willingness to volunteer is quite touching, but in the 21st century those are not the people who should be the first person anyone coming into the hospital sees. I said that over and over in my time there, and was basically told to shut up, because one, the hospital (supposedly non-profit but they make plenty of money) wasn't about to have to pay anyone if people were willing to work for free and two, somehow the volunteers were supposedly instrumental in fund-raising and so we couldn't hurt their feelings. Almost no volunteers were actually involved in any of that, so far as I could tell.

There are supposed to be age limits on who can visit but as far as I could tell that was never enforced except in our ICU. There are also supposed to be set visiting hours, but they were largely ignored. The other thing -- and this will matter a LOT if Ebola gets out there, or if any other highly contagious and deadly disease gets loose -- is that when the locals go to the hospital for any reason they tend to bring along all of the family, which is such a fabulous way to spread disease. The little babies and kids get brought in to visit whoever is in the hospital, and when the go to the ER everyone is along. I'd be told not to mind, because Santa Feans are very family oriented. Their families have been here (supposedly which is another issue) four hundred years, and everyone is related to everyone else.

A few years ago when SARS was such a concern, there actually was an attempt to limit visitors, which was mildly successful. Unfortunately, it didn't take long for the excess of visitors and family members to go back to the usual.

I know I can't speak for any other hospitals, but this one is chronically short-staffed. I am also greatly disturbed by the fact that all of the nurses seem to work a ten or twelve hour shift. No one is as alert and focussed at the end of nine or eleven hours as at the beginning. In any job. Nursing can be a very stressful one, and various medical protocols are quite picky and need to be followed perfectly.

Security. Our security guys are for the most part good at what they do. I called on them for various things and they were always terrific. But it's possible to walk into any one of the units, and the way most of them are designed you could get to a patient's room without every go past the nurses station. If I were designing a hospital, that station would be the very first thing on every unit, and every visitor would be vetted. Age rules would be enforced, and the number of visitors would be limited.

Maybe because for the very most part hospitals are safe and most people come out better than they went in, that people don't take them as seriously as they should.

[librechik]

9. most scary is that this is common across US--hospitals understaffed,underfunded, untrained.

That's what happens in a profit-based system. The priorities are all wrong.

[riqster]

27. Damn right. Profit needs removed from the equation.

[deutsey]

10. More from today's Democracy Now!

In a conference call Tuesday, the union’s co-president Deborah Burger said nurses at the Dallas hospital described having to use medical tape to secure openings in their flimsy garments, and were worried that their necks and heads were exposed as they cared for a patient with explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting. We are joined by the co-president of National Nurses United, Karen Higgins, who works as an intensive care unit nurse in Boston, and hear from Democracy Now! co-host Juan González, who reports on the nurses’ concerns in his latest column for the New York Daily News.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/15/as_second_dallas_nurse_diagnosed_with


"This is an international humanitarian and health crisis," says Lawrence Gostin, university professor and faculty director at the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University. Gostin says privatized healthcare has undermined the U.S. response to Ebola, with a lack of available vaccines and access to proper care. "Much of our innovation is driven by the private sector, and from their point of view, Ebola was not a predictable disease and those who got Ebola were too poor to pay for it."

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/15/infected_workers_slow_deployment_no_vaccines

[Cha]

11. So what kind of site is the Blaze, mfcorey? Not saying the story isn't accurate but, it is

a rw site?

[mfcorey1]

12. LOL! Had not paid much attention to the source this particular reference. A solid

red propaganda site. Peace

[Cha]

15. I thought it sounded familiar.. Then I was looking at some of the other stories.. about

rush Limbaugh and Michelle Obama's lost son.

I did something like that once and got told to get another source.

Peace to you and Aloha~

[mfcorey1]

24. Updated it and made necessary changes. Peace

[Cha]

39. YOu're

Welcome!

[etherealtruth]

18. Try this link ...same info no Glen Beck

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/10/15/dallas-nurses-cite-sloppy-conditions-in-ebola-care/20978279/?icid=maing-grid7|maing9|dl1|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D545879

[mfcorey1]

22. Thanks!

[Bluenorthwest]

14. The Blaze is Glenn Beck's site.

nt

[Erose999]

16. I've read reposts on other sites that say Duncan was not kept in isolation, nurses were not given

protective gear, infection control protocols were not followed, etc.

as far as the Lonesome Roads Beck site goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Cha]

17. Yes, it's an AP article. We just don't give those sites clicks.

[freshwest]

43. It is the propaganda site of Glennbeckistan. Stop being such a hater!!!

I'm sure I don't need a icon for you, but just in case.

[calimary]

25. That's what you can probably expect to get from - as Joy Reid texted yesterday -

(AND I THINK IT BEARS REPEATING) "a private hospital in a red state."

We do have to look at THAT. HARD! A "private hospital" means a FOR PROFIT hospital. That means their PRIORITY is not healing or treatment so much as generating profit. That is their PRIORITY. Keep costs down and profits up. And there are LOTS of fun ways to keep costs down. Keep hiring and staffing to a minimum. Keep supplies at a minimum. Hey, stockpiling costs money. MINIMUM! Do you know what that's gonna COST????? And you really don't NEED it anyway, NUTHIN's gonna happen. What could possibly go wrong?

NEVER put the bean counters in charge of ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

That's what deregulation and the "free market" did for the industry I used to love (radio. Well, broadcasting in general.) Fucked it in the ass. Now radio as we knew it is dying, unable to respond to changing market conditions as the only solution from higher up the corporate pyramid is - cut costs. CUT! CUT CUT CUT!

That's the republi-CON way. Penny-wise/pound-EXTREMELY-FOOLISH. "Republican Cuts KILL." (MAN, is THAT ever a meme that should be spread! Even faster than Ebola, if you ask me!)

http://agendaproject.org/give/

Death panels, anyone? Let's talk about YOURS, reince preibus. That big one YOU sit at the top of.

[uponit7771]

37. "a private hospital in a red state." AMEN!

[freshwest]

44. Needs to go viral. No Medicaid expansion says Rick the Hair Perry!

Rick only has one solution to every problem. Bang!

Too bad he lost his right to carry because of being indicted!

[tclambert]

31. How do you know someone has Ebola when they first come into the hospital?

The Ebola protocols wouldn't go into effect until AFTER the patient had undergone numerous tests. Plenty of opportunity to catch it before the dreadful diagnosis. Hell, the guy could have sat in a crowded waiting room for hours.

[snagglepuss]

40. People should be advised that anyone who has come from affected areas and

displaying symptoms even fever should call a hospital in advance to let them prepare and also use an ambulance, and to do the same with the ambulance , let them know that drivers and attendents needs to be taking all necessary precautions.

[840high]

34. k/r

[on point]

35. This is a 'heck a of a job Brown' moment.

It is obvious they are doing it on the cheap, always just a little less than what is required. They need to over do this in order to stop it. That includes isolating people until clear they are not infected, and not just watching them. They sure as hell shouldn't be allowing them to wander around city and country

Comandeer a motel, keep them there and take care of them. That would be much cheaper than chasing after new infected patients and washing down shopping centers after the fact , or planes.

Wake up fools