How about if you have a fever....

[peace13]

You stay away from other people?! New rule. The airlines will issue refunds for people who are not fit to fly. We have become so self absorbed in this country that many do not care who they infect with what! We are not fit to police ourselves on this one.

This nurse who was not smart enough to follow through with quarantine after handling a patient with a deadly communicable disease and showed total lack of concern for everyone is a prime example of this attitude. I don't care what the CDC told her. She should have used her own good sense and stayed away from others. This selfish behavior has got to stop. If it doesn't, some organization in our society will have to make it stop. There is no option to fail here.

I read the comment that sometimes when people are sick they don't think straight. If that is the case then we need to have a place where people who have been exposed can stay during quarantine. Mandatory quarantine should be issued. It appears voluntary quarantine is not a concept that Americans understand. Our smug response of how much better we are than those in Africa and that this could not happen here, well it sure looks like we are doing a bang up job. Even the health care workers are doing their part to spread this thing!

We are just too selfish and self centered to handle this situation. It's just not going to happen.

[NightWatcher]

1. Ebola or not, I'm a fan of sick people staying home

I have a nonexistent autoimmune system and do not appreciate it when people think they are somehow sucking it up by going to work or out in public. Spreading whatever illness you have is not doing society any favors. If you are sick, stay away from the rest of us who don't want to catch what you've got. I realize people have to do things, but whenever possible they don't need to be out spreading their germs.

[peace13]

7. Exactly!

God knows who she came in contact with. Anyone undergoing chemo or folks such as yourself do not need the exposure. I am allergic to the flu shot so I am very careful during flu season. So many people just assume that everyone will get it or has it already! They just don't care!

[KingCharlemagne]

25. Your prescription (npi) would make sense if our society had something resembling, oh I don't know,

a Guaranteed Annual Income or even mandatory paid sick leave.

But it's so much easier to keep a stratum of poor and marginalized citizens. Indeed capitalism thrives on maintaining just such a supply to drive down wages.

This is an unintended consequence of capitalism, totally predictable. Anyone read to toss over capitalism yet?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

2. the only way to make this work for the population as a whole

is guaranteed sick days from work. too many people simply cannot miss work even for a day or two without serious problems...

sP

[marions ghost]

6. Right--encourage taking time off by providing paid sick days

[MineralMan]

3. That's a great idea, but will never be implemented.

For one thing, holiday travel would become a real problem. At Thanksgiving and Christmas, it's guaranteed that people who have the flu and who are infectious are on every plane flown by the airlines. It's the height of flu season, and that holiday travel is one of the ways flu gets spread to every nook and cranny town in America.

With the flu, you don't even have to have symptoms to spread the virus. Also, flu has a very rapid onset, so someone who is asymptomatic when boarding the plane may be shedding the virus by the time the plane lands.

That's why getting a flu shot is such a good idea. We don't stay home when we're sick. It's unlikely we ever will. It's not in our nature. Visiting Grandma and Grandpa is a high priority, so the airlines are jammed full with sneezy, coughing people during the holidays. That's not going to change. I guarantee it.

[peace13]

10. Not so sure that grandma and grandpa appreciate the exposeure...

but..go on. I spent five years taking care of my sister and I am certain that the facility she lived in would frown on your cavalier attitude.

[MineralMan]

12. It's not my attitude. If I'm sick, I don't travel.

But I also know that what I do isn't typical. I don't get the flu, because I get my flu shot. I'm still flying during the holidays, though, since any time I visit my 90 year old parents could be the last time. So, I get to see lots and lots of sneezing and coughing people on the plane. I'm not talking about what I would do. I'm talking about what people in general do.

But, if I am sick, I cancel my travel plans and reschedule. Always.

[PasadenaTrudy]

32. I don't travel sick either.

It's not fair to others and I feel miserable as well. I once cancelled a trip to Kauai due to illness. Oh well!

[alarimer]

15. I have gotten sick while on a flight.

I was fine on the ground, but starting getting cold symptoms while in the air. By the time we landed, it was full-blown. I don't know the incubation period for a cold, but if you are asymptomatic, why shouldn't you fly? In this case, I was on my way home from somewhere. If I had not flown, I would have been stuck wherever I was. Nobody can afford that either. So it's really not that simple as "Don't fly when you're sick."

But the issue is also to do with lack of sick days, as you pointed out. But also the fact that airfares are non-refundable generally. That's potentially a lot of money you'll be out if you don't go. I'm sure that's the calculation most people make. If airlines (and the government) truly want sick people not to fly, they need to make it easier to get your money back. You also can't impede people's right to travel freely without some measures in place to provide alternatives, should they be stuck away from home.

Freedom of movement has been recognized as a fundamental right, and it would take a real national emergency of some kind before you can infringe on that right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law). I'm not saying what that nurse did was right, but she probably made the same calculation that everybody else makes. Very irresponsible, considering what she had possibly been exposed to. But also some denial there, I suspect. The absolutely only way to guarantee that this disease does not spread to the general population is to lock up everyone who has been exposed or potentially exposed. I don't think we want that to happen. I can't imagine that health care workers would voluntarily treat people with ebola, if they were then going to be incarcerated, even if temporary. Look at Typhoid Mary, incarcerated her entire life.

Balancing civil rights with public safety is a lot easier when we have a vaccine or a treatment, which we do not yet have for ebola.

[MineralMan]

19. Of course it's impossible to predict that you'll get ill during a flight.

Your other statements make a lot of sense. The few times I've cancelled my travel plans due to illness, I've paid the fee to change my flight to another date. The tickets are non-refundable, but the flight can be rescheduled if you pay the change fee. You can also purchase flight change insurance when you buy the ticket. It's cheaper than the flight change fee, but doesn't make a lot of sense, because you usually don't need to change a flight.

In any case, I'm not really talking about myself or others who wouldn't fly when ill. I'm talking about all of those who won't change or cancel a flight. They make up the majority of people, I think, based on the number of hacking and sneezing people I hear on most flights I've been on. People fly when they need to fly, and a minor illness generally won't stop them from flying.

So, I make it my own responsibility to protect myself as much as possible from catching something when I fly. Only a very few times have I caught a cold from a flight, or anything else. I do a lot of hand sanitizing on planes and avoid touching my face unless I've just cleaned my hands. That's about all it takes, although a sneezing, coughing person in the seat next to you is sometimes unavoidable.

The bottom line is that, for many reasons, there are no real controls in place to keep people who are sick from flying. I don't expect there to ever be such controls, really. We can check people from areas where infectious diseases are epidemic, I suppose, but that's not particularly effective, really.

Life's a crapshoot.

[peace13]

20. I understnad.

The issue is the nurse traveling after direct exposure to ebola. Irresponsible yes but it really goes further than that. She knowingly traveled with syptoms. Bad form is pretty much an understatement.

With regard to T. Mary, I am pretty sure that the quarantine time for the disease that we are talking about is not an indefinite time. If it is 21 days then that is a small price to pay to stop this disease in it's tracks.

[KingCharlemagne]

27. She DID NOT 'knowingly travel with symptoms.' WTF? She had a 0.9-degree elevated

temperature (99.5), which doesn't even qualify as a 'fever'.

The CDC cleared her for travel AFTER SHE CALLED THE CDC SEEKING GUIDANCE

How about getting your facts straight before bashing yet another worker?

[peace13]

34. She traveled during her quarantine....

that is the only fact that any of us is certain of.

[dilby]

4. How about if you are projectile vomiting and have explosive diarrhea you don't fly.

It's cold season right now, everyone who has contracted Ebola was in direct contact with someone who was vomiting and had explosive diarrhea. You are not going to contact Ebola by sitting next to someone with a cough and slight fever.

[peace13]

8. Let's go back to the cold thing.

If a person is flying with any contagious disease they should wear a mask and take precautions to protect the other passengers. No one should fly with a fever. It is pure selfishness!

To you, it is a cold, to me a simple cold will light up my asthma and I could get in serious trouble. You of course will have arrived at your destination and on your way to recovery as I slip into the throws of something that could result in life threatening circumstances.

Now back to the Ebola. Ill people have been known to vomit in public and explosive diarrhea knows no altitude. Just saying. Is it possible or probable, that is a favorite question in my home. Where an epidemic is concerned I think it is best to ere on the conservative side. That is, if we want to control this thing.

[dilby]

9. 2 people who were in direct contact with bodily fluids have caught it.

I think it's safe to say you will be just fine on you airplane ride. Unless the person next to you vomits on you.

[MineralMan]

13. If the common cold is a serious health risk for you,

I'd suggest that you wear a mask and take those other precautions. I can guarantee that someone on every flight is going to have at least a cold. Since you can't be sure they'll take the precautions, it's going to be up to you to do so. The reality is that people fly when they have an infectious illness. Pretty much every flight has a few people on it who are shedding some sort of virus.

If such minor illnesses can cause serious problems for you, then you really should be taking all precautions to protect yourself. There's no guarantee that others will do that to protect you.

[REP]

26. Absolutely. You can't ask the world to manage your condition.

I'm one of those people for whom there is no thing as "just" a cold. As much as I'd like to, I can't control the world; only myself. Frequent hand washing is a super cheap way up the chances of staying well, as is good hydration (don't forget the sinuses!), keeping current on vaccines, getting decent rest, shopping at off-peak hours, etc. Yes, it's almost maddening to realize when I realize I've been caught in a small space with someone who has something much worse than a cold ... but sometimes, even sick people have to go out and get food or tissues.

[peace13]

35. Thank you for the concern.

I don't fly but I have had family members who traveled during chemo and trust me, unmasked cougher's are a concern. One would think that the sick people would have to protect others and not vice versa. I fail to see your logic, not saying it is wrong but ...I just can't see it.

[Katashi_itto]

24. Only if you have both simultaneously

[hughee99]

5. Should people who regularly deal with deadly communicable diseases

be permanently quarantined?

[peace13]

14. There is protocol and it should be followed. My guess is ...

that it is followed or we would see more of this kind of thing with other diseases.

In this situation it appears that the problem originates with the term 'voluntary quarantine'. The person is voluntarily agreeing to be away from people for 21 days, as was the case with the the person from NBC who was out to dinner during her voluntary quarantine. She thought it was voluntary so she did what she wanted, basically un volunteered when she got bored. Personally I think in the case where people have been exposed to the virus it should be mandatory quarantine otherwise you have no quarantine and I am pretty sure that is not working out so well.

The Texas nurse had handled bodily fluids from an infected person yet, somehow she did not feel the need to voluntarily quarantine herself. Go figure.

[dumbcat]

11. At what temperature

do you have a fever? Give me a number that TSA should enforce without exception. Or should it be left to the "common sense" of individual TSA screeners?

[peace13]

16. This is a societal issue.

In Canada for example, you will see signs educating people about not spreading diseases. An example: A sign in the restroom with a picture of a woman on the toilet using her cell phone. The caption is something to the tune of 'Where are you spreading your virus'? Similar to the hand washing signs that we have in the US regarding food service folk only speaking to the entire population about various safety measures that will protect everyone.

If Americans are happy spreading everything, everywhere then so be it. Let folks board a plane with drippy eyes and blazing fevers. Take ownership in the results because we will get what we ask for. We already are.

[dumbcat]

21. So what is the number?

Your OP seemed to advocate people with a fever were not fit to fly. Who will decide this? And who will enforce it? Or was your OP just a rant without a lot of forethought?

[peace13]

22. If a person has been exposed to a deadly disease that the CDC ...

has a prescribed quarantine for then I don't care what the person's temperature is. He/she should stay out of the public spaces and away from other people. That is what quarantine means. As for other people who travel while they have the flue/cold without wearing a mask then they are simply selfish. I would say that they should decide what temp is too high but I know the answer.

It's really pretty simple.

[dumbcat]

23. Your OP was about people traveling with a fever.

The goalposts seem to be morphing.

It's not really pretty simple.

I'm done.

[peace13]

36. I did address the nurse within the post.

Maybe we should have more characters in the title and then things would be more clear to you. It appears she did have a fever on at least one leg of her trip.

[REP]

30. Usually, 100F

This is not a CDC guideline for anything; this is just the number at which one is considered to no longer have an elevated body temp but an actual fever. It can vary with the individual; I'm considered to have a fever by my doctors at 99F as my normal temp is 96.3, but without someone's history, 100F is the number.

[magical thyme]

17. I've just recovered from weeks of feeling not quite right

only to discover that the person who sits near me at one of my 2 jobs was coming to work with a fever for days.

It really pisses me off when people do that. She's full time and gets sick pay. So use it already.

[liberalmuse]

28. That really doesn't work in America.

At most jobs, you are expected to be at work unless you can't get out of bed. No doctor's note is going to excuse me from my current workplace. If I miss so many days, I'm gone. But yes, in a civilized country where money doesn't trump humanity, sick people with a temperature most certainly should stay home.

[valerief]

29. I wonder just how many people would lose their jobs for not showing up

to work. This is America, a corporation-socialist country, not some labor-socialist country.

[REP]

31. Too many

But any is too many.

Could the silver lining in this Ebola scare cloud be that this country finally realizes the importance of sick days? That they really are a public health issue?

[valerief]

33. What people realize and what the PTB do are two different things.

They WILL NOT lose money. If that means, non-rich people have to be taxed even more, so be it. After all, WAR MONEY WILL NEVER BE DIVERTED. That would mean rich people would lose money.

[ZombieHorde]

37. Capitalism makes your proposal less likely.

Airlines don't care for returned tickets. They'll likely say some people will lie about having a fever so they can get a full refund. The compromise might be a doctor's note for the refund. Those who can't afford to go the doctor, or just hate doctors, won't get the note, and may just fly anyway.

Or maybe airlines would just hire people to take everyone's temperatures before they board, but the airlines might lose a lot of money this way.