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B2G

(9,766 posts)
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 11:56 AM Oct 2014

Dallas Nurse Infected With Ebola to Be Transferred to NIH

Good. Should have done this from the start.

**************************************************

Thursday, Oct 16, 2014 • Updated at 11:41 AM EDT

The first nurse to become infected with the Ebola virus in the United States is expected to be transferred from Dallas to NIH in Bethesda, Maryland, a federal government official with direct knowledge of the plans told NBC News.

Nina Pham, a Texas Christian University nursing school graduate, contracted Ebola while caring for Thomas Eric Duncan. The 26-year-old Pham helped care for Duncan from the day he was placed in intensive care at Dallas Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital until the day before his Oct. 8 death, NBCDFW.com reports.

Pham and other health care workers wore protective gear, including gowns, gloves, masks and face shields -- and sometimes full-body suits -- when caring for Duncan, but she became the first person to contract the disease within the United States.

Pham was upgraded to good condition Tuesday and remained good Wednesday, Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas said. She will be transported from Dallas to NIH's isolation unit in Maryland.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Nurse-Infected-With-Ebola-to-Be-Transfered-to-NIH-279432452.html

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dallas Nurse Infected With Ebola to Be Transferred to NIH (Original Post) B2G Oct 2014 OP
That's a good thing. Little Star Oct 2014 #1
We need our states to regulate our hospitals to make certain our hospitals are prepared Tweedy Oct 2014 #2
the State Departments of Health riverwalker Oct 2014 #5
How to explain it? Tweedy Oct 2014 #7
Maybe you should have gone to that department's website MineralMan Oct 2014 #8
I'm not talking now riverwalker Oct 2014 #10
notice the dates of all the updates riverwalker Oct 2014 #14
And I was supposed to know that how, exactly? MineralMan Oct 2014 #17
On Oct 6 riverwalker Oct 2014 #22
I did riverwalker Oct 2014 #16
And now the site reflects updated information. MineralMan Oct 2014 #21
It's not "hindsight" riverwalker Oct 2014 #24
can do without riverwalker Oct 2014 #20
It's October 16th now. MineralMan Oct 2014 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author riverwalker Oct 2014 #46
I'm afraid the consequences of that YarnAddict Oct 2014 #12
Hospitals need to be able to deal with outbreaks Tweedy Oct 2014 #25
It's a problem YarnAddict Oct 2014 #26
Flu Tweedy Oct 2014 #27
no they don't TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #35
Confusion Tweedy Oct 2014 #37
the CDC provided incorrect protocols TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #47
What? Tweedy Oct 2014 #48
Oh dear Lord! TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #49
Trying to make a point Tweedy Oct 2014 #51
The CDC is involved in many countries in the world Marrah_G Oct 2014 #53
Yes, but they don't have authority in other countries TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #54
First mistake Tweedy Oct 2014 #38
Texas Health care system FAIL notrightatall Oct 2014 #3
CDC fail as well B2G Oct 2014 #4
Nope, this one's on Texas. notrightatall Oct 2014 #9
Bullshit B2G Oct 2014 #13
Didn't say anything of the sort. notrightatall Oct 2014 #18
Maybe zero mortality Tweedy Oct 2014 #39
Yup, it's all on TEXAS. notrightatall Oct 2014 #40
Don't know about that without more info Tweedy Oct 2014 #43
I'm being a "tad" hyperbolic ................. notrightatall Oct 2014 #44
Should have realized Tweedy Oct 2014 #45
You need to listen to the whistleblower nurse TexasMommaWithAHat Oct 2014 #55
That hospital did not try, sent him home, did not require pp for 2days. notrightatall Oct 2014 #56
Knowing how hospitals work, this is mostly on the attending physician, imo. TexasMommaWithAHat Oct 2014 #59
I think more on admin. notrightatall Oct 2014 #60
Cdc has done its job Tweedy Oct 2014 #41
Well, just a couple of days YarnAddict Oct 2014 #15
No, not OK. notrightatall Oct 2014 #28
It's a national problem YarnAddict Oct 2014 #31
Mostly a Texas induced National problem, at this point. notrightatall Oct 2014 #32
Well, maybe the problem YarnAddict Oct 2014 #33
He did not lie to the TEXAS hospital who sent him home, sentencing him to death. notrightatall Oct 2014 #34
He told about his travel history on the first visit, from reports I read. moriah Oct 2014 #50
As he stated on his deathbed, he thought he was helping a woman who might be having Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #52
+1 000 000 000 000 000 kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #30
Only if you believe cdc is omnipotent Tweedy Oct 2014 #19
Leaving on a jet plane. GeorgeGist Oct 2014 #6
Again notrightatall Oct 2014 #11
Good. IMHO her life was at risk in TH Pres. They are not capable of safely treating Ebola cases. kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #29
Not to mention the risk to nurses, doctors and other patients. bklyncowgirl Oct 2014 #62
Which is why I DID mention staff safety in my post. kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #66
How about some media outlet slamming Rick Perry for his poor response JCMach1 Oct 2014 #36
He gets indicted on felony charges and we get crickets. notrightatall Oct 2014 #42
Not only that, didn't he take a foreign trip as all this shite was hitting the fan? JCMach1 Oct 2014 #67
Yes, we went to euro-Disney notrightatall Oct 2014 #68
her blood is gold nt DeadEyeDyck Oct 2014 #57
Yes. She is on the road to recovery JimDandy Oct 2014 #58
That is a very premature statement TexasMommaWithAHat Oct 2014 #61
All the US patients survived who were given transfusions containing the Ebola antigen JimDandy Oct 2014 #63
Not according to an infectious disease specialist TexasMommaWithAHat Oct 2014 #64
Again, 100% Ebola survival rate in the US JimDandy Oct 2014 #65

Tweedy

(628 posts)
2. We need our states to regulate our hospitals to make certain our hospitals are prepared
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:00 PM
Oct 2014

In this country, hospitals are under the jurisdiction of the state in which they sit. Goodness forbid we get hit with a dangerous epidemic. We will need every hospital bed we have everywhere. We need to insist every hospital is able to serve one of its most important public functions, caring for the sick in an epidemic.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
5. the State Departments of Health
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:11 PM
Oct 2014

I went to mine, on Twitter a few weeks ago, expecting to see all kinds of directives, information etc.
Instead, they had a poem, a freakin' poem, about ebola and staying calm. I'm sure they thought it was cute, but people were looking for guidance.

I knew then how all this was going to turn out.

dated Monday Oct 6
http://www.commissionerblog.health.state.mn.us/2014/10/13-ways-of-looking-at-ebola.html

Tweedy

(628 posts)
7. How to explain it?
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:14 PM
Oct 2014

Complacency? A belief it could never happen here? Unless we are going to fundamentally reform our health care system again and nationalize it this time, we need our states to do their job.

MineralMan

(146,287 posts)
8. Maybe you should have gone to that department's website
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:16 PM
Oct 2014

instead of Twitter. Here's my state's (MN) page on Ebola. They seem to have plenty of information there.

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/idepc/diseases/vhf/index.html

Twitter is not really a good source of information, I think. There are much better resources for serious issues.

ETA: It seems you're also from Minnesota. Why use Twitter as an information source? We have an excellent state Department of Health, and they have an excellent website, full of useful information. Twitter is for pithy sayings and jokes. If you want information, modify your search and go to real websites.

MineralMan

(146,287 posts)
17. And I was supposed to know that how, exactly?
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:24 PM
Oct 2014

Right now, on the department's Twitter feed are all sorts of links to information.

On October 6, there wasn't the concern there is now. The Department of Health has updated all of its information and continues to do so on a regular basis.

There's also the CDC website, which has even more information on Ebola, and also updates that information regularly.

Twitter is not, and cannot be, a good source of information on important topics. If you want information, go to places where you can find actual words in the quantity needed to become informed. Twitter is not that place. Ever!

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
22. On Oct 6
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:31 PM
Oct 2014

Duncan was being treated for Ebola, he just arrived from Liberia. Mpls/St. Paul has 30,000 West Africans. Trust me, it was relevant. If the Health Dept. had no concern, they sure as heck should have.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
16. I did
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:24 PM
Oct 2014

all they had was the same OBSOLETE crap the CDC had "no shoe covers needed, N95 mask good enough" blah blah

MineralMan

(146,287 posts)
21. And now the site reflects updated information.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:30 PM
Oct 2014

The CDC is the source for such information. Ebola isn't something that's familiar enough for the state health department to be an authority on it. So, they use the CDC as a source of information, since it is an authority. As the CDC has updated its information, those updates are reflected on the state health department's website.

Looks to me like everyone's on this, now that it is of concern in the U.S. Hindsight is not usually the best measure of things, it seems to me. What is on their website NOW and on Twitter NOW seems to me to be the issue, not what was there ten days ago. If you're relying on old information, that's probably not the best thing.

Updates are frequent right now.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
24. It's not "hindsight"
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:34 PM
Oct 2014

Why were ordinary nurses connecting the dots, at the time, but not those whose job it is to prevent public health disasters?

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
20. can do without
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:29 PM
Oct 2014

the patronizing, thank you. Twitter links to the web, it's quick way to find the weblinks on relevant issues. The MN Dept.Health on Oct 6th only provided links to the CDC.

MineralMan

(146,287 posts)
23. It's October 16th now.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:33 PM
Oct 2014

What was on the MN DOH website or Twitter feed 10 days ago is irrelevant. What's there now is up to date. In an emerging situation, staying up to date is pretty important.

The only thing you mentioned was the poem from 10 days you found on Twitter. You used that to minimize the role of a state health department. I find that to be problematic. You didn't mention the links or the website at all.

I'm not patronizing. I'm criticizing. There is a difference.

Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
12. I'm afraid the consequences of that
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:19 PM
Oct 2014

would be far fewer hospital beds.

Like many rural communities, we have a very small hospital. It's fine for things like sprained ankles, normal childbirths, etc. But, for anything major, they transfer to a hospital better suited to treat the problem. As an example, I once took my dh to the local hospital for what I thought would be a bad migraine. About a half hour later, he was in an ambulance heading for a hospital 1.5 hours away with a diagnosed aneurysm.

Maybe at any given time there are two or three people being treated as in-patients.

If our hospital, and every other small hospital, had to be outfitted with biocontainment gear, the cost would be prohibitive, and those small hospitals would close, and people with sprained ankles, pregnant women, and all those other "minor" problems would have to go elsewhere. Our docs would all leave.

Simply not feasible, or even practical.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
25. Hospitals need to be able to deal with outbreaks
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:36 PM
Oct 2014

Rural hospitals have always been unique, and generally need subsidies to function properly. Here is the critical point: if we were hit with an epidemic, people will need care at rural hospitals. Epidemics don't care about man made boundaries. We used to understand this; these days with the drive to cut all and often, combined with our long reign of health, we seem to have lost comprehension of the need to maintain the public welfare by ensuring adequate beds and adequate care everywhere. Hopefully, this will be a wake up call. Right now, the focus on the cdc, rather than the unprepared hospital does not bode well for our future. We also need to invest in NIH to try and stay ahead of the bugs out there. Yet, not preparing for the worst case scenario is a dangerous gamble. Imagine something horrible happens, hospital beds are full in every city, do you really want to write off your close rural hospital?

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
26. It's a problem
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
Oct 2014

and I don't know that there is a solution. There must be literally thousands of hospitals like ours, and even if Ebola gets to be as bad as it can be in this country, it is still highly unlikely that very many of them would see an Ebola patient. Outfitting them all to handle this type of infection would be a monumental task. There simply isn't enough $$$ to do it.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
27. Flu
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 01:12 PM
Oct 2014

I worry about the ability to deal with flu, or MRSA, more than I do hemorrhagic fevers. Yet, a hospital needs to be prepared for any patient who walks in the door and we can afford to make certain each one is, if we just get over our government must be drowned in the bathtub nonsense.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
35. no they don't
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 04:38 PM
Oct 2014

It works just fine sending people by medivac or ambulance (depending on what is needed) to those hospitals that are prepared to serve patients with special needs. It's the only thing that makes practical sense. And it's worked for ages. Not every hospital has or needs a special burn unit, trauma center, children's hospital, etc. since the area they cover does not provide enough patients needing that special care to warrant it. The costs of every hospital having all these specialized units with the staff trained and experienced to deal with such patients would be astronomical, and those units would be largely empty most of the time with the staff twiddling their thumbs while not gaining more experience.

To insist that every hospital have the infrastructure, equipment, trained and experienced staff, etc. to handle a BSL-4 infected patient is ludicrous. This country doesn't GET loads of patients infected with such viruses needing that level of care. This is the first time we've even HAD Ebola in this country, and so far only a handful of infected. Why on earth SHOULD every hospital in the country be outfitted with the infrastructure, specialized staff, equipment, etc. to handle something here that basically doesn't happen?

The US does have four excellent hospitals that are capable and do handle BSL-4 infected patients with a total of 19 beds between them, and it has so far been MORE than enough. The purpose of these specialized hospitals is to care for any BSL-4 infected patient in an environment designed to not only care for them but to STOP THE SPREAD of the infection. Had Mr. Duncan been sent to one of these hospitals as every one of the infected Americans were he would not have infected any health workers just as none of the health workers that cared for all the other Ebola infected patients became infected.

However, the US has to have a practical PLAN in place to deal with some unknown horrible virus that may some day cause a horrific outbreak that kills loads of people. Even NOW, we don't have any huge emergency for all hospitals because of Ebola. Our plan in place that until Mr. Duncan worked just fine was to send any BSL-4 infected patient to one of the 4 hospitals in the country for care AND because of their infrastructure, equipment, experienced and trained staff stops the infection spread THERE. That's what they're for. Had the CDC followed that plan which was working just fine for the infected Americans in Mr. Duncan's case there wouldn't be two and possibly more infected Ebola patients save for the possibility of those people who came into contact with Mr. Duncan before he was hospitalized, and it looks like none of those people will become infected as they're close to being through with the quarantine time with none of them having shown symptoms.

Since we knew of the Ebola outbreak running rampant in West Africa for months, the CDC SHOULD have realized that some infected persons may arrive here just as he did while they were infected but not symptomatic. They should have had a plan not just in place but followed up at all hospitals as to what ER's should need to look for and what certain information meant. They dropped the ball on that because most hospitals DON'T have that information being filtered down to the workers that encounter such people. The Dallas hospital dropped the ball in suspecting that Mr. Duncan had Ebola when he first presented and told them he was from Liberia/West Africa. That obviously didn't ring any bells for the workers because the hospital did not communicate to the staff what having recently been in Liberia/West Africa MEANT and how such a case should be handled. BUT, the CDC did not communicate to the hospital what information and correct action should be.

It's the CDC's job to not only provide a CORRECT plan to all hospitals concerning Ebola but to make sure that every hospital is communicating the plan to their staff at all levels and providing whatever PPE, disinfection, isolation of the patient, etc. is required. The CDC did NOT provide any hospital with the CORRECT PPE or disinfection protocol for a BSL-4 infected patient or suspected patient. Instead, all these months the CDC was saying that Ebola wasn't going to happen here... until it did.

Yes, the Dallas hospital woefully dropped the ball in the assessment of Mr. Duncan and should have suspected that he might have Ebola. But the hospital was not given correct instruction about that from the CDC who had been claiming it wasn't going to happen here and thus did not communicate anything to the staff about what to do in case of the possibility. This is why hospitals from the top down are now in an uproar. They have NOT gotten a correct plan from the CDC. The CDC putting information on their website or providing a call-in phone number isn't nearly good enough.

Hospitals needed to GET that information, and the CORRECT information, from the CDC, and the CDC needed to FOLLOW UP that every hospital puts in place the information, equipment, training, etc. to the staff on what to do in the event that someone comes into the hospital with suspected Ebola. And the FIRST thing that hospitals and their staff need to know is what the travel history of a patient MEANS and the correct communication of that information to everyone that needs to know and thus can equip themselves appropriately and isolate the patient.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
37. Confusion
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 06:15 PM
Oct 2014

Last edited Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:48 PM - Edit history (1)

The cdc has had protocols about what to do for months. This hospital did not tell the cdc for 2 days that they had a suspected patient and did not follow protocols.

I am not worried about an Ebola outbreak here. I am worried hospitals seem to be claiming, if what you say is accurate, that they did not know about cdc guidelines or protocols which clearly existed and were available by the hospital's own admission. This hospital did not ask for transfer, or assistance with care so far as I can tell.

Hospitals do need to be able to care for any patient who comes in their door with a known disease with effective protocols. If this means transferring the patient, fine. This hospital did not do this.

If we do get an epidemic, hospitals need to do better. The cdc cannot do everything. There are 5,723 hospitals in this country for goodness sake. If we were so unfortunate to have an epidemic we will need every bed.

The cdc can only provide guidelines and information. This the cdc did. It cannot force anyone to do anything. Only the state can force a hospital within its borders to do something.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
47. the CDC provided incorrect protocols
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 07:03 PM
Oct 2014

The CDC's protocols for protective clothing did not meet the standard for a BSL-4 infected patient. It did not call for head to toe covering. It did not call for disinfection of the clothing before removal, disinfection of the bottoms of shoes or disinfection of floors, walls, etc. where infection could be tracked. It did not call for special training for the staff or practice getting in and out of the protective clothing. It did not call for supervision of the staff by experts in getting in and out of the protective clothing.

The hospital didn't even HAVE the protective clothing that is required to care for a BSL-4 infected patient, didn't HAVE the infrastructure, didn't HAVE trained and experienced staff to care for a BSL-4 infected patient. But it was the CDC who previously and erroneously told everyone that any hospital could safely care for a BSL-4 infected patient when they KNEW they could not. It was the CDC that approved the handling of Mr. Duncan's care at a hospital it KNEW was not prepared to do so. It left Mr. Duncan's care to this hospital with no guidance, monitoring or supervising what was going on, etc. Every other Ebola infected patient was sent to one of the four hospitals in the nation that has the infrastructure, equipment and trained and experienced staff to handle BSL-4 infected patients. Why wasn't Mr. Duncan?

The CDC is the nation's authority when it comes to infectious disease and how it is handled. The CDC made the decision that this regular hospital could safely handle Mr. Duncan's care when it could not, gave inadequate protocols for a BSL-4 infected patient and did not monitor or supervise what was happening during that care. The CDC's JOB is to provide appropriate protocols and guidelines concerning infectious disease, to make sure that hospitals communicate appropriate information and training to their staff, and monitor and supervise that care to safeguard against any possible mistakes. They are also the authority to make decisions concerning whether or not a patient requires specialized care and to remove them to the appropriate facility. The CDC did that with all the Americans that became infected with Ebola but for whatever idiotic reason did not for Mr. Duncan.

The CDC did not tell the hospital not to do high risk end of life procedures on the patient such as the dialysis and ventilation. They did not tell the hospital not to have so many people caring for Mr. Duncan and that those people should not care for any other patient. They did not examine the ICU where a makeshift ward was set up for his care to make sure there was negative air flow, separate suction receptacles, appropriate handling of waste or disinfection. They assured the hospital that Mr. Duncan could be safely cared for in their inappropriate facility, provided inadequate protocols for a BSL-4 infected patient, and paid no attention to what was happening during his care which we have since learned was monstrous.

Further, the CDC did not quarantine any of the workers who cared for Mr. Duncan after that care believing their inadequate PPE protocols were an Ebola brick wall. Those workers only had to self-monitor their own selves while continuing to live their lives as normal including continuing to go to work and handle patients. Caring for an infected patient is THE highest risk of exposure which is WHY such stringent measures are required to care for a BSL-4 infected patient. The CDC, however, decided that the workers' were at such low risk that they were not quarantined when the CDC has quarantined many other people that had FAR less exposure to infection.

Clearly, you don't know anything about what the CDC does or what it SHOULD be doing. They are THE authority of the NATION concerning infectious disease, it's correct handling and any necessary decisions that go along with that. EVERY state is subject to the CDC's authority. When the CDC says you need to lock down your hospital in Ohio for whatever reason for example, the state must do so. The CDC is also responsible for giving advise to the PRESIDENT on infectious disease matters to REQUIRE that XYZ needs to be done - the PRESIDENT is subject to the CDC's authority on such matters, and no president would be so stupid as to not follow whatever is needed according the CDC just as they wouldn't if the FDA said XYZ was necessary for whatever reason. We have all kinds of agencies in this country that are responsible for certain issues and report to and advise the government on what is needed, and the president, etc. takes that advice because those agencies are the experts... or they're supposed to be.

Sorry, but you have no idea what the scope of the CDC is nor it's level of authority.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
48. What?
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 07:19 PM
Oct 2014

For two days, this hospital did not follow protocols. The cdc was not informed during those two days. The cdc obviously was not informed when Mr. Duncan was sent home. The cdc has no authority to force a hospital to do anything. This hospital did have a seminar, per cdc guidelines, but it was apparently subpar. The cdc's protocols have worked. Yes, the cdc changes their protocols based on changing info. Nonetheless, other hospitals using the protocols have not had infected health care workers. The cdc is not a hospital. It has no authority to order anyone to even read guidelines. These are the men and women who have stopped Ebola and other outbreaks in the past all over the world. What the cdc does is amazing, brave and necessary. Can we accept though that the cdc cannot, and should not, be expected to be omnipotent?

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
49. Oh dear Lord!
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:35 PM
Oct 2014

Of course the CDC isn't a hospital! Where the hell did you ever get that idea. I SAID they are the nation's authority on infectious disease. A HOSPITAL??? What the hell???

Here's the CDC's website where you can find out for yourself...
http://www.cdc.gov

The CDC has NOTHING to do with the rest of the world. That's the WHO. The CDC is solely the agency of the US government.

Oh, forget it. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Done. Done. Done.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
51. Trying to make a point
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:39 PM
Oct 2014

The cdc does operate around the world. They have field agents abroad all the time. Check out cdc global partnerships. I said they were not a hospital because folks attacking them seem to think they are, or should be, or something.

I should have said the cdc "provides temporary technical support" around the world as it says on their website.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
53. The CDC is involved in many countries in the world
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:55 PM
Oct 2014

It often works along side the WHO. There are currently 330 CDC employees working in more then 60 countries. Also the CDC provides testing for many disease outbreak in the world in it's labs.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
38. First mistake
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 06:18 PM
Oct 2014

However the patient presents, ensuring the treating physician receives the admitting history is critical. This is basic.

 

notrightatall

(410 posts)
9. Nope, this one's on Texas.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:17 PM
Oct 2014

CDC can only recommend. This Texas hospital put $ before care. If they had done their jobs, there would be no 2nd or 3rd cases. No panic at Frontier Airlines, no schools closed in Ohio or Texas. Yup, this one is on TEXAS.



Maybe YOU have not been keeping up.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
13. Bullshit
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:20 PM
Oct 2014

The CDC response has been abysmal, along with the hospital.

But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking this could *never* happen in a state that Dems control, by all means have at it.

 

notrightatall

(410 posts)
18. Didn't say anything of the sort.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:25 PM
Oct 2014

Bottom line: Had the TEXAS hospital not put $ before care, e.g. : not "suiting up" from day one, there would be one dead patient. That is all. Not a R/D thing, just the usual $$$$$ thing.

But if you sleep better thinking otherwise, have at it!!

Tweedy

(628 posts)
39. Maybe zero mortality
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 06:19 PM
Oct 2014

Had Mr. Duncan not been sent home in the first place, there might be no dead patients.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
43. Don't know about that without more info
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 06:26 PM
Oct 2014

This hospital messed up repeatedly. So far as I can tell, there is nothing to show this is a wide spread problem caused by a failure to regulate. What we do know is the cdc has no authority to regulate. Yet, hospitals screw up every day. This one is simply getting massive media exposure.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
45. Should have realized
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 06:30 PM
Oct 2014

The GOP is beyond hyperbolic every day. Some of the things I am told as 'fact' boggle my mind.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
55. You need to listen to the whistleblower nurse
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 10:19 PM
Oct 2014
The CDC personnel wasn't even following its own guidelines when in the containment unit at Dallas Pres. Don't be surprised if one of them comes down with ebola.

Personally, I think every doctor and healthcare worker who volunteers in an ebola stricken area should be flown back here and receive top notch care. That's the least we can do for these heroes.

But as just as a little fyi, medical experts on CNN have been saying that most hospitals could provide the same treatment that Emory and the NIH can provide, although that treatment might be compromised if healthcare personnel are worrying about substandard PPEs, a substandard environment, substandard medical equipment, etc.

In other words, they really can't provide the appropriate level of care.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
59. Knowing how hospitals work, this is mostly on the attending physician, imo.
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 09:03 AM
Oct 2014

Not some computer glitch.

He didn't thoroughly read the patient's chart. Charting is a large part of what a nurse does daily. For proper care of the patient. And to cover their own butts. And the doctors' butts. And the hospitals' butts.

The American people completely understand the concept of "the patient's chart," but the hospital, media, and even the cdc have been intent on explaining what happened as "computer problems, miscommunication,etc." Even, now, they refuse to use simple terminology that most Americans will immediately "get."

Btw, if I understand correctly, the attending physician did send Mr. Duncan for a scan, so he may have been considering something like appendicitis. I don't think he just wrote him off. Appendicitis can lead to spikes in fever, nausea, abdominal pain, but like all diseases, not all patients present with all symptoms. But the ball WAS dropped.

 

notrightatall

(410 posts)
60. I think more on admin.
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 10:11 AM
Oct 2014

Bean counters tried hard to keep that guy out of their hospital

Immoral? Yes, criminal? Maybe.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
41. Cdc has done its job
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 06:22 PM
Oct 2014

Protocols were not followed before the cdc was even notified. The CDC is not all knowing.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
15. Well, just a couple of days
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:21 PM
Oct 2014

before Duncan was diagnosed, President Obama himself told us it was highly unlikely that we would see an Ebola case here.

Maybe Texas trusted his word.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Let's not make this political, okay?

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
31. It's a national problem
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 02:36 PM
Oct 2014

We need everyone to work together to solve it. Pointing fingers and placing blame is counterproductive.

 

notrightatall

(410 posts)
32. Mostly a Texas induced National problem, at this point.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 02:43 PM
Oct 2014

They (texas) made their bed, now they can sleep in it. With or without haz-mat suits.
The shaming of texas over their failed policies is NOT counter productive.

No free pass in the name of Nationalism.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
50. He told about his travel history on the first visit, from reports I read.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:38 PM
Oct 2014

They didn't take it seriously, or mis-communicated it to the doctor, was the first story I read about it.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
52. As he stated on his deathbed, he thought he was helping a woman who might be having
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:49 PM
Oct 2014

a miscarriage. She was pregnant. The clinic that he and another took her to discharged her with medication.

Discharged her and sent her home. Totally out of protocol for someone suspected of contracting ebola.

Tweedy

(628 posts)
19. Only if you believe cdc is omnipotent
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:25 PM
Oct 2014

CDC believes the infection of any health care worker is a failure. This is right. Yet, we know Mr. Duncan was sent home wrongly. We know when he returned CDC protocols were not followed for 2 days while the hospital waited for test results. We know Mr. Duncan's nephew called the CDC and the CDC was on site within hours of that call.

Now, the president and the CDC will send a medical team, as well as a containment team. This is a good temporary solution. It is not a long term solution. Every hospital everywhere in this country needs to read and properly train on all protocols. If an epidemic hit here, there are not enough CDC employees to handle it. It is absurd to blame the CDC for the negligence of a hospital regulated by a state health department, even though it is right for the CDC to accept that responsibility.

 

notrightatall

(410 posts)
11. Again
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 12:19 PM
Oct 2014

If this TEXAS hospital had done their job there would be no issue with the "leaving on a jet plane"

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
29. Good. IMHO her life was at risk in TH Pres. They are not capable of safely treating Ebola cases.
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 02:06 PM
Oct 2014

And that means patient AND staff safety.

Buffoons running that place.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
62. Not to mention the risk to nurses, doctors and other patients.
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 11:05 AM
Oct 2014

Did FedEx ever bring those hazmat suits they had on order?

JCMach1

(27,556 posts)
36. How about some media outlet slamming Rick Perry for his poor response
Thu Oct 16, 2014, 04:41 PM
Oct 2014

to a health crisis...

let me guess... CRICKETS

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
58. Yes. She is on the road to recovery
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 12:46 AM
Oct 2014

so no medical reason to be transported to the NIH...time to recover a vat of her blood to help others.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
61. That is a very premature statement
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 11:02 AM
Oct 2014

according to Dr. Anthony Fauci at the NIH this morning.

Her condition is "fair" and "stable."

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
63. All the US patients survived who were given transfusions containing the Ebola antigen
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 11:22 AM
Oct 2014

She will survive as she was given the antigen blood. On the 14th, a couple days after receiving the transfusion, she herself reported she was "doing well". And the recent video of her walking during a time in the infection path when Duncan was on his death bed (not given a transfusion) is just more evidence she is "on the road to recovery". So, no, not premature.

Her blood is valuable, more valuable than Brantley's blood that she received. It contains antigens to the virus strain that most closely matches Duncan's (patient zero in the US). Her blood will be more helpful to everyone else who gets Ebola via the chain of illness originating with Duncan than Brantley's will (or any other survivor who got Ebola from someone else in West Africa).

The NIH can start testing her blood for HIV, Hep C etc right now and then, when she is more fully recovered, start stockpiling it (I can't see her not permitting it).

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
64. Not according to an infectious disease specialist
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 11:25 AM
Oct 2014

Watch his interview.

I have good feelings about her survival, but no doctor would state what you just stated.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
65. Again, 100% Ebola survival rate in the US
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 11:59 AM
Oct 2014

from these transfusions, and her statement, and the video, is enough preliminary evidence for me (am not a medical doctor) to extrapolate from and base my statement on.

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