When this guy gets Ebola, can we call him an idiot?

[NightWatcher]

Of course I'm not talking about the guys in the space suits but the guy in the oxford shirt with the clipboard.

Sure, it's from the Post but the story is all over. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/clipboard-man-hazmat-suit/story?id=26235850

Everyone else who was assisting in the transfer of the Ebola nurse from Dallas to Atlanta had a protective suit, but this guy only had a clipboard.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/16/man-with-no-protective-gear-seen-transporting-ebola-patient/

The man seen Wednesday wearing no protective gear while transporting an Ebola-stricken patient from Dallas to Atlanta works for the air ambulance company that handled the flight.

Officials with Georgia-based Phoenix Air Group said its clipboard-carrying medical supervisor was OK to in work civilian clothes while everyone else on the scene donned full hazmat suits.

[magical thyme]

1. he's a CDC official monitoring the transfer from a safe distance

he didn't touch the patient.

[hobbit709]

2. We'll find out in about 3 weeks.

[boomer55]

8. Or 6 weeks. WHO says up to 42 day incubation

On some Ebola cases

[morningfog]

10. Oh good! You can hold out hope for a large outbreak even longer!

[boomer55]

11. hubris... pure unadulterated 1st world hubris

[morningfog]

13. Pure doom and gloomer.

Hair on fire desire for catastrophe. Sorry to disappoint you, you aren't going to get it.

[AverageJoe90]

15. This, times 1,000. nt

[uponit7771]

12. +1

[KMOD]

22. No! The incubation period is STILL 21 days

42 days are necessary to declare an epidemic over.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/

[Baitball Blogger]

26. You are really kicking them out of the park.

[KMOD]

37. Thank you, Baitball Blogger! :) n/t

[KamaAina]

39. And welcome to DU!

[KMOD]

40. Thank you, KamaAina :) n/t

[boomer55]

34. you're mistaken on this. Read the 2nd sentence on this and source it

The 42-day period is twice the generally accepted maximum incubation period of the virus. However, some incubation periods are longer - that WHO said that in 95 percent of cases the incubation period was between one and 21 days. In 98 percent it was no longer than 42 days.

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0I328W20141014?irpc=932

[KMOD]

36. Boomer, I gave you a link from WHO

and you gave me a link to a Reuters article about the link I gave you.

From my link: Incubation period

The period of 42 days, with active case-finding in place, is twice the maximum incubation period for Ebola virus disease and is considered by WHO as sufficient to generate confidence in a declaration that an Ebola outbreak has ended.

What that means is when you have an active patient, his/her incubation period is 21 days. Anywhere during the 21 days they could potentially infect someone. If the patient somehow infected someone on their 21st day of incubation, they would need to wait another 21 days to make sure no one else was infected. So if no one is ill for 42 days, the epidemic is over.

Edited to add more: I think this is where the confusion is coming from.

From my link: Recent studies conducted in West Africa have demonstrated that 95% of confirmed cases have an incubation period in the range of 1 to 21 days; 98% have an incubation period that falls within the 1 to 42 day interval. WHO is therefore confident that detection of no new cases, with active surveillance in place, throughout this 42-day period means that an Ebola outbreak is indeed over

It's not written that great for an understanding level. What WHO is saying is that in 95% of confirmed cases, the incubation period is 1-21 days. That has not changed. Obviously there are outliers, perhaps 22 or 23 days.

In 98% of cases, any contacts would have been ill within 42 days.

I hope that clears thing up.

[lob1]

51. I thought WHO was on first.

[boomer55]

58. Heres another read on it from Drexel University

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/drexel-study-claims-21-day-quarantine-for-those-exposed-to-ebola-might-not-be-long-enough/

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) – A new Drexel study published in the journal PLOS One suggests 21 days might not be a long enough quarantine period for those who have been exposed to the Ebola virus.
The research, which was conducted by Professor Charles Haas, PhD, and used data from both previous outbreaks and the first nine months of the current outbreak, claims that there is still a .1 to 12% risk of that person developing the virus if they are released from quarantine after 21 days.

“In other words from 0.1 to 12% of the time, an individual case will have a greater incubation time than 21 days,” Haas concludes.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Yes--on the flightline, someone needs to have full visibility and situational awareness.

As long as he didn't come in close contact with the patient, I don't see a problem.

[NightWatcher]

5. In the video he's seen taking items from one of the space suited guys

He also boarded the flight and was seen again on the ground in Atlanta, again sans suit.

He did touch stuff that others touched.

[Man from Pickens]

7. he is breaking containment

If there's a good reason all those other people have the hazmat suits on (i.e. not just for show) then this guy being in close proximity without one is creating a chance for transmission of the virus where none would exist.

Either one of two things must be true:

1) The CDC is conducting a charade
2) The CDC is full of complete idiots who have no idea WTF they are doing

Other explanations are welcome, if you can find one that fits the facts.

[kestrel91316]

14. If he's not touching the FULLY SUITED patient, it's hard to imagine how he is at any risk.

And yes, I am more of an expert in microbiology and epidemiology than 99% of DUers, so I have a clue or two.

[Whiskeytide]

19. My take ...

... Almost zero risk of transmission. 100% chance of public relations dumbassedness. I think people need to start understanding that, in today's inter-tube dependent, camera phone in every pocket, 15 second news byte world, we have to LOOK like we know what we're doing as much as actually knowing what we're doing.

I don't really have a problem with what this guy is doing. I also think its unlikely Vinson transmitted the virus on her flight. But the public, stoked by the media and the rampant burning hair sites on the internet, DO have a problem with it. Not understanding that, and paying some heed to it, is making everyone involved look like incompetent idiots.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. Bingo!

Perception is king.

[kestrel91316]

31. Look, you silly person. This guy's job was as WATCHER. He was monitoring technique.

He HAS to have full visibility to see any little slip up by the guys in those bulky suits with restricted visibility.

How dare you even suggest he endanger THEIR lives by not being able to do his job correctly.

Jesus H Christ. He's following a very strict safety protocol and knows exactly what he's doing. WE PROFESSIONALS CANNOT AND MUST NOT EVER LET LAYPERSONS' PARANOIA DICTATE HOW WE DO OUR WORK. I don't let paranoid, uneducated clients dictate my anesthesia protocol to me or my antibiotic choices or how I suture up a surgical incision. CDC must not ever let paranoid laypersons dictate safety protocols.

Let the adults do their job without interference from children.

[Whiskeytide]

43. I can't even respond to this faux-like outrage...

... Nothing I said is even remotely similar to what you have said I said. I'm not generally asked to defend statements I did not make or even imply.

For what it's worth, my kids also think I'm often silly - so there's that.

[upaloopa]

32. Reacting to the hair on fire crowd is stupid.

We need truth and facts here not sucking up to the Globe readers.

[Whiskeytide]

41. Not at all what I said...

... I just think it would be wise to start assuming what you do is going to be on CNN in some fashion or another, so do it with some consideration of what its going to look like to the average person. Still do what you need to do - still honor truth and facts. But be aware the burning hair is out there and try not to pour gasoline on it.

[War Horse]

21. So if he's not directly exposed to any bodily fluids of the patient

he's not in any direct danger, is that what you are saying? You sound dangerously coherent, and not suitably panicked.

[Avalux]

20. Yes, please, let's discuss the FACTS. You obviously aren't aware of them.

Ebola is spread by direct contact with body fluids. Unless the guy with the clipboard is in direct contact with the patient or the patient's body fluids (i.e. touching her or a contaminated surface), he doesn't need a hazmat suit.

The other people are wearing protection because they're taking care of the patient.

[fadedrose]

24. Both sound reasonable. Idiots do charades. nt

[yellowcanine]

4. Looks ok to me. The Ebola patient is on the steps in the yellow suit.

It is not as if the Ebola is going to jump off that stretcher and gobsmack him in the face.

[NightWatcher]

6. Whoops, you've dropped some blood, here let me get that with my shirtsleeve

[RiffRandell]

9. This is an explanation from the airline.

I'm pretty confident he'll be fine, but we shall see.

The airline confirmed to ABC News that the man was their medical protocol supervisor who was purposefully not wearing protective gear.

"Our medical professionals in the biohazard suits have limited vision and mobility and it is the protocol supervisor’s job to watch each person carefully and give them verbal directions to insure no close contact protocols are violated," a spokesperson from Phoenix Air told ABC News said.

"There is absolutely no problem with this and in fact insures an even higher level of safety for all involved," the spokesperson said.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/airline-explains-man-without-hazmat-suit-ebola-fli/nhkS9/?ref=cbTopWidget

[treestar]

16. That makes sense

Another fun outrage crushed!

[KittyWampus]

17. His internet meme name is "Clipboard Man".

[csziggy]

42. We should shorten that to Clippy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Assistant

[Avalux]

18. I am getting tired of the hysteria. SO tired of it.

He doesn't need protective clothing unless he is in direct contact with the patient. He's not going to get Ebola.

[NutmegYankee]

62. I'm right there with you.

[CBGLuthier]

23. Well, IF he gets it, and YOU call him an idiot, we will call you an uncompassionate person

who thinks that people are idiots for doing their jobs properly.

[dembotoz]

25. what about the camera man-not worried about the super zombie ebola voodu death ray

to be featured tonight on fox......

[liberalmuse]

27. Was he handling the patient?

If not, he's probably going to be just fine as ebola is not an airborne virus.

[TorchTheWitch]

30. take a look at that last photo in post #6

He bare handed helped to hold open an infectious disease bag without any protective clothing whatsoever. His job is to only provide verbal direction however from the photos it's obvious that he himself while unprotected handled those things that are only supposed to be touched by appropriately protected people.

[kestrel91316]

33. Where's the blood, urine, feces, and vomit that's going to infect him?

Nowhere. Because this patient is FINE, and is properly garbed.

I'm pretty sure the professional knows exactly how to do his job.

You people remind me of the nutjob clients who try to insist on me calling them in the middle of a dentistry to get their personal ok on each extraction of a tooth that should have been pulled years ago. They aren't qualified to make that sort of call.

[upaloopa]

35. You know what that bag is? Maybe it is something else.

Why would they put an infectious disease bag on the plane? Why not treat it like other bio waste and have it taken by a bio waste company truck?
I don't think they would put a bag of bio waste on the plane do you, really?

[TorchTheWitch]

45. it's red, so it's for disposal of infectious diseased items

Doctors use red bags in receptacles in their patient exam rooms to throw away those items that may be infected with a virus or other communicable bacteria, etc. So do dentists, vets, etc. Never seen them? Any time a patient uses to tissue to blot tears, blow their nose, or just hold it in their hand it goes in the red bag receptacle. Doctors and nurses also toss their used gloves and any other throw away items that came into contact with a patient into the red bag container. Been going on since I was born at least.

Red is the universal color at least in this country to signify that whatever is in that receptacle is a possible contaminant and needs to be handled and disposed of correctly. I don't know what exactly is in the red bag in the photos but because of the color it indicates that whatever is in it is possibly infected material.

We don't know that the red bags were put on the plane. Since the plane is a special isolation and containment unit on its own it actually makes sense that it went on the plane with the infected patient to be handled and properly destroyed on their arrival. It makes more sense to have everything possibly infected by the patient go with the patient for expert handling and destruction since separating everything is a potential hazard of too many cooks in the soup. However, the company handling the transportation and containment may very well not have put the bags on the plane with the patient but had a removal team right there to properly dispose of it. We don't know how this company operates.

The point here is that this supervisor without any protection was handling a biowaste bag when all he is supposed to be doing while not personally protected is not touch ANYTHING and issue any verbal-only instructions that may be needed. In other photos it shows him uncomfortably close to suited and possibly contaminated personnel that he may have touched. But his handling of a red biowaste bag with no protection at all is monstrous. He's the SUPERVISOR and should know better.

[upaloopa]

47. You don't know what is in that bag anymore than I do

Your part of the hair on fire crowd.
You are not doing anyone any service by assuming things.
We need truth facts and perspective not more hype and fear!
Next that guy touched a bio Ebola bag and infected 50 people on his bus ride home tonight from work!
Then those fifty people vomited on their kids who went to school and defecated on the floor in the bathroom where other kids slipped and touch Ebola shit!

[TorchTheWitch]

48. It's an infectious material bag

And it is because it is red. Red is the universal color in at least this country that indicates what it contains is possibly infected material that requires special handling and disposal.

I never said I knew what was in the bag since I don't. I DO know, and so should anyone else with any experience of even being in a patient exam room, that the red bag signifies that what is it it is potentially hazardous waste material.

Cripes, this is common knowledge.

Look it up yourself for heaven's sake...
https://www.google.com/search?q=red+bag+waste&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&client=firefox-a

[upaloopa]

50. I was a controller of a medical clinic until 7

years ago. I dealt with everyone and everything there including bio waste bags contracts and disposal companies.

[TorchTheWitch]

54. yet you don't know that a red bad signifies possible contaminated waste???

What joke is this? When's the last time you dealt with red bag waste from a BSL-4 infected patient? Whatever your experience is you haven't. Infectious waste from a BSL-4 infected patient has to be handled in a BSL-4 manner.

This supervisor knew that the red bag contained possibly contaminated items from a BSL-4 infected patient. Their own job description calls for NO CONTACT with any infected person or infected material and to only give verbal instruction as needed when not in appropriate PPE, but this ass without any protection whatsoever handled a red bag containing possibly contaminated BSL-4 infected waste that he knew was BSL-4 infected waste. That's why his job description says he's not to come into any physical contact of the patient or the patient's waste without appropriate PPE and to only give verbal instructions yet he did in handling the biohazard red bag with no PPE whatsoever.

YOU know that the red bag signifies possibly contaminated waste.
YOU know that this particular red bag contained possibly contaminated waste from a known BSL-4 patient.
YOU know that the supervisor handling the red bag without any PPE whatsoever has a job description that forbids his coming into contact with any possible biohazard while not protected with the appropriate PPE and to only give verbal instruction.
YOU know that his handling of a red bag that YOU know contains possibly contaminated waste from a BSL-4 patient without any PPE whatsoever is a red flag to his possible infection and is against his job description.

So what the fuck are you on about?

[upaloopa]

55. Geez you know all that from looking at a picture

Can you read palms too?
Your making assumptions

[TorchTheWitch]

57. nice try

>>>CLICK<<<

[NutmegYankee]

61. Was it a used bag though?

It appears he is providing the bags to the folks in moon suits. Providing a clean new bag to someone else isn't a risk for contamination.

[TorchTheWitch]

63. does it look like an empty bag to you?

Why would he be holding it open with bare hands anyway? How would he avoid anything accidentally touching his hands or clothing while they put stuff in it? He's not handing it over to anyone, he's holding it open, and it certainly looks like there's stuff in it. In any case, his job description says that he can't touch anything and can only give verbal instructions.

In a video of the guy I believe it was on Yahoo's front page last night, he also took something that was handed to him by a gloved and suited worker.

I also watched another video (again I think it was on Yahoo) that was pretty cool that explained how they disinfected the inside of the plane. They pump in peroxide that's been converted to a gas and keep doing that for several hours. Then they remove, lighting, seatbelts and a bunch of other stuff and burn it. Pretty cool how the flight is set up. Even inside the plane the patient is in a separate see-through chamber sort of like a tent with special zippers that lock out air. I would imagine that it would have to be set up with circulating air so she can breathe. I would also imagine that one of the hazmat suited people is in there with her during the flight for anything she might need. Then that whole unit is also removed after the whole plane has been disinfected and it's all burned.

[valerief]

29. Clipboards have magical powers.

[LanternWaste]

38. I'd imagine you may call him an idiot regardless of whether or not he shows symptoms of the disease.

I'd imagine you may call him an idiot regardless of whether or not he shows symptoms of the disease. Yet I can't understand what calling him an idiot will accomplish other than a moment or two of shallow self-satisfaction.

[NightWatcher]

44. It's not about name calling, it's about appearing to act in a non judicious manner

How hard could it have been to have put on at least a pair of clothes?

There's a picture of him handling a red bio-hazard bag. He has contact with people who are wearing the suits. He doesn't appear to be exercising the best judgement. On one hand we'll hear that Ebola is coming to kill us all (hyperbole, of course) and then to see someone who should be in the know handling items along with a man in a space suit sends mixed messages.

The 'can we call him an idiot' line is merely for dramatic flair to gain the attention of people reading the subject lines on the main page.

[GummyBearz]

46. TSA

Must be someone from the TSA. He probably wanted to give the Ebola patient a pat down before boarding

[dilby]

49. Unless he was touching the person. I think he will be just fine.

But let's all freak out because not everyone in a 50 mile radius was wearing their hazmat suit that day.

[Politicalboi]

52. IMO We need to have

The nurses who treat Ebola patience, to from here on out to stay on hospital grounds. Pay them EXTRA and give them life insurance and keep them quarantined till they can be cleared. Of course these nurses will be willing to stay away from home while they are treating Ebola patience. That way we know there's no chance of more contact with family, neighbors, grocery stores, dentists or wherever they may need to go. I know if I worked around Ebola patience, I would be scared of contaminating my family and home.

That was pretty dumb to have that nurse travel in a plane even though she did call the CDC. We need to quarantine this before it gets bigger.

[NutmegYankee]

60. No one is going to volunteer for a slaves life.

Forcing nurses to have to live at a hospital with no outside contact is a recipe for not having nurses.

[Peacetrain]

53. He was actually directing people in the hazmat suits because they

have they have vision issues due to the mask.. he was not touching the patient. she is fully suited also..

Watched the explanation early this morning on I think Good Morning America..

[Warpy]

56. The people in the white Moon suits

are going to be in close physical contact with the patient, who is in a yellow moon suit for the duration of the trip. This provides a double layer of protection unless the poor patient has to puke.

The guy with the clipboard is in absolutely no danger. He is far away from the patient, who is clothed in gear that provents the virus from escaping. He also looks weak and ill, judging by his posture.

Under those conditions, I wouldn't suit up, either.

Bottom Line: Ebola-Zaire is not an easy disease to catch unless you are in close contact with an end stage patient.

[GeorgeGist]

59. Do you think the pilots are in Hazmat suits?