President Obama's solution to Ebola crisis doesn't make any sense

[pathansen]

Last edited Fri Oct 17, 2014, 05:15 AM - Edit history (3)

Obama has stated that he will not support putting a ban on airplanes coming here from West Africa. Instead, he thinks we should screen them when they get off of the plane.
This type of reasoning just doesn't make any sense:
(1) If we screen Ebola patients once they get over here, all the other passengers have already been exposed.
(2) Ebola symptoms may take weeks to even show up.
(3) Sending our troops over there is also unwise since it will be much more likely the disease will spread over here when the troops return.
(4) Finally, this is an election year and Obama's decision may cause Democrats to lose a significant amount of votes. Recent survey shows 58 percent of Americans want a ban on incoming flights while only 20% oppose this. See:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/majority-americans-want-flights-banned-ebola-countries-survey-n221751

Perhaps an alternative idea might be to contain or quarantine all of those who want to travel outside of these infected countries for at least 3 weeks before allowing them to leave?

What do you think?

[kcjohn1]

1. Good idea

Some people are being really shortsighted. If this issue is not resolved in West Africa before it gets worse, it is only matter of time before it comes onshore to USA. With no action this disease could spread to other parts of Africa, Mideast, Europe, and Asia, and are you going to ban all flights from there as well? Today it maybe only few countries in west africa, but months from now it could be in the entire world, and at that point it maybe too late to stop it.

This is one of the good use for soldiers. Instead of killing and being killed in the mideast, they should be utilized to save lives. I'm pretty sure they will have good equipment, and I would assume majority of their work will be setting up hospitals and building infrastructure

[notadmblnd]

2. Them? Who is this "them"

[MFM008]

90. plane passengers

Anyone.

[99Forever]

3. Your concerns are noted.

[merrily]

10. Yes, I noted them as well.

I have been clicking on latest threads and there are several along this line.

[Marrah_G]

4. Couple things

There are no direct flights from the three countries to the US. There weren't any prior to the outbreak either.

All the other passengers were not exposed.

Our troops are extremely qualified to assist the government of Liberia and fill in gaps that are caused due to extreme poverty.

ISIL is not a threat to us.

[1StrongBlackMan]

103. Well ...

There are no direct flights from the three countries to the US. There weren't any prior to the outbreak either.

Simple ... We just pick a date and refuse entry into the U.S. for anyone that was outside of the U.S. after that date!

That'll keep us safe!

[Marrah_G]

104. Maybe we could build a big wall all around the country

Including the ocean.... someone could swim in!

[Politicalboi]

5. If we don't help

It WILL be more rampant out here. All who are advising President Obama are telling him not to ban travel from West Africa. I believe they are screening passengers in Africa before getting on planes. We're all better off if we can contain Ebola in Africa.

[amandabeech]

9. Why can't we do both?

Why can't we help in Africa directly, while suspending non-emergency travel?

Every person who enters the US at its airports must have a passport, and those coming from most African countries must also have a visa. They can't get on a plane to the US anywhere without those two documents. All we have to do is suspend non-emergency visas until this nasty disease is brought under control.

[Thor_MN]

17. So you are going to restrict the travel of people based soley on where they were born?

What about people who are citizens of the affected countries that haven't been in those countries for the last couple years?

Citizens of countries other than the affected countries that have been in the affected countries?

Knee jerk, hysterical reactions aren't going to help anything.

[amandabeech]

20. Yes. I am perfectly willing to jerk my knee and be hysterical for as long as this

horrid disease is not under control.

The downside of not be really cautious is just too nasty.

[Thor_MN]

21. Consider what the US would do if Russia decided to shut down travel to/from the US.

Would it not be considered an act of war? You really want to go there?

I'm really happy that fearful, overreacting people are not currently in the White House.

[amandabeech]

23. The US has never gone to war because of a travel ban.

Get real.

Good bye.

[Thor_MN]

24. I think the getting real needs to get done by the people who are in panic.

The US STARTED because another country was enforcing regulations...

[MattBaggins]

56. I was about to give you a thumbs up for humor

but you are serious aren't you.

[Travis_0004]

54. If only we could track where people have been.

We should invent a document, we can call it a passport. Then when you go to another country they can stamp it so we know where you have been. If you have not been to Liberia recently you will not have Liberian stamps on your passport.

[MattBaggins]

57. Good thing everyone around the world always stamp passports.

[Thor_MN]

83. Another good point. According to my passport, I'm in Aruba...

Been there for over two years now... Since some third world country forgot to stamp my passport when I returned...

[MattBaggins]

84. I have never been to Germany

Despite going there every two years.

[Thor_MN]

72. Apparently, you have never used a passport.

You want to see long lines in airports? Have the security people check each page of a passport for the stamps of a multitude of countries, digest the dates (here's a clue, there is NO order in a passport for stamps) and see if they violate some insane set of rules...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

92. Anybody who has been to a hot zone since the outbreak should be restricted until the

outbreak has run its course. Nigeria has contained its outbreak and is preparing to declare it over.

[Thor_MN]

98. Please define just how you are going that.

If you don't have specific steps on just how that is going to be accomplished, you may as well wish for a pony and a hot fudge sundae to show up at your door.

Do you actually think if your suggestion was even remotely possible, it wouldn't be implemented, just to quell the fears of the people quaking in terror?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

99. Nigeria did it. Argentina told the HCW she was not allowed to disembark.

Apparently it's not as hard as some would prefer to pretend.

[Thor_MN]

100. SPECIFIC steps. If you don't have a freaking clue,

well, enough said...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

105. Oh, I get it

Unless I post a 160-page field manual then obviously the procedures employed by Argentina, St. Lucia, Senegal and others couldn't possibly be anything except the figments of a fevered imagination.

[Thor_MN]

107. Apparently, you are ignorant of the fact that there are no flights from the affected countries to

the US, despite it being widely publicized.

So I ask again, how are you going stop people from traveling from the affected countries to the US?

Obviously, you can't ban flights that don't exist (your so called solution) as did countries that DO(did) have flights.

So, here's the situation. You have a line of people in front of you, from various countries, arriving from various countries. Who exactly are you going to stop and why?

If you can't even give a simplified explanation, then you have no idea what you are asking for,

[Nuclear Unicorn]

112. For starters have the US embassy in the effected countries stop issuing visas to the US.

And then deny entry to tho those who originated from or traveled to the hot zones.

Again, Nigeria contained its outbreak and they did it for people entering on ground rather than the tight control points of an airport.

Personally I can't figure out why you're so emotionally invested in not restricting those who are a risk.

[Thor_MN]

118. Really?

Emotional? You are the one quaking in your shoes, scared out of your mind. I'm being realistic. Personally, I can't figure out why people are shitting their pants over this (pun fully intended).

BTW, it's affected countries, not effected countries...

I have no issues with stopping issuing visa in the affected countries. I am getting a little weary of the morons saying to ban flights from the affected countries, or that it would be simple to check passports.

"And then deny entry to tho those who originated from or traveled to the hot zones" WTF do you planning on doing with those people, even IF you could figure out who they are?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

119. "BTW, it's affected countries, not effected countries..."

Oooo! You got me! I need some aloe for that burn.

As long as we're discussing writing style --

I have no issues with stopping issuing visa in the affected countries.

Using the same word in the same sentence twice in a competing context?

WTF do you planning on doing with those people, even IF you could figure out who they are?

The same thing we do whenever anyone from a restricted destination does when they arrive in the US: send them back. Of course, merely announcing the restriction generally keeps them from even attempting to travel to the US in the first place. You act like this has never been done before.

[Thor_MN]

120. "You act like this has never been done before."

For ebola? No, for other diseases? Not that I know of, it's possible. Doubtful in modern history, though.

I just see ridiculous, panicked prancing around saying that something, anything, must be done, when there's no practical solution is accomplishing nothing other than reinforcing right wings fears and talking points.

(and that really stings that you were able to understand WTF a homonym is...)

Hey, looks like someone is stealing your ideas, might want to see if you can't get a copywrite suit going... http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025685677

[hugo_from_TN]

108. This is not rocket science

You can tell from passports and visas who has been in the affected countries in the last 3 weeks. I think a lot of DU folks don't travel internationally and are unaware of the process.

[Thor_MN]

109. In a word, bullshit.

According to my passport, I've been in Aruba for the past two years. Apparently those that "don't travel internationally and are unaware of the process" includes you. Not all countries stamp or stamp consistently. There is no order to the stamps, so there is no way to quickly tell where someone was last, even IF that country did stamp the passport.

I think some people think it's a line by line process and it's easy to see where someone has been. It would be great if that were possible, but reality happens.

[hugo_from_TN]

110. Your argument (along with others) is that it would be hard to do and would not be perfect

Tough Shit.

If it it is hard then people will have to wait longer in passport lines and the passport office can get some extra help.
If it is not perfect I'd rather block 90% of the people coming from those countries than 0%
If a few folks get caught up that were not in those countries, it's an inconvenience that we need to bear to stop this outbreak.

[Thor_MN]

111. Ah, the Ron/Rand Paul selfish is good arguement...

The Libertarians could really use your support. As long as it doesn't cause you any grief, it's all hunky dory.

You would snarl up all airports with international flights to catch the one person that had ebola. Why not just execute anyone who appears to be from West Africa.

My argument is not that it would be hard to do, it's that it would be impossible to do. There is no action that the US can do (other than an act of war) to effectively block travel from West Africa. If you feel strongly enough about it, I suggest you travel to Liberia and lobby for them to close their borders.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

114. What is selfish about restricting travel from places with a disease outbreak?

Good grief you sound as if we have some moral obligation to allow people with Ebola to travel to the US just to prove -- something.

Here the public is wondering if the CDC's response is more a matter of political correctness run amok rather than technical competence and darned if you aren't playing the stereotype to the hilt.

[Thor_MN]

117. Pot, meet kettle. Political correctness?

Damned if you aren't hitting all the teabagger talking points.

No, we have a moral obligation to allow people to travel. The problem that you have is that you want to assume that people have ebola. Say that you set up a screening system that is fair to all and in three days anyone with skin dark than Boehner's fake tan will be pulled for extra attention.

[Tweedy]

6. They screen in Africa too

The CDC operates all over the world.

[pathansen]

49. Then why wasn't Duncan properly screened?

[Tweedy]

51. He was

Last edited Fri Oct 17, 2014, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Mr. Duncan had no symptoms. He said he had no contact with anyone who was infected. There is confusion on this; some people say he lied, some say he did not know. He took his landlord's daughter to the hospital, where she died of Ebola. He said he thought she was having a miscarriage and a clinic cleared her of Ebola. Whatever the truth is, he told the screeners here and in Liberia, he had not been exposed to Ebola. Liberia and Dallas both threatened to try him for lying before he died. The story was written up by the Dallas Morning News, but I cannot get the link to post here. I have also read that his nephew says he did not take her to the hospital.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

93. Which seems to prove that only involuntary isolation / restriction will suffice. nt

[LawDeeDah]

7. You are okay with stranding people in Africa that don't live there? For how long?

What if someone you care about was there, and couldn't come home. You'd be okay with that?

Time and energy should be used to find a cure for Everyone, in every country. It's a shame that Africa has had to suffer with this for so long but now it's panicsville because omg IT'S HERE, IT'S US special snowflakes in peril!.

:large

[MattBaggins]

61. Thank you

[Travis_0004]

63. I would be fine with US citizens returning

Just no tourist visas until this is over.

[MattBaggins]

85. Ummmmm

[JaneyVee]

8. Planes don't come here from W.Africa...

They usually pass through Europe first.

[global1]

35. Which Brings Up My Question - Is There A Similar Ebola Panic Going On In Europe As Here?.......

What precautions are they taking in Europe? What kind of screening are they doing? Are the politicians and media scaring the wheaties out of the Europeans?

[pathansen]

55. I heard that 35 countries have already banned flights from infected countries

[uppityperson]

81. Link please or unsubstantiated rumor.

[former9thward]

87. Not a rumor.

More than two dozen African countries have already imposed restrictions or outright bans on travel to and from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea, and numerous air carriers have canceled flights.

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-ebola-air-travel-20141016-story.html#page=1

[uppityperson]

88. That does not say 35 countries have banned flights from infected countries.

I would lke to see a list of what countries have bannned what travel though. If you could find that, it'd be very interesting to see.

I also find their analysis of why further bans would be bad interesting. It is complicating efforts to dight ebola in W Africa, and could drive some exposed people underground.

Thanks for the article.

[MattBaggins]

68. Muesli. they scare the Muesli out of them

[Ykcutnek]

11. Because he's listening to experts, not irrational fear.

Other Americans should try it sometime.

[PSPS]

12. Obama never presented anything as a "solution."

Nevertheless, your list of objections is nonsensical.

(1) If we screen Ebola patients once they get over here, all the other passengers have already been exposed.

Exposed to what? "Ebola patients" don't fly on any commercial flights.

(2) Ebola symptoms may take weeks to even show up.

Ebola isn't contagious until symptoms are present.

(3) Sending our troops over there is also unwise since it will be much more likely the disease will spread over here when the troops return.

The troops are screened for symptoms before leaving, hence "the disease" won't "spread over here."

Also, please note that while it is true that "we have enough problems over here in this country," ISIS isn't one of them.

[Agschmid]

27. Yup.

[arcane1]

13. Since Ebola isn't a crisis, and ISIS isn't a threat, I wouldn't worry too much.

And anyone who would switch to voting republican because of this is a f*cking dumb-ass who probably doesn't vote anyway.

[Thor_MN]

14. There are no planes coming here from West Africa. So banning them wouldn't do Jack.

Would it make you feel better if he bans non-existent flights?

[DebJ]

73. I think Obama should make a video clip saying

"There will be no flights from these West African countries to the USA"

and see what conservatives say then.

[Thor_MN]

75. The "libruhl" media will find something to complain about...

But it would make sense for him to say that he is going to listen to his opposition and do as they suggest and ban all flights from Liberia and the other affected countries into the US.

[DebJ]

77. Just in case...you are joining in my sarcasm, right? because there aren't any flights

from Liberia and the affected countries into the US.

[Thor_MN]

79. Yes, you replied to my post saying that there are no flights from the affected countries to the US.

Maybe if we treat that like they do 800 numbers in cheesy radio commercials...

There are no flights from the affected countries to the US, that's right, there are no flights from the affected countries to the US, remember, there are no flights from the affected countries to the US.

[DebJ]

80. Duh what a boob I am! Time to go to bed and get the sleep I missed last night!

[procon]

15. Since he's following the recommendations of experts who are all opposed

to such restrictions, then it doesn't make any sense for someone this badly informed to disagree with them.

Fear and ignorance is your enemy. Every item you list has been explained repeatedly, so rather than parrot more Republican talking points, please educate yourself.

[Logical]

16. I think you are over reacting. Calm down. nt

[pathansen]

89. SURVEY: 58% of Americans want flights banned while only 20% oppose ban

So this issue will harm the upcoming election for the Democrats.
See link below:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/majority-americans-want-flights-banned-ebola-countries-survey-n221751

[JoePhilly]

94. The media scares dopes ... and so the government should do what the dopes want?

[Egnever]

122. +1

[Logical]

95. So do the wrong thing for political purposes? nt

[Raine1967]

18. WTH does this mean?

Finally, this is an election year and Obama's decision may cause Democrats to lose a significant amount of votes

So do you have a solution?

You seem very afraid… that is for sure.

His response makes a hell of a lot more sense than this OP. ESPECIALLY #3… do you really think our military is that stupid? ARE you at all aware about the spread of Ebola?

Let Shep Smith explain this to you:

[rustydog]

19. Ignorance and fear is running rampant

So, If an AFRICANWITH EBOLA!!!! comes to America via a stop over in England first, or maybe a week in France first...How will we know he is a threat, we're only banning flights from AFRICA.

Why don't we just let the knee jerk completely and ban all flights into AMERICA!!!! Yea, that will do it...

Calm the fuck down people...My god.

[uppityperson]

22. I will address 3 points here. Please consider them.

3) Sending our troops over there is also unwise since it will be much more likely the disease will spread over here when the troops return.

The areas of the outbreaks are severely understaffed, under equipped to deal with what is going on. They need people to build more hospitals, even field hospitals since there is not enough for those sick with eobola, much less people with other health care needs. I suggest you read these articles to learn more as learning is good.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/with-ebola-crippling-the-health-system-liberians-die-of-routine-medical-problems/2014/09/20/727dcfbe-400b-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/30/ebola-outbreak-pregnant-women_n_5901816.html

They need not only facilities but health care to care for the sick as well as equipment and supplies not only for the ill but to keep the caregivers safe. They also need people to educate as many there do not believe in ebola, in viruses, in what is needed to keep themselves safe. And they need people to keep those educators and health care people safe.

They need more people and money, much much much more. If they can get the epidemic under control there, there will be less chance of it spreading elsewhere.

The troops being sent are going to be working on infrastructure, building hospitals and the like. They will not be caregiving, which is very risky and has resulted in a high percentage of those infected.

2nd point.

an alternative idea might be to quarantine American travelers for about a month before they are allowed to fly back here.

Where is there a facility to quarantine all Americans who fly into the USA? What about people from other countries? No quarantine, just let them in because....I have no clue why. This makes no sense to me. If you would explain more, it might help.

3rd point.

putting a ban on airplanes coming here from West Africa

There are no airplanes coming to the USA from West Africa. Why put a ban in place for something that does not exist?

You edited this part out which is good because communicable diseases do not respect borders, skin color, nationality.
We have enough problems over here in this country to deal with, along with ISIS threat, rather than feeling the need to take care of the whole planet.

What is happening in this outbreak is awful for those in that part of the world and has been ignored for too long. Now that our country has a case, with a couple more from that original one, interest is picking up in noticing and hopefully soon to help where it is the worse. Not because those in power in the world care about those afflicted, but because now it is here. This is not about just "taking care of the whole planet", though morally every country that could SHOULD have been helping, but because it directly affects this country.

[customerserviceguy]

25. I agree completely

The President is treating this disease like it has civil rights.

[uppityperson]

26. wtf? Please clarify, thank you.

[customerserviceguy]

28. In short

He's not doing the things that would be necessary to stop the spread of the disease from West Africa. A Repuke President would bomb their airports, but I'm not calling for that. We need to lead, and tell the world that we, and they, should not accept flights from this dangerous part of the world.

Yes, it sucks to live in the three countries with the outbreak, but the President needs to focus on the well-being of Americans, and not the feelings of the folks from Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Liberia. He didn't get elected President of those countries.

[uppityperson]

30. Working to stop the epidemic where it is coming from is not helping to stop the spread of

disease?

Focusing on containing those sick is not stopping the spread? Helping make enough hospitals, have enough supplies and providers does not stop the spread of disease?

Our well being depends on containing the outbreak and anything we can do to do that will help.

You are not calling to bomb airports that do not have flights to the USA. How...caring.

Yet you see no need to help treat and contain the epidemic before it spreads, are only concerned about the USA and for some reason thing the ebola virus respects borders.

Wild.

[customerserviceguy]

42. I don't see him as being active on this

All the headlines are about others, both those who call for a travel ban, and those who give mealy-mouthed opinions as why it is a bad idea. When you're a bystander, you're not a leader.

And speculating what a Rethug president would do, and saying it is inappropriate is not being "...caring" as you put it. It's just describing the polar opposites between where our President is, and what a Neanderthal would do. There's plenty of middle ground between the two extremes, and I would hope our President would gravitate towards some point in at least the center.

[uppityperson]

44. I agree, he has not committed enough troops, supplies, money, to W Africa. Excuse me for wrongly

reading that you think the USA's actions are only they it "should not accept flights from this dangerous part of the world."

It will be wonderful when he is able to commit help, supplies, etc to W African countries to help contain the outbreak before it gets a lot worse.

[customerserviceguy]

48. Building Ebola treatment centers in West Africa is indeed important

I just hope our troops follow procedures that keep their exposure to the locals to the absolute minimum. If a ship full of soldiers comes back with Ebola, even after the election, it will be a national disaster. President Obama will be an even lamer duck than Bill Clinton was while fighting the Lewinsky scandal.

[PSPS]

33. Next you'll say this is all part of "Obama's Kenyan (black) plot against (white) americans !!11!"

I mean, he looks just like "one of them." amiright?

[customerserviceguy]

38. While I won't say that

because it is ridiculous, it's not going to stop the Repukes from saying that. Just wait, you ain't heard nothing yet, in the last few days before the election, we're going to hear some really horrible things, if the President doesn't take some action to at least make it look like he's trying to protect us from West African travellers.

[uppityperson]

45. What actions? "just calling for a worldwide travel ban on passengers from West Africa" will do nothi

nothing much.

[customerserviceguy]

46. It would do a lot

It would show that he's trying to do something. And if airlines heading for the US know that their West African passengers are not going to be allowed to disembark from their aircraft, it means that they might just well refuse to take them aboard those planes coming from Europe.

Maybe it would send a signal to the Europeans that they need to stop incoming flights from West Africa, as well. It's called 'leadership', and I don't see our President doing a heck of a lot of that in this situation.

[DebJ]

74. Consider this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141015-ebola-virus-outbreak-pandemic-zoonotic-contagion/#at_pco=cfd-1.0&at_ab=-&at_pos=0&at_tot=4&at_si=544091c00302f82c

The world won't be free of Ebola 2014 until West Africa is free of it. Even severe restrictions, barring entry to anyone traveling from West Africa, would not make it impossible for the virus to get into America, or Europe, or wherever. To understand why, consider what I call the Nairobi Tabletop Scenario.

Imagine a doctor who departs from Monrovia, the capital of Liberia, feeling fine, on a flight to Nairobi, Kenya's capital, in East Africa. In transit he begins suffering a headache-nothing terrible yet, just discomfort, but it's the first hint of Ebola. At the Nairobi airport, in a café, the Liberian doctor coughs onto a table. Five minutes later, an American businessman touches that table. He rubs his eye. He departs to Singapore and spends three days there, in good health, discussing finance for his project in Kenya. Then he flies home to Los Angeles. To the screeners at LAX, he is an American businessman arriving from Singapore, with no history of recent travel in West Africa. But he's now infected with Ebola, carrying it into the United States.

How do you defend against the Nairobi Tabletop Scenario? By doing everything possible to end the epidemic in West Africa, and thereby to ensure that the Liberian doctor is healthy when he visits Nairobi.

[uppityperson]

78. Thank you, that is a very clear explanation. eom

[customerserviceguy]

91. You do both

Contain and treat. What's so difficult to understand about that?

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. Wouldn't it be worth it if it got votes? n/t

[arcane1]

37. Why do we need to lead? Many other countries are more at risk.

[customerserviceguy]

39. He needs to show the American people

that he's doing everything he can to stop this. Hell, I don't even expect him to be persuasive, just calling for a worldwide travel ban on passengers from West Africa (even if he wants to reverse himself on November 5th) would be something.

[nilesobek]

43. The ugly freight train spectre

of a Republican landslide looms over this ebola crisis. The mood of the country has changed in the last few weeks since the Dallas mistakes. Republicans must be secretly rooting for more spread of ebola as this has elevated their numbers 20%. PBO should restrict travel until the etiology and epidemiology of this disease is clearly defined and controlled, otherwise, we Democrats may be undermined for years.

[customerserviceguy]

47. You are so right

This has turned into a political nightmare, with Rethuglicans on the offense, and our President looking like a helpless bystander.

By the way, love your avitar, I'm from Washington State, and am a rabid Seahawks fan!

[nilesobek]

52. Hey thanks. The 'Hawks won it all

last year so I can relax these days. I love President Obama and fully support him and will vote Democratic again, across the board, but...I'm worried about the political fallout of the ebola crisis. When I come on DU I listen to Dr.s who know what they are talking about but typical voters I'm running into and talking to at work and elsewhere are very loudly protesting against this policy by PBO. These folks I've been talking to are NOT held to any behavioral standards like on some message boards and chatrooms. So awful, racist, profane and ignorant I cannot even repeat them.

The last time I felt this vibe was in 1980 when Carter was in trouble because of the Iranian Hostage Crisis.

[customerserviceguy]

60. I remember that crisis

And I remember walking by the Republicon HQ in Seattle on that evening in November, 1980 on my way to the bus. They were jubilant, and I found out the reason why when I turned on my own TV at home an hour later. That's one of the things about living on the West Coast, you're aware early in the night about what happened in the country every two years.

At least Jimmy Carter tried to send a rescue to our hostages in Iran, it's too bad that we were so ill-prepared to do the job right. I wish I could see the President as a leader rather than as a bewildered bystander in what might be the most important domestic crisis of his Presidency.

Yes, I was the only adult wearing a Seahawk shirt in the 200+ gathering at the banquet hall down the Jersey Shore where I watched the victory, and even though I didn't win any of the betting pools, nor any of the 60" TV's raffled off to those in attendance, I was the happiest man in the room. At the end of the game, the restroom attendant's approximately five year old son (yeah, it was that fancy of a place) had a Seahawk shirt on, and I fist bumped him and said, "Hey big guy, we did it!" to the delight of his father.

But it still hurt big time last Sunday with that home loss to Dallas...

[Bluenorthwest]

97. I remember when Republican Ronald Reagan sat in the White House and watched 20,000 Americans

die from HIV/AIDS and another 50,000 become infected before he bothered to so much as speak about it. He and his Republican Party ignored the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans. They took no action at all.
So that's what they did in the face of mass domestic death and contagion. Nothing.

[customerserviceguy]

116. The average American citizen

had a disconnect with those who died of AIDS.

One of the first university classes I ever had was Psych 101. One of the lectures was on the concept of "blaming the victim", and theories as to why people do that. From my background, I simply couldn't imagine people doing that.

However, forty years of living live since then has taught me that it's true, people go to great lengths to find reasons why what happened to a victim could not happen to them ( i.e. "he was in the wrong neighborhood" "she shouldn't have dressed like that&quot and thus go back to their comfort zone and ignore the problem.

Reagan and the Republicons could label this a "gay" disease, and get away with doing nothing. You can't do that with Ebola.

[DebJ]

76. So he should succumb to the hysteria and the hysterical.

Yep, that's leadership.

[pathansen]

59. You are correct. And believe me, Democrats will lose BIG TIME in this election if Ebola spreads!

[customerserviceguy]

66. It's already spread

And there are dozens of people in the US on at least voluntary quarantine, and hundreds who have been in the cabins of aircraft with potential Ebola carriers, even if the 'carrier' turned out to be OK.

One test of whether something has impact is the "Can it happen to me?" test. Benghazi failed that test, because the average voter could say, "Well, I'd never go to Libya (or any Muslim country) under any circumstances, so this couldn't affect me" but this Ebola crisis makes it very, very difficult for the average person to say that they'd absolutely never, ever encounter someone with this virus. That's where the danger is.

Elections are not often won in landslides, usually there are less than ten percentage points between the winner and the loser, and that means that a shift of a mere five percent of the electorate could very well decide an AWFUL lot of our elections. Being as there are anywhere from ten to twenty percent of an electorate in that mushy middle who decide the weekend before an election who to vote for, it's not looking really good for our side. Those folks usually vote for whom they fear the least.

What may have been a minor six-year drift towards the side not holding the White House could turn into the wave election that the Republicons have been salivating about.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. Sorry no, not even Ted Cruz would bomb the airports

That's about as ludicrous as Todd Kincannon suggesting we execute ebola victims.

[Bluenorthwest]

96. What did an actual Republican President do when faced with a new and deadly virus in America?

The answer is absolutely nothing, he did not even mention it until there had been over 20,000 American deaths. Reagan. HIV/AIDS. He did nothing, he said nothing for years and years. By the time he did speak about it, in addition to the 20,000 dead there were 50,000 infected in the US.
So this theory that Republicans snap into action when faced with a health crisis is not only absurd, it is offensive when taken in the context of historic reality.

[Caretha]

29. First off

I'm the only one so far who has rec'd your thread.

your 4th point

Finally, this is an election year and Obama's decision may cause Democrats to lose a significant amount of votes

I really don't give a shit, mainly because it is not relevant to this issue and who knows and at this point who cares.

Your other points have some validity.

After 911 we shut down every god damned fucking plane in America except for those carrying the Saudi Royals with the last name Bin Laden out of her and to safety - so screw the economic excuse they are touting.

Do we need to curtail the possibility of flying people with Ebola into the US - Hell yes we do!! There are so many work-arounds to help those in Africa with the disease, while we still try to maintain the least amount of infections and exposure here as possible.

I'm gong to be very blunt & might piss a bunch off on DU, but this needs to be said.

This administration's (lead by President Barack Obama) reaction & position on this issue is insane, irresponsible & unforgivable. It is as insane and irresponsible as George W. Bush's war on Iraq was.

God help us and hope and pray that there are fewer innocent deaths here and elsewhere caused by this administrations' mis-administration than the one before caused.

[uppityperson]

32. I agree that they should have sent more aid, more help, wayyyy before this to help contain the

epidemic. Waiting until over 4000 people had died and only until 1 in our country had is unforgiveable. Blocking aid to the affected countries, cutting public health care money in the USA? Awful!!

[arcane1]

36. What are other nations, who have direct flights to Africa, doing about this?

And which of their actions, if any, should we adopt?

[Caretha]

41. There are plenty of examples

google them and see if you like any of them or think they might have it right or wrong.

I stand by my post. You are welcome to make suggestions, not that will make any difference.

IMNSFHO - we have a bunch of idiots from the top down trying to figure this out, and they all have about the same level of intelligence as the nurse who decided to go look at white dresses in Ohio so she could get married has.

I'd use the rolling eyes icon if it even came close to the amount of disdain I have for these so called specialist and leaders (elected officials). Fuck even in the middle ages when the bubonic plague was rampant - they had more stringent guidelines.

[pathansen]

64. 35 countries have already banned flights

[arcane1]

65. Link? I only know of three right now:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2014/10/jamaica-bans-travelers-from-ebola-hit-nations-201410162286423133.html

[840high]

70. i rec'd this thread.

[Warpy]

31. They'd have to suspend all air traffic from outside the country

because flights from West Africa often connect in western Europe or even Brazil. Imagine the fallout from grounding all overseas air traffic.

Ebola generally takes 7-14 days to show up, although some cases have taken as long as 21 days.

People who share airline cabins with sickening Ebola patients are simply at extremely low risk. The disease is 80% fatal without treatment. If they want to live, they need to know to go to a hospital if they suddenly spike a high fever. It's most likely to be malaria (it's the rainy season), but they need to be tested and treated.

Sending troops to Liberia to protect clinics from superstitious mobs is a good thing. As long as they have no physical contact with sick people and stay upwind of the decontamination area, they will be fine.

Democrats need to be proactive and link the poor protection of our nurses and a lack of work on a vaccine to Republican cost cutting frenzies.

Panic is a million times more dangerous than this disease is. Unless you are a nurse, you are at extremely low risk of this one.

The bravest people in the world now are the people who go to remote villages in Africa looking for the sick. They don't wear protective gear because it frightens people in the villages. There is a heavy plastic separation between the driver's seat and the back of the van, but it's not well sealed. They are doing this because they know that it's the only way to quarantine the sick. They very rarely come down with it.

[rusty fender]

34. Ebola wars

We have to fight it over there so we don't have to fight it over here.

[riverwalker]

40. The troops will have quarantine

when they return. They are getting pretty extensive training. Full TYVEK and PAPR. I believe the Army knows how to deal with this and keep them safe. (I have to )

:large
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[MattBaggins]

53. For fucking fuckidies sake

An election year should have fuck all to do with a medical issue.

[Caretha]

58. I said that earlier :)

[MattBaggins]

62. More eloquently as well

[Marrah_G]

67. I disagree with many things the president has done or not done

His response to Ebola is not one of them.

[DebJ]

71. Consider this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141015-ebola-virus-outbreak-pandemic-zoonotic-contagion/#at_pco=cfd-1.0&at_ab=-&at_pos=0&at_tot=4&at_si=544091c00302f82c


''The world won't be free of Ebola 2014 until West Africa is free of it. Even severe restrictions, barring entry to anyone traveling from West Africa, would not make it impossible for the virus to get into America, or Europe, or wherever. To understand why, consider what I call the Nairobi Tabletop Scenario.

Imagine a doctor who departs from Monrovia, the capital of Liberia, feeling fine, on a flight to Nairobi, Kenya's capital, in East Africa. In transit he begins suffering a headache-nothing terrible yet, just discomfort, but it's the first hint of Ebola. At the Nairobi airport, in a café, the Liberian doctor coughs onto a table. Five minutes later, an American businessman touches that table. He rubs his eye. He departs to Singapore and spends three days there, in good health, discussing finance for his project in Kenya. Then he flies home to Los Angeles. To the screeners at LAX, he is an American businessman arriving from Singapore, with no history of recent travel in West Africa. But he's now infected with Ebola, carrying it into the United States.

How do you defend against the Nairobi Tabletop Scenario? By doing everything possible to end the epidemic in West Africa, and thereby to ensure that the Liberian doctor is healthy when he visits Nairobi.'

[uppityperson]

82. Again. thank you for the easy to understand example of why banning flights won't work.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

115. "...would not make it impossible for the disease to spread..."

Since when did limiting the speed and scope of the spread while combatting it with treatment become a bad idea?

No one thing will stop any disease. It takes a coordinated, holistic approach.

[SoCalDem]

86. Who pays the bills of the people who will be out of work for 3 weeks?

Who pays the guards to watch and verify their status daily?
Where do they live during their isolation/quarantine?
What if they spike a fever on the afternoon of their 22nd day? (and they are here)

I have read that the "real" incubation period could be as long as 42...not 21 days..
read this article from Tuesday

the best way is to:

eradicate the disease/create a vaccine/create pharmaceutical treatments
CLEANUP THE FILTHY LIVING CONDITIONS WHERE MANY OF THESE PEOPLE LIVE
make sure they have adequate food, so they do not butcher "bush meat"

[LittleBlue]

101. African countries are trying to tell us what to do

But we aren't listening. Border closings, air traffic restrictions, screenings. Zimbabwe did 21-day surveillance.

If we'd done this, Duncan never makes it into the US

[upaloopa]

102. What crisis? How many dead? His many patients?

How wide spread?

[Puzzledtraveller]

106. No it doesn't make sense.

The average voter, dem or republican will vote on what they believe will effect them and we can go on about who's to blame forever, msm, whatever, it doesn't matter when they come out to vote and vote based on fear and anger we will not like the results.

[randome]

113. What is his 'solution' to AIDS? To the common cold?

People need to calm the fuck down.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[frazzled]

121. "Ebola symptoms may take weeks to even show up"

You do know your argument makes no sense and is based on ignorance and fear, not facts. Ebola cannot be transmitted by an asymptomatic patient. So no one on a flight with a person infected with Ebola, but with no symptoms, could possibly catch it.

Asymptomatic individuals aren't contagious, as Ebola is only transmitted through direct contact with bodily fluids of an infected and symptomatic person.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/16/ebola-infections-with-no-symptoms-are-possible-and-they-could-help-end-the-west-africa-epidemic/

Before you criticize the president for following the advice of medical and epidemiological experts, you should try getting the very basic facts—facts that have been widely disseminated for weeks—straight.