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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm a Hazmat-Trained Hospital Worker: Here's What No One Is Telling You About Ebola
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.htmlEbola is brilliant.
It is a superior virus that has evolved and fine-tuned its mechanism of transmission to be near-perfect. That's why we're all so terrified. We know we can't destroy it. All we can do is try to divert it, outrun it.
I've worked in health care for a few years now. One of the first things I took advantage of was training to become FEMA-certified for hazmat ops in a hospital setting. My rationale for this was that, in my home state of Maine, natural disasters are almost a given. We're also, though you may not know it, a state that has many major ports that receive hazardous liquids from ships and transport them inland. In the back of my mind, of course, I was aware that any hospital in the world could potentially find itself at the epicenter of a scene from The Hot Zone. That was several years ago. Today I'm thinking, by God, I might actually have to use this training. Mostly, though, I'm aware of just that -- that I did receive training. Lots of it. Because you can't just expect any nurse or any doctor or any health care worker or layperson to understand the deconning procedures by way of some kind of pamphlet or 10-minute training video. Not only is it mentally rigorous, but it's physically exhausting.
PPE, or, personal protective equipment, is sort of a catch-all phrase for the suits, booties, gloves, hoods and in many cases respirators worn by individuals who are entering a hot zone. These suits are incredibly difficult to move in. You are wearing several layers of gloves, which limits your dexterity to basically nil, the hoods limit the scope of your vision -- especially your peripheral vision, which all but disappears. The suits are hot -- almost unbearably so. The respirator gives you clean air, but not cool air. These suits are for protection, not comfort. Before you even suit up, your vitals need to be taken. You can't perform in the suit for more than about a half hour at a time -- if you make it that long. Heat stroke is almost a given at that point. You have to be fully hydrated and calm before you even step into the suit. By the time you come out of it, and your vitals are taken again, you're likely to be feeling the impact -- you may not have taken more than a few steps in the suit, but you'll feel like you've run a marathon on a 90-degree day.
<snip>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)In case you havent heard, no one on DU can get ebola. No need to worry
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)mark67
(196 posts)I'm sorry this tender, little waif found the PPE uncomfortable.
At Fort Stewart "back in the day" we used to go out to the field in the summer and someone had the brilliant idea that we'd wear MOPP gear for 75% of the exercise. With temps and humidity around 90 no one ever collapsed from heat exhaustion. It sucked, but you drink water and your body adjusts.
We can and will beat ebola. Okay you guys can flame me now...
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and I'll bet that when you were removing your biohazards suits after your exercise, you didn't have to worry about getting even a micron of contamination on the outside of your suits onto your skin.
Doctors that have returned from working with Ebola patients have described the conditions. It gets to 115F inside the suits. It takes them a couple hours to rehydrate after a 1 1/2 hour shift, before they can go back to work another shift. And I've also read that it takes 45 minutes to decontaminate and safely remove the suits.
And some of the doctors and nurses doing this are in the 50s and 60s, not their 20s or 30s. These are not young people training for war. Whole different ball game.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)spit on my Samsung. Now I have to go get one of those stupid little packets.
Darb
(2,807 posts)Seems like you are trying to instill fear and doubt via sarcasm. What is your motivation exactly? I doubt to help our nation get through this problem in the best and fastest and least hysterical way, at least from my vantage point.
Many here have read mucho about Ebola in the past, myself in the recent past. I understand the difficulties with regard to the protocols, especially those suits, and beyond, like disposing of waste. But for some reason I am not here making sarcastic remarks about people on this board posting about the realities of Ebola infection. What do you want, everyone piling on trying to come up with every imaginable worst-case scenario whether factual and plausible or not? That would be great fun.
You might consider chilling and letting this play out a bit.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Who is instilling fear??
The OP talks about "a superior virus that has evolved and fine-tuned its mechanism of transmission to be near-perfect" and "we're all terrified ... we can only try to out run it"
I didn't say any such thing.
"Ebola panic" can definitely be kicked down the road at this point. Remember, Reagan only talked about AIDs (another disease originating from Africa) after 20,000 Americans were infected. AIDs isn't anything I am worried about 30 years later, so we shouldn't worry about ebola right now either. That's my point.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)None of the crew on the medic flight that has handled 11 Ebola patients has contracted Ebola..NONE.
that shows we can handle this IF the protocols are followed.
I am also a Decontam instructor as the OP.
The suits are uncomfortable, but the discomfort beats Ebola by a damn mile.
And if you are sloppy in doffing the protective gear, you may as well have walked into the room without the gear.
These steps will protect you ONLY if you follow them every single time..
The people who contracted Ebola in America had direct contact with the victim and they obviously were not using at minimum, universal precautions...If they did, they didn't follow protocols for doffing the gear they used...
We can beat Ebola, bleach wipes kills it on hard surfaces, in larger quantities, housekeeping is trained in proper cleaning procedures... worry is ok, it shows you are paying attention. Stop the panic.
valerief
(53,235 posts)of them on DU.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)progressoid
(49,947 posts)And have been kind of gassy.
Logical
(22,457 posts)progressoid
(49,947 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)hurp derp derp!!!1!
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)I distinctly remember Senator Ted Stevens (moment of silence) saying that the internets travel through a series of tubes. We just have to make sure to keep the tubes cleaned regularly with a solution that contains bleach.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)"To hear that the nurses in Dallas reported that there were no protocols at their hospital broke my heart. Their health care system failed them. In the United States we always talk about how the health care system is failing patients, but the truth is, it has failed its employees too. Not just doctors and nurses, but allied health professionals as well. "
"We have the technology, and we certainly have the money to keep Ebola at bay. What we don't have is communication. What we don't have is a health care system that values preventative care. What we don't have is an equal playing field between nurses and physicians and allied health professionals and patients. What we don't have is a culture of health where we work symbiotically with one another and with the technology that was created specifically to bridge communication gaps, but has in so many ways failed. What we don't have is the social culture of transparency, what we don't have is a stopgap against mounting hysteria and hypochondria, what we don't have is nation of health literate individuals. We don't even have health-literate professionals. Most doctors are specialists and are well versed only in their field. Ask your orthopedist a general question about your health -- see if they can comfortably answer it.We have the technology, and we certainly have the money to keep Ebola at bay. What we don't have is communication. What we don't have is a health care system that values preventative care. What we don't have is an equal playing field between nurses and physicians and allied health professionals and patients. What we don't have is a culture of health where we work symbiotically with one another and with the technology that was created specifically to bridge communication gaps, but has in so many ways failed. What we don't have is the social culture of transparency, what we don't have is a stopgap against mounting hysteria and hypochondria, what we don't have is nation of health literate individuals. We don't even have health-literate professionals. Most doctors are specialists and are well versed only in their field. Ask your orthopedist a general question about your health -- see if they can comfortably answer it.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)were transferred there - or was it that they fell ill while in Dallas and therefore it made sense they ended up there?
Here in California, we don't even have much of a health care system in place. UCSF in San Francisco is wonderful, but don't get sick in Marin County (even though that is one of the most affluent areas of the world.) The personnel hired on at hospitals there are usually travelling nurses, or else nurses' aides, and often the aides don't even speak English. (It is a legal state requirement that when working within an area that is English speaking, that English be spoken, but the hospital admins look the other way as it is so much cheaper to just hire the people who will work for less.)
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)So many people are screaming this virus has gone airborne - it hasn't.
It's just that when you are around someone with Ebola, especially in the late stages of the infection - that person is all about the Ebola. That person is ooze body fluids from every pore of that body and there is a chance that some of that body fluid could be going projectile. So it's pretty easy to come in contact with this body fluid IF someone isn't properly protected especially if they are not expecting Ebola in the first place, like the doctors & nurses at that hospital in Dallas.
Now imagine you are hospital works over in a West African Hospital in a room with dozen of Ebola patients. I'm guessing every surface in that ward is probably covered with some kind of expelled body fluid that is probably teaming with the virus. It's pretty easy to come in contact again if there isn't proper protection. And I know these workers over in Africa have protection but some of this protection is getting worn out and these workers are getting worn out so mistakes are happening.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)the world. At these plants workers have been wearing similar ppe for decades and doing all kinds of hard physical work.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts).... most do not have to wear special gear unless for a very short period of time they have to get into a hot area of the plant.
Remember "Silkwood"? Decontamination showers are used far more often if a hot particle is detected than requiring people to suit up.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)paper can stop alpha particles. The key is distance. Using a pole to carry a radio active source container is much easier than the thick heavy special garb that must be warn to be close enough to the source (patient) to protect it from the viral particles. Ebola is kind of like soap in that it has polarized projections that are magnetic. Getting the patient on dialysis with magnetic collection early in the infection is key. Duncan was started very late.
Don't know for sure but the new medicines probably uses structured magnetic particles like soap so that one end clings on to the virus and the other end of the medicine clings (Static sling) on to a blood protein that can be filtered by other dialysis procedures or breakdown in the liver.
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PLXB_enUS602US603&q=Antibody+action+against+Ebola+virus
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Ebola is nothing like soap. It does not have magnetic projections. "Magnetic collection" will do nothing for ebola.
Duncan was on dialysis because his kidneys were failing.
There's a lot of wrong in what you posted.
Soap works by having a hydrophobic end and a hydrophilic end. By having one side that will dissolve in water and one side that will dissolve in fat, it allows water to wash away fats that would normally not react with the water at all. The soap molecule "bridges" the fat and water.
Duncan was given Brincidofovir, a broad-spectrum antiviral that theoretically should not work against ebola, but is being tried and shows some promise.
ZMapp is a monoclonal antibody, which Duncan did not get. You were probably thinking of ZMapp when you created what you posted. Antibodies have shapes that allow them to bind to a virus often referred to as "lock and key". Some antibodies work as a "bridge" by binding to a virus on one "end" and having another "end" that causes the immune system to collect and dispose of it. While that bridging is similar in functionality, it is not the same mechanism as soap.
ZMapp does not work in that fashion, it simply binds to the virus particle and prevents the virus from binding to a cell. By occupying the sites that the virus would use to attach to a cell and infect the cell, ZMapp "gums up" the virus and prevents it from working.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)The only reason for dialysis in an Ebola patient is to unnecessarily extend life by maybe a few more days and while they are suffering. The virus replicates too fast for dialysis to kill it. Dialysis is not and has never been a cure - there IS no known cure for Ebola though there are a few experimental things that seem to help at least in most of the few people who have gotten them. By the time an infected person is likely to even show enough of the virus in their blood to test positive there is already too much virus for dialysis to get rid of it. All the dialysis does is unnecessarily prolong life and only by a few days. It is also too high risk for health care workers to do.
A blood transfusion from the blood of a survivor seems to have benefit by using something in a survivor's blood that is capable of killing the virus or killing enough of it so that the patient's own body has enough time and is strong enough so that their own anti-virus can kill it off.
The only reason to do dialysis at all is because the kidneys are shutting down and not able to do the job sufficiently themselves. Dialysis by itself is too hard on the body when what is needed to fight off the disease is to make the patient as comfortable as can be so that it can function well enough on its own to fight off the disease. When the kidneys are functioning properly you don't WANT to be doing any dialysis - there is no reason to, and by doing so you're only making it that much harder on the body to fight off the disease on its own.
Most people that die from Ebola seem to die because of severe dehydration from all the vomiting and diarrhea which weakens them and thus weakens their body's ability to fight off the disease. This is why trying to keep a patient hydrated as much as possible for as long as possible for the body to fight it off on its own is key. Some make it, some don't, but the odds are better if the patient can maintain hydration. The only care for an Ebola patient is minimal care such as trying to keep the body hydrated even with pushing fluids by way of IV and medications to try to control the amount of vomiting and diarrhea so that the body can try to fight it off on its own.
Just as the CDC - who actually got this one right though after the fact - dialysis and ventilation were only end of life measures that would not have cured him and were too high risk to caregivers to do.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Where'd you do your virology PhD, doc?
Tin foil hats for everyone! To the shelters!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)anti-contamination gear. Not sure what a "hot particle accident" is and I've never seen anyone use a "decontamination shower".
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)I work for a company that operates class 10 clean rooms with hundreds of workers that spend as much as 8 or 10 hours a day wearing some serious PPE. I have a desk job so I don't work in any of the clean rooms, but I interact with them on a daily basis, and I never hear them complain about claustrophobia. During my training I had to go through the full donning procedure and spend a couple of hours touring the facility, but other than some serious sweat, it wasn't that bad.
The only difference I can see between the gear I encounter at work and the gear I see in the photo is the respirator and duct tape. I dunno, maybe there's something different in the medical gear that I'm not seeing.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)protective clothing. Not to protect us but to protect the equipment. Thanks for reminding me.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)eradicated because it is endemic to regions of Central Africa, and it's primary host, most likely fruit bats, has not been identified in 40 years and the West African variation (mutation), the current one of 5 variations. So you are right in what you say, but not completing the whole picture.
And being trained in suits is not epidemiology or virology, your need more training for that.
Mandatory reading:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141015-ebola-virus-outbreak-pandemic-zoonotic-contagion/
cali
(114,904 posts)it is possible that it will be eradicated. Smallpox was, and it's a virus.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Inoculation of the human population eradicated smallpox. You can't do that with a virus with an animal reservoir that's unidentified.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)just like all other viruses. Nothing makes this 5th version of ebola virus special. Other than the media fear mongering that is.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)To realise that in Gire's publication, the work he and his colleagues did was groundbreaking, but his colleagues all died of ebola!
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)You should consider posting an OP about the article. It would really help inform people on what is important and not important to consider when developing public health policy in dealing with this disease.
Thanks,again.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Tracking a Serial Killer: Could Ebola Mutate To Become More Deadly? National Geographic answers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025677740
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)Thanks for letting me know.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)picture. Looks very old...Is that like a break room in a hospital?
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)All the cool kids are using it today.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)with your phone to look like old pictures, then automatically post it to facebook and twitter.
It's all easy one click stuff. As a graphic designer/photographer, I hate it.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)underpants
(182,613 posts)She must have heard a lot of a Young Frankenstein jokes especially since she is in rife scientific/medical field.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)They have suits that are probably 100 times better and more comfortable. We don't have astronauts too hot or cold in space.
xocet
(3,871 posts)F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)NASA should be talked to. They could probably work with other companies to develop a better suit. Their current suits, however, won't work. They are designed for completely different purposes.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)HAZMAT sucks, you can be as far away from claustrophobic as possible and still feel the anxiety creeping up on you working in these suits. I would prefer blacked out search training with full turn out and air in a rat maze then wear full HAZMAT suit and your mental resolve has to be like steel for rigorous search training.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)I remember USAF firefighters as major party animals
oops, sorry, went off topic
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)HAZMAT training with a hangover is a very bad experience. (true story)
Yes, we got carried away quite often.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)I worked in the CBPO.......I remember dealing with hungover fire guys
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)That's an odd metaphor.
<<It is a superior virus that has evolved and fine-tuned its mechanism of transmission to be near-perfect.>>
Its a virus. It spreads by contact with the body fluids. It's neither airborne nor waterborne. I might argue that the common cold virus has more nearly perfected its transmission (airborne transmission, leaves the host alive) but I assume the claims were meant more for emphasis than as statements of fact.
<<That's why we're all so terrified. We know we can't destroy it. All we can do is try to divert it, outrun it.>>
If by "destroy" we mean "eradicate from the earth" then that is unlikely. But we can destroy it locally with bleach and other disinfectants.
Ebola virus is deadly serious. She's not wrong about that. She's right that health care workers should always bear in mind the seriousness of the work they do and the great importance of using all necessary precautions.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)"She's right that health care workers should always bear in mind the seriousness of the work they do and the great importance of using all necessary precautions."
And they need to be provided the necessary PPEs, trained in dressing and removing them, and sufficiently staffed to support the "buddy system" where somebody person helps you dress and undress to ensure no accidental exposure.
"If by "destroy" we mean "eradicate from the earth" then that is unlikely. But we can destroy it locally with bleach and other disinfectants."
I read that as destroy once it's in your body. Right now, all we can do is provide supportive care to keep you alive and minimize organ damage as long as possible until your body is hopefully able to develop enough antibodies to stop it before the kill you.
There is some exaggeration in her article, however. She may at one time have been a hazmat trained hospital worker, but unless there are 2 people in healthcare with her name in Maine (which is always a possibility here due to the insularity) her linked in profile shows her as a marketing/science writer working at a healthcare consultant focussed on increasing profits at hospitals. Just google healthcare, her name and Maine.
So the company that she works at may well be the one that slashed and burned staffing where I work, and now is crying tears over the results of their type of work.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Besides, all this scare-mongering is only bigotry designed to destroy the economies of 3 West African countries by potentially interfering with the vacation plans of a handful of visa holders.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Like they do with the astronauts?
It should be pretty easy to do, particularly if the wearer stays in a single room - have a hose with chilled air going into the suit.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)at Emory.
Probably expensive, but I think any major hospital should consider investing in such.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Initech
(100,038 posts)JoeyT
(6,785 posts)It is a superior virus that has evolved and fine-tuned its mechanism of transmission to be near-perfect.
Certainly. That's why when there's an ebola outbreak, it spreads across huge areas unchecked, only stoppable by immunizing a large percentage of the population.
Wait, that was mumps, measels, influenza, etc. Ebola's the one that usually pops up, kills a few hundred people, and vanishes again. It's only gotten as far as it has this time through multiple acts of unbelievable stupidity or carelessness.
Ebola is pretty much the opposite of "near perfect". Unlike most viral diseases, you're not really contagious before you show symptoms...so you don't have a "healthy" person walking around spreading it.
And that's not even getting into her ridiculous melodramatics about PPE.
deafskeptic
(463 posts)f it ever became airborne, I would be really concerned. It's unlikely that it will mutate into an airborne virus though.
I think it can be contained in America - provided that proper protocols are followed. But given what I have heard about Africa, I'm much more concerned about Ebola there.
I'm more concerned about my flu shots than Ebola in America so I'm getting my shots today. Doctors made it clear to me how important it is for me to get flu shots as a diabetic. Just because I almost never catch colds or flu doesn't mean I can get complacent .
I think far more Americans will die of flu than Ebola this year.