Wow. New report on the struggle between Wilson and Brown

[boomer55]

2 shots fired in car. 1 hit brown and one missed

The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown’s blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson’s uniform. Officer Wilson told the authorities that Mr. Brown had punched and scratched him repeatedly, leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck.


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html?_r=1&referrer=

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

1. I'm still reading this, but...

...umm...who cares? I mean, how does this impact what most of the eyewitnesses say they saw? Mike Brown was attempting to surrender, and he was shot and murdered.

[boomer55]

3. Via the grand jury there is eyewitness stating brown did not have his hands up and not obeying

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/witness-adds-new-perspective-to-ferguson-shooting/article_ab6e1e03-c49a-5c7f-8786-b0e88ec79349.html?mobile_touch=true

[spanone]

4. via the man that was with mr brown, he was pulled into the car...then shots fired

no new perspective....

[malaise]

6. Correct

is right

[kelliekat44]

62. That's why Bown's blood is on the gun. He shot him first when he tried to pull him into the car. n

[riverwalker]

7. straight out to side is the same thing as up

Brown put his arms out to his sides but never raised his hands high.

Brown never put his hands straight up, but held his elbows straight out from his torso, with palms turned up in a sort of gesture of disbelief.

[scarystuffyo]

13. Sometimes it could be hard

to raise your hands straight up when you just had a bullet go through your arm...just saying

[uponit7771]

17. +1, and never raised his hands "high" means he did raise his hands. "high" is an objective term

... that should be of no factor from the yellowed article.

There's people trying to excuse this crap all over the place...

Heard on NPR that people of color aren't being killed at higher rates by cops its just more cameras....

Like saying they're not killing 100... they're only killing 30 of them...

[sheshe2]

29. And when did the shot to the eye come?

Michael was chased down and shot to death. As we well know, uponit. Yes they are trying to excuse it! Not fricking happening!

As for NPR....they became RW years ago and I stopped listening.

[tblue37]

58. Do you mean a *subjective* term? nt

[JaneyVee]

9. Same witness who said Wilson used excessive force and

There was no need to kill Mike Brown, that Brown was 25ft away stumbling to the ground when Wilson unloaded on him. Put Wilson on trial.

[hfojvt]

66. yeah that witness does not make Wilson look good

If Brown was just 25 feet away and only "stumbling" towards Wilson that is not a good reason to shoot.

[uponit7771]

15. This is false, there's no eyewitness's saying that from your article....

[pnwmom]

72. "Staggering" doesn't imply deliberate disobeying.It's what someone does when they're falling forward

which makes sense because he'd already been shot.

And with the distance of 20-25 feet the officer wasn't at risk.

[bravenak]

2. Then he chased him down and shot him in the head so he couldn't tell his side of the story.

Mr. Brown's friend already said the cop grabbed Mike and was trying to pull him into the car and ge was srtuggling to free himself. Then he ran from the shooter and was shot over and over again while surrendering. I do not believe the police departments version. They still haven't realeased anything of note. The story changes to suit the evidence. None of the stories explain why the cop had to run the boy down and shoot him over and over and over.. They act like slave catchers.

[boomer55]

5. Read the above story from another eyewitness

[ChiciB1]

11. You Know, So Much Time Has Passed Since The

incident, I find this story so hard to believe. ANY and ALL of this could have been said from DAY ONE! Plus, has anyone forgotten how long the body laid in the street before it was removed? What's their EXCUSE for that???

[bettyellen]

21. their offical excuse is to blame the crowd that gathered, they were scared of them....

Crazy, huh?

[TorchTheWitch]

25. Most of it was said from day one

The police said that Brown and the officer got into a struggle over the officer's gun. They said that at least one shot was fired inside the car. They said that the officer had a swollen face. Other than the other blood details none of this is new. DU just decided to conveniently forget it so they could go on their cop hate outrage.

As for the body laying in the street for so long it had to be in order to do the usual forensic testing. It was however, covered with a large towel or blanket and then a makeshift bunch of tarps were used to surround the body. Bodies DO stay in place while forensics are done though the chief did make a public apology that it was for as long as it was before the body was removed though we don't know if that was because forensics found it necessary or not.

Any other police shooting is handled the same and with a lot less information until the investigation is complete. Why this one is apparently supposed to be handled to some other standard is a good question no one seems to have an answer for. The grand jury is still sitting, investigations have been done that were wanted to be done, and for some reason everyone here likes to think that everything about it should be public when it NEVER IS and for good reason.

I seemed to be the only one here that said time after time that we should wait to find out everything from the investigations once they're completed so we can find out the truth of the matter and was repeatedly shouted down by angry cop hating mobs here. Now that those investigations seem to be done and there is finally information about what was discovered being revealed the same people are whining why didn't we get this information before. Well, DUH. No one wanted to hear it then, and now they're mad that investigations aren't turning out how they would like when much of it WAS known from day one but conveniently ignored.

[NaturalHigh]

26. "I seemed to be the only one here that said"...

I've said it too and been called a troll for it. There was one poll posted on here that basically implied that anyone who didn't just flat-out call this murder-by-cop was a troll. The racist thing gets thrown around a lot too.

[jwirr]

61. Yes, most of this was visible to the eye. Blood on the gun, car door and uniform. Michael was the

only one bleeding in this story. They could of and should have released this the first thing. However, this does not make the type of shooting any more palatable.

[GeorgeGist]

65. Figuring how to fix the scene.

This latest is a con job. IMO

[uponit7771]

14. ALL of the "eye" witness's are pretty consistent ... Wilson start this shit... shot at Brown from th

... the back... brown was shot WHILE his hands were up

All of that = Wilson goes to jail

[treestar]

37. He didn't know about the store

Quit using that as an excuse. He was not arresting Brown for anything.

[PCIntern]

42. Wow!

[freshwest]

46. What did he say that time? I was on the Jury that PPR'd him for an amazing comment on this thread.

[pinboy3niner]

47. The one the jury saw was the most blatantly racist comment

The others were tamer, though still racist. (I was the alerter.)

[PCIntern]

48. Something about punks having to die or the equivalent..nt

[freshwest]

51. OMG, that's worse than the tripe I juried, which was exceptional rubbish. Thanks.

[bettyellen]

20. ^^exactly this^^

[sheshe2]

30. Yes he did., bravenak.

Wilson went a hunting, staked out his prey and shot him down with out remorse. No fricking remorse and only now his "story" comes out. Give me a break!

[freshwest]

53. 'They act like slave catchers.' The sight of an unfettered black man is abnormal to them.

[riverwalker]

8. does not explain

why he then left the SUV and chased down a wounded, stumbling Brown and continued to shoot the fatal shots. Not the actions of one "fearing for his life".

Since Wilson never gave a statement he has had lots of time to create a story, and his friends on the police force giving lots of assistance, I'm sure.

[uponit7771]

12. +1, how is any objective jury supposed to believe ANYTHING Wilson says now? If everything was on

... the up and up about what he did there'd be no reason to wait months to file an incident report.

My understanding him not filing an incident report is breaking the law

There's something not right about the officials in Ferguson... time for all of them to go... I pray the voting lines are full this November

[Travis_0004]

23. wilson has a 5th amendment right to not fill out or say anything.

[uponit7771]

27. Only if he suspects he could incriminate himself... Why would he suspect that? because he was doing

... something illegal and he knows that.

PERIOD...

The incident report is a huge catch 22 for cops... less damned if you do

[Travis_0004]

34. Not true at all.

The 5th is for the guilty as well as the innocent.

[freshwest]

50. That's for a court of law, not doing your job and filling out paperwork, though. He hadn't been

Last edited Mon Oct 20, 2014, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

charged for anything, nor was he being questioned in court. His job was to fill out paperwork to justify his pay for that day. So the fifth does not apply for a person trained to make reports daily.

That's a big problem here, cops make reports all the time. He's still being paid and is still an employee but has not been in court. Yes, he was testifying to a grand jury, where AFAIK he did not plea the fifth, so he does not think he committed a crime.

No crime was alleged except in media and eyewitnesses and no explanation given. So the fifth does not apply. It is his job to explain his actions to his superiors. He did not, or they are hiding the report.

The authority to carry weapons and shoot citizens is not, in theory, one granted lightly and explaining the use of deadly force is mandatory. Wilson still is being given the benefit of the doubt and is presumed innocent, not even charged, thus no fifth.

I think bringing the fifth into this is confusing legal moves used in courtrooms and that of a mandated reporter. Ferguson is not well run, too much has happened without review. Still, he should have filled out a report unless he was fired.

He is still operating under the aegis of state authority and they are mandated to support him until process is done. He has not done his part to help them do that.

[uponit7771]

10. So report shows Brown was injured while trying to pull away?.. NO BLOOD from Wilson?... somethings

... no right about this and I don't trust the racist and thug life FPD

[Bettie]

55. If Wilson's blood was on Brown, they'd be

shouting it from the rooftops.

And yet, nothing on that.

But, some people will grab anything to say that the cop was right in shooting, well, anyone.

[Rex]

67. You would think a smashed orbital eyesocket would bleed at least a drop.

No blood from Wilson sounds very suspicious. Explains why Brown was shot on the back.

[wandy]

16. So if it didn't come from officials..................

The account of Officer Wilson’s version of events did not come from the Ferguson Police Department or from officials whose activities are being investigated as part of the civil rights inquiry.

Then it's got to be the accepted version brought to you by Josie of the RWBSF machine............

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025400792

Delay, no police report, delay some more, accept as fact the output of the Right Wing Bull Shit Fairytale machine.

Same as it ever was.
Same as Death Panels.
Same as Benghazi.

[uponit7771]

18. +1

[BuelahWitch]

28. Right Wing Bullshit Fairytale Machine!

Perfection!

[jen63]

19. Not one thing about this

is right or on the up and up, where this PD is concerned. They need to stop hiding and indict Wilson. I especially don't like the facts of the case that he was given recognition for. I'm pretty much of the opinion that he's a racist bully with a gun. A tragic combination for Mike Brown.

[onethatcares]

22. it would have been

nice to see some pictures of Wilson after this happened instead of 8 weeks after they had a chance to get the police story together.

You would think someone would have b slapped him and then taken photos showing how bad it was.

Kinda like zimmys big head bashes on the concrete.

[6000eliot]

24. I find it difficult to believe that anyone on DU is STILL trying to justify this thug's actions.

This "excuse" is too little, too late.

[Live and Learn]

31. Remember why the officer grabbed him to begin with.

Apparently Brown and his friend didn't jump when the officer told them to get out of the road. So, Officer Wilson, who had already passed them, sped backwards enraged, rolled down his window and grabbed Brown. Brown possibly (quite probably , given human nature) fought back and Wilson pulled out his gun and shot twice.

Brown realizing the officer is trying to kill him runs, Wilson gets out of the car and starts shooting round after round. Brown realizes he can't get away, turns around to surrender and Wilson finishes the deed.

That is my take on things so far. The entire episode happened because an officer was enraged that the young men did not immediately follow his orders and dared to answer back. Wilson's anger at not being OBEYED, was the cause of the tragedy that enfolded.

Officers need to be retrained to understand that they are not gods. They are first and foremost citizens that have been entrusted with authority to detain people for the public good. This authority must follow strict guidelines and only be used for the public good.

Officers cannot be allowed to continue killing people because they are having a bad day, someone gets on their nerves or they just are itching for a fight.

[BuelahWitch]

32. Wilson also should have gotten a drug test

for steroids in his blood. He was going to a second job when he got off shift at FPD. Was he using something that would keep him "up" for several hours straight?

[gollygee]

33. +1

I agree that what started it all, and what seems to start a lot of these racial killings, is a young black man not seeming obedient enough to a white man.

[Marrah_G]

49. ^this

[treestar]

39. +1

[PCIntern]

43. Double-wow!!!

[tblue37]

59. And if Wiilson did have a boo-boo on his eye, it couldn't have been too serious,

because the video of him pacing by Brown's body shows no sign that he feels any discomfort from his eye, and the other cop shows no sign of noticing any injury on him.

IF--BIG "if"!--he did get an injury to his eye, it would almost certainly have resulted from his car door bouncing back at him or from smacking his face into the door frame as he leapt out to chase down Michael Brown.

If he smacked his face on the door or the door frame, his already amped up adrenaline--his rage from not having been "adequately" submitted to by two black teens--would have gone into overdrive, which would account for his determination to "get" that kid, whom he would have blamed for his getting hurt. Abusers always blame their victims when an attempt at abusing them causes any discomfort, inconvenience, or difficulty of any sort for the abuser, and that always amps up their rage.

[Rex]

68. Agree. An officer should have more respect for life. If it has become that meaningless

then they need to find another job.

[uponit7771]

70. +1

[Euphoria]

54. Wilson is the one who ran away, hid, and colluded

so that he and/or his support system could tamper or alter any and all evidence he/they could in order to exonerate his actions leading to and following his cold-blooded murder of a teenager. All of his testimony/statements of what happened plus the forensics of gun, police car, blood and body were subject to tampering by people knowledgeable about finding and analyzing evidence and processes thereof.

Anything he says or any evidence that he or others had possession of is seriously suspect.

Ok, I'll say it: Wilson's full of *#it.

[uponit7771]

71. +1, very very overseen point... if Wilson THOUGHT he was in the right why hide in the first place?!

[KingCharlemagne]

56. This report in no way exonerates Wilson and corroborates other witness statements that the

first shot(s) were fired while both men were either in or in close proximity to Wilson's PD vehicle.

So I'm not sure I understand your 'Wow'. Do you think this somehow makes Wilson's extra-judicial execution of Brown a 'justifialbe homicide'?

Care to explain for the unwashed masses?

[socialist_n_TN]

57. There's a lot of very good logic in this thread......

tearing down this "new" story and I appreciate said logic. But for me it boils down to one simple thing. This comes out after two months in the spotlight, so in spite of the logic, I DON'T BELIEVE THE COPS!

Two months is a LOOOONG time to get your story together and plant evidence. So I DON'T BELIEVE THE COPS!

[Comrade Grumpy]

60. A jury needs to sort this out. There better be an indictment.

Or, I suspect, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

[kentuck]

63. The question I have...

Was he pulled into the car by the officer? Or did he lunge into the car going after the officer? It's a matter of intent.

[Rex]

64. Wow. It took 2 months for this information to come out?

So what happened to the blown eye socket? Oops, just a small lie. So Wilson shot Brown while he was close to the car and while Brown tried to get away, Wilson shot him in the back. Makes sense and explains why Wilson fled like a criminal.