Surprise: A Majority of Millennials Didn't Go to College—That’s Going to Cost Everybody

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/education/surprise-majority-millennials-didnt-go-college-thats-going-cost-everybody



There’s a lot of hoopla in the media about how Millennials are the best-educated generation in history, blah, blah, blah. But according to a Pew survey, that’s a distortion of reality. In fact, two-thirds of Millennials between ages 25 and 32 don’t have a bachelor's degree. The education gap among this generation is higher than for any other in history in terms of how those with a college degree will fare compared to those without. Reflecting a trend that has been gaining momentum in the rest of America, Millennials are rapidly getting sorted into winners and losers. Most of them are losing. That’s going to cost this generation a lot —and the rest of society, too.

According to Pew, young college graduates are ahead of their less-educated peers on just about every measure of economic well-being and how they are faring in the course of their careers. Their parents and grandparents’ generations did not take as big of a hit by not going to college, but for Millennials, the blow is severe. Without serious intervention, its effects will be permanent.

Young college grads working full-time are earning an eye-popping $17,500 more per year than those with only a high school diploma. To put this in perspective, in 1979 when the first Baby Boomers were the same age that Millennials are today, a high school graduate could earn around three-quarters (77 percent) of what his or her college-educated peer took in. But Millennials with only a high school diploma earn only 62 percent of what the college grads earn.

According to Pew, young people with a college degree also more likely to have full-time jobs, much more likely to have a job of any kind, and more likely to believe that their job will lead to a fulfilling career. But forty-two percent of those with a high school diploma or less see their work as “just a job to get by.” In stark contrast, only 14 percent of college grads have such a negative assessment of their jobs.

[cali]

1. should everyone go to college? I don't know.

and is the only reason to go to college to earn more? and are college grads really so satisfied with their jobs?

[HereSince1628]

13. Based on my experience, the answer to the first question is

Yes, the perception of both parents and prospective students is the primary reason to go to college is to get a 'ticket' that gives access to a life with more money.

Students and parents complain loudly about being forced to spend time and money on general education requirements that enrich life and make a person capable of engaging multiple aspects of life in their communities including the leadership roles traditionally picked up by people with developed interests beyond their employment.

[Iris]

128. excellent points. n/t

[gerogie2]

129. Not everybody is college material.

I tried the college route after I was released from the military and I just couldn't hack it. So I learned a trade instead.

[B Calm]

131. You would be surprised how many truck drivers have college diplomas.

[HereSince1628]

135. Why would you think that surprises me?

[quaker bill]

20. no.

There are a lot of folks with degrees in the environmental sciences waiting tables and selling shoes. There is nothing wrong with waiting tables or selling shoes, but the expense of a 4 year degree is not required to do either.

For some it is luck of the draw, they get lucky enough to be picked out of that 100+ applicants for their first career position and they go on from there with experience. Others never get picked and end up working out of their field pretty much for good.

I was once the guy who did some of the picking. In fact, when I had an entry level position which required no experience, just a relevant degree, I would get 100s of qualified applications every single time. All of them with 4 year degrees and almost none with experience of any sort in the field. I tended to go with folks who had experience with customer service.

[freedom fighter jh]

35. I think the environmental sciences are gonna get a lot better.

Just a hunch, but as environmental problems start to drive society more and more, there will be a need for qualified people to work on them. I think or at least I hope that that will mean jobs for people in the field.

[quaker bill]

112. The point is more general

my experience is specific. The point is that colleges can produce more of everything a college produces than the economy needs. This has been true for quite some time now. The specific major does not matter that much. The fields that have more job openings also produce far more graduates than needed to fill them.

[freedom fighter jh]

132. Wasn't contesting your whole point.

Just responding to one small part of it.

[Cosmocat]

25. NO - and there are a lot of false assumptions to this piece

College has become so expensive that the return on investment has inverted.

NOW, it DOES unlock the big time salaries for the most part. IF you know what you want to do and are going into some kind of STEM field, it is a good investment for example. Some other fields and careers.

But, outside of that it piles up big time debt that you have to be VERY careful to commit to.

As some have noted, a trade, tech or business school is a MUCH better ROI if you don't have a clear path in mind that leads to a good career, or to get the skill set/education to groove into reasonable middle class jobs.

This pieces leaves people wanting to think that not getting a college degree is why people are not getting jobs or good careers.

That is not the case.

If you have more people getting more college degrees, you would have more people with big debt being under employed.

The main problem is that our economy has inverted - there are fewer good paying jobs/careers and a boat load of service and sales jobs that you can't build a viable middle income life with.

Getting college degrees won't magically make more, better paying jobs spawn.

The problem is that the JOBS aren't there ...

[Igel]

48. It's a matter of perspective.

It's where you sit. If you sit in a swamp, all you see is swamp and all the world is a swamp--optimism and such are so 1990s. If you sit on a plane flying over the swamp, you see for 100 miles in all directions and that the swamp is just a few miles square.

Take the tussle over STEM. If you look at STEM graduates, you find a lot of underemployment. But if you disaggregate the data, you find that the underemployment is confined to certain STEM fields. In others there's still a lot of demand. People argue against STEM jobs based on overall data, and that argument usually comes down to, "What's the point? Not worth the effort."

If you look at those in-demand fields, you'll find that in some areas of the country there's still a lot of underemployment. That means that the demand is even higher for those fields in other parts of the country. But still you find arguments that since those subfields have underemployment where a person lives, it's again not worth the effort.

Any conversation that starts with "college grads" with no further breakdown of the data is going to be basically brain-dead. Even if the simple stats show that there's a large differential in salaries, in employment, in all things $, the anecdotes showing this to be far from the complete picture will drown out the big picture for a lot of people. They see only individuals, not generalizations.

Then again, that reduces everything to $ and nothing but $. Because college--education in general--makes for (a) better career options, (b) more stable families, (c) better health, and that all leads to (d) longer life.

People have argued (inadequately) that (b) and (c) are due to $. But if you control for things like geography and income levels, you still find that college leads to more stable families and better health, and that leads to longer lifespans. To a large extent, "money equals health" is post hoc and both are secondary. "Education equals money, education equals health" are really important. Yes, there are cases where if you don't have money your health suffers. That's not the general case, though.

Not everything reduces to and can be expressed in terms of the almighty dollar.

There are still two other issues. A few years ago it was pointed out that most people who went to college really didn't benefit from it in terms of thinking skills. This is true. Good schools--where kids are prepared to think at a college level--do a better job. Lower-tier schools are remediating into their junior years, getting gets to learn basic facts and learn how to learn. However, having the name of a good school on your sheepskin just gets you in the door; after that, for the most part, it's what you learned. Names of lesser-ranked schools don't get you in the door--but the good students that go to lesser-ranked schools often have a good track record in their careers and can use that to get a better job. They're a few years behind their peers from top-ranked schools, and often don't want the stress and humiliation of dropping back a few rungs, even if long-term the outlook is better. The "I need a piece of paper that says 'BA' or 'BS'" is just BS on both counts. The school name on the piece of paper matters; what you learn matters, esp. if you're willing to relocate and adjust your career set-point.

Instead, we again focus on the particular--"Daddy got him his job" or "He's advancing because of the Harvard degree" that only applies in a few cases, because that justifies no effort. It feeds outrage, it feeds cynicism, and that's what many people like.

The other issue is the student debt load. Yeah, a lot of colleges are expensive and you rack up debt. However, colleges are talking to their students differently now. I had the option of taking out a lot of student loans when I was in grad school. I qualified nearly every term for enough to cover nearly all of my tuition/fees and living expenses. I had no savings, nothing worth selling. So I took out loans a couple of years, but never the full amount. I produced a budget, funded it as much as I could with non-loan money, and lived frugally. Friends thought me insane: They took out the full amount. Some went on spring break; others had parties; they frequented Starbucks or had larger apartments. Many had cars. I biked or bussed 3 miles each way; I paid $400 in West Los Angeles for my apt. They had cars, lived 2 blocks from school, and paid $1200 for their apts. Their budgets weren't frugal, and they were living on borrowed money. I had $13k debt when I left school, mostly because my first year I was an out-of-state student and paid for it; most of them were in-state students and still had $13k debt or more after just their first year just because of rent and car costs.

In other words, when you look at the student debt load, not all debt is created equal. Tuition increases account for a lot of it. On the other hand, you see how colleges are adding luxuries--steak night, wellness centers, etc.--and you know that's to attract students to live on campus more. Lifestyle's been adding a lot to student debt as well.

I heard seniors last year talking about how much they were offered in loans. Of course every one assumed it was free money and they looked at me like I was stupid when I said, "Figure out what you need and only borrow that much. Save what you can and borrow less the next year." Typical response, "I need to go out with friends and I need my car." Many of them are likely to drop out, have $40k in debt when they drop out in two years, and say how useless the entire game is. In saying this they make a big impression on their siblings and relatives. All they're doing is saying, "I failed, and it's not because of me but because the entire system is rotten." It saves face for them but hurts their relatives in the long run. In the end, it justifies no effort, feeds outrage and cynicism, and makes us all short-term satisfied but long-term poor.

(There's still more labor than the economy needs. If and until we get to where there's greater employment, minimally educated people, high school grads and drop-outs, will see their wages flat. But if we get to decent employment numbers, the way to get those drop-outs' and only-high-school grads' pay to increase is to make sure there aren't that many of them. Limited supply --> greater changes of increased demand.)

[Populist_Prole]

81. I agree with you. This piece irked me

Primarily for the fact it played to, or sought to give credence to the trite meme the corporatists always say to the proles: As in, we're not smart enough to compete for the good paying jobs of the future blah blah blah. Then they proceed to bankrupt people by stinging them along and having them chase some elusive goal via an expensive degree.

Related to the above, that "good jobs" that were once the economic driver for a once thriving working class have been lost due to a deliberate decision by the PTB to engage in rent-seeking or labor arbitrage. It's natural for the pseudo-enlightened to reflexively look elsewhere for economic viability by seeking out those fields in jobs not yet so affected by ( deliberate ) de-industrialization while at the same time appealing to some noble goal of being smarter/higher-tech. Of course this just raises the bar and lets the plutocrats off the hook for gutting a once healthy job sector.

As you've more or less pointed out, increasing the supply of higher educated employees does just that: It doesn't create it's own demand.

The last thing that stuck in my craw is, as others have also pointed out, the "all or nothing" false dilemma....as if there were absolutely no alternatives between a 4 ( or more ) year degree and just a high school education.

I expected better from Alternet. This just feeds the plutocrat's narrative.

[joshcryer]

26. No, formal, institutionalized, eduction will die.

And not soon enough.

[davidpdx]

118. I have to disagree with you there Josh

I think it will (and is) going to mutate and change. Distance education is becoming more common and there are still a infinite number of possibilities in terms of what could be done with it. It is going to become competitive in terms of price and the types of degrees offered. Actual brick and mortar schools will become less common eventually, but they still may be used in conjunction with online education.

[rock]

37. No

Should everyone get a PhD? No. Should everyone get a masters? No. Should everyone go to college? No. Should everyone graduate from high school? Yes (mostly). That's a fairly accessible standard to produce an educated population. Not everyone is suited to higher learning.

[vlyons]

39. absolutely 100% yes

A college degree, even a 2-yr associates degree from a community college shows that a person can focus and learn. It also broadens the mind and humanizes one. Education is the very best investment there is.

[Adrahil]

90. Gonna disagree.

While I do think everyone needs post-high school training of some sort, not everyone needs an actual college degree. A college degree represents more than simply job training, in my view.

[grahamhgreen]

44. How can it hurt?

[Maedhros]

154. It can hurt by saddling young, unemployed graduates with immense debt.

Yes - we should send more people to university, but we need to first deal with runaway tuition and subsidize education costs. End the "private partnership" of corporations with universities that allows corporate America to determine what disciplines get funded and which ones get cut. Proper public funding is necessary.

[TimeToGo]

63. Not exactly new

People assume most people go to college -- But I think it's something like only 25% of Americans have graduated from college.

[Sunlei]

69. yes, everyone should have some college level classes & move toward a basic degree.

Even one (credit)class a semester at their local community college helps people grow.

[aikoaiko]

70. Almost everyone if I redefine college as post-secondary education

Which includes technical college with certificates in trades or 2 year diplomas/degrees with liberal education goals as well as workforce development.

[Gormy Cuss]

84. The stark result is that on average those who do not earn EVEN LESS now than when you left college.

There just aren't as many "good" jobs for those without a BA these. Part of that can be explained by the fall in union membership but I suspect that a lot of it has to do with the change in the job mix in our workforce. We don't make things, we import them and manufacturing jobs, particularly in union shops, were the key to middle class lifestyles. Another factor IMHO is the inflation of job qualifications. Far too many entry-level positions specific college degrees these days.

The increased lifetime earning potential is a benefit of college, not the reason to attend.

[dionysus]

94. certainly it's not right for everyone, but in the tech fields that piece of paper is near essential.

[marshall]

102. Money should not be the measure of happiness

but unfortunately in the US it is.

[Throd]

111. Money buys security, which makes it easier to pursue happiness.

Stressing out about choosing to pay the power bill or the water bill makes serenity a little more distant.

Then again, a lot of rich people manage to find misery quite easily.

[AZ Progressive]

126. Money buys happiness up till $75,000 / yr

A study showed that past that amount, money really didn't buy happiness. The more you own, the more you have to worry about protecting your things, maintaining them, etc... You tend to draw predators as well, people who seek to take your money away. The higher your lifestyle, the more expensive your life is.

American society is structured that money buys well being.

[hfojvt]

105. I do what I can to help

Was class valedictorian, have two college degrees (BA and MA) and work, once again, as a part-time janitor.

My own experience is that college degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on. YMMV (and apparently statistically it does. Heck, even I could, in theory, have kept my good job with the military industrial complex.)

The whole article seems faulty. First, it says millenials are not GOing to college and then it cites statistics of those who have graduated. And it provides no baseline. 2/3 of millenials did not graduate from college, well how does that percentage compare with earlier generations?

[davidpdx]

114. No, but college should not automatically be dismissed as an option

I think it takes careful consideration of the options available. I applied to a electrical journeyman program at the same time I was applying for college. I would have seriously considered that as an option if it has been available (I had some previous training in the field and found it interesting). The point is, I did look at alternatives.

Also college is not for everyone and some maybe better off waiting well into their 20's to go. I didn't go until I was almost 22. There is something to be said for working a few years and trying to build up some money to help with expenses. I totally support ideas like that.

I see a lot of people on DU (I'm not talking about the OP) dismiss college as basically useless. It irks me how anti-education DU has become. Some are beginning to sound like Republicans.

[cali]

136. I agree that it shouldn't automatically be dismissed as an option

I don't think college is basically useless, but I do think there are other options- and there should be more of them.

[KurtNYC]

141. everyone should have the opportunity for post HS education that fits them

There are plenty of good jobs that don't involve college: contractor, electrician, auto mechanic, cell phone tech, massage therapist, executive chef, etc. Can't outsource most of those but we push 'one-size-fits-all' college education as the cure all for everything right to the debt-ridden end.

[Major Hogwash]

143. Yes, no, yes.

Any more questions?

I went to college right out of high school and then dropped out because it was so fucking boring that I thought I was going to die!!
But, I went back, and kept plugging along, taking a few classes here and a few classes there, knowing that a higher education is one of the things that leads to success.

A degree doesn't always translate into earning more money.
That's not what an education was designed for, to begin with.

On top of that, it has been my experience that college graduates are more content in life, no matter how much money they were earning at the time.

Getting an education is a lifetime process . . . learning never ends!

Some people learn the hard way, on their own.

My dad told me when I was a kid that fools make the same mistakes, over and over again.
Then he said that smart people learn from their mistakes.
Then he added, wise people learn from the mistakes of others.

Vote for Democrats to increase education in America!
It's a win, win, win, all the way around.

Now, pardon me while I climb down from my high chair.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. I have college, my husband doesn't.

For the most part he has made more money than me since he went into the civilian workforce. On the occasions I have made more money it has been temporary and short-lived and only tangentially related to my education. I seriously doubt another 2 years of debt would have improved much.

[Adrahil]

91. Well, the statistics don't agree with you.

On average, a college graduate is going to do better than a non-graduate over their life time. That won't apply to every case, of course, but the stats are there.

And choice of degree, quality of the school, and the quality of the student matter too. I'll take a sharp non-degree person over a barely-passed degree holder any day.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

98. If life was all about statistics we'd all be stock brokers.

I did well in college but as soon as I stepped into the job market I realized I had made a poor choice. I accept full responsibility for my choices but the incentive to continue assuming debt had pretty much evaporated.

I was hired by my boss as an administrative assistant. I survived the Great Recession by being organized and diligent. In time he had me working as an assistant Project Manager. That's where I gained my best job skills.

Lover Boy, on the other hand, works a grueling outdoors job, year round, regardless of weather. He's in a supervisory position but they work like animals. Hence the better pay.

[Adrahil]

100. Individual experiences vary, of course....

But at least by my own personal survey, my friends and family that got a degree are doing much, MUCH better than those who did not.

Why do you think you made a poor choice? Bad major? Just not for you?

I will say it does NOT surprise me that you rose in the ranks, as it were. A woman where I work did the same thing. Dropped out of college, but was sharp as a knife. She worked as a receptionist for 2 years, but was clearly capable of more. She now works in our operations department.

[davidpdx]

119. That's funny how you call Mr. Nuclear Unicorn Lover Boy

The type of job he has takes a specific kind of person (someone who is outdoorsy). I honestly couldn't do that kind of work.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

124. "That's funny how you call Mr. Nuclear Unicorn Lover Boy"

While we were engaged I told him that even though we were about to be married he would always be my lover boy.

[loudsue]

3. The crime is that college has become all about money. It leaves out the quality of "being educated"

enough to vote and make decisions in a democracy.

College should be paid for....all of a child's education should be paid for by the country they grow up in. If the 1% HAS TO HAVE something over everyone else, then there can be private colleges that they can support. But the 1% damned sure should be ready to support the education of the country that allowed them the opportunity to become the 1%.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

83. +1

[minivan2]

104. +1,000,000

As a college student I thank you for my current frustrations. If you want look up a good documentary called the College Conspiracy. It shows how negative high tuition is on the economy and what it's doing to the 1% and the middle class. It's on Youtube.

[loudsue]

110. Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.

Good luck with school!

[rogerashton]

4. There are some darn good trade schools.

(OK, my Dad taught in one of them for a while.) College is not for everybody, but a good trade school diploma can pay well and get the young person into a career with a long-term future. It is sometimes said that young people won't go to trade school because -- well, they are working class, or something like that. But I think if the media and political establishment gave the good trade schools their props, we would see more enrollment and more employment in some fields where labor actually is scarce.

[secondwind]

6. Agree with you 100%... I also think that many young lives are being spent in jail for crimes

that are not very serious, and the $$ spent to keep these young men behind bars could be used to train them to be mechanics, electricians, plumbers, whatever, and perhaps they would not end up in jail 2-3 times

[newfie11]

8. Very true

In my area plumbers are hard to find. I tried to talk my son and grandsons into it but their not interested.
My dad was a union electrician.

[7962]

24. And you cant outsource plumber, electrician, AC repair, mechanic, machinist, etc.

And ALL of those jobs pay very well.

[rogerashton]

54. Good point! nt

[Brigid]

77. And I'll bet your dad did just fine.

About five years ago, I had a new A.C. installed; the old one gave out. The HVAC said the company were very busy. I'll bet he and his colleagues were some of the few who were working steadily in that crappy little town where I was living at the time.

[newfie11]

106. He did but he worked where the union sent him

We moved about every three months or so. This was in the 50 & early 60s. I loved it! We pulled our own house trailor.
I've been to/through every state in the union by car/pickup (except Alaska/Hawaii). He wired lots of missile silos out here in the west.
Not sure how or if electricians are traveling like that now.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. Trade school would be an excellent decision for a lot of young people.

Not only would they gain a marketable skill, these are jobs that can't be outsourced, for the most part. Your clogged drain, auto repairs and many other service oriented careers can't be sent overseas.

[redruddyred]

19. at my HS, they didn't teach us the first thing about this sort of work.

only reading, 'riting, and 'rithmatic.

and kids are mocked for calling HS a waste of time.

[redruddyred]

17. there are employment fields where labor is scarce?

that's a new one. from what I've heard, even the engineers are having a hard time finding work.

as one of the smart kids, I thought technical school was probably not for me, and I was right. still, when accessibility of higher education has more to do with how much you can pay (or how much free time you have) rather than with how qualified you are, you gotta take what you can get.

[7962]

29. I saw a CEO on CNBC awhile back lamenting how he needed technical workers

He said he needed people who could work with their hands, not someone with a degree.
Here's an article with more on it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/us-manufacturers-skilled-workers-job-openings_n_1007902.html

[Adrahil]

92. Unions used to provide apprenticeships and technical training....

and these CEOs have helped destroy them. Now they want someone else to train their workers. How cute.

If CEOs need technically trained people, why not set up apprenticeships themselves?

[Go Vols]

140. Some Unions still do

My 25 yr old kid did his Ironworker apprenticeship and is now a journeyman on track to make over 100k this year.

http://www.ironworkers.org/jobline

[Igel]

52. Yes.

There's no such thing as "the engineers." There's mech eng, chem eng, petroleum eng, civil eng, EE, and a variety of other kinds of engineering. You don't want a chem engineer to design a fitting that'll have to handle 20 kPa/cm^2, you don't want your computer engineer to build a road. Computer engineers and EEs have a hard time these days--more in some geographic areas than others.

I know people working for companies that are struggling to fill mech eng and petroleum engineering positions. But if you're an unemployed petroleum engineer in southern Delaware, you're probably not going to find a job.

But skilled tradesmen are in demand in most places. And the pay isn't bad, even if the work conditions are a bit crappy at times. (Seriously: Who wants to work on an AC unit in my attic when it's 98 degrees outside and the sun's shining full on the roof? Nobody, and to get somebody to do this I pay.)

[seabeckind]

64. I think it's wrong to consider engineering as a single discipline

Tho the title lumps them together, the actual mindset of different engineering disciplines can be separated into two broad definitions:

what is and what can be.

Within the what is there are some who do design but many, many more who do implementation. In the computer engineering field the ratio is reversed.

[U4ikLefty]

86. I thought engineers drove the choo-choo trains.

j/k...I'm a CE and get that one all the time.

[redruddyred]

145. the physical aspect always put me off those jobs.

not because I think it's beneath me, but because I'm not very strong.

but I've since reconsidered; I don't think the people I've interviewed have ever bussed tables, for instance.

[Igel]

51. Yup.

The greatest shortfall has been those with 2-year degrees, which includes those with all kinds of nifty certifications.

You don't need a 4-year degree to plumb, to wire a house, to do all kinds of things. And a 4-year degree in US history won't much help you with those, anyway.

High schools used to teach a lot of this kind of thing. Some still do.

But the big push in the last 20 years has been "college ready" and asking how many of your school's kids go to a 4-year college. Many principals and district superintendents, many education teachers and trainers, view high school not as a chance to educate kids but a way of reducing social inequality and closing the "achievement gap." They want to be social engineers and not educators, and see things in terms of numbers on a page or in terms of $.

Note that the problem here is that many tech schools are for-profit. And many people view private schools as inherently evil. So the kid that was killed in Ferguson wasn't going to "college"--he was going to go to a for-profit trade-school that decided to have the word "college" in its name. A lot of people drop out of those. Some drop out before they finish their program because they can't cut it; some because they learned what they wanted and didn't need the rest of the coursework; some because they moved; some because they found they didn't have the time. They cost more--they're not subsidized by taxpayers, plus have to turn a profit--but their ills are those shared by a lot of community colleges that serve the same demographics. So we hear the numbers, but they're restricted to just for-profit schools (because some community colleges are as bad or worse than the worst for-profit tech/trade schools).

[rogerashton]

85. For-profit vs private

For-profit higher educational institutions are mostly scams to milk government subsidies. I want to be careful here -- there were once some respectable for-profit secretarial schools (I actually attended one briefly, about 1959) and perhaps there are still some. I don't know.

There are a few nonprofit private trade schools. Well, I know of one: The Williamson Free School of Mechanical Trades , a neighbor of mine and a model of excellence. So we should distinguish private from for-profit.

The school my dad taught in was a public -- a Parish (county in Louisiana) school, and not a "community college" -- no associate's degrees, no transferable credits. I think it has since been absorbed in a state system, along with community colleges, but -- so far as I can tell -- still focused trade training. However, it does seem that many public community colleges have shifted to preparing students to transfer to college, and while that can be a good path for some people, it shouldn't be confused with a trade school.

[Brigid]

79. I know.

I go to one that started out as strictly a trade school, and it is quite successful and well regarded. Today they have many offerings in the health fields, such as nursing, medical assisting, and respiratory therapy. Computer and drafting classes are popular. I'm taking paralegal courses myself. But HVAC, electrical, and the like are still very much alive. This school also helps local employers with specific training needs; I believe they do a lot of that. I do notice, though, a lot of info about transferring to four-year colleges, and lots of recruiters for four-year colleges on campus. I hope they are not trying to talk students into something that just isn't right for them.

[davidpdx]

120. I agree on the trade schools

I tried to get an apprenticeship to be an electrician through the union when I was younger at the same time I applied to college. I would have considered it had I scored higher on the exam. They are very very competitive. Fortunately for me I had college as an option (I had already been accepted).

[rogerashton]

134. apprenticeships can be great -- but

they often seem to be limited in order to keep qualified labor scarce, and wages up. Well, the same principle applies to engineering programs in colleges and to medical schools.

[redruddyred]

148. I always felt that that was somewhat excessive.

people do poorly in school for reasons other than aptitude.

[liberal_at_heart]

127. it depends heavily on the trade school. Community colleges are good places to learn a trade.

For profit trade schools, not so much. I took veterinary assistant classes. As soon as I got into my internship I realized they had not prepared me well enough and I never finished, not to mention I am still in debt while the school I was in made a pretty penny of me.

[rogerashton]

133. "assistant" programs are pretty dodgy, I understand.

My wife taught in a community college physician's assistant program way back -- as a part-time, exploited adjunct. Most of her students were older than she. But with no recognized certification program, a "certificate" is often pretty worthless.

[newfie11]

5. As a baby boomer in California THEN my college was free

I could never have afforded college. These poor kids now are gratuating owing more than the cost of a house.

America is failing it's people. our jobs/factories are offshored.

Try paying off a college loan on minimum wage. Students coming out of college may not find work depending on their field and end up working at low wages.

Bring back free colleges like California had and Germany is doing.

Stop allowing offshoring for businesses.

[secondwind]

7. Germany has both free university and apprenticeships for those who are not interested in college. I

would love to see both of these programs in this country...

[newfie11]

11. +infinity^^^^^^^^^^^^^nt

[rogerashton]

12. Indeed! and

For those who do attend college, more "coop" programs like that of my employer, Drexel University in Philly, would help, too. "Coop" means paid employment for six to eighteen months alternating with the academics. More than just an internship. I believe Joe Biden has made that point.

[Igel]

55. Had a friend who did that at Drexel.

He did well. It got him through college when his family said "no"--and once it saw the error of its ways, was hit by personal disaster and couldn't help. He helped design the servo systems that made the first military UAVs useful. He often returned to school with greater motivation, with a set of skills he wanted to improve, and with an awareness of what he'd actually need to know. School's first goal may be to teach you content, but its real benefit is in teaching you to learn and to think. He "got it" early on.

However, that kind of program can mess up a college's numbers and make for a lot of scheduling headaches. They're better for engineering and business than for a lot of other jobs. And when the economy takes a dive, those paid internships are either cut or resented. It's also easy to make them into do-nothing kinds of programs--yeah, you're getting paid, but you're not doing anything that advances your learning, and that's the goal of those programs. Again, people just focus on $, which is apparently what they really care about.

[rogerashton]

68. Thanks for the success story.

No system is perfect. Coop is costly. Worth the cost, though. My friends in the humanities say that, despite the difficulties, it is even more important for their students than for eng. and bus.

[dionysus]

96. i chose the college i did because of their co-op program; 5 - 7 quarters of coop required depending

on the major.

[Brigid]

74. I remember when . . .

Germany was sneered at for what was called "tracking." But guess what -- they were right.

[rogerashton]

9. Me too.

Louisiana State, 1960-64. I tell people that Huey Long sent me to college. Huey made LSU free -- for a while.

[JimDandy]

32. Was it free for Black Americans, too?

Wikipedia notes that the Federal courts had to intervene in 1964 to force the university to fully integrate. Was tuition free only until 1964?

[rogerashton]

60. Fair question. No.

Both LSU and my previous schools were segregated in the 1950's and early 1960's. When LSU was "desegregated" in 1964, the 16 or so black men were limited to one wing of one dorm and shared out equally between air force and army ROTC. And the swimming pool was closed, on the excuse that it had been damaged by the earthquake in Alaska! Of course, nobody believed that.

But -- for what it is worth -- I'm pretty sure the segregated black-only schools (Grambling and Southern) were also tuition-free. As also the white normal schools were. Not equal, but free.

To address the question you seem to raise: no, the tuition remained free for a few years as more real desegregation took place. I don't think that there is a direct connection between desegregation and the privatization of public higher education. Perhaps some poor white folks, against their interests, failed to support free public education because it was desegregated. But I think the main reason for the privatization of public higher education is the increasingly unrestrained greed of the billionaire class.

[JimDandy]

72. Good info. I agree about the pervasive greed altering our

public higher ed system.

[redruddyred]

10. try paying cost of living on minimum wage.

I can get financial aid to cover my tuition, but everyone seems to forget that I have to eat, too.

there's a reason kids aren't graduating, and it's because... they're working. a lot. too much.

affordable tuition is only part of the puzzle.

[pnwmom]

14. This article compares "only a high school degree" to four year degrees without discussing

two year degrees. This is an important omission because many two year degrees can lead to good jobs -- often more well-paying than from a liberal arts major.

[Arkansas Granny]

22. Yes. After my divorce, I had 4 kids to support and no skills.

I went to school at night to get a two year degree which was directly responsible for every job I've held since the late 70's.

[mountain grammy]

53. Education works!

[davidpdx]

122. My mom did the same, got a AA in Business

Except she had just my brother and I. She eventually went to work for a hospital and has worked there for almost 25 years. The hospital she originally worked for merged with the other hospital in town, which merged with the one in the larger town nearby and is now one of the major hospital network in the area.

Funny enough she was one of the people who interested me in business as I hung around her office a lot as a kid (the other was a high school teacher who put up with my antics in the classroom). My BA was originally going to be a business minor and speech communication major and I flipped the two. I'm not working on a DBA (doctorate in International Business Administration).

[llmart]

15. If some of the Millenials are smart.....

they'll learn a trade that all of us aging Baby Boomers will look to because we can no longer do the work ourselves.

I am an aging Boomer and live in a community of aging Boomers, and what I see are people who are retired or newly single (many of them women like myself) who will pay to have things fixed on their homes because they are no longer physically able to do this work themselves. As our generation ages even more, they'll need these services more. Many of us in my community talk about how it's difficult to find good electricians/handymen/plumbers, etc. and when we do find one, we're sharing their name with our neighbors and those people have more work then they can shake a stick at!

[redruddyred]

23. that kind of advice seems very gender-specific.

I can't quite imagine myself dragging cables about. but good for the fellas who can.

[llmart]

38. Really?

Are you suggesting women can't be electricians/plumbers or any other of the trades?

I'm a 65-year old woman and I've installed all of my own light fixtures, clean my own gutters, waterproofed my basement walls, etc. etc. Today I'll be taking down and planing two interior doors. My point was, I am getting to the point where I no longer want to do these things myself or can see that as the years go on I'll no longer be able to do these things myself and I'll need younger people, be they male or female, to do them for me.

[redruddyred]

147. no, I am a woman.

I just don't think I'd be any good at the trades.

maybe this is the patriarchy lying to me again; who knows.

[llmart]

149. That may be true....

for you, but it doesn't mean that other women can't be good at the trades. I know plenty of men who don't know a Phillips screwdriver from a wrench.

I have a cousin whose grown, 29-year old daughter is a firefighter who fights fires in the California forests. I used to have a neighbor woman who built her own deck from scratch. A woman I worked with loved tools more than she did kitchen gadgets.

[redruddyred]

150. that's nice to hear.

where I am, we only ever see men doing the construction crews. I know I do not personally have the physical endurance to do it. but certainly some women do.

still, you never see them, and I wonder why.

I often ask electricians if their work is strenuous, and they always say yes, but I wonder how true this is in comparison to some of the restaurant jobs I've held. construction workers especially seem as if they spend most of the time talking.

[Codeine]

67. The main plumber my company uses

is female. She seems to have no particular difficulty at her job. I think it's a bit silly to assume women can't bust a little ass and get shit done.

[JustAnotherGen]

130. My husband's

"Fair Haired Girl" is a now 24 year old woman who grew up in Camden NJ who has no fear of fire or hanging from ceilings with a tremendous aptitude for artistic design. She thought she would be a nail technician until he came into her school to talk about his line of business - trying to encourage kids to pursue a skilled crafts trade. Women can weld and restore and design and bring 400 and five hundred year old iron back to life . . . They just need an Italian male immigrant to tell them they can. She's making what I made in 2006 (when I moved to NJ to work for a telecom) with 12 years experience and two BA's.

Yes. She. Can.

[redruddyred]

146. yeah, there seems to be a distinct lack of encouragement.

I've quit discussing my career goals with my family altogether, because everytime I come up with something practical which I'd also be good at, they suggest something more gender-appropriate. I was thinking about it this morning, and it occurred to me that I wouldn't have the first clue how to break into one of these businesses. in fact, I'm pretty sure that the only reason that I have the job I have now is because the entire organization is run by other women. I've walked into places where it's all dudes, and I never get a call back.

for the record, I'd make a shitty teacher.

[Arkansas Granny]

27. Exactly. I work for a general contractor and we do a lot

of handyman jobs for people who can't, or don't know how, to do these jobs themselves. Many of our calls are due to recommendations from our customers. Word of mouth is the best advertising.

[hobbit709]

18. My wife always said "I know enough doctors and lawyers, what I need is a good mechanic"

[oberliner]

21. College is a scam

Probably a good number of Millennials and/or their parents have figured this out.

[joshcryer]

28. They did the math.

Which is why it's all the more important to have comprehensive student loan reform.

It doesn't help that we've exported almost all of our manufacturing so the only jobs are service industry.

People realize you don't need a college degree to flip burgers, and IT jobs don't care about qualifications, it's all about the entry interview.

[treestar]

30. But then they don't have the huge crippling debt

So maybe that should be considered in looking at the financial picture.

College grads are having a hard time finding jobs. A lot of those jobs can be outsourced, where blue collar jobs cannot.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. Once again we see where something that is a need is considered to be for SALE....

College should be FREE.

Berkley used to be free.

Still, there is an argument to be made that you shouldn't NEED a college degree to make a living wage. The whole, "If minimum wage kept pace with inflation" observation. I always use as an example the typical factory worker in the 70s who could afford to buy a house, have a stay at home wife, a couple of kids in college, new car every few years (To replace the ones that rusted out from the salt they dump on the roads) and even a boat to go waterskiing on the weekends. Also a vacation where they would pack up the car and head for Disneyland for their two to three week vacation. All that with a HS Diploma and a Union that didn't sell them out.

[Igel]

61. You don't need a college degree to make a living wage.

You usually need one to be in the top 50% of income earners, but "living wage" extends below that median.

What you do need is some sort of education. Graduate from high school with just a typical high school degree and you're flipping burgers, cashiering, or washing cars.

There are lots of vocational career paths that require training. Whenever I head east to a shopping area near where I live I see signs advertising for machinists. Every year some companies in the area have "career fairs" for machinists and other skilled metal workers. That HS degree won't cut it. Heck, my 4-year degree won't cut it.

And, no, the local community college focuses on nursing, accountants, teaching electricians and plumbers to pass certification tests, that sort of thing. Or offering remedial high school courses for those who screwed up high school, then first-year (maybe 2nd-year) college courses for those who want to transfer. Nothing hands on outside of chem or biology lab. They don't train machinists. They don't train plumbers.

For that the local options are mostly for-profit vo-tech schools.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

125. That's why being an apprentice in a Union was the way to go....

Who gives a santorum if you could quote from Wordsworth some crap about being lonely as a cloud if you could run a metal lathe.

[RedCappedBandit]

33. Most people don't have a degree, but that doesn't mean

educational attainment hasn't increased over time. It has.

The rest of the article does highlight important facts.

[edhopper]

34. Because TPTB

want a return to the 19th Century where only the elite go to college and everyone else is a low paid worker.

[jen63]

41. It seems we've obviously

bought into the message, if these responses are any indication. A better educated populous is more liberal, that's what they don't want and we are buying it.

[edhopper]

42. Amazing how many vote

for people who say, "We want you to be poorer and have less."

Look at how many support politicians who want to do away with the minimum wage.

[jen63]

45. I get so discouraged.

It was not a question whether my brother and me were going to college. It was assumed. I made it the same for my son. I don't care what any one else says. I know the competition is stiff. His graduating class was 16% Valedictorian and he was one. (great public system) His first year he ended up with 5200. in loans. I told him if he could graduate for the price of a brand new car, he's be okay. That was for an excellent state school.

He decided to reapply to the Naval Academy and ended up with an appointment the second time. He was lucky; he's now getting an MIT grade education without the financial cost, but could come home in a body bag, so there's that.....

[edhopper]

47. My take

why is education so expensive?
Because the Reagan/GOP have been so successful at reducing taxes on the wealthy and using what money there is on the Military, that there isn't the revenue any more for things like higher education. So the burden falls on the the backs of the students.

[jen63]

49. Yep,

we are then conveniently given the message by the media that we no longer need college. Pretty convenient, eh? That messaging didn't seem to start until attention started being called to the obscene student debt that we are under. What better way to keep everyone out of college than to tie it all to the pocketbook? Less citizens educated, less liberalism. The cycle is complete.

[edhopper]

50. Yes

the fault isn't the obscene Student Loan machine. It's that college should be reserved for the special people.

[jen63]

57. You've got it!

[tabbycat31]

95. One factor you are overlook

Which is why so few politicians do something about student loans or college costs--- look at who votes. Students don't typically vote in large numbers (as seniors do) and are easy to overlook.

If senior citizens were being ripped off the way students are, there would be outrage in Congress.

[edhopper]

97. That's another reason things don't change

Not why higher education got so expensive in one generation.

[tabbycat31]

103. It got so expensive for a few reasons

1) (public schools only) States are balancing their budgets on the backs of students. The state subsidies on higher education (at state schools) are lower (percentage) than they were in the past.

2) It is taking people longer to graduate (myself included). When I was graduating, I needed 3 specific courses to graduate. With my luck, they all met at the same time (and that was the only session offered) so I had to extend my time there by default. I'm quite positive I'm not the only person this has happened to. I was a commuter and didn't have to pay room and board, but one extra semester can add up.

2) Multiple administrative positions at the top and the high salaries that go along with it. (This could be said across many industries). I can tell you that the staff making the $$ are not the ones teaching the class (with tenured faculty being replaced by adjuncts).

3) Colleges trying to attract students by offering resort like dorms and amenities. They're trying to attract the rich students with swimming pools in the dorms, fancy gyms, etc. Are these good? Yes, but the cost of these amenities should be paid for by those who use them, not everyone. Charge a membership fee for the gym, pool, tanning booth, etc.

[edhopper]

137. Exactly

number 1). Lower revenue from the wealthy and corporations, less money for education.

[PDJane]

36. In Canada, there are Community Colleges.

They teach, for the most part, trades. Dental technician, tool and die maker, climate control, blah, blah, blah. It's considered, in Canada, a 'separate educational stream.' At a meeting about allowing the community college credits to be used for University, I was informed that, "The community college system was an alternative post-secondary education for the children of the working class." (emphasis mine.) It outraged me then, and it leaves me outraged now!

At a time when we are going to be fighting climate crises and the need for alternative energy. when we need to figure out how to clean the plastic out of oceans, find bio-degradable replacements for plastic, and so on, we need those graduates. We need education. We will have more challenges than we have ways to fix them. Religion and oligarchy isn't the answer. Science is one of those answers, and so is an adherence to international law and civil rights.

States that look after their people and the environment will survive reasonably well. Those that don't, won't.

It is time to start educating people, time to relegate religion to the private sphere, time to get our act together, because otherwise we may well run out of time.

[randome]

40. The Information Age does not value degrees as much as in previous decades.

Granted, a college education should do more than provide future income but it's a different world out there today.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[TBF]

43. We are watching the decline of an empire. nt

[NightWatcher]

46. They skipped the costs of college and went straight to the service sector jobs

that they would've ended up in after they racked up debt anyway.

The Gen X'ers are just now getting into the good jobs, having accrued debt and doing some time in the service sector. Now it's the Millenials' turn and some have decided to skip the crippling college debt.

[seabeckind]

56. The title of the article says one thing...the content another

The content implies that the only, or at least the foremost, value for education is in monetary return for the individual. That the value to society is unimportant.

The title implies that it will "cost everybody".

That's a contradiction.

I believe it is a result of the MBA thinking that came into such a driving force in the reagan era. Prior to that we, as a society either directly or thru our emphasis in business, invested in the individual, casting a seed as far and wide as possible in the hope that it will grow and help feed all of us.

Then the educational system became a cash cow with its primary goal return to investors (the Doonesbury today was good http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025686465). The cost to our "industry" was shifted to the individual as much as possible, even to the point where we have some municipalities going into a partnership with industry to train their workers. The effect was to make the taxpayers support even more of their business model.

Innovation and progress comes from a very broad education with depth into areas that the individual naturally feels appropriate. Not a mold determined by return on investment.

[kiva]

58. These figure are skewed by the age of millennials.

Several studies have pointed out that the majority of college students - if you go outside of universities - are non-traditional students. I was in my 30s when I got my degree and many people I know were older students; a substantial number of my students are in their late-20s or older...and that's the trend: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/07/06/number-of-the-week-non-traditional-students-are-majority-on-college-campuses/

Adding: I don't mean the wage number are skewed - unfortunately they are very real; I mean that the percent of millennials with degrees compared to other older generations will probably change.

[DallasNE]

59. A Predictable Consequence Of Tax Law That Favors The 1%

Still another legacy of George W. Bush that this country still has to deal with. And from looking at current polling America is not yet ready to take on that challenge. With Citizens United stacked on top of that the chances of this problem getting addressed any time soon is remote. The next place where this will boil over is with the social safety net as America will again make the wrong choice because Citizens United assures that they will be forever bombarded with false information. Indeed, the Fed Chair put out a strong warning against the 100 year high in the wealth gap in America. Thanks George W. Bush. Name one thing you didn't screw up.

[seabeckind]

66. Not just the tax law

the whole mindset of the country is defined by the 1%. That the only value of anything is the return on investment.

The 1% doesn't innovate. They don't progress. They make much more in the status quo than investing in undefined returns.

Hence all the propaganda against new technologies...and no, the new iPad is NOT a new technology (ref sustaining innovation), against alternative energy, alternative transportation, disease cure (as opposed to treatment), against effective education reforms (charter schools are not reform), etc.

If the 1% makes more in not providing a service....

[Neoma]

62. I started college at age 24 due to health reasons.

The broke folks are probably going to college at later times because they have to save up money to even go.

[woo me with science]

65. What good is a new, Orwellian society

without proles?

[shanti]

71. A service oriented society

We were warned that the US would turn that way years ago, and now we are seeing it. My third son, 32, so considered a Millenial, just completed his AA with a certificate in culinary arts. It's not what he really wants to do, but it will pay the bills until he can complete his BA in Business. For now, he works in the kitchen of a high end retirement home as a chef. He told me that almost everyone in management is under 40, and promotions move quickly. But most positions don't require a degree.

The smart people have realized that taking care of the huge number of Boomers is going to be a primary job for many in the coming years, and jumped on the boat early.

[mb999]

75. sounds like a "developing country" economy

[BlindTiresias]

99. Sounds like a shaky foundation for an economy

[mb999]

73. College is unaffordable

Unless you want to rack up mountains of debt. Where are the "good jobs" to get to pay it back? Offshore or they have been reduced to temporary low paying crap.

[shenmue]

76. If some folks don't want to go to college, that's their beeswax

But if they do, then if they are willing to try hard and get the grades, there should be a way to open college to them.

[azmom]

78. Our kids are

Not being taught critical thinking skills in High School. It is not until they get to college that they are presented with this skill. It's because of this reason that I counsel all young kids to get some type of higher education.

[GummyBearz]

80. This is dumb

When I finished college only 25% of the population had a college degree... so millennials do seem to be higher educated with 33% of them having a college degree.

btw college isn't for everybody, and now that it puts you in debt for decades I highly suggest avoiding college for any major other than a STEM type that will lead to a well paying job immediately.

[jwirr]

82. It will hurt all of us but I did not go to college until I was 25 and today there are a lot of adult

students in colleges. So I am not giving up hope.

I also understand why they are not going. To begin with it is the cost. And then with the world changing: what are they going to go for? Career decisions are much harder today than when we could just decide what we wanted to be and go for it.

[U4ikLefty]

87. I didn't drop back in to college until I was 37, got my degree at 40

I would've dropped in sooner but it was the cost of living & going to school that was prohibitive.

The good thing about going back as an older student is that I appreciated being back in college. I smelled the roses & enjoyed my time there. One of the best decisions of my life to go back.

[jwirr]

89. I also think there is something to say about going back as an adult. I loved it. I was a single mom

with two children living with me. I actually think it was the best time of my life.

[U4ikLefty]

101. I agree, the best time of my adult life.

I stop by the campus a couple of times per year (I belong to the credit union). I still get good feelings walking around and seeing all the activity...so cool, I really miss those times.

[Arugula Latte]

88. Well, gee, maybe if this backwards country funded education instead of

allowing $20,000- to $70,000-a-year universities that might change.

Instead, we have to subsidize Halliburton and Exxon executives.

[dionysus]

93. sadly, a large chunk of that extra income goes to interest on student loans.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

107. I don't know that it's the issue it once was

1) Distance learning makes college later an easier thing.
2) Trades are screaming for skilled workers

[Fumesucker]

115. Trades are screaming for skilled workers

Who will work for unskilled wages.

Otherwise not so much screaming going on.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

117. Not from what I've seen

I visit many CNC shops who'd love to expand. They can't find qualified help. In my area, they've tried to spread the message to high schoolers that with as little as two-years of training, they can make $40-60K. In this part of the world, welders are a somewhat different problem. If they are younger, they tend to want to go work in the oil patch in North Dakota (where there is a great deal of money for certain skillsets). That's created a shortage.

I agree that, as a rule, I can't find help = I won't pay wages. That doesn't seem to be the case for these industries.

[Fumesucker]

121. I happen to have a friend who is a an extremely skilled CNC machinist

He's told me that after a forty year career he's never made more than $50K..

This is someone who among other things works directly with the engineers and orthopedic surgeons to make artificial joints and the many custom tools needed for the surgery.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

144. I'm not doubting you or your friend

I can only say that I've visited CNC shops in which the owners claiim that no one with less than a BA in engineering is sitting at a machine.

I don't want to create an argument where there isn't one. We're in basic agreement; when a business owner says "I can't find workers", what s/he really means is "I pay low wages."

Let me tell you why there are some exceptions -- cold climate and small towns.

One scenario I see a lot: viable trade work going-concern (i.e. plumbing, electrical, HVAC). Dad founded the business after WWII. Babyboomer son took over the business. Son is now in his 60s and looking to retire. Problem: he can't find anyone (including his kids) who want to work in small-town NE, SD, or IA. Keep in mind that these are states that had unemployment in the single (in some cses under 5%) throughout the great recession.

Scenario 2 is the one I've already told you, but let me expand. Take a town like Aberdeen, SD. Nice little town -- freezing ass cold in winter. Let' say you got $50K -- OK -- $50 K goes really far in a town like this. You'll most likely live in a 3-4 BR home, and your kids wil attend better than average public schools. If the spouse works to (let's say making 30K - 40K), you'll live really well. You could put money away; take nice vacations; buy a second home, or buy expensive toys (4-wheelers, camper trailers, personal watercraft). Problem -- people see South Dakota on a job advertisement and say "next!" I met a guy running a plant in Watertown, SD who came out of Florida when the economy fell into the dumper. He made decent money and thought it was a nice town; he also told me that all his wife did was b***h about how much she hated the place. So, while I agree that wages are key, there is also a certain amount of pickiess on the part of many American workers.

[Calista241]

108. The cost to attend my college is more than double what it was just 10 years ago.

If students come out of that with the same wage earning capability that I did, then I'd have to question whether it's worth the increased cost.

I definitely don't think they've doubled the quality of the education students receive. Do students really need these Club Med facilities that the Koch brothers would be proud of?

[Stargleamer]

109. An equation. . .

Republican Tax Cuts (that primarily benefit the rich) + Spending Cuts = Less money for Public Universities and Colleges = Public Universities and colleges greatly raising tuition costs to compensate for lost revenue = less people being able to attend public colleges and universities as a result of unaffordable tuition costs = less equality of opportunity which Republicans claim they are in favor of. Both Republican B.S. and cruelty exposed!

[kwassa]

113. Only about one-third of whites have ever received a college degree. This is not new.

The percentage discussed in this article is the norm, not an exception.

[davidpdx]

116. While I agree with the article

Perhaps the best part is this:

Why are those with less education doing so badly? The Great Recession is part of the answer. There has also been a trend in which jobs, when they return after a financial crisis, are worse than those that were lost. After the recession of the 80s, for example, unionized labor never again found jobs as good as the ones they'd had before the downturn. The same things has happened this time, only even more dramatically. The jobs that are returning are often part-time, underpaid, lacking in benefits and short on opportunities to advance. It’s great to embark on a career as an engineer at Apple, not so great to work in an Apple retail store, where pay is low and the hope for a career is minimal. The Great Recession amplified a trend of McJobs that had been gaining strength for decades, stoked by the decline in unions, deregulation, outsourcing, and poor corporate governance that have tilted the balance of power away from employees to such a degree that many young people now expect exploitation and poor conditions on the job simply as a matter of course, with no experience of how things could be any different.

If we had more unionized jobs that pay well, they would prove good alternatives to college. That use to be true here in our country. Unfortunately the unionized jobs are disappearing and the jobs in the post-Great Recession are crappy jobs. Add to that deregulation, outsourcing, and poor corporate governance. All of those are true. There are no more jobs down at the Schlitz Malt factory anymore (sorry Laverne & Shirley joke).

My half-sister is 10 years younger than me (that puts her right at the start of the millennials) and tried to go to college at least twice that I know of and couldn't do it. She's working as a CNA down in California, but the amount she gets paid isn't enough to live on due to the higher cost of living.

[Alittleliberal]

152. Not just that

But when you take out good manufacturing jobs in replace for my technological jobs, you get better high paying jobs. But less of them. There's too many of us for how many jobs there will be in the coming decades.

[Recursion]

123. Isn't the national rate something like 25%?

33% sounds like a very highly educated cohort...

[Reter]

138. It won't cost anyone if we just lower requirements for certain jobs

It's ridiculous that cops, correction officers, fire fighters, and even sanitation need collage credits in NYC.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

139. One question

If that 15% difference (62% versus 77%) enough to make the payments on their student loans that are often exorbitant, then that's a plus for the BA degree. In general it's a gamble on whether you think you'll find a job fast enough that pays well enough.

My college now charges almost exactly 10 times what I paid 35 years ago. I have no idea where the difference goes. My professors were mostly being paid around $35k/year. I don't think current profs make $350k/year.

[Iggo]

142. Goddam Baby Boomers!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

151. Don't be coy. It's men who aren't graduating.

As of 2010, 61% of masters, 57% of bachelors and 62% of associates degrees are awarded to women.

Among blacks, the difference is even more dramatic. For example, among U.S. residents, Black females earned 68 percent of associate's degrees, 66 percent of bachelor's degrees, 71 percent of master's degrees, and 65 percent of all doctor's degrees awarded to Black students.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/

Part of the reason is institutional sexism. Male only draft registration prevents men who don't register from getting student aid or loans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025692434

[woo me with science]

153. kick