How Cliven Bundy Defeated the US Government

[eridani]

I'm sure it helps to be white.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/26481-focus-how-cliven-bundy-defeated-the-us-government

Hatewatch has learned that Bundy, alongside Mack, participated in a conference call with the Republic for the united States of America (RuSA), a “sovereign citizen” group whose members believe the federal government is an illegal corporation designed to enslave citizens. Its members have been involved in violent interactions with police, run-ins with the Internal Revenue Service and widespread harassment of law enforcement.

As the Southern Poverty Law Center reported this summer, the government’s slow response and apparent reluctance or inability to hold Bundy accountable led to more potentially violent, antigovernment confrontations in Utah, Texas, Idaho, New Mexico and elsewhere.

And, in a July report, the Department of Homeland Security described a recent spike in antigovernment violence and noted that the “perceived success” of militias at the Bundy ranch “likely will embolden other militia extremists and like-minded lone offenders to attempt to replicate these confrontational tactics and force future armed standoffs.”

The truth of the matter is that until there is action holding those who broke the law accountable, it is likely that the current wave of antigovernment extremism will only continue to pick up speed.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I'm giving this a bump

Because some people are allowed more 'freedoms' than others. Extremists, separatists, bigots - they get more 'freedoms' than the rest of us.

Let black or hispanic people in Camden NJ pull a stunt like this entitled little snot (yep - just called that supposed grown assed man an entitled little snot) and see how different the response would be.

[Enthusiast]

5. +1 You nailed it.

[99Forever]

12. "All animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others."

A familiar refrain.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. "And the government's position: It ain't over til it's over" ...

(From the comments) ... and I completely agree.

Consider:

Bundy abandoned the GOP in favor of the Independent American Party of Nevada, which champions the idea of returning to the gold standard and frequently offers conspiracy theories about the United Nations and its Agenda 21. He has spoken to numerous far-right media outlets, touting his success in turning back the federal government as a victory for what the radical right frequently calls the “cause of liberty.” Members of his family have even become lifetime members of antigovernment groups like the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, former Arizona sheriff Richard Mack’s conspiracy-minded group composed of right-wing sheriffs who promise to keep federal aggressions at bay.

In recent months, Bundy himself has burrowed much deeper into the radical right than that even.

Hatewatch has learned that Bundy, alongside Mack, participated in a conference call with the Republic for the united States of America (RuSA), a “sovereign citizen” group whose members believe the federal government is an illegal corporation designed to enslave citizens. Its members have been involved in violent interactions with police, run-ins with the Internal Revenue Service and widespread harassment of law enforcement.

And put on your prosecutor's hat.

Do you:

A) Go after the couple of 10s, that showed up to "defend" Bundy's "liberty" (and gain the support of a few, "We Gotta Teach 'Em A Lesson" folks ... those that won't turn around and say, "Well, it took you long enough"?); or,

B) Follow Bundy (and his crew) down the tunnel of anti-government hate and root it out at its violent core?

I would choose the latter and the former precludes do the later.

[brer cat]

51. I agree.

I think the fat lady's aria is in a later Act.

[Cha]

55. That was my thought, 1Strong.. I doubt it's over.. just looks that way. I'm sure they think they got

away with shit.

[m-lekktor]

38. I agree. nt

[hobbit709]

2. A friend of mine's former son-in-law was one of those sovereign citizen idiots.

When he appeared in front of the judge on a domestic violence charge, he declared that the judge and the court had no jurisdiction over him.
The judge's response, "I think you are about to find out differently" and ordered him held without bail until the trial date to think it over.
3 months later he was a little more contrite when he appeared in front of the judge again but he still got a year for hitting his wife.

[Vietnameravet]

32. Proves the old truism

"when you got 'em by the balls, their minds and hearts will follow!"

[Erose999]

47. My uncle once made the mistake of asking a judge where he went to law school. The judge said "come

back and ask me in 30 days," and he was also held for 30 days without bail.

[vi5]

3. It does help to be white. It also helps...

To have one political party that completely cowtows to these idiots, and another too afraid to do anything about it, for fear of Fox news saying mean things about them and potentially losing white male redneck voters who would never vote for them anyway.

[zeemike]

18. Yep that is true.

One party supports the crazies and the other enables them.

[Nay]

26. Indeed, and this is why a good number of Democrats, many of them on this

board, are damned fed up with both 'parties.' The parties are more like 2 gangs -- one only a little less destructive than the other.

[Vietnameravet]

30. Yes its the Mad Bulldogs vs the Playfull Tabbies!

[The Wizard]

4. Bundy and his ilk

want a free ride, nothing more or less. The fact they have threatened violence against the government opens the door for the blindfold and cigarette solution.

[Enthusiast]

6. +1

[blackspade]

7. That still haven't locked this fool up yet?

WTF?

I guess the cops are too busy killing black people.....

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. Posted to for later.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Can't wait 1Strong

You always give good insight!

[MannyGoldstein]

9. He became an FOFN

Friend of Fox News.

He's radioactive to the White House now.

[riqster]

10. I said at the time that our failure to enforce the rule of law

...was a mistake and was roundly reviled for it.

[Fumesucker]

11. Don't worry, once the attention is off the Bundy Bunch the cops will move in and nab him

[riqster]

19. Ah yes. Any day now....

[IMG][/IMG]

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. See my comment #37 ...

L/E works best when egos are kept in check. Fortunately, the vast majority of L/E, especially at the federal level know and respect that.

[heaven05]

13. not by me

I thought at the time the 'govt' would wait till heat died down and nab him. I guess the govt is too afraid of inflaming white revolutionary passions ala 1776. Personally, you're right. They should all be locked up.

[Adrahil]

16. They goldurn should be!

Apparently the message is that if you point enough guns at the feds, they'll leave you alone. That's a very bad message. Meanwhile, this man continues to brazenly break the law. WTF? I'm glad holder is outta here. That situation was a fuckin' embrassment... poorly handled from the very beginning.

[riqster]

21. Too much concern with "optics".

[Adrahil]

34. Well, I get they didn't want a nasty shootout...

But it seems to me that the mishandling of the situation led to the stand-off. The guy has to leave his compound sometime. Arrest his ass when he does.

[riqster]

35. He has, they could have, and they did not.

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. Could that be ...

because they are following Bundy (and his crew) down the tunnel of anti-government hate so that they can root it out at its violent core?

Read the article about what Bundy and his crew have been doing.

[riqster]

43. I did read it. Sickening.

I doubt that there is some sort of super-secret undercover OP going on. I think the government is trying not to cause a sovereign citizen uprising.

And by doing nothing, they are actually increasing the likelihood of such an occurrence.

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. Why not? ...

I doubt that there is some sort of super-secret undercover OP going on.

That IS how L/E works. That's exactly what they did with the klan.

[riqster]

46. My experience with LE is otherwise. But then, I am in IT.

So I could well be mistaken.

I do hope I am proven wrong.

[riqster]

24. Oh, not everyone bashed me. But a good number did, and viciously.

Thanks for being civil.

[Jake Stern]

20. Said the same thing.

Cliven Bundy and his band of armed thugs are bullies. Idealists love to think that one can talk a bully into being nice. Doesn't happen very often.

Most bullies don't stop until someone gets the fortitude to fight back.

While it's noble to think that we avoided conflict sometimes, regretfully, conflict is necessary to enforce the rule of law. I fear that all the "Wacos" we're trying to avoid now are setting the stage for and inevitable one later.

[riqster]

22. Yep.

A few lines on the subject: http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/why-america-keeps-getting-kneecapped-by-republicans/

[Vietnameravet]

29. Right!

Absolutely true...they should be met with force...and never mind worrying about their feelings..."when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow!"

[Wounded Bear]

15. It sucks when crap like this is right...

Yeah, the separatists are emboldened by assholes like Bundy, and propped up by sensationalist "news" coverage like Fox spews out.

[HoosierCowboy]

17. Wait until...

....November 5.
This Administration has learned something about the "broken window rule", unlike the Ferguson PD.
No more Wacos, unlike Clinton/Reno
Mr. Bundy is in deep and is only digging himself a deeper hole.
But what do you do with a burned out old cowboy? Let him ride off into the sunset. Uncle Sams' collection agency will be there to foreclose, just leave him his horse.

[riqster]

23. I'll believe it when I see it.

But I don't expect to see it.

[Vietnameravet]

28. I hope you are correct but is this the way to treat criminals..

just wait until they die?

[TNNurse]

25. As long as he is walking around free

He appears to be winning.

[riqster]

36. Correct.

[Vietnameravet]

27. add my voice and vote to this post

I cant believe he and those that threatened to kill Federal agents are still walking around free... What the hell is the problem with sending in the Marines if needed to take him and the entire gang that supported him off to stand trial?
I am going to ask my Senator why this is and if I get an answer I will let everyone know...

[tkmorris]

31. Well, there's Posse Comitatus

That creaky old concept has had some holes punched in it in recent years but it's still illegal as hell to use the military in the manner you suggest, and I am damned glad that it is.

[jmowreader]

50. The National Guard are who you'd send in, not federal troops

This is one of the big reasons the federal government is paying for 54 militias. Because of the Posse Comitatus Act, they can't send the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines to quell disorder in a state...but the state's governor can send National Guard troops. And it just so happens the Nevada National Guard owns M1A1 Abrams tanks...

I think the real reason Bundy and his buddies are still walking the streets is the cops know sovereigns have a history of killing cops. They're armed to the teeth and they think the law doesn't apply to them. The sovereigns are also the reason the cops have turned into a goon squad: there have been a number of cops killed during routine traffic stops by sovereigns, and they're not taking any chances.

[Takket]

33. Why don't they just kick his door down in the middle of the night?

Like they do whenever a black person is wanted for selling an ounce of weed? He'll be in cuffs with a gun to his head before he even has time to pull ole Betsy out from under the pillow.

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. To borrow a line from the epic (Sean Penn) film ...

Colors ...

Why run down the hill and F@$% a couple of cows; when you can walk down, and F@#% them all?

[jen63]

52. I agree with you.

Our calm, cool and collected President has a looooong memory.

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. Actually I don't think President Obama ...

Will have much to do with it ... In fact, I don't think he gives these characters much mind, other than an occasional update at the tail end of other business.

[Marrah_G]

39. Imagine if it had been a bunch of black men pointing bushmasters at the feds?

Bundy won because he is white and he has money.

[riqster]

44. And support from some within the local law enforcement community.

[betterdemsonly]

48. If you follow the nevada blogs

like "Let's Talk Nevada" it looks like the problem was that right wing Mormons dominate law enforcement and blm jobs in that part of Nevada so they deliberately went easy on Bundy and Mack.

[greatlaurel]

49. That makes a lot of sense, why that nut was allowed to steal from the taxpayers.

Years ago I was warned about trying to go to grad school in the West due to the numbers of Mormons who run the universities there. Sounds like things have not improved in that regard. Religion is the root of so many problems.

[Major Nikon]

54. I think it was more complicated

The BLM initially closed the land and started rounding up Bundy's cattle per a court order that the BLM had been fighting with him for years. The order to suspend their local roundup came from BLM's headquarters in DC after numerous (Republican) lawmakers started pissing and moaning about "paramilitary" actions of the BLM.