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TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:22 AM Oct 2014

Saudi Arabia Beheaded 59 People So Far This Year —

...But Hardly Anyone is Talking About It

By Tom Breakwell
October 15, 2014 | 12:55 pm

The string of beheadings of American and British hostages at the hands of the Islamic State has drawn horror and intense media scrutiny the world over, redoubling international determination to defeat the extremist group.

But with IS dominating headlines, it is easy to forget that Saudi Arabia, a member of the UN's Human Rights Council and a close ally of America in the war against the Islamist fighters, is itself routinely carrying out the practice of beheading.

Since January of this year, 59 people have been beheaded in Saudi Arabia under the country's antiquated legal system based primarily around sharia law.

Last month saw Saudi Arabia behead at least 8 people — twice the number of Western hostages who have so far featured in IS's barbaric execution videos. In August those executed by Riyadh were sentenced to death for crimes such as apostasy, adultery and "sorcery." In one case, four members of the same family were executed for "receiving large quantities of hashish," a sentence imposed, according to Amnesty International, on the basis of "forced confessions extracted through torture."

<snip>

The practice is not confined to adults. According to Amnesty International, Saudi Arabia executed at least one person under the age of 18 this year, a violation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

More: https://news.vice.com/article/saudi-arabia-beheaded-59-people-so-far-this-year-but-hardly-anyone-is-talking-about-it

TYY
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Saudi Arabia Beheaded 59 People So Far This Year — (Original Post) TeeYiYi Oct 2014 OP
we hardly even owe them for oil anymore. Get rid of em (as friends) librechik Oct 2014 #1
Interesting concept... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #3
them and qatar belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #5
ISIS is supported by several Middle Eastern countries, I suspect. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #57
19 of the 911 attackers were saudis belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #4
And the 28 redacted pages of the 9/11 Commission Report... KansDem Oct 2014 #11
!... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #23
is that more than isis? who is the most prolific beheader the saudis or isis? belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #2
I don't think so... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #7
There is no empirical evidence supporting such a statement. [n/t] Maedhros Oct 2014 #33
There are... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #34
Ah. I stand corrected. [n/t] Maedhros Oct 2014 #41
Although ISIL has the lead this year, Saudi has history behind it jmowreader Oct 2014 #46
Good point. ..nt TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #49
Saudis are funding ISIS. That should be the real takeaway (nt) Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2014 #56
I thought get the red out Oct 2014 #6
"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. snooper2 Oct 2014 #8
Welp... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #10
from where do these passages come? belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #12
Surah 8:12 and AYAT Muhammad 47:4 snooper2 Oct 2014 #14
this is from the q'uran ? belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #15
From one of the 114 chapters in the Qur'an, each chapter is made up of verses snooper2 Oct 2014 #16
Barbaric! hrmjustin Oct 2014 #9
That's horrific, but so is this. JEB Oct 2014 #13
See, my choice of words would be 'that's horrific AND so is this' becaue to use the 'but' makes Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #18
Point well taken. DP is barbaric. Sadly, the USA doesn't have much moral high ground to stand on. KittyWampus Oct 2014 #24
+++++++ DrDan Oct 2014 #43
Good point. Both are horrific. JEB Oct 2014 #29
Is it really? Well then, we stopped executing gay people and adulterers and witches some time ago Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #54
Well, the North Koreans can always point at the Saudis hifiguy Oct 2014 #17
WE can maybe point to them too... KittyWampus Oct 2014 #20
Is this chart... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #25
From USA KittyWampus Oct 2014 #39
Thank you. ..nt TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #48
I think we have no idea what is going on in N. Korea. former9thward Oct 2014 #50
Maybe I'd rather be beheaded that injected with chemicals that torture me for 40 minutes first. KittyWampus Oct 2014 #19
It's generally imposed on sadistic and barbaric criminals Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2014 #55
1 Samuel 18:27 King James Bible Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #21
But....but.... NCTraveler Oct 2014 #22
Yep libodem Oct 2014 #26
True. bravenak Oct 2014 #27
That's ok lsewpershad Oct 2014 #28
Coke vs. Pepsi. hunter Oct 2014 #30
and we executed 39 or so I believe in 2013 and would have surpassed that number this year JCMach1 Oct 2014 #31
absolutely true DrDan Oct 2014 #44
True, a guillotine is probably the smoothest way to go Scootaloo Oct 2014 #51
Are these lethal acts really comparable? Bragi Oct 2014 #32
The issue is… TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #45
And? The USA has executed thirty people so far this year. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2014 #35
The point would be… TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #36
No, that's honestly stupid Spider Jerusalem Oct 2014 #37
I guess so... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #38
I think capital punishment should be abolished, personally. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2014 #40
horrible Liberal_in_LA Oct 2014 #42
Double vs triple to quintruple figures (I haven't been keeping track) is a major difference. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #47
Cruel and unusual ... JEFF9K Oct 2014 #52
Y'know how on some occasions there are issues where the far left and far right agree? Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2014 #53

librechik

(30,674 posts)
1. we hardly even owe them for oil anymore. Get rid of em (as friends)
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:24 AM
Oct 2014

put em on the terror list. I bet they're funding IS...

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
3. Interesting concept...
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:27 AM
Oct 2014

...and one that I hadn't considered. (re: I bet they're funding IS...)

Makes sense.

TYY

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
11. And the 28 redacted pages of the 9/11 Commission Report...
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:38 AM
Oct 2014

...points to the Saudis as involved in the attacks.

On the bottom floor of the United States Capitol’s new underground visitors’ center, there is a secure room where the House Intelligence Committee maintains highly classified files. One of those files is titled “Finding, Discussion and Narrative Regarding Certain Sensitive National Security Matters.” It is twenty-eight pages long. In 2002, the Administration of George W. Bush excised those pages from the report of the Joint Congressional Inquiry into the 9/11 attacks. President Bush said then that publication of that section of the report would damage American intelligence operations, revealing “sources and methods that would make it harder for us to win the war on terror.”

“There’s nothing in it about national security,” Walter Jones, a Republican congressman from North Carolina who has read the missing pages, contends. “It’s about the Bush Administration and its relationship with the Saudis.” Stephen Lynch, a Massachusetts Democrat, told me that the document is “stunning in its clarity,” and that it offers direct evidence of complicity on the part of certain Saudi individuals and entities in Al Qaeda’s attack on America. “Those twenty-eight pages tell a story that has been completely removed from the 9/11 Report,” Lynch maintains. Another congressman who has read the document said that the evidence of Saudi government support for the 9/11 hijacking is “very disturbing,” and that “the real question is whether it was sanctioned at the royal-family level or beneath that, and whether these leads were followed through.” Now, in a rare example of bipartisanship, Jones and Lynch have co-sponsored a resolution requesting that the Obama Administration declassify the pages.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/twenty-eight-pages


Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?

jmowreader

(50,546 posts)
46. Although ISIL has the lead this year, Saudi has history behind it
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 04:21 PM
Oct 2014

Saudi Arabia was beheading people before the Vikings discovered the North American continent. ISIL would have to behead a thousand people a year for the next 10,000 years to even dream of catching up to Saudi Arabia.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
8. "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:31 AM
Oct 2014

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."


verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”



 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
18. See, my choice of words would be 'that's horrific AND so is this' becaue to use the 'but' makes
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:59 AM
Oct 2014

it possible for the reader to infer that the one horror is being used to minimize the other.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
43. +++++++
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 03:42 PM
Oct 2014

agree 110%

we absolutely have NO moral ground with this issue

our state-sponsored torture ranks right up there with the best

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
29. Good point. Both are horrific.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:25 PM
Oct 2014

One is supposedly more under our control. It is best to clean ones own house before demanding someone else clean theirs. That is why I used but.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
54. Is it really? Well then, we stopped executing gay people and adulterers and witches some time ago
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 09:10 PM
Oct 2014

Personally, once a 'house' makes my existence a punishable offense, I don't give a fuck if someone thinks I should become a perfected master prior to criticizing them. I'm funny that way.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
17. Well, the North Koreans can always point at the Saudis
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 11:58 AM
Oct 2014

and say "at least we're not as bad as them" and actually be correct for once. Which is a statement that boggles the mind.

Saudi Arabia is the overflowing moral and ethical sewer that contains everything that is worst in humanity.

former9thward

(31,961 posts)
50. I think we have no idea what is going on in N. Korea.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 08:55 PM
Oct 2014

Who knows how many they execute or in what manner.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
19. Maybe I'd rather be beheaded that injected with chemicals that torture me for 40 minutes first.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:01 PM
Oct 2014
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/5760

Death penalty is counter productive and barbaric.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
55. It's generally imposed on sadistic and barbaric criminals
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 09:11 PM
Oct 2014

Just sayin'

FWIW, I'm against the DP on practical, as opposed to moral, grounds. It costs more to go through DP appeals than it does to keep someone locked up for life.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
21. 1 Samuel 18:27 King James Bible
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:06 PM
Oct 2014
Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.

hunter

(38,309 posts)
30. Coke vs. Pepsi.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:26 PM
Oct 2014

The U.S.A. brand of conservative punitive fundamentalism has more high fructose corn syrup in it to hide the underlying bite.

But any nation that has a death penalty is primitive and barbaric.

JCMach1

(27,553 posts)
31. and we executed 39 or so I believe in 2013 and would have surpassed that number this year
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:30 PM
Oct 2014

if it were not for stays related to the medical botching of executions in several states. And yet 'hardly anyone talks about it',,,...


A proper beheading is most likely less cruel and unusual than the pseudo-medical dog and pony show we carry out in this country...

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
44. absolutely true
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 03:45 PM
Oct 2014

I have seen several - and they in no way compare to the burning flesh, flames shooting from under the headgear, prolonged spasms and so on of our techniques.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
51. True, a guillotine is probably the smoothest way to go
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 09:01 PM
Oct 2014

A split second, thunk, you're dead. There's probably a shock of pain for a few more seconds, before your brain shuts off from lack of oxygen coming in, if the blade's impact to the spinal cord didn't already render the brain insensible.

Bragi

(7,650 posts)
32. Are these lethal acts really comparable?
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:53 PM
Oct 2014

I'm no defender of the Saudis, but it seems to me this beheading head-count comparison is not particularly apt.

The Saudis use beheading as a form of capital punishment, done in accordance with what passes for laws and a judicial process in their country.

ISIS uses beheadings as a grisly PR stunt to threaten the west and attract western recruits, and also (in larger numbers) as a way of killing off perceived/declared enemies in seized and occupied territories.

I don't think these things are equivalent. The Saudis use of beheadings is more like, say, what Texas and other US capital punishment states do.

(For the record, I am opposed to all forms of capital punishment.)

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
45. The issue is…
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 04:01 PM
Oct 2014

…"beheadings" in scare quotes as an excuse for war.

It was the act of beheading that offended the sensibilities of Americans and swayed their opinion toward approval of war with ISIS.

TYY

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
35. And? The USA has executed thirty people so far this year.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 02:48 PM
Oct 2014

Mote and beam. (And beheading is quicker and more merciful than letting someone lay strapped to a gurney, snorting and gasping for air while flailing like a hooked fish, for over an hour...as has happened in the USA very recently).

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
37. No, that's honestly stupid
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 03:01 PM
Oct 2014

because ISIS are terrorists executing hostages. Saudi Arabia is executing condemned criminals after a trial and conviction in accordance with their laws. There is a very large difference between the two, and it's absurdly hypocritical for Americans (who also execute people) to point at Saudi Arabian capital punishment and say "why aren't we going after them too?" This is what's called "false equivalence".

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
38. I guess so...
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 03:08 PM
Oct 2014

...if you consider apostasy, adultery and sorcery to be crimes worthy of a death sentence.

Last month saw Saudi Arabia behead at least 8 people — twice the number of Western hostages who have so far featured in IS's barbaric execution videos. In August those executed by Riyadh were sentenced to death for crimes such as apostasy, adultery and "sorcery." In one case, four members of the same family were executed for "receiving large quantities of hashish," a sentence imposed, according to Amnesty International, on the basis of "forced confessions extracted through torture."

TYY
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
40. I think capital punishment should be abolished, personally.
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 03:15 PM
Oct 2014

The USA's use of it is just as backwards and barbaric as Saudi Arabia's. I don't think that possession of two ounces of crack should see someone sent to prison for 20 years, either, talking of fucked-up legal systems (which we actually aren't; if you want to talk about the Saudi justice system and its use of capital punishment, then we can have that conversation, but it really has nothing whatever to do with ISIS and their arbitrary execution of hostages.)

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
53. Y'know how on some occasions there are issues where the far left and far right agree?
Mon Oct 20, 2014, 09:08 PM
Oct 2014

Saudi Arabia is becoming one of those issues. A righty I oerheard today basically spoke of how we ahould stand with Israel and the Kurds because they support our values, and how Saudi Arabia is funding ISIS.

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