Ebola: Is bushmeat behind the outbreak?

[NickB79]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29604204

Bushmeat is believed to be the origin of the current Ebola outbreak. The first victim's family hunted bats, which carry the virus. Could the practice of eating bushmeat, which is popular across Africa, be responsible for the current crisis?

The origin has been traced to a two-year-old child from the village of Gueckedou in south-eastern Guinea, an area where batmeat is frequently hunted and eaten.

The infant, dubbed Child Zero, died on 6 December 2013. The child's family stated they had hunted two species of bat which carry the Ebola virus.

Bushmeat or wild animal meat covers any animal that is killed for consumption including antelopes, chimpanzees, fruit bats and rats. It can even include porcupines and snakes.

Experts on disease have warned us for YEARS that going deep into unexplored forests for meat is a disaster waiting to happen.

For example, this is from 2012: https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/science-public/bush-meat-can-be-viral-feast

Bush meat can be a viral feast

[uppityperson]

1. And this is why a vaccine is dearly needed. Outbreaks will continue to happen.

[MineralMan]

2. Hungry people eat what they can.

They will continue to do so. The answer is to help end hunger and poverty. While a vaccine might help, universal vaccination is an elusive goal, and can take decades.

People eat bush meat to survive. It is that simple.

[NickB79]

5. Many consuming bushmeat are NOT doing so because of poverty

http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/uploads/files/05f03ea8-0fcd-4a8b-9c6c-c2eaad3be607-monitoring.pdf

While those in rural portions of West Africa do rely on bushmeat for protein to survive as you said, it states that bushmeat is actually more expensive to purchase than beef in urban areas, yet is still very popular due to the demand from the growing middle class there. Clearly, there is more to the bushmeat trade in Africa than the idea of poor people eating whatever they can catch in traps.

[MineralMan]

6. Yah, well, people eat lutefisk here in the United States, too.

There's no accounting for traditional tastes in food. Oddly enough, lutefisk is rarely eaten in Scandinavia today.

[NickB79]

10. We Minnesotans are weird that way

I'm of German and Polish descent, but one of my ex's had me try lukefish at a family Christmas.

Never again.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. Or, people dream up theories as to disease origins ...

that demonize, already demonized peoples.

Aboriginal Peoples have eaten "Bush Meat" from almost the beginning of time ... or, at least, since they discovered that Bush Meat - medium-rare, goes down nicely when paired with a nice Murrin Bridge Black!

http://www.murrinbridgeweb.com/vineyard.html

[NickB79]

18. So, your alternate disease origin theory is......?

Given the fact we've found Ebola and Ebola-like infections in wild animal populations throughout West Africa, and it's likely these diseases have existed for millions of years?

[snooper2]

23. um, not really, here is some real journalism on the subject- VICE

oh, and how strong are you?

[hunter]

17. Yep.

The answer is "yes."

People also sell bush meat to survive.

If everyone had plenty of good, tasty, much less dangerous food, then the bush meat problem would go away.

Free canned or aseptic packaged "meats," even if they were mostly or all vegetable in origin, is a good answer to the problem.

No, not Soylent Green, more like Tofurky and all the various veggie burgers.

I've enjoyed some that are better than beef, pork, poultry, or fish.

[Marrah_G]

3. Most likely bushmeat is the cause

Butchering/hunting is one of the most common ways that viruses jump species. It's hard to stop in places where food is already scarce. There are no supermarkets and food stamps for the poor.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. Wait ...

wasn't bush meat the source of HIV/AIDS? Come on, people!

Bushmeat is believed to be the origin of the current Ebola outbreak. The first victim's family hunted bats, which carry the virus. Could the practice of eating bushmeat, which is popular across Africa, be responsible for the current crisis?

...

Experts on disease have warned us for YEARS that going deep into unexplored forests for meat is a disaster waiting to happen.

Funny ... Aboriginal Peoples have been eating "bush meat" since ... well ... since forever!

And, I suspect ... there is very few parts of this Earth (land) that remains, unexplored ... by the aboriginal Peoples.

Maybe the "experts on diseases" (or those listening to them on this point) used/heard the wrong word ... Perhaps they meant, "Unexploited" Forests!

[NickB79]

7. And it's likely they were infected with these diseases frequently

But due to their small populations, often isolated from one another, the diseases had no way to spread and the infections burned out.

Ebola-type viruses, for example, may have been in existence for tens of millions of years: http://phys.org/news196925610.html

But once human populations reach the hundreds of millions in a given area, have increased mobility via roads, and start clustering in dense cities, you create the conditions needed to sustain a long, spreading infection.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. Possibly ...

Or, the initial theory is plan incorrect, as over the span of 10s of millions of years, the entire population of Aboriginal Peoples would have been wiped out.

[NickB79]

22. Like I said: relatively small, isolated populations

Easily explains how local populations could have survived by eating bushmeat for thousands of years without being wiped out. Not every wild animal would carry a transferrable disease; a person could potentially go their entire life without being exposed.

The science backs the existence of Ebola-like diseases in wild animals for millions of years, and we know humans have been eating such species for as long as we could hunt.

There aren't many competing theories to explain where Ebola and HIV came from, unless you fall into the CT nut fringe who think the CIA did it via genetic engineering.

[Orrex]

8. The other, related, story I heard in the 80s...

was that HIV jumped to humans via aboriginal Africans fornicating with chimps.

A very enlightened assessment, to be sure, with no racist subtext whatsoever. No sir!


In pretty much every large-scale crisis, the priority is on blaming those farthest from the levers of power.

[Marrah_G]

11. Yes it was the cause- it is the cause for many viruses that jump species.

Hunting does not always causes zoonosis, but sometimes it does. It's a risk that people take when they need to hunt to eat.

HIV crossed from a very particular group of chimps and has probably been around far longer then they can trace back.

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I'm not a biologist; but I didn't buy the racist theory back in the 1980s ...

and I do not buy it now.

Funny how zoonosis only comes out of Africa ... not any other place.

Oh yeah ... wouldn't Venison and Possum be considered "Bush Meat", if it was consumed in North America?

[Marrah_G]

20. Zoonosis happens all over

It happens alot in SE Asia, for example. Open air markets are a breeding ground for all sorts of new emerging viruses. This is where the next pandemic will most likely come from.

It happens more in tropical climates and is more frequent in areas where people need to hunt/butcher to live.

And yes, deer and possum are forms of bush meat. Not all bush meat are known hosts of deadly viruses and not all members of a species of known hosts are infected. it's sort of like russian roulette, the more you play, the higher your chances of something bad happening.

[NickB79]

26. So, your theory of HIV's origin is.......?

I didn't buy the racist theory back in the 1980s

[bravenak]

29. Not Africans havimg sex with monkeys.

[NickB79]

32. Which was never an actual, scientific theory

The poster I responded to seems to be questioning ALL theories about diseases spreading from wild animals to humans, based upon the responses in this thread. Which is why I was hoping said poster would present their belief as to the origin of HIV and Ebola.

[bravenak]

33. That was the theory he was panning.

[NickB79]

34. So when he says

I didn't buy the racist theory back in the 1980s ... and I do not buy it now.

What theory is he panning? The "racist" theory that Ebola spread to humans via bushmeat consumption?

The exact same theory widely believed today as to where HIV originated from?

[bravenak]

35. The same theory that i just explained.

The theory was.... That aids came from africans having sex with animals. He did not believe it then nor now. That theory was actually taught to me in school. As fact.

[NickB79]

36. Sigh, let's go over this one more time

I didn't buy the racist theory back in the 1980s ...and I do not buy it now.

First, he never came back to this thread to explain what he meant here. You stating that he meant the "theory" of men having sex with monkeys as an origin of HIV is simply conjecture on your part, as he never stated that in his own posts. I'd be very curious what school actually taught you that HIV originated via man-on-monkey sex; that was NEVER an actual, scientific theory outside the bootlickers that Ronald Reagan employed during the early days of the HIV epidemic to allow him to keep ignoring the disease as long as possible.

Second, he then compares said theory of HIV's origins to the current theory of Ebola's origins. I haven't seen anyone outside a KKK rally theorize Ebola came from men fucking monkeys, so what exactly was he trying to say here?

Third, in multiple posts on this thread he dismisses the idea that zoonosis from animals to humans occurs, or has occurred in the past.

Taken together, it leaves a very conspiracy theory-ish taste in my mouth.

[bravenak]

37. Maybe he went to work.

He does that all the time. He often comes back later to check his posts.

[Marrah_G]

30. I found a good article for you

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/sunday-review/the-ecology-of-disease.html?pagewanted=all

It is a pretty good explanation of viral spillovers.

[hedgehog]

13. My neighbors go out back on my property hunting bush meat every year;

mostly deer and wild turkey.......

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. Thank you! eom.

[hedgehog]

21. Honored to be of service!

[NickB79]

25. And in N. America, we're concerned about prion-based wildlife diseases jumping species

Simply study Chronic Wasting Disease in whitetail deer that states are trying to keep a handle on.

And there has been evidence squirrel hunters have become infected with a Mad Cow variant by eating squirrel brains (a local delicacy in the South): http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/29/us/kentucky-doctors-warn-against-a-regional-dish-squirrels-brains.html

Whenever people eat meat, there's a risk of zoonosis. Whenever they eat wild meats, the risk increases.

To discount the risk is unwise.

[greatlaurel]

39. Great post! There are lots of zoonotic diseases in the US that get no funding for research.

There is histoplasmosis, "Histoplasmosis is an infection caused by breathing in spores of a fungus often found in bird and bat droppings. Histoplasmosis is most commonly transmitted when these spores become airborne, often during cleanup or demolition projects.
Soil contaminated by bird or bat droppings also can transmit histoplasmosis, so farmers and landscapers are at a higher risk of the disease. In the United States, histoplasmosis most commonly occurs in the Mississippi and Ohio river valleys." The page I linked to make it sound like, you can only get a bad case of it if you are immunocompromised and that is not true. Healthy adults can and do get it where I live and it is not a pleasant or easy disease to get over. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/histoplasmosis/basics/definition/CON-20026585

An interesting zoonotic disease that occurs in deer is Epizootic hemorrhagic disease (EHD), a hemorrhgic viral disease carried by midges that can also infect cattle, sheep, and goats. The Ohio Department of Natural Resources say it is fine to eat meat from EHD infected deer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epizootic_Hemorrhagic_Disease Another related disease is Bluetongue disease. It is a non-contagious, insect-borne, viral disease of ruminants, mainly sheep and less frequently cattle,[1] goats, buffalo, deer, dromedaries and antelope. It is caused by the Bluetongue virus (BTV). The virus is transmitted by the midge Culicoides imicola, Culicoides variipennis and other culicoids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetongue_disease

Then there is the endemic disease of Tularemia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tularemia. Fortunately, tularemia is a bacterial disease and can be treated with antibiotics, if you are properly diagnosed. Tularemia can be spread from rabbits during butchering by hunters.

I find the criticism of people in Africa hunting for food really disgusting. While I would wish they do not hunt species to extinction, we Americans have no great record not hunting species into extinction. These people have as much reason to hunt for food as American deer, rabbit or pheasant hunters do.

[hedgehog]

14. They should learn to eat farm raised food like us.......

http://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/2011-foodborne-estimates.html

[SidDithers]

19. Vice did a good bit on this earlier this year...

Sid

[hedgehog]

24. and, just a reminder of what some of us here eat - (Warning for vegetarians)

[NickB79]

28. As opposed to

[RiffRandell]

27. That's what I read last week.

I read one report that said the boy contracted it from a bat bite.

The second one reported what you posted, which seems more logical to me.

I will admit I got paranoid because we have a bat house and read up on it, but I think we're fine.

[Marrah_G]

31. It's certain types of bats in certain places

In the US rabies is the reason to avoid bats

[stevenleser]

38. Interesting. Two of the bigger tribes in Kenya have taboos against eating Bushmeat. The Maasai and

the Samburu will only eat meat from domestic flocks of goats and cows. Usually taboos like this develop for a reason.

[AverageJoe90]

40. Similar to the Judeo-Islamic taboos against pork, as well, I presume? nt

[stevenleser]

41. Probably. I think eating pork in biblical times was probably a risky endeavor. nt

[Yo_Mama]

42. Well, multiple answers

1) Other studies have shown that fruit gathering may be a means of transmission from bat saliva on the fruit. This is fruit gathered in forest regions. This study done in Gabon was most impressive:
http://en.ird.fr/the-media-centre/scientific-newssheets/337-possible-natural-immunity-to-ebola

2) The team that did the early analysis of the virus causing the current West African outbreak came up with different conclusion:
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/40896/title/Ebola-Outbreak-Strains-Sequenced/

Specifically, the team’s analysis suggested that the Ebola virus strain circulating in West Africa diverged from Middle African lineages around 2004, and has since shown sustained human-to-human transmission. While the researchers were unable to pinpoint the original animal source of the virus, they did not find any evidence of additional zoonotic sources in the outbreak strains.

“The organism is changing all the time and that can create problems,” said University of Warwick microbial genomicist Mark Pallen. To devise effective countermeasures, he added, “you need to be clear which parts of the genome are staying fairly static.”

I know I read an interview with a German scientist who has done lab work (RT-PCR analysis) there in this outbreak, and he said that some sequences had to be discarded (no longer worked).

3) The differences in this outbreak (sustained, increasing, escaping control efforts) cannot be attributed to bush meat at all. Look at the table at the end of this analysis (relatively early figures):
http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/article/estimating-the-reproduction-number-of-zaire-ebolavirus-ebov-during-the-2014-outbreak-in-west-africa/

It's possible that something changed in the virus - that it shifted during the clamp in Guinea (suppression efforts) to select some slower strains of the virus, which then hopped the surveillance/quarantine boundaries and started crossing populations impressively. In Sierra Leone, the induction looks totally different right from the get go. In Liberia the induction looks similar to Sierra Leone.

There are alternative explanations, one of which might be that the first "burst" of infections in both Sierra Leone and Liberia (not the initials, the first three weeks of secondaries) came through the medical system itself, which would account for the rapid increases in cases with longer incubations due to lower initial exposures.

But whatever you are seeing there, it is not bushmeat. Human populations in Africa are constantly being exposed to the wild virus, so you have constant infections. But as of April, it's a very definite human-spread disease.

RNA viruses mutate right in one human body, so you'd expect this thing to accumulate some mutations in the current outbreak - but you'd also expect to select back toward whatever spreads the fastest in the cities, because there the fastest (most virulent) strain wins the battle and propagates itself.