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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn Ferguson, the Grand Jury Is Out and the Fix Is in
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/in-ferguson-the-grand-jury-is-out-and-the-fix-is-inWilson claims that it was Brown who lunged through the window of Wilson’s vehicle. That it was Brown who left Wilson with multiple facial injuries. That it was Brown who went for Wilson’s gun. That it was Brown who so terrified Wilson, that the six-year police veteran shot him, leaving blood splattered on the inside of the police car. That it was Brown who, in running away and attempting to surrender, was such a significant threat that Wilson was compelled to shoot him at least five more times as Brown fled.
Wilson’s testimony is consistent with the narrative that the Ferguson police department has been attempting to sell since the day of the incident: Wilson was threatened; Wilson was attacked. Wilson feared for his life; Wilson defended himself with lethal gunfire against a man who stood at least 35 feet away. Parts of that narrative have already been shown to be false. Brown was closer to 100 feet away when Wilson fired the killing shots, far outside the distance at which he could have posed an imminent threat. The facial wounds that Wilson suffered at Brown’s hands? They were so minor that Wilson never even bothered to consult with medics who were on the scene. Piece by piece, the threads of the police narrative are becoming unwoven.
This is, of course, the rankest nonsense, but the fact that it has been leaked to the press suggests that this nonsense might be taken seriously, that the grand jury might actually find it credible that Wilson feared for his life, both in the initial confrontation, and in the seconds that followed. If that is indeed the direction they are leaning, they will ignore Wilson’s accountability for Brown's murder.
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spin
(17,493 posts)It seems to me that the incident had two separate events. The first occured in the police car and the second outside the car.
Some talking heads I have watched on cable news state that Wilson is responsible for and has to justify every shot he fired. From the evidence that I have obtained from the news it seems logical that he could be charged for his actions outside of his car.
scarystuffyo
(733 posts)
global1
(25,241 posts)If what I heard was true and he is setting up a commission - I think he knows what the Grand Jury's decision is and he wants to get out in front of it and make it seem like he is doing something.
scarystuffyo
(733 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)informed of the GJ's decision already? If so, can you please provide a link to that information?
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Anyone who knows anything about how the PR part of government goes, knows how they operate. It just takes common sense to figure out how things are going to go with this.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)cooled off when he decides that no charges will be filed.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)And they wouldn't give a story of what happened until witnesses were all through. This is because they are going to manufacture a story and plant evidence...very common with these KKK thugs.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)judicial system. Question: is there any legal authority you would trust to make an honest and aboveboard determination as to whether probably cause exists that Wilson be indicted for murder?
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)All so they could craft it later to fit their narrative once they heard every one else's stories.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I would trust them to make that determination. I have no use for this DA who is much too involved with the police department.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)ties to local law enforcement, I might be willing to trust the outcome of the Grand Jury proceedings. But with McCulloch manning the shop? Give me a fucking break. They guy's every utterance exudes conflict of interest.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)would also work for me (as long as they're from out of state and have no ties to law enforcement in MO). This clown? Makes me nauseous he's in charge of this.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)All of the so called Media is being spoon fed this shit on a daily basis. Trying to do a Zimmerman with Wilson. Watch and see.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Blood, bullets...you name it....there is a reason they didn't give a story at first...they had to see how to craft their LIES. And I know you agree because we all know what happened to Wellstone when he decided to oppose the Iraq War and was a Democratic Nominee frontrunner. It keeps people like Obama in check knowing he was killed but, unlike Obama, Paul was a warrior and not a coward...he was willing to risk his life to be the Leader of the world and create change rather than pay it lip service and collect speech fees later.
OldRedneck
(1,397 posts)Count on it.
CanonRay
(14,101 posts)based on the way the PD "conducted" (actually failed to conduct) any on site investigation.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)And it was mostly blank.
Keep in mind that they didn't even want to reveal the NAME of the cop and they let him leave town. (No doubt hoping all of this would blow over in a few days/weeks)
marym625
(17,997 posts)Tomorrow is a huge protest day across the country against police brutality. Nineteenth annual October 22. So there will already be mass groups of people.
This will be bad.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)tomorrow? If so, is there any way you can provide a link to it?
marym625
(17,997 posts)The leaders of the protest in Ferguson have been given the impression from officials that 8th will be tomorrow.
We know that the grand jury is out. The actions and speeches the last two days seem to be leading up to it.
It has been said in the press that the Washington Post will have a "leaked" story tomorrow. The SLCPD have said they are "letting the people down easy with the 'leaks'"
I think it might be another couple days only because tomorrow will have big protests regardless about police brutality. But ya never know
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)national protests against police brutality are planned (including one out here in Los Angeles).
Maybe the plan is to kettle up all protesters on the same day, a sort of national Night of Long Knives. Wife and I have been debating whether to attend the one at Olympic and Broadway at 2 p.m. tomorrow. Often times, these events do little more than 'preach to the (already) converted.'
marym625
(17,997 posts)One at 9am, the big one at noon and then a candle light vigil at 6pm. I planned on going to the noon March but now I have a meeting and can't.
Yeah, I agree. If they announced tomorrow, there could be bloodshed across the country.
Sigh.
Article stating they're prepping for it
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/20/former-police-chief-speaks-on-latest-michael-brown-information-released/
raven mad
(4,940 posts)EXCEPT when they're also caught on videotape..........
I hate this. Maybe the Feds can straighten part of it out.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts) marym625
(17,997 posts)
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)galling, jaw-dropping moments, among many, in this whole Ferguson ordeal, is the cops wearing bracelets with Darren Wilson's name engraved on them. In other words, the cops were taking the side of a murderer.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)
logosoco
(3,208 posts)It's rigged too much in the favor of "power".
If this murderer gets acquitted I worry about what the cops will do, since they have already been getting away with too much.
Now would be a really good time for the good cops to make a stand and speak out against the bad ones.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts) KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)for every American citizen.
Are we willing to risk life and\or liberty to ensure that justice is secured for Michael Brown? Or are we going to let a craven political hack like McCulloch who exudes conflict of interest with his every utterance steer his grand jury to a 'no bill'? Are we going to let Michael Brown's corpse rot in the ground while the killer cop Darren Wilson escapes accountability and walks around a free man? If so, can we say that there is any such thing as 'justice' still here?
SamKnause
(13,091 posts)Different day, year, decade, or century; same sickening evil actions by hate filled individuals.
They are pushing this country in the direction of division that will have dire consequences.
They have intentionally incited fear and mistrust.
They have used the media to spread their lies and to demean an entire race.
I have no answers on how to heal such a divided, uniformed, and frightened country.
Our justice system is corrupt.
Our penal system is corrupt and brutal.
The U.S. is not what it advertises itself to be.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)And are you claiming that Wilson was NOT attacked?
Where was it established that Brown was "attempting to surrender"?
Aren't other people trying to sell narratives here? "Attempting to surrender" is also a narrative that some people are buying.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Wilson's own self-serving account? If not, please provide a non-Wilsonian link to a witness saying that Wilson was attacked.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)No one here knows EVERYTHING that happened that day, what we know and post is based on a media interested in ratings above accuracy, those on both sides that leaked information, accurate or otherwise, to support their side of the story and the speculation on our part of what happened based partly on our own minds filling in the gaps and our own biases.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)"there was a struggle inside the car". Even Johnson said so. Except he made the ridiculous claim that Wilson pulled Brown into the car. I just flat out do not believe that account. Nobody on earth is going to fight with a much larger man by trying to pull him on top of himself. That's simply preposterous.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 22, 2014, 02:24 PM - Edit history (1)
Brown 'attacked' Wilson nor that Brown 'went for Wilson's gun'. Not one.
Speaking of preposterous.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)proves Brown was in the car.
Either he attacked Wilson, or Wilson made the ridiculously stupid move of trying to pull a large man on top of himself.
The first scenario is far more plausible. To believe the second seems like people are grasping at straws to maintain their preferred point of view.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Because he was a Negro hopped up on reefer?
No wonder Wilson had to shoot him numerous times. He had superhuman strength because of the devil weed.
Note to the sarcasm-impaired: I find this scenario implausible.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Frankly, I have not formed an opinion yet, because I don't believe I have seen all the facts. But at no point did I see the poster refer to "negro" and your attempt to call them a racist in order to discredit their view (as opposed to attacking the merits of their position) is disgusting and lazy.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The other narrative is that Mr. Brown, who was a black guy, was a thug high on marijuana who decided to attack the cop.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Regardless of race, I have known people who have zero respect for authority. I have known some people who have done something wrong, were fearful of getting caught, felt like the were cornered and about to get caught and irrationally lashed out, thinking they could escape.
Frankly, knowing what we do, this is a possibility. If there was a white person who robbed a store and minutes later had an altercation with police, I would say the same scenario would be possible.
Now, I also know there are many cops who are jaded by their job. Many have dispositions that cause them to abuse their power because of the sense of superiority the have gained over years on the job.
Thus, on the surface, when the story very first broke, my gut was that the police officer abused his power. Then the facts of the individual robbing a store came out and it opened up other possibilities of what could have played out. Now that we know more (but clearly not all) facts about the struggle within the car, it appears more likely the young adult may have acted irrationally and felt he could escape the corner he felt trapped in. I really don't see someone abusing their power trying to reach out a car window, grab someone much larger than them, get a hold of them and successfully pull them in through the window when the individual outside has all the leverage. I just don't think it is physically possible with the facts that we know. However, I can acknowledge that it is still possible that the young man felt threatened and irrationally thought he could escape the predicament.
Now, that said, that is not a death sentence by itself. I have not sufficient evidence that he would have been grabbing for a gun. However, let's assume he was. Mid that was the case, the polices officer would have been justified in shooting him in the hand. However, that by itself does not give the police officer the right to empty his clip once the threat has been eliminated.
Again, I emphasize I do not have the facts and will not judge. My personal opinion is that the police officer stopped a couple young kids who were dumb shits, walking down the middle of the street as if they were tough (I have personally experienced this with young men of all races). He took this as a threat and reacted poorly, leading the young man to feel threatened and fearful (possibly fueled by the crime he committed recently). There was a struggle that was probably initiated by the police officer, leading to the young man to act irrationally. The police officer eliminated the threat, but continued to press forward. The main question is what happened after the police officer got out of the car. Some witnesses say he continued to abuse his power and irrationally and illegally emptied his clip. Others say there was still a threat and he defended himself.
The area the I feel the least comfortable about is what happened after the struggle in the car. Originally, it appeared to be obvious, as multiple witnesses said he was shot from behind. Then evidence came out, saying he was not shot from behind and these witnesses change their story. I am not saying they lied, as I would bet facts tend to blur when in a situation like this. Thus, I would like to see more evidence about what took place outside the vehicle.
I have said again and again that I will not form an opinion based on supposition. Imreallyndont see how that makes me a racist. And someone's unwillingness to discuss the merits and facts in leu of just calling them a racist is cheap.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts).... just robbed a store!?
Rob a store, high... jump a cop...
Probable?!
HELL NAW!!!
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)But you think it is probable a trained police officer made the decision to grab a 6 foot four, 300 hundred pound person by the neck and pull them into his car.....and succeeded.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)...Wilson in a split second
I'd bet bottom dollar he's an racist bastard... the KKK just doesn't come out and support anyone...
Killing a black person is what they do... and have done it with impunity for day one
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)I am not talking about hyperbole or generalizations after the event.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)There was a struggle at that point. Brown got shot the initial time.
It seems likely Wilson pulled his weapon (as opposed to Brown, leaning in through the driver's side window, reaching across Wilson's body, and grabbing his gun) and shot Brown in the arm in the course of the struggle.
That still leaves the multiple shots fired outside the car...
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)However, those gaps are also why I resist the urge to form an opinion. Frankly, I am shocked at how many people will stake their life on knowing what happened.
I agree with the poster above in that I cannot think a rational person would try to detain a person by reaching out a window and pulling them in. Additionally, I would imagine it would take quite a feat of strength to pull that off (seriously, imagine trying to grab someone with only your arm strength against the leverage of their entire body).
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I've seen enough of that to last a lifetime.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)to pull Brown into the car.
But Johnson is black, so he can't be telling the truth, right?
You're the one grasping at straws. Again, no (non-Wilson) witness claims Brown was attacking Wilson. Not one!
strawberries
(498 posts)How come you don't get your hand slapped. There was a post about boobs on the ground and being a female in the working world I was not offended.
I couldn't post for 2 hours because "boobs on the ground" didn't offend me.
you guys inthe 300-500 post seem to be challenging those here who just accept what they read here as factual
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... blacks are backing Wilsons unwritten "truths" /saracsm
Yeap, I'm watching some folk
Travelman
(708 posts)I've seen this claim cropping up a lot on the internet the last couple of weeks (the distance seems to keep growing; I've seen fifty feet, seventy feet, eighty feet, and now 100 feet), but so far, I've found no credible basis for the claim.
It's PLAINLY obvious from the video taken after the shooting that Brown did indeed fall about 30-35 feet from the cruiser. So, that means that between the time of the altercation at the cruiser until the moment of the fatal shot striking Michael Brown, he has to have run 100 feet in one direction, then turned around, AND RAN SIXTY-FIVE FEET BACK TOWARDS WILSON. IF this is actually true, then what these people are saying actually corroborates Wilson's side of the story.
Claiming that he was actually shot 100 feet away is just ludicrous in the extreme. First of all, that would mean that Wilson had to somehow drag Brown's body 65 back from where he fell to leave it 35 feet from the cruiser, and managed to do so without being noticed by a single person, and without leaving any trace evidence (such as the massive amount of blood that was pouring out of Brown's head from two head wounds). And if anyone here thinks that you're going to hit a man-sized target at 100 feet with a pistol, then you're just flat-out out of your mind. The best shooters in the world would be hard-pressed to pull that off under ideal circumstances, much less a chaotic, adrenaline-pumping moment of a panicked person who has just been in a physical altercation.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)"That it was Brown who, in running away and attempting to surrender, was such a significant threat that Wilson was compelled to shoot him at least five more times as Brown fled."
Although I love how "attempting to surrender" is inserted in there like it is an established fact, and not just somebody's "narrative".
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)"But the length of this investigation is unusual for St. Louis County. One grand jury in the jurisdiction's recent history has taken as long as this one has, Prosecutor's Office spokesperson Ed Magee told the Riverfront Times in September, and that was in 2000. Interestingly, that case involved a similar fact pattern, in which undercover officers shot and killed two unarmed black men. The jury voted not to indict them."
"A state grand jury led by St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCulloch voted in August 2000 not to charge the officers. "
http://www.semissourian.com/story/45291.html
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
Akira Watts failed to graduate with a B.A. in philosophy from Amherst College and now does an assortment of IT related things. He has been writing a literary choose-your-own-adventure work about the rise and fall of an avant-garde artistic collective for the past five years. He lives in Santa Fe, NM with an elderly chow-chow. Contact him at AkiraTheWatts@gmail.comThis email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. .
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)unless something comes out of the federal investigation. Nothing to see here. Move on or get tazed.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Do not expect Justice when interacting with police.
maced666
(771 posts)but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html
I can say I do not blame them one bit. Some of the responses here alone warrant keeping your mouth shut.
In fact, if they were friends - I advise they say they saw nothing rather than back Wilson's account as eye witnesses.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)
branford
(4,462 posts)with the release of the grand jury transcripts, at trial, or worse, another leak.
Will you then still dismiss their testimony if it supports Wilson's account?
Quite frankly, given the vitriol just on DU alone, no less the actual violence in Ferguson, if I were a witness, particularly if my information supported Wilson and I were black, I would never speak to the press and go out of my way to protect my anonymity for my own safety and sanity.
The problem is the piecemeal release of information, much of it unconfirmed. The simple fact is that there is much evidence and potentially many witnesses that have not been identified or released and we still don't know what happened between Brown and Wilson. Preconceived notions and social activism does not constitute evidence.
I made the mistake of listening to and believing the press and Benjamin Crump in the Zimmerman case, and suffered a rude awakening when I actually watched the trial. This time I will wait for all the evidence.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... NO IDEA the crime Wilson SHOULD be accused of and how the rest of this shit is a pure distraction
regards
me b zola
(19,053 posts)...but this lousy narrative gets repeated over and over.
Brown was trying to get away from Wilson, Wilson had him with one hand, and shot with the other. At this close range I would expect that there would be blood splatter on the weapon and on Wilson.
There was one cnn news person who attempted to bring this logic to one of the conversations, but was quickly dismissed and the conversation moved on. Logic has no place when a narrative is being jammed down the throats of the public.
The fix is in. Heartbreaking, but expected.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... it detracts from the REAL crime and that was Wilson shooting at Brown FROM THE BACK as Brown was running away..
That's federally illegal IIRC