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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBullied Teen Lands In Hospital After Being Beaten, School Presses Charges – Against Bullied Teen
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tmotola/bullied_teen_lands_hospital_after_being_beaten_school_presses_charges_against_bullied_teenAlmost six weeks after his brutal beating, while still recovering from a traumatic brain injury, Eric Martin walked into a Virginia courtroom last week to face two assault charges. Verbally abused, harassed and bullied since the first grade in an obviously failing school system, this kid is the poster child for "brave." Eric has decided to fight these charges, and fight them is exactly what our team is prepared to do. The judge has set a trial date for November 21....
Is it too much to ask that a school provide a safe and hostile-free environment for him? For any child? Is it too much to ask a school system to implement the very anti-bullying policies that have been put into place to protect him and keep him safe from poorly behaved, undisciplined and self-righteous students? Is it right for school administrations across this country to continue to turn a blind eye to what now has become a national epidemic, simply because it’s easier just to brush it under the rug?
Bullying kills our youth, and it almost killed 14-year-old Eric Martin. He is just one of thousands that are subjected to anti-gay slurs, constant scrutiny and physical abuse daily in this country.
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shenmue
(38,506 posts)
Sue the crap out of these freaks.
Response to shenmue (Reply #1)
The Magistrate This message was self-deleted by its author.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)No way should the taxpayers have to pick up the tab for the actions of these bastards, unless the government voted for by these taxpayers fails to remove them from office.
They should all individually be made to pay for this miscarriage of justice!
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)The pretrial motions will invoke qualified immunity and the suit against the individuals will be dismissed.
7962
(11,841 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Instead, they just pay a big set of fines assessed the company, and then write it off on their taxes so that the taxpayer has to pick up the tab there too! The system really is architected to protect the powerful and screw the rest of us!
ncjustice80
(948 posts)Should be able to sue the shit out of him for false arrest.
20score
(4,769 posts)what is legal and what the policy they they use as guidance is followed. Once they step outside of their authority, or are negligent in performing their duty, they are no longer protected. At least that is how it works at the federal level and most states.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)
Initech
(100,060 posts)It's a truly sad day for America when someone who stands for themselves against our horrible, violent bullying culture that they're the ones getting arrested. Got to fill those for profit prisons. 
crim son
(27,464 posts)
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)
The Magistrate
(95,244 posts)I will only say several students and school officials need badly for their karmic health to experience severe pain, for a very, very long time....
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)
, Sir!jtuck004
(15,882 posts)
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)not worthy of being saved if falling over a cliff. I say this from my own experiences with American public education.
Take those s**tbags to court!
I also encourage the Martin family to oppose the annual school budget.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Bullies prevail in sports, school, at our jobs, on TV and in movies. In basketball for example, it's not about having a good game, it's about domination. The ultimate thrill is to see your team player slam dunk with his foot in the face of a defender and get a foul called on the defender. Our country has always been the big bully on the block. It permeates our society.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)A regulated sports competition should be one appropriate place to express physical dominance - an outlet for that sort of thing.
Further, isn't it better for thousands of fans to exercise their inner 'bully' vicariously through their team's slam dunk? I always thought having the masses cheering for violence, as opposed to committing it, was one of the benefits of the nouveau Bread and Circuses. Major sports are among the new gladitorial games that help keep men tame.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)playground. And those that cant bully via sports look for other outlets to emulate their heroes. How many times across the country do we hear stories about high school football players bullying both boys and girls? And they usually get away with it.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)I'm getting the distinct impression that contemporary pro and college sports actually ENCOURAGE a mob mentality. Note that between about 1968 and the recent events in Ferguson, MO, sports were the only thing that Americans rioted about.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
Bozvotros
(785 posts)In sports we don't put the Seattle Seahawks up against the local Pee Wee Football team. But you know what they say about love and war......
We pick a small weak country no match for our military and we fuck with them until they fight back and then we use that as a reason to bomb the holy shit out of them ie Shock and Awe. And if our targets won't take the bait then we either suck them in with some trickery, like April Glaspie did with Saddam or flat out lie, like Bush and his Mushroom Clouds and Johnson's bogus Gulf of Tonkin attacks. The sports metaphor then kicks in as the crowd goes wild. "USA, USA, USA."
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts). . . how does such a well-regulated sport provide "an outlet for that sort of thing" without, on some level, glorifying -- and hence legitimizing -- it to some extent?
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)society promotes soldiers as heroes, the news leads each day with violence. Victory is glorified whether in sport or elsewhere.
A coach has a chance to develop a sense of sportsmanship. I'd rather have kids with those tendencies spending their afternoons at practice learning things from an adult than finding other ways to amuse themselves after school.
We could outlaw sports until high school graduation, but the football bullies would probably be bullies without the football. Some kids who play ball, or wrestle, or box who don't have that outlet might take more of their aggression out on the weaker ones around them in school than they might already.
There is always lifetime Thorazine for toddlers who show aggressive terndencies.
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts). . . and no doubt some actually manage to do it. But to pretend that the overriding ethic of team sports in this country is anything other than one of "win at all costs" is to delude oneself, notwithstanding an exceptional coach here or there. For example, when a university with a strong history in a given sport fires a coach after a run of bad seasons for the university's team, what kind of message does that send to players and fans about the value of sportsmanship? For that matter, what kind of message does it send when a school district will spend money lavishly on a winning high school football team, which might have a roster of 50 or 60 kids, of which only about half will see significant time on the playing field, while leaving the high school band, in which alll members participate fully, minimally funded -- what kind of message about 'sportsmanship' does that send? Or the tendency of many coaches to give most of the playing time to their star players, thus affording little opportunity for some of the lesser talents to develop their skills? Sorry, but I think the rather quaint notion of 'sportsmanshiop' you refer to is by far more the exception than the rule in this country.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)a case where the bullies are rewarded and the victim is punished. This is not a unique case. Our country is the biggest bully in the world. What an example. Hard hits are the goal in football and slam dunking in your opponents face is rewarded in basketball.
Are you familiar with the term, "Don't be such a baby?" Victims of bullying are. That's the response they get from authorities often. Our police love to bully. Instead of trying to deescalate situations, they wade in hitting, tazering and even shooting. Students are often bullied by teachers and coaches as well as other students. How often do we hear about members of the high school football team getting away with assaulting males and females. They learn that behavior. TV shows like 24 teach us that bullying is ok if you ar bullying for goodness. Well, all bullies will tell you they are bullying for goodness. "They deserved it" is the justification. Even here in DU I've seen posters get ridiculed and harassed by others that use the justification, "they deserve it."
We don't need Thorazine, we need society to stop glorifying bullying.
radicalliberal
(907 posts)-- are morally opposed to any of their players bullying nonathletic kids at their schools? The coaches equate athletic prowess with masculinity. Therefore, they believe weaker boys are inferior and therefore deserve to be bullied. There are some coaches who oppose bullying, but I'm convinced they're not the majority. Machismo reigns supreme.
radicalliberal
(907 posts)Sparhawk60
(359 posts)My son was bullied, had his head slammed repeatedly in to the side of the bus. He was was a slender 15 year old kid, bleeding from the head before he even tried to defend him self, so of course he was suspended when the vice-principle walked up.
/ his attacker was a 6 foot, 18 year old who had been held back a few years
get the red out
(13,461 posts)This is exactly how it is! The kid being bullied "deserved it" for "not fitting in"; is probably what the school administrators were thinking, not that they will admit it.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)At face value something seems amiss.
Did he assault the ones who beat him, and if so, what was the nature of the assault?
The link was rather vague.
Does anyone have a link to an article from a news agency?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"At face value something seems amiss."
What leads you to this conclusion?
linuxman
(2,337 posts)I've looked elsewhere for news on this.
It appears that the bullied kid assaulted the ones who beat him first. This fact is not in dispute by the kid facing charges.
The original article seems to downplay this aspect of the incident.
There is no provision in the law to allow assault because someone is calling you names or bullying you.
There are two possible scenarios which would "Fix" this.
1: decriminalizing assault whenever the assaulter is facing verbal insults
2: Criminalize mean words and bullying.
As it stands, he attacked some other kids who fought back. The law doesn't change because you got hurt worse than the people you were trying to hurt. It sucks, but you can't assault someone and get away with it because of bullying.
That being said, the schools have the power within their own codes of conduct and disciplinary measures to mitigate bullying. If this was known to the school beforehand and nothing was done about it, then the school should be answering for this fallout. Who's to say the next kid won't bring a gun and shoot his bullies?
MontyPow
(285 posts)bl968
(360 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:24 AM - Edit history (3)
The Military has a charge for Provoking speech or gestures. Article 117...
“Any person subject to this chapter who uses provoking or reproachful words or gestures towards any other person subject to this chapter shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused wrongfully used words or gestures toward a certain person;
(2) That the words or gestures used were provoking or reproachful; and
(3) That the person toward whom the words or gestures were used was a person subject to the code.
This was in response to another post which stated that the school could establish rules against bullying and I bought this out in response.
Needless to say that there are similarities in a school environment and a military one including a reduction in the rights given to people in those environments to allow for the preservation of good order. http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12991
So a school could likely establish a rule similar to the UCMJ's article 117 and use it against students that bully. I do not think student actions should be criminalized, instead the punishment could be handled through current in school discipline measures.
What was the kid's rank?
What other aspects of military law would be a good fit in civilian society? Sodomy regulation, perhaps?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)
Quackers
(2,256 posts)But it has no bearing on this case.
jmowreader
(50,552 posts)There are two versions of this - pre-Shrub and Shrub. (The current UCMJ has returned to the pre-Shrub Article 134.)
Pre-Shrub, Article 134 was for any offense not covered in the rest of the punitive articles that affects "good order and discipline." We used to call it the "spitting on the sidewalk article." You fucked up, we know you fucked up but you found a new and original way to fuck up...
During the Shrub years, every offense in the other articles was also in 134 - I wish I would have downloaded that manual, apparently Shrub figured he could chapter guys out easier under 134 than the real article.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)From what I could see that is not even a 'story." It was written by a friend or supporter of Eric's. It has no information on what happened.
That is not to say he is or is not guilty or innocent of whatever. BUT. so many here are just jumping and screaming without even knowing what really happened.
The issue of bullying is one thing.
The events in this incident are another.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Of course you aren't going to get the facts and only one side's story whether it's true or not. I dislike it especially when the story IS covered by a news source... why not use the actual news source rather than a blog with an obvious agenda?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and he finally snapped. the real problem is, and you mentioned, that the school allowed the bullying to go on.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)and will the bullies be facing charges?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)aka temporary insanity.
I don't know about the numbers for Virginia but although it's popularly thought to be otherwise, it's really not a very popular defense and it fails most of the time. Only 1% of cases involve defense on that basis and the success rate is slightly better than 25%.
Another option would seem to be not contesting the assault but arguing mitigating circumstances so sentencing is less harsh. But I don't know if that is possible in Virginia
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)I wondered about that. The article seems to be carefully worded, saying he fought back after being bullied. Doesn't say anyone hit him before he hit someone. So it sounds like he started the physical part of the interaction; that would put him at fault. Did he just snap because they taunted him so extremely? Sounds like a possibility, but who knows.
Still, even if he hit first, they had no business hitting him back any more than enough to defend themselves, and clearly they went way, way beyond that. They couldn't have been in much danger, because they far outnumbered him. And even if they were in danger, they could have stopped him long before beating him to a point where he lost consciousness.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)this seems to be a recurring theme in DU headlines.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)isn't there a law against defending yourself far beyond what is necessary to stop an attack? Even his throwing the first punch doesn't excuse several people from attacking him and injuring him as badly as he was injured as that level of attack and by several people wasn't in the same universe as merely defending themselves or defending another person from an attack by one punch.
I seem to recall a story from a long time ago that was something about a guy at a bar being punched by some belligerent drunk where the guy that was punched beat him so severely the belligerent drunk almost died. I recall that both were arrested but that the much more serious charges went on the guy that hit back to defend himself and went way beyond that.
I think we aren't getting a lot of the story here because the police said in another article that no info about the case would be disclosed because the kids involved were juveniles. As I mentioned in another post in this thread it's my understanding that juveniles not charged as adults are identified, charged, go to trial, and whatever the outcome is all remains sealed, so we never know who they were, whether or not they were charged, if charged what the charges were, if found guilty or not guilty, etc.
Eric Martin is 18 (I think - now I can't exactly remember what was said about his age), and if that's the case than he's a legal adult so his charges would be public. Or perhaps he and his mom/family decided on their own to make their side of the story public which is certainly their right. Either way, it does explain why Martin's side of the story is public while the other side concerning the kids that beat him won't be due to them all being juveniles.
FYI, I haven't read the rest of the thread beyond this point, so I don't know if any new information was discovered about the case. When I searched myself I was surprised to find there was precious little at all about it. Doesn't even seem to have made national news.
Sam1
(498 posts)Words that can be reasonable expected to cause a fight. However and more importantly:
Since the abuse had gone on for a long length of time was there a conspiracy to get the victim to strike the first blow and there by give the bullies the legal defense of self defense when they administered the beating. When the kid went down any rational for self defense was no longer valid. Any battery that the bullies administered after that was no longer self defense and when he became unconscious could be considered to have the intent of causing grave bodily harm. The Bullies set him up and damn near killed him and ought be charged with attempted murder. Any defense of the bullies actions can not reasonable cover the beating they administered after the kid hit the ground.
Defending ones self has to be proportional to the threat!
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)Early last month 14-year old Eric Martin (photo, above) was bullied and beaten by at least four Highland Springs High School classmates in Henrico, Virginia.
Now, police are charging Eric with two counts of assault because he supposedly threw the first punch. School officials refuse to allow him back into school until he signs a statement saying he threatened the school -- a charge he denies, and a charge for which the school has no proof.
...
Mary Martin "admits Eric threw the first punch, but she says he was a victim of bullying. She says he was constantly hit with gay slurs," NBC 12 reports. "I'm angry, and I'm hurt," Mary Martin also said. "He's got bruises all down the spine of his back where he was just slammed on that table."
...
Martin says the injuries come after Eric got fed up with alleged bullying and decided to fight back.
"He admitted it to the police officer," said Martin. "He did hit him, but he has been bullied by these children the whole time."
"They want to charge my son. They started fussing with each other. It turned into a shoving match...which turned into a hospital stay."
The school also sent an email to parents saying the incident is being dealt with according to their established policies and procedures. In this case, it seems to be the zero tolerance policy.
"So in other words the four or five boys can beat my boy to death," said Martin. "And he gets one slap in and gets charged, too? That's plain ridiculous."
Mom feels this all makes for unnecessary stress during her son's difficult recovery.
"I'm not going to walk away from this," said Martin. "I want the school held accountable."
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/hospitalized_9_days_teen_charged_with_assault_after_4
pangaia
(24,324 posts)get the red out
(13,461 posts)BUT, if that were one of my nieces, my sister and I (along with our husbands) would probably be in jail for MUCH worse at this point. I commend the victim's mother for not doing what I would surely want to do.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Gay Teen Beaten at School, Charged With Assault
Eric Martin, a gay 14 year old, has been charged with assault after reportedly being beat by several unidentified students at Highland Springs High School in Henrico, Va., on Sept. 4.
The fight left Eric in the hospital for nine days with numerous injuries (video below).
"A head injury," Eric's mother Mary told NBC 12. "A broken hand. That's not just a fight. That's a beating. That's a vicious beating."
Almost two weeks after the beating, Eric was cited with two assault charges, noted Jezebel.
Mary says her son did admit to throwing the first punch.
(snip)
Police aren't commenting because the case involves juveniles. No idea if the kids that beat him were ever identified, and with the police staying mum about the case because it involves juveniles we won't get to know. Even if the perpetrators were found, charged, tried and convicted as juveniles I still don't think we'd get to know. From what I understand, juvenile crimes are only public if the juvenile is to be tried as an adult.
I have to wonder if this kid was being bullied for years in school what was Mom doing about it? Why did she not pull him out of school or confront the school or do anything? Was she not aware of the kid being bullied all this time at school, or what?
Doesn't seem to be any national news coverage. That surprises me.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)"while his assailants were largely unharmed. If convicted, he could face jail time and fines.... "
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)were star athletes. Or the children of wealthy local families.
Those are the two usual reasons that students get away with bad behavior.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)It's a shame so little has changed since the 1970s on this kind of harassment.
Fla Dem
(23,643 posts)http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/02/1333866/-Gay-Teen-Hospitalized-Then-Charged-With-Assault-After-Being-Bullied-Beaten-By-Four-Classmates
http://www.nbc12.com/story/26671256/henrico-teen-beaten-at-school-charged-with-assault
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/gay-bashed-va-teen-charged-with-assault-after-attack-that-left-him-in-hospital-for-9-days/
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)This is twisted. Incredibly sick.
riqster
(13,986 posts)And HOW to fight back. Witnesses that would be honest, or no witnesses at all. One bully in particular was suitably repaid in kind: the rest became a hissing and a byword for getting their asses kicked by such a geek as moi.
Good on this kid for fighting back.
hunter
(38,309 posts)I quit high school for college because of this crap.
The only time I ever got "justice" in high school was when I'd verbally provoke bullies by whispering something nasty like "You want me" in front of teachers or school administration witnesses.
Yeah, I'd get beaten bloody sometimes, but the bully might get suspended and avoid making trouble with me when he came back.
My middle and high school fighting experiences did not make me a better human being.
christx30
(6,241 posts)Bullies are cowards. They won't keep doing it if you make them hurt. I was bullied relentlessly in 5th grade. I wanted to kill myself most days because the thought of going to school each day would bring me to tears. The administration was worthless, and refused to help AT ALL. I moved from the area the next year (so I wouldn't be with those kids any more) and ended up in a nicer school. One of the kids started crap with me the next year, and I was admittedly sensitive to bullying, and had a personal zero tolerance policy. So I broke his arm in retalitation. I got in trouble with the administrators, did a day in ISS, but no one messed with me at all that year.
I would encourage every bullied kid to stand up for themselves. My son complains about a bully. His teacher seperates them as much as she can, but he is still picked on. If I felt that they weren't doing enough, I would encourage him to find out how his strength can stop bullying (my son is built like an 8 year old linebacker, and the bully is decidedly not).
Mariana
(14,854 posts)The kid in this story fought back and landed in the hospital for weeks. He could have been killed or had permanent brain damage.
christx30
(6,241 posts)but not every case is like that. Sometimes you can knock a bully on his ass and he'll leave you alone.
Do you suggest not fighting back at all? Tell a teacher and hope they might do something to help? Or just accept that the bullying will continue until the kid decides to commit suicide?
riqster
(13,986 posts)Injuring the bullies and doing so in a manner that absolved me from blame and placed the onus on them was highly effective.
Once per school building did the trick. Not only did bullies not fuck with me, they left other potential victims alone in my presence, or if they were close friends of mine.
Imagine: a star football player, his knuckles bruised and cut, exhausted, the laughingstock of the entire town...suspended from the team, detention for weeks, while I was praised for not hitting back. Not true: I got my licks in, but no one saw them, and everyone saw his, heard him, and ratted him out.
Fighting back (mentally and physically) most assuredly DID solve that problem, and in a quite satisfying fashion.
True story: he and I were teamed up in a golf foursome at the 30th reunion, and he was STILL highly deferential to me.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I had this one fucker in high school, Shane Iforgethisname. He was one of those seven-foot four career tenth graders, you know the type, and he thought I was a great hilarious target. Month after a month of his shit. Then finally in en English class he decided he wanted t kick the back of my head.
I jumped on him, and choked the shit out of him while he punched me in the head. We went around the floor a bit, him bent over because he has a five-foot-four guy clutching his windpipe, me having my brain sloshing around from this ape pounding away at my skull.
It took two teachers and the assistant principal to break us up by which point I had a bloody nose and Shane could barely talk. We were taken to the principal's office and offered our choice; two week';s suspension, or "take our licks" 9i.e., getting paddled.) neither of us being insane, we opt for the board of education, and are sent back on our way to class. On our own. And the while time shane is weeping and wailing about his ass 'cause "I have very delicate skin!"
it didn't solve anything, no. Shane was still a bully and an asshole. But he decided to leave me the fuck alone, and so did his buddies ; apparently less for fear of having their larynx crumpled, and more with my apparent super power to take all those punches to the head and not be bothered. Which is something, I guess.
it got the asshole off of my back. yes, he found someone else's back to get on. Nothing really changed except who he was targeting... but at the time all i cared about was that he wasn't targeting me.
And yes, i had informed faculty of the problem. Their advice? "he wants attention. Ignore him and he'll stop."
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... as it has in untold cases.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)As a girl, I certainly didn't "fight back" against the high school boys who relentlessly, verbally abused me. A football star literally shoved me into the bleachers during PE one time, of course the Coach, ugh, I mean teacher, did nothing. This guy went on to be a star on a division 1 college football team in the fucking SEC. Yep, fight back coward.
I was also such a coward that I didn't "fight back" against the gangs of girls who constantly threatened me.
I did fight back against one, very strong, boy for constant harassment by knocking his books off his desk, and he twisted my arm behind my back, painfully, and threatened to break it. Teachers didn't care; I wasn't one of the "pretty rich girls".
The CCC
(463 posts)While I sympathize with this young man. There is no such thing as fighting words. If he throw the first punch he was clearly legally in the wrong.
kcr
(15,315 posts)No, you don't get to beat someone to the point they have a brain injury just because they threw the first punch.
dilby
(2,273 posts)If he throws a punch and the guy punches back causing him to fall and hit his head on the ground it's technically his fault for throwing the first punch. Being verbally bullied sucks but it does not justify physical violence.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)The CCC
(463 posts)Not in California there isn't.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)So.....
get the red out
(13,461 posts)The chosen ones yet again! 
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)It sends a terrible lesson to children that they cannot fight back when they are physically assaulted.
Response to bluestateguy (Reply #15)
Post removed
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)linuxman
(2,337 posts)I AM defending them.
I am defending the right of ANYONE to not be assaulted over words.
Verbal bullying/mean words are no excuse to physically harm someone.
Please submit a list of language which you feel merits a beating for the person who speaks the words.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)"Go to hell, you cock-sucking, son of a bitch."
"Suck my dick, you bully sucking piece of shit."
"What kind of sick shit comes into a thread about some guy defending himself after years of abuse and cries about one of the poor bullies getting hit?"
"You have to be a really low-life piece of shit? And how do you possibly justify a whole gang of bullies beating up the guy even if he did hit ONE of them first?"
I'm sure I could find plenty of words that would justify a fight. I've certainly never had much trouble getting into fights in the past.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)I suppose a person who would let himself be moved to physical violence over the words of another would have to be a pretty small person indeed.
"I'm sure I could find plenty of words that would justify a fight. I've certainly never had much trouble getting into fights in the past."
Over words? Jesus. We got a real internet tough-guy here.
Get over yourself.
christx30
(6,241 posts)and the child has repeatedly gone to the teachers and administrators for help, and no one will help, some might bring a gun or a knife to deal with the problem themselves.
Columbine comes to mind.
Edited to add:
http://nypost.com/2014/06/18/teen-fighting-for-life-after-brutal-schoolyard-stabbing/
When bullying goes too far, with no help from the school.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)Unless it was like the school counselor that told me I should just take it. Accept that it's happening because "violence isn't the answer". And (my personal favorite) "how would Jesus handle it?" The 38 year old me would inform her that I am not Jesus, nor am I trying to be Jesus, and I will do what I like to protect myself, and I don't need her permission or approval.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)Feel free to read back through my posts.
christx30
(6,241 posts)Bullies don't fear a school's code of conduct, or any consequences for their actions, if any. Most of my expirence has the school punishing the bullied kid for anything he does, and nothing at all against the bully. This emboldens the bully and the victim is terrified of standing up for him/herself. If it goes on long enough or is bad enough, this leads to the bullied kid either striking out, leaving school, or commiting suicide.
If I were on Eric's jury I'd vote 'not guilty' so fast your head would spin. I've been where he is. I nearly went down that path a few times. If you never have gone through it (or you caused it) you don't know how that anger builds over time, and you just want it to end.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)
liberalhistorian
(20,816 posts)Tell that to the thugs who constantly provoked him and then beat him so severely that he was hospitalized for weeks, with one of his injuries even being a traumatic brain injury, while the FOUR thugs themselves didn't suffer any real injuries. Seems to me your "no call for violence" statement should be aimed at THEM.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Physical wounds will heal, and this child will recover from them. But the mental scars he has recieved, both from the people who tormented him, and the school who would rather side with his tormenters, will remain with him for the rest of his life.
The fact that you'd rather side with the bullies who tormented this child for years is extremely disgusting.
People like you are the reason we have so many gay teens commiting suicide. No one wants to hold those who assault them accountable, they think that the world has abandoned them to the torment. And eventually, they reach a breaking point. Such a point differs for everyone. A few decide to lash out against everyone. Some decide to fight back, in hopes of ending the torment. Most end up committing suicide.
As someone who has lost a friend to this treatment, I'll put this as kindly as I can - Fuck. You.
7962
(11,841 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)You think mere words are deserving of physical assault and such physical assault is justifiable. They aren't. They aren't either legally or morally. Anyone that thinks they have some kind of right to physically assault someone just because something they said pissed you off is someone that has a very disturbing anger problem and worse a violence problem.
Anyone that has that kind of mindset doesn't belong here.
Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #127)
ieoeja This message was self-deleted by its author.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Or are you seriously suggesting that, "fuck you, asshole" does not equal "let's fight"?
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)This shows exactly what your violence problem is. You actually believe that someone saying something to you that pisses you off is a) an invitation to violently attack them, and b) that you have some kind of right to violently attack them.
YOU. DO. NOT. You do not by any legal or moral standards. You're truly bizarre belief that someone merely saying "fuck you, asshole" to you is an "invitation" to be violently attacked says all that needs to be said about you and exactly why you have gotten involved in fist fights so often. It is NOT an invitation to be violently attacked. It's merely a verbal expression using nothing but WORDS to show that for whatever reason they are angry with you. It doesn't matter whether their expression of anger toward you is justified or flat out crazy land. ALL IT IS is an expression of anger toward you using nothing but WORDS. Though some words may hurt someone's feelings especially when they're directed toward them continually WORDS are NEVER an EXCUSE to become so ANGRY by them that you physically attack the person delivering them EVEN WHEN that person has continually used those words to attempt to emotionally hurt you.
Violence is NOT an acceptable response to one's OWN ANGER. It NEVER is. Violence both legally and morally is only acceptable in defense of PHYSICAL attack on you or another and acceptable when only enough violence is used just to stop the violent attack.
Why on earth is this something that needs to be explained to you? Are you just having a personal laugh pretending to be so disturbed or are you really that far from a clue? If it's the latter then for heaven's sake bolt it into your head with solid titanium rods that you have a serious anger and violence issue that you need to address immediately before you end up in jail for assault or someone you think has "invited" you to violently attack them (What. The. Fuck.) pulls out a gun and blows your noodle into a slightly chunky puddle of highly unpleasant bits and drippings of stuff - like your brain.
Despite the bragging of people reporting that violence is the only answer to being bullied it IS. NOT., and it is nothing that anyone should ever feel proud of. The way to stop bullies that only use words and not violence in an attempt to hurt your feelings is to:
a) get away from them. If that means transferring to another school or otherwise avoiding them, so be it.
b) learn how to not allow words to hurt your feelings. Only YOU have control of your own feelings, and allowing someone's words to harm you so much that you become angry or emotionally distraught it's way passed time to bolster your own sense of self-worth AND recognize how truly pitiful someone is that tries to bully with words. And I say "tries" to because, again, the only person that has control of your feelings is YOU.
c) you have the highest intelligent brain of any living creature - USE IT. Bullies are generally not very intelligent people. Learn to show them up for what they are and why they bully in the first place using YOUR own words to the point that they struggle to grasp what you're talking about when most everyone else in earshot does, recognizes the bully is being mastered without anger or hurt feelings and laugh it off. That's all any bully deserves is laughing at them, and the one thing that makes them utterly understand that their words are having anything but the desired effect and actually making them appear foolish.
d) recognize that bullies do what they do because their own sense of self-worth is so microscopic that they NEED to bully someone to make themselves feel better about themselves. Bullies who bully in groups are the ones that have a sense of self-worth that is so woefully minuscule that they need to feed on their buddies to do it at all. They're like a herd of stupid cows that need to be pointed in the direction of where the barn door is located. They are THAT pitiful.
e) once you recognize just why bullies are so pitiful you actually do feel sorry for them. You can't be hurt by anyone's words when you feel sorry for their woefully abysmal sense of self-worth.
Stop walking around with a giant sized "Please Kick Me" sign on your back. That's exactly what you're doing believing that someone just saying "fuck you, asshole" to you has you believing that not only is it an "invitation" to physically attack them but that it's justifiable for you to physically attack them. As a matter of fact, it's YOUR anger and violent reaction to nothing more than someone saying "fuck you, asshole" that is bully behavior and FAR more than mere words. And it doesn't escape anyone's notice that someone with that hair-trigger anger and reaction of such anger that they NEED to physically attack someone is precisely what I said about bullies doing what they do because their sense of their own self-worth is so low that they NEED to act this way in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. Bad enough that people try to bully others with mere words, but to try to bully someone with violence is infinitely worse. And your out of all proportion angry reaction to someone's mere words that you believe they've "invited" your violent attack on them is the worst of bully behavior.
Oh yes, I know, you believe that you and anyone that believes and behaves as you claim is such a big man on campus Johnny football hero when it's the belief and violent reaction of your/their own uncontrollable anger that's the reason for violent attacks on anyone that rubs you/them the wrong way with mere WORDS. Your belief that this violent reaction to such meager and benign words is the poster child of Those Who Have A Sense Of Self-Worth Lower Than A Worm's Belly. How absurdly simple it is to push the buttons of such people. How unbelievably easy to manipulate such people to exhibit such anger and violent response.
For an actual adult to have such a belief and violent reaction is obscene. Act like the mature intelligent adult you believe that you are. What the hell difference does it make to you that someone says something as simple and benign as "fuck you, asshole" to you? Who the fuck are they? Who died and made them King Shit of Turd Mountain? What in heaven's name makes you even give a tiny mouse poop what the hell they think of you or anything at all? They aren't a friend, so just what is it that makes you CARE so much about what some stranger thinks of you? Cripes, do you own your own self or not? Why even give them so much as the time of day? Why waste a single brain cell to even ponder it?
Do you get it yet? The problem is YOU. YOUR sense of self-worth is so infinitesimal that it actually matters to you what someone says to and so much so that it not only manipulates your anger control to frizz out but even has you believing that they're deserving of physical violence from you. Say WHAT? Again, just who the hell are they? Nobody. Nobody of any importance to even bother noticing if you tripped over them.
If you're actually sincere in this belief you claim and not just playing some bizarre joke for your own bizarre pleasure then get off your backside this instant, go to the nearest mirror and look yourself in the eye and repeat over and over until it finally sinks in that you're a worthwhile person who doesn't give a single fart in the wind what some stranger says to you. What they think about you is not worthy of notice much less any reaction or waste of any emotional response. They don't know you, they don't care about you, therefore nothing they have to say that's legitimately inappropriate can even raise your eyebrow. Laugh at them. Whatever they might think of you is nothing but something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe.
Then print out this post, make as many copies as needed to wallpaper the house with it until you have it memorized. Embroider it on a pillow and sleep with your head on it in case you can absorb any of the information into your brain that way. Repeat it and repeat it until your tongue falls out and falls on your foot.
Now that's all the attention you'll get from me. See? It's EASY. I'm not angry. I have no desire to take a swing at you, nor have you made a single dent in my self-worth armor to get so much as the slightest rise out of me. It's like water off the back of a duck. Nothing. You just have to finally convince yourself that it matters not what some stranger thinks of you. Their mere words aren't worthy of your notice... their words are just wind. Beyond that is YOUR job. And all you need is to get to work on YOU. YOUR sense of self-worth is what is at issue. Do it before that time finally comes where you allow yourself to become so angry at some stranger's mere words that you've convinced yourself are so important to you that you think they invited you to physically attack them pulls out a gun and blows off your head which they would have a legal right to do from having been physically attacked by you. Tattoo it on your forehead: The problem is not THEM, it is YOU, and only YOU have the power to give yourself a sense of self-worth so that nothing some stranger thinks of you is anything more than the slightest of gentle breezes. Like water off the back of a duck. Something to scrape off the bottom of your shoe. Nothing. Done. Next.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's a matter of long-term, soul-grinding, verbal abuse that you cannot escape. That the people who are supposed to help you, refuse to do anything about. A period of life where your brain needs social interaction and affirmation, and all you get is isolation, hate, and abuse. It's a constant stream of acid, eroding at you. Unending pressure and vitriol that you have absolutely no way to evade or diminish.
How fortunate for you that you have no idea what it's like.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I'm betting you won't get a response, though.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Where was his mother while all these years of bullying was going on? Why wasn't she marching into the school and raising holy hell? Why did she still send her kid to that school day after day, year after year where he was being constantly bullied? Why did it take him being beaten so badly to actually DO something?
Was the school even aware of these years of bullying before this incident? If they were, why didn't the mom pull her kid out of that school, go to the media, her congressman or anyone that could do anything? She was smart enough to secretly tape the conversation between her and the school about her signing some document to allow him back in school, and smart enough to get an advocate to represent her, but wasn't smart enough to do anything BEFORE this incident?
If the mom didn't know about any of this bullying happening to her kid what's wrong with the relationship between her and her kid that he didn't go to her and tell her what was happening?
I'm just not understanding the lack of any parental support whatsoever while years of this bullying was going on.
I'm thinking back to my own childhood and teen years and there was no fear or even any uncomfortable feeling that when something bad was happening to me or a friend or an incident I witnessed about a stranger I could go straight to my parents to talk about it and more importantly get advice on what to do about it. Even now I always see the neighborhood kids coming home from school or having been out with their friends and immediately going into a rant about what some horrible person either said or did to them (even when those alleged horrible things were not so horrible at all, but kids have a way of seeing things a lot bigger and more significant than adults). I can't imagine any of those kids being bullied in even some more minor way and not loudly announcing it to their parents UNLESS they had parents they knew wouldn't be supportive of them once they told them about a particular situation.
So now I'm wondering if this kid ever said anything to his mom about the bullying because he felt that he wouldn't be supported by her and not say anything to anyone at school because of not having an adult with him to be supportive?
There has to be a reason why mom didn't do anything about the bullying before the incident. Either she knew about it and wasn't supportive or she didn't know about it because he didn't think she would be supportive and never said anything to her or anyone else.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Virtually every state's stalking laws effectively cover what bullying is and in most cases stalking is a felony.
So the kid was defending himself from kids that were in the process of committing an ongoing violent felony against him.
Fla Dem
(23,643 posts)taking the first swing when your bring ganged up on should be legal as well.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)It is sad that the bullied comes to the place where he/she either strikes back or commits suicide.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)run by youth with disabilities (we get bullied, too 
) in collaboration with LGBT youth (and of course, there's some overlap).
http://www.yodisabledproud.org/organize/own-my-power.php
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Even though the district has rules regarding bullying, still the admins continue to not take the bullying seriously, alot of lip service not enough positive action.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)solution to this problem.
bl968
(360 posts)School Systems have an absolute duty to provide a safe and hostile-free environment for the kids there. Once they are informed of a problem that makes their environment unsafe and/or hostile they should be obligated to ensuring that it stops, up to the expulsion of the children responsible. If they do not do so the school system and the officials responsible should both become personally liable.
When I was a kid I was getting abused every day on the bus and one time had enough and snapped. After I got off the bus the bully followed me off intending to keep abusing me, and I beat the shit out of him (no injuries) cussing up a blue streak, and he never tried that again. It does help when you win the fight.
That being said kids should have the right to proportionately protect themselves against both physical and mental violence if the school systems fail to take action.
knownow
(53 posts)because I was the victim of two gay bushings, the school administration told my mother that i was the cause, i did not finish high school because of
this.
And welcome to DU.
knownow
(53 posts)I was told this, I believed it for a while. I don't now. Thank you for the welcome.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts) knownow
(53 posts)It's superb to be welcomed
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)some sort of bizarre right of passage. Thankfully, neither my school or my parents did. I did know that most of the kids' parents didn't think much of bullying even when their kid came home with a fat lip or black eye. Fathers tended to say things like, "well did you hit him back" or "why didn't you hit him back" or "next time hit him back". Parents tended to believe that "oh, it's just kids being kids" or "kids fight all the time" or "hitting is just something kids do". A lot of violent bullying occurred right at home between siblings while the parents just sat their oblivious that Johnny was bashing his little brother Billy nearly bloody with his Tonka toy truck.
knownow
(53 posts)She would wait until late then pin me under my sheet and punch me, my mom finally believe me later. We are eight years and eleven months apart.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)He was never violent though. He'd just do stupid things just to annoy me to the point where I'd cry and then torment me further by telling me I was being such a baby and a whiner, etc. Stupid things like changing the channel on the tv if I seemed interested in a program or just standing in front of it so I couldn't see it, hand me something and pull it away when I reached for it... stuff like that. It was the frustration of not being able to do anything about it that drove me mad. Even now it's frustration of not being able to do anything about something that's the one thing that really makes my cry.
Then suddenly he just stopped. Maybe because I'd gotten old enough to the point of learning how to feign indifference so it wasn't fun for him anymore, or maybe it's just that he matured finally and lost interest. I don't know. Maybe both.
Funny thing about it though is that he was the one brother that for some reason it's always been important for me to impress, and the one that I still feel that I need him to understand just "me". I have no idea why that is. He has certain character traits that I really envy much more so than the others.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)And he ended up commiting suicide over things.
I'd moved before this happened, but I'd seen what he had to put up with before that.
Another friend ended up getting suspended after attacking another student over comments he'd heard him make.
Edit - It made the local news, though I don't think I'd be able to find the article about it. It was a small write up since the school wanted to try and keep things quiet.
I'm still learning to deal with life at 49, every day is a gift, humor helps.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Land of bigoted rednecks. Virginia.... don't miss living there. Hope this kid survives long enough to escape as well.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)and she is most assuredly not a bigoted redneck. (Of course, she is from Connecticut originally. 
)
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Out there. It is a red red red area.
Wella
(1,827 posts)Let's not assume before we know. To assume any race or other did this is prejudice.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Didn't make it less bigoted towards those kids who were perceived as gay.
Wella
(1,827 posts)I think the real problem is these "zero tolerance" policies without regard for context. It's clear that this poor kid was brutalized over time and he finally had had enough. The fact that the school is going after him because he threw the "first punch" in such a longstanding battle is ludicrous.
Wella
(1,827 posts)It seems to be very economically disadvantaged school.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)If this is happening to him in school, I don't want to think what will happen to him in prison, even the kid version of prison.
jeepers
(314 posts)Eric got in one weak punch and then four teens proceeded to slam the poor kid beyond all reason.
Perhaps Eric should be found guilty for throwing the first punch, but then certainly three of the four should
be charged with attempted murder with premeditation.
There is no way these four were not baiting Eric and planning on hurting him. Do you want to bet that the words kill that kid weren't used?
eridani
(51,907 posts)sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)with that go fund me thing. So just who is Tammy Graham Motola? She's not related to the victim nor a friend or a neighbor or even living in the same state. Her FB is hardly used and picked up in September when the incident happened. She isn't a non profit organization taking up this cause. Who knows where the money collected will go or if she even has a legal obligation to do anything but pocket it. There's no real personal info about her on FB except that she at times lives in Florida and has traveled extensively. She's looking for $100,000 to cover medical and legal expenses? A lawyer would take that on a contingency fee and medical should be covered (and would be included in the law suit). Who knows if her identity is for real and not some fake fat Bulgarian with a beard and a scam. Or maybe she may just want to do more traveling.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Highland Springs High School student is now officially facing assault charges after being brutally attacked at school. Eric spent nine days in the hospital after a fight at Highland Springs High School left him with a long list of injuries.
"A head injury," noted Eric's mother Mary Martin. "A broken hand. That's not just a fight. That's a beating. That's a vicious beating."
Henrico Police are now slapping Eric with a summons to appear in court on two assault charges.
"I was speechless," said Martin.
Mom admits Eric threw the first punch, but she says he was a victim of bullying. She says he was constantly hit with gay slurs. The Martins are fighting back with the help of family advocate Tammy Motola.
"It's always the perpetrators that get away with the crime," said Motola. "When the victims have finally had enough, after being verbally attacked and bullied for years and they snap...they are the ones that are penalized."
Eric was initially prevented from coming back to any Henrico school until he signed a student threat documentation form over allegations he threatened the school.
The school system has refused to comment, but Eric's mother has cell phone audio of a meeting with school leaders.
"That's the document, and unfortunately we are not going to be able to move forward with the variance until we have that," said a school administrator to Martin.
"Did you all hear Eric say it?" Martin asked. "Because that's hearsay."
"It is," replied the administrator. "But we have to complete documentation."
"I'm not signing anything," said Martin.
NBC 12 was there as Motola and Martin made a court visit for possible legal action of their own.
"I feel like we have to set the tone," said Motola. "We are not going to be bullied."
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)I've just seen one too many scams to trust anything on the net at face value.
undergroundpanther
(11,925 posts)Why Im disabled. It,went on from first grade to highschool and it still causes me issues with tr iggers.my life was ruined by all the assholes around me.I never had a chance to do the things people do growing up like learning to drive.Because of assholes and so many turning a blind eye I grew up in the fucking mental hospital. If only someone had stood up,gave a shit,listened to me,I wonder what my life could have been? I hope this kid does not end up wondering what could have been in his life. Bullies are robbers of others sanity and lives.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)
just disgusting beyond belief. 
moriah
(8,311 posts).... right then, on the playground. I decided I was not going to show fear, but I was also not going to hit back.
I took two punches, and after each mocked her for not being able to hit me like she meant it. After the second punch, I said "You fight like a girl!"
I received a suspension along with the girl who had actually struck me, despite not fighting back.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She and her friends picked on me in junior high school. I'm by no means aggressive, but she took it too far and hit me. I laid her out cold. None of them messed with me after that, and my mom went to the school and explained how she had been bullying me.
It's not right, it's not kind and it isn't polite. But sticking up for yourself isn't any worse than a bully that keeps going on and on and on to make your life miserable.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... that I planned to beat the snot out of her if she hit a third time. 
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Showing fear is exactly the wrong way to handle a bully.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's easier to ignore or even tacitly endorse the abuse of one child, than to make the active effort to discipline six or seven. After all,that one kid's used to it and probably won't tell his parents that you're letting it happen (since he probably doesn't tell them what's going on i nthe first place) while the others are loud, aggressive, entitled shits, and you'll have to deal with all sorts of phone calls, hearings, and god-knows-what if you dare do anything.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)Getting emotional about the law rarely changes the facts and outcome.
What I want to know is, where are the defenders for this kid? Bunch of alleged bigots, fuckwits the lot of them. Where, where is the guy, bigger than the rest, raised right, who stands up for him so he doesn't feel the need to do this? Or, in the absence of the anti-bigot goon, where is the group of kids who does the same?
The anti-bully bully...where are you?
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)to take back our local institutions, police, schools, etc from right wing extremists. There is discretion in the law, charges did not have to be filed.
These charges are about the police and school systems fight for the right to punish and torture kids who are "different".
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Most people don't seem to comprehend how destructive not running for these lesser offices can be. They mold the coming generation with their bias, political views, and economic intentions as pushed by ALEC. You are the first person I've read who gets it. Thanks.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)
blackspade
(10,056 posts)The victim is the aggressor, the aggressor is the victim...
get the red out
(13,461 posts)So many people say "if you fight back against bullies, they will back down"; doesn't look like it.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... is that he apparently hit one guy and four jumped him. That cannot be legal or right, the guy he hit has a right to defend himself perhaps but he doesn't have to take a gang beating over it.
Standing up to bullies has its limits for sure, you can't stand up to four of them at once.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)You are basically saying he deserved what he got for not taking the bullying anymore. Yet soooooo many people say that the victims are to blame for not standing up to the bullies.
Which way should we blame the victims here, I'm confused, should we blame the victims in multiple ways or choose one? What is the best and most proper way to blame the victims? Should we have a national debate on the most effective way to blame the victims or leave choice on how to blame the victim methods up to individual school systems?
This story raises so many unanswered questions.
sendero
(28,552 posts)....I was bullied all through middle school. I found out by accident really, that the person bullying me was actually a tender flower. He never messed with me again.
I hope the kids parents can get lawyers to go after every one of these kids AND the school.
And I totally believe in standing up to bullies, but maybe not when they are with 3 friends. It's a matter of practical reality, not of what is right.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)I was a coward, I did not stand up to them. None of them were tender flowers at all, narcissists and sociopaths mostly.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... how many of them ARE tender flowers. the very reason a lot of these guys ARE bullies is that they know they are.
In my case, a dude that had been tormenting me for 2 years got sent to the office with me when I fought back and we were caught by a teacher.
He immediately started blubbering about how we had to make up a good story or we were going to get licks. I could not believe I had been taking crap from someone afraid of a couple a school licks. We took our licks and he never bothered my again.
Bullying is certainly a complex issue with different kinds of actors. So everyone has to decide for themselves what they are going to do. But it is almost a given, if you do nothing the bullying will continue. It serves a psychological need of the bully and he is not going to just give it up.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)I am female and was even physically abused by boys (not in a date situation, I was considered ugly and un-dateable in high school, which is why I was despised).
These are things I don't forget, unfortunately. I don't forget the gangs of threatening girls either, but in a different way.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... I'm sure that changes things. It takes a real man to bully a female. I'm sorry for everyone who goes through that, folks that haven't can't possibly understand what it is like.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)I can think of four types of bullies.
Type 1 : What? Me? A bully?
This guy doesn't even realize he's bullying you. He thinks it is all in good fun. Hit him, and he'll express surprise. He might think you're a wimp for "taking it badly". But he will stop.
Type 2 : Looking for a fight.
Obviously, fighting this guy is just going to get you a fight. On the other hand, as the one good line from an otherwise bad movie goes, "the pain goes away and chicks dig scars." Did I mention I'm ignoring the gender issue at this moment? Fight this bully, and you make a friend. Maybe not one you wanted....
Type 3 : I know that you are, but what am I?
This is the cowardly bully that everyone thinks of when they tell you to fight back. This bully has often been bullied himself. Now it's his turn. He'll bully anyone who lets him get away with it. And run away from anyone who doesn't.
Type 4 : Too pathetic even for a street gang. But very, very dangerous.
This is the type the kid in the OP clearly encountered. This guy either runs in a gang, or carries a weapon. And he's looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Fight back against him, and you've given him the legal justification to hurt you. The reason I call him too pathetic for a street gang is that he is apparently too afraid of the law to act without that legal justification. Given that most people join a gang out of fear in the first place, being too pathetic for a gang is about as low you as you get.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)there was a group of bullies that were torturing kids. I was working on an adolescent psych unit and my daughters friends were showing up after suicide attempts Since I was the manager of that unit the social worker and I offered to talk to the teachers and kids about this outbreak and the school said they didn't have a problem with suicides.
Anyway my daughter told me about the bullies. They pushed her down a flight of stairs and one guy tried to shove her in front of a car. I did all the rational parent things and I snapped when nothing stopped the bullying. So I told my daughter that if she was assaulted to call the police and come home. I was sick of dealing with the school. I did not want my daughter to grow up feeling someone could assault her and she had no recourse. And my husband and I had a talk with the ringleaders parents. We told them we would press charges and relentlessly hound their son until he eventually wound up in jail. We also told them if my daughter much as tripped and fell down even if there son was nowhere near her we would hunt him down and they would never see him again. I know we sounded nuts but I told them we would take care of him if the police didn't. The bullying stopped.
So funny thing years later tough guy had joined the military and came back to town after going awol because he couldn't handle it. So I told my daughter you want to get even with him? So we called the MP's and they came and snatched him up. It was kinda sweet.
So yes I threatened a kid but my daughter was not going to learn that she should shut up and be a victim and I wanted her to know her momma would stand up for her.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)kid's parents been through all of this?
Yes, schools have the responsibility to deal with bullies and bullying during school hours.
And if they don't, it would seem to me that parents would/should do literally anything they can to make sure that they do deal with the problem, and that includes contacting school department officials, and even the news media for some well-deserved shaming of the school/teachers/administrators who will not address the problem.
So unless the parents fought with the school like tigers and still got nowhere, I sort of hold them responsible, in a way, for what happened to their son.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)The US really is a nation that has many bullies, sociopaths and control freaks, and many in positions of power and authority they should be nowhere near.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Bullies, like other abusers, may not be the brightest light on the tree, but they have a dead-accurate radar that tells them who can be safely abused and when. Chances are, these particular bullies are star varsity athletes or kids with rich parents who were confident that that the school administration would back them to the hilt, even when a group of them beat one geeky kid to within in inch of his life.
The kids throwing punches weren't the only bullies here.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hoping a hide will take this to admin review for homophobia.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
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Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)I went to the article, the one with his picture but it only said Virginia. Where in Virginia ?
defacto7
(13,485 posts)either they just take it and end up with psychological issues, (sometimes not but the data isn't in)
or they commit suicide,
or... they fight back.
Still bullying words are not considered harmful enough by society to be "the first punch" although bullying words can be worse than physical attacks.
Could civil rights play in this?
Unfortunately, the first physical punch or a premeditated assault, which ever side claims it, will be legally at fault. That's how I see it.
LiberalArkie
(15,709 posts)I was in the 8th grade. I was the tall skinny lanky dork kid. Some of the jocks grabbed me and stripped me naked and pushed me into the girls dressing room. The girls kicked me an punched me and worst of all SCREAMED. I think i am partially deaf from that rather than rock and roll. Guess who got suspended for a week.
But I won. I am 66, I don't think any of the jocks made it to 50. I guess they didn't eat right or exercise or something. I know it isn't the right thing to do or feel, but I did smile when I read the obit a few years ago on the last one.
JanMichael
(24,881 posts)
The Wizard
(12,541 posts)have to be fired and prosecuted.
JanMichael
(24,881 posts)Sometimes people get so close to you uttering foul things and looking like they are ready to kill you that one human response (when cornered) is to attack to defend against a real perceived threat. The other is to do nothing which mostly works sometimes doesn't but is usually successful in avoiding physical violence.
I have been in very few fights in my life. I have been close to them on many occasions but have usually talked/walked my way to a non-interesting finale where nothing happens. Or run like hell when that made sense. That has always worked.
But I could fight even though I was small for my grade all the way through 12th. On the five occasions that I remember I was literally attacked by a bully and had to defend myself; once even in the library of my elementary school when I was in 2nd grade. In all instances it ended in someone pulling us apart. The one thing I never did (not once) was end up on my back with someone on top. I did on two memorable occasions find myself on top of the bigger bully (once in the snow) and that was nice.
The worst was in 8th grade when a 9th grader took it upon himself to try to terrorize me non stop all year. He was at least 3" taller than I which is a lot in junior high. It finally reached a point when he said something vulgar to me (about me) in front of a group of kids and I said something to the effect of "please leave me alone" - that only made him say more to which I must have uttered some sort of insult that got his attention. Oh then it was on. I was told to meet outside 5 minutes after school on the (no shit) grassy knoll. If not they (a group now) would kick my ass in school every day forever and ever always with hearts. It was a sincere threat so I said fine.
One of my slightly crazier friends said he would walk out with me which was nice. After school we walked out (me with an instrument case - I was in the band too) and across the street to the hill and the bully had 5 or 7 friends cheering his skanky ass on. I was terrified.
It was over so fast that it is hard to recall what happened. He kept pointing at a big ring on his hand and saying how it would hurt me when he hit me with that hand; just talking and talking. He then sort of ran at me with his hand raised and made a wild swing which missed by a foot or more. He then ran into me full speed (still swinging) and I managed to grab him by the waist and spun him down with me on top then hit/slapped him several times until I was dragged off by my friend.
Then what? A melee? Nope. My friend and I just started walking away (with instrument case - tre cool) and got up on top of the next knoll and what happened? A fucking cop said "stop" over his loudspeaker and told us to come back. Got questioned and parents were called; then got to walk home which would never happen today.
Brass tacks? I was blamed equally for the fight which still pisses me off today. Fortunately the principal didn't care about the incident. It didn't hurt that they (the bully's parents) had come to my house with the bully to meet with me and my parents. My father was a big dude (smart though) and said something to the effect of "your kid a grade above mine and 30lbs heavier. My kid had told me about your kid picking on him for weeks before this; it was making him sick and scared to go to school. Nobody got hurt. Let's call it even ok? Oh and he doesn't say jack to my kid again, ok?". He never spoke to me again.
Needless to say I did end up wrestling varsity for one season in 10th grade only because I could make the second lowest weight and could stay on my feet. The other guy who was actually good broke his arm in practice and since I was friends with a JV wrestler they asked me to come in and get beat up on purpose. I did ok but was 2 years younger that most of my opponents. I didn't even really need to shave and they were sporting goatees and stashes (it was 1984). I did win and draw a few matches (no forfeits) which was more than expected since I had never done it before and it was a 4A school.
It is possible to stay out of fights in most all cases. But the big myth that all bullies are cowards is bullshit. Some, maybe most, are sadistic fucks that end up criminals like that bastard that kidnapped Abigail Hernandez last year. He was a sick bully and was not a coward. Just the opposite. He was a jerk and happy with that.
Bullies are bullies plain and simple. Some may be "cowards" but the ones that I dealt with were mostly big mean kids from affluent families that liked terrorizing people for fun.
If you ave a kid get them in Judo or Karate. Both teach defense and how to avoid conflict. But if they have no choice they can defend themselves.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)Nowadays it seems almost routine to push bullied kids into martial arts.
How does that work out for the ones with really lousy coordination?
Bullies can learn martial arts too, most likely they will be better at it
since they generally are more athletic to begin with.
It sure does seem like today's bullies are doing a lot more damage.
Paula Sims
(877 posts)I was horribly bullied back in the 70's in Jr. High, less so in the 80's in High School. That was pretty much the reaction I got -- "man up and don't have such a thin skin". .. Oh yea, I'm a girl. . . My parents, being Eastern European immigrants, didn't want me reporting it for fear of "the police". I really had no one on my side so I had to deal with it the best I could.
Administrators back then didn't want to be bothered with such trivial issues and frankly, I'm glad that we didn't have access to guns. No, I doubt I'd shoot anyone but I did daydream of meeting my tormentors and beating the )(#@$ out of them.
It's often the victims that are tormented again and why they're hesitant to report things. It doesn't matter -- bullying, rape, incest -- it's all a crime of power, and the one that needs the help and power, the victim, gets it the least.
Sadly, with as much attention as we have today on bullying and such, it's just lip service. At least back then they had the decency to say to my face that they didn't care. . .
JanMichael
(24,881 posts)At least that is a stone that can be stepped over and other avenues looked at.
Kind of like if the T-baggers said "we hate blacks, women, gays, etcetera" at least it would be honest and open and not underhanded and dishonest.
If a parent simply said "I don't care" that would save a child a lifetime of wondering.
eridani
(51,907 posts)http://www.gofundme.com/justiceforeric
One of the charges against Eric Martin, and the most serious, was dropped yesterday in court as the Honorable Judge Herman believed he was not the aggressor in the altercation! She did find him guilty of assault as she explained by his own admission, he in fact threw a chair. However, she went on to say that if Eric completed 7 anger management classes over a period of 6 months she would drop that charge also!!! This judge saw through it all and believed Eric. Eight witnesses were called against him and in the end the absolute truth came out.
The judge was disappointed with both sides saying they each could have handled things differently. She said the case made her sad.
The other student charged with aggravated assault that delivered the final blow that dropped Eric to the floor was found "Guilty."
Victory for Eric Martin and the beginning of a battle ahead! Thank you all for the love and continued support! It has made a difference. We have truly been inspired and continue to be motivated to create the change that is needed to protect our children that are bullied daily.
A very special thank you goes out to our passionate, aggressive, adviser/ attorney Mrs. Charlotte Hodges, who has done and continues to do an outstanding job!