Schools Eliminating Halloween?

[mia]

EWINGTON -- Anna Reynolds and Ruth Chaffee elementary schools canceled traditional Halloween parades and parties earlier this month because of concerns that they exclude children whose families don't celebrate the holiday..

"We want to make sure we're inclusive of all kids," Anna Reynolds Principal Jeremy Visone said. "The best way to do that was not to celebrate the holiday."

The decision angered many parents, who accused the schools of political correctness run amok and caving to a small minority at the expense of their children's fun. They blasted letters sent to them saying the schools will replace the events with "fall- or harvest-themed" celebrations.

"If a few people are offended because of religion, I completely understand their viewpoint," said Karen Petersen, who said her first-grade daughter is disappointed she won't be able to wear her costume to Ruth Chaffee. "To me, it didn't make sense to punish the rest of the students for a few students who don't celebrate the holiday."

http://www.courant.com/community/newington/hc-newington-no-halloween-20141022-story.html


I have always loved Halloween and enjoyed a "Harvest Festival" at my grandchildren's public school this evening. All of the children were in full costume and played Halloween themed games.

[shenmue]

1. Yeah

It always sucks when the local hyper-religious cranky-pantses get a hold of the school.

[Wella]

2. According to the article in the OP, it's not the religious who are doing it; it's about inclusivenes

Read the OP.

Edited to add quote from the article:

http://www.courant.com/community/newington/hc-newington-no-halloween-20141022-story.html

"Crouse said parents objected for religious or other reasons."

...John Paterson School Principal Michael Gaydos said that a previous principal ended the school's Halloween parade four to six years ago because of concerns over obesity, safety and kids being left out.

"There were a good chunk of kids that were getting sent down to the office or into the media center," Gaydos said. "In public schools, it's tough to exclude kids. I totally get it from that perspective."

[Nye Bevan]

6. How does Halloween exclude the obese?

[Wella]

16. Seriously, if you have a child prone to weight gain, Halloween can be a nightmare

The main objection in my kids' school to Halloween and other celebrations with candy, cupcakes, etc. is from mothers concerned about health issues.

[Crunchy Frog]

27. Candy and sweets don't have to be the main focus of a Halloween celebration.

They could employ healthy snacks and non-food items, and shift the focus to costumes, decorations, and games.

No need for it to be unhealthy. Change the focus of the celebration, don't eliminate it.

[Wella]

94. I think that's true, but most of the time, Halloween IS about sweets

I wonder if there are other schools who do Halloween without candy or sweets. I haven't seen it.

[TeamPooka]

131. Tell that to the Hershey and Mars Corporations.

[Trekologer]

43. Everything in moderation

If you cancel Halloween and other celebrations (and with it access to treats) the result will be that when the kids do have access to the treats, they'll binge on them because of the allure of the "forbidden fruit".

[Wella]

95. If you're a kid with a weight issue, a food allergy, or ADD/ADHD and are on a special diet, there's

no such thing as moderation in these cases. I agree for many kids, moderation is a good principle. But, for a diabetic kid, there is no moderate sweet.

[pnwmom]

101. At my kids' school Halloween had nothing to do with candy. It was all about the costumes.

The kids paraded around the school in their costumes and then came back to their classrooms for a short classroom party.

Are you against classroom parties, too?

[Wella]

106. A lot depends on the school and how they handle holidays.

Traditionally, Halloween is centered around sweets, and, in elementary school, many holidays are an excuse to bring in cupcakes, candy, etc. It can be a huge problem if you have a young child who can't have sweets.

And quite frankly, not everybody does celebrate Halloween. If you're a devout Christian who believes Halloween is Satanic (or at least pagan), you might not want the school reinforcing it. I understand that most Christians don't see it this way. It's a small group on the fringe that tends to have that issue. However, the number of potentially gay children in a classroom may also be very small (2-3%) and we cater to them with all kinds of tolerance training and inclusiveness. Why leave children with a particular religious background or with particular health issues out? We need to teach tolerance for ALL.

[pnwmom]

110. There's nothing religious about the way any school I've seen celebrates this dress-up party.

If someone takes it that way, that's their problem. And if they have a problem with the food being served, they should send food for their child. That's what I did with a child who couldn't eat gluten. I didn't try to stop everyone else from enjoying theirs.

We cater to potentially gay children in elementary school? Are you kidding? The existence of gay people is barely recognized in most elementary and middle schools across the country. And it's not because no one has gay parents or other relatives.

We had 7th Day Adventists at our school, and they don't celebrate ANY holidays, including birthdays, but they don't try to stop the school from having parties. Neither should the anti-Halloween people.

[Wella]

125. Wow. Just wow.

Your way or the highway, eh?

No matter what is happening to you at your school, other areas of the country have different challenges. I can understand schools trying to be inclusive and avoid school activities that could exclude certain children. Why are you a Democrat at all if you can't understand inclusiveness?

[Travis_0004]

133. I responded to the wrong post

Edited

[Travis_0004]

135. Results of Jury service

I thought it was a dumb alert, and it looks like common sense prevailed.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:55 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Wow. Just wow.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5712534

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Over the top in questioning why they are a Democrat, and claiming they can't understand inclusiveness.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Oct 25, 2014, 06:15 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: nah
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Over the top? Seriously? This is the tames post I've read all week.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a clumsy attempted appeal to a shared value - more "in your face" than I'd like, but not hide-worthy
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sigh... The small and narrow mindedness on constant display, here, is breath taking.

Thank you very much for participating in our

[pnwmom]

142. Because this isn't about inclusiveness. Everyone is invited to dress-up and go to the party.

There is no reason a gluten-sensitive child, like mine; or a diabetic child, like yours, can't attend.

If someone chooses to EXCLUDE her child, that's her choice.

[Adrahil]

44. Ya know, it's possible to celebrate halloween without stuffing kids full of candy... NT

[Wella]

107. But many teachers don't abide by this.

They bring in sweets that some children may not be allowed to have.

[Adrahil]

136. The deal with THAT issue instead of canceling the whole thing.

I mean, it's ridiculous. If the problem is the candy, deal with the candy. But that's not what's driving this, and it never has been.

[snooper2]

87. sounds like those mothers are the issue if they are relying on schools for parenting

[Wella]

96. They're not. They're trying to prevent the school from interefering with parenting

If I have a kid on a special diet, the last thing I want is for the school to come in and offer them a lot of sweets. These parents ARE parenting--the ones who aren't couldn't care less.

[Crunchy Frog]

132. Are you going to end birthday celebrations at school too?

The exact same issues pertain to those.

My kids can't have most birthday treats that would be brought in because they're gluten free. We maintain a supply of gluten free cupcakes for them for those events. We would never try to demand that the school not celebrate birthdays. Do you think that we should, especially since Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays? Where do you draw the line?

[moriah]

146. One night of sweets is not responsible for childhood obesity.

Even in adult dieting, most experts recommend a "cheat day" once a week so the person doesn't get demotivated and bored on the diet.

It can actually help boost metabolism by giving a person who is on a diet a chance to eat a little more and get rid of any "starvation mode" setting hte body might be in. Nutrisystem recommends INCREASING calorie intake when you hit a weight loss plateau, not decreasing it.

(Edit: this being said by a person who is 117 lbs ligher than her heaviest weight and is now in the normal range, thanks to Nutrisystem).

[LanternWaste]

90. No more and no less than Thanksgiving excludes the hungry.

No more and no less than Thanksgiving excludes the hungry.

[mia]

9. The schools don't exclude any children from the parade.

Their parents do.

[alp227]

13. Obesity?

How could that be? A kid not being able to find a fitting costume or being on a diet?

[Wella]

20. No, many young children are either obese or prone to weight gain

We have a generation of children who sit around, do not go out and play, and who have poor diets. Sometimes their parents cannot help any of these things.

Suppose you have a child prone to weight gain and you are trying to keep him healthy. You limit his refined sugars at home and make sure he carries his lunch, but what happens when the school starts putting out the candy and cupcakes? You're at work and you can't monitor what he's eating. This is what happens for many kids and their parents would simply rather not have the extra temptation during the school day. This is becoming more common now.

[Dorian Gray]

50. That's a part of life

Many parents at my daughter's schools are health conscious and are concerned about snacks. The kids each have a snack day that they are responsible for. We bring in healthy snacks (fruit and some whole wheat bread or cheese and multigrain crackers...)

But on birthdays, kids tend to bring in a special treat. Cupcakes or cookies.

It's life.

If you oppose sweets for your kid, talk to your kid. My daughter won't touch candy because she doesn't like it. (I'm not opposed to it. She just hates candy. And she's 4.) I've had talks to her about soda and that it's unhealthy. (Not seltzer. Just coke and ginger ale.) She's allowed ginger ale if she needs to take medicine (it's our treat.) But at four, she actually understands that cola is bad for her and doesn't want any part of it.

But if she were to have candy or something at school as a special treat, eh! it's life.

(Now allergies are a different matter. And there is a child in her classroom with severe nut allergies. I make sure anything i provide for the class was made in a nutfree facility, and I'm happy to do so.)

[Wella]

97. Good for you that your kid doesn't like candy. But

if a kid with an eating disorder/obesity is supposed to be following a special diet, the fact that the teacher offers sweets to the kid interferes with the child's health. That's just wrong.

[phil89]

82. Food and candy aren't going anywhere

society is obsessed with both. It's more harmful to try to set an example of changing the external world than it is to teach moderation and how to deal with urges to eat too much. Lazy parents who think canceling out a few days of candy are going to make an overall difference just aren't thinking critically.

[Wella]

98. But you don't need to drag it into the classroom

That's all I am saying.

[Scootaloo]

126. How many pounds do you gain from two rolls of smartees?

There are some legitimate concerns, about children with diabetes and various allergies. But honestly? Obesity? Some candy one day out of the year isn't going to make a kid obese. A twelve-pack of pepsi and farting around while playing call of Duty all dy every day makes a kid obese.

[Wella]

129. How many kids stop at 2 rolls of smartees? How many classrooms do?

If your child has a weight issue, a diabetes issue, or is on any kind of special diet, then, yes, 1 candy bar can really screw things up.

[Scootaloo]

130. Yes, but this does not cause obesity

Seriously, you can cram an entire sack of hersheys kisses down your throat in one day, followed with a boat full of grandma's turkey gravey. You won't gain any weight, except for the matter you've ingested itself.

But if you do it every day? Then it starts adding up.

One day with some candy isn't going to cause obesity. And it's not the issue in the article anyway.

[pnwmom]

35. You could make that argument about any school activity, including team sports.

This is just ridiculous.

[Wella]

99. Why is it ridiculous? It is wrong to exclude children on the basis of race, sex, creed or ability

that's the law. And its basis is inclusiveness.

[pnwmom]

100. Halloween is just a dress-up game. It doesn't exclude children anymore than

team sports or any other school activity.

You don't need to believe in anything or belong to any race, creed, etc. to play dress-up.

[Wella]

105. No, Halloween is an old pagan holiday that is now about eating candy

Some Christians and some people with food issues will of needs be excluded.

[pnwmom]

111. It doesn't matter what it was several hundred years ago. Now it's a big dress-up party.

And if a party with food is involved then people with food issues, like my child with gluten sensitivity, can bring their own substitutes -- not try to ban the whole party. Problem solved.

[Wella]

112. It matters to some people, maybe not to you. Not everything is the way you perceive it.

It's easy to "solve" problems when you have no idea what other people feel like.

[pnwmom]

114. I know what it's like not to be able to eat the food other people can eat.

And I know the solution: bring my own. Not stop the party for everyone else -- that's just selfish.

I want my child with the same food issue I have to feel she can handle things -- not that the world has to revolve around her. So I don't think a diabetic child should be able to stop a party anymore than I think my gluten sensitive child should be able to. They both have to learn to live in a world where other people don't have to live with their restrictions. That's life, and they might as well figure out now.

[Generic Other]

102. So a kid in a wheelchair should be able to insist there be no sports at his school

by your reasoning.

"Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut.

Me and my family and friends are celebrating Halloween. No one is excluding you. Halloween celebrations are a longstanding tradition in this country. Opt out if you don't want to participate.

Quit expecting everyone else to alter their lives so you aren't inconvenienced.

[Wella]

113. Or sports accessible to him in his wheelchair.

Some activities for the differently abled need to exist at school.

[Generic Other]

119. So you believe they should offer alternatives to Halloween after all

for the kids whose parents can't control everyone else's fun rather than an outright ban to prevent other people from celebrating an activity you don't approve of.

[Wella]

123. I actually believe that all students need to be included in school activities

I myself have no issue with Halloween, other than the food issue. If the school could have a costume party on Halloween without sweets (or with fruit), then no problem. However, I do believe in inclusiveness. We no longer have religious Christmas carols in public schools because they leave out other faiths. That's a good thing. So, why are we forcing an old pagan holiday that some find offensive on certain kinds of Christians? I believe in inclusiveness, especially when it comes to children. It's the only way to really make all children feel welcome and like they belong.

[pnwmom]

143. Then why not send diabetic-safe sweets for your child to eat? The stores are full of them.

Your child has to learn how to deal with the fact that s/he has a dietary restriction that most children don't have,just like mine had to learn to avoid gluten in a world that is full of it.

[mia]

8. I agree with you.

I teach in a school where Halloween is the H word. We have a storybook character parade instead. Parents get around the other parents who are religious fanatics by sending their kids to the parade all dressed up as witches, ghosts, etc... while carrying a books about their characters. Parents also dress up their kids in religious garb and have them carry a bible.

[Wella]

21. That I haven't seen. I have seen people objecting for dietary reasons.

Perhaps different parts of the country have different kinds of objections.

[KittyWampus]

25. I can just imagine… witches, warlocks, vampires, ghosts…. and Noah. I bet none of the religious

kids would have the guts to be Jesus. What would happen if a girl decided to guise as Jesus.

OY!

[JustAnotherGen]

55. You just gave me an idea

Of how I'm going to dress my husband for Halloween this year! Thanks!

[Scootaloo]

127. Dude, the Old Testament prophets are fucking SCARY

[Iggo]

60. Now that's my kind of proxy war!

[LibDemAlways]

3. Kids love Halloween. I've never heard of

a school mandating that every student must come that day in costume. It's always been an optional thing. If parents don't want their children to participate, that's certainly their right. If there are a significant number of non-participants, perhaps the school could arrange an alternate activity so that no one is simply left out. However, I think cancelling Halloween activities is unfair to the majority of kids, particularly elementary age students who look forward to being a ninja turtle or princess for the day. It is, indeed, political correctness on steroids to deny the little ones their Halloween fun.

[TorchTheWitch]

56. I'm horrified by this - I LOVE Halloween

Even at my ridiculously older than a child age I STILL start planning a costume sometime during the summer. I don't miss kids coming to my door for trick or treating, but I LOVE seeing the local kids dressed in costumes on their way to parades or parties and taking pictures of them, and of COURSE, dressing up myself. I LOVE walking the dog all over the place admiring peoples' ingenious house/yard decorations (even more than at Christmas time) and have a strict rule for him to not pee on or eat anyone's hard work in decorating (he still hates the giant inflatable Eagles football player though, but it's not a Halloween decoration, so it doesn't really count).

Missing out on Halloween festivities as an older adult just horrifies me. I'm still devastated all these years later about the Halloween party I missed when I was in my first year of high school because of having gotten the flu. My friends stopped by after the party all dressed up in their costumes having obviously enjoyed themselves enormously to cheer up my fevered coughing self yet it made me so ENVIOUS I ended up being pissed off that they did since it smacked so much of rubbing it in. I still feel like I should get an extra Halloween because of missing out that year.

And I still feel like we should have Halloween several times a year - once a year isn't nearly enough, and I don't give a flying poop about the candy (I actually don't want the candy anyway and even as a kid gave most of mine away except for the fun stuff like candy necklaces or those disgusting little dots on reams of paper or the beloved candy cigarettes). I can't even imagine how much more it would be horrifying for me as a kid when I'm already horrified at the thought of missing out on Halloween festivities as an older adult! GAH! I'm going to have nightmares now about Halloween being entirely canceled!

[LibDemAlways]

69. My daughter attends UC Santa Barbara and Halloween

there is a multi-night legendary event that attracts young people for miles around -so much so that police take all sorts of measures to try to limit the crowds. Everyone is in costume and even the school chancellor joins in. You'd love it.

[TorchTheWitch]

78. OMG! I'm hyperventilating at just the thought!

I may even have just soiled myself.

Truthfully though, I've never liked crowds. Actually terrified of crowds. I'd rather drive half way to China than sit through a single block of a traffic jam or I'll get panicky. I've had panic issues my whole life, and even with medication there's some things that make me feel faint just at the thought, and crowds might be the biggest one. I can't even look at videos of crowds of people at a concert on on a subway or a big protest or whatever without hear palpitations and an extreme need to run away. Being a small person also probably has a lot to do with my crowd hysteria issue... it's so much of a trapped feeling that makes a small dark closet seem like an oasis.

I just got re-hired at a dump of a club I worked at a few years ago, and with this month's schedule already being full up unless someone should conveniently drop dead before their Halloween party so I can work in their place it's not looking like I'll be working that night. But I've already decided to go anyway just to be at the party. I'm not kidding, I actually have an entire closet stuffed with nothing but awesome Halloween costumes. OMG, when I first moved here I used the MASTER BEDROOM for my Halloween costumes and all the accompanying props...

This is a funny picture of my old dog, Boo, when he was a puppy who fell asleep on top of the enormous Mr. Big Bear after becoming pooped out trying to kill him. Except for a few pieces of exercise equipment all that stuff (except for Mr. Big Bear of course) is some overflow of Halloween costume stuff that didn't all fit in the HALF of the room that was behind me when I took the photo...

[Crunchy Frog]

4. Thank Dog that hasn't yet impacted my sons' school.

Went to a big Halloween party there tonight. It was absolutely packed, and my sons both wore their fairy costumes.

[Art_from_Ark]

32. My elementary school never had a Halloween Party

Our Halloween event consisted of watching a single-frame projector show of graveyard denizens dancing to the eerie sounds of Saint-Saens' Danse Macabre

[scarystuffyo]

5. This is the result of thinking it's a right not to be offended

This was years in the making

[Trekologer]

46. The over-protection bubble is getting a little out of hand

One of the nearby towns, it is mandatory that the parents drop off and pick up at school OR they ride the bus. No walking to/from school at all, even if you live next to it.

[Nye Bevan]

7. More stupid nonsense in the name of political correctness (nt)

[alp227]

14. Do you think a kid is going to be scarred for life/improperly influenced,

if holidays are watered down/excluded at school?

[Nye Bevan]

15. No (nt)

[alp227]

17. So why do you disagree with the school's decision? nt

[Nye Bevan]

19. Because it's stupid nonsense in the name of political correctness. (nt)

[Wella]

22. Actually a good deal of it is dietary

The article actually mentions that. Kids with food allergies, obesity issues, and ADD/ADHD (who may be sensitive to sugar) are all an issue when the school decides to serve sugary snacks. Kids who can't partake feel left out and might eat something harmful to themselves anyway just to belong.

[Crunchy Frog]

28. You can have a Halloween celebration without sugary snacks. n/t

[Adrahil]

45. Oh c'mon... This isn't about candy.

You can celebrate halloween without loads of Candy. My daughter's school did.

[kysrsoze]

73. They have these new things called pretzels, apples, goldfish, etc.

[snooper2]

88. I ate a goldfish once, they are kind of slimy at first

[DonCoquixote]

40. if it is done

by a bunch of people tryign to mix their religion and poltical clout, yes, because the kids will learn the people in the big rich churches get to call the shots.

[RandySF]

68. +1

[Politicalboi]

10. I hope christmas is going to be treated the same

Not ALL kids celebrate christmas, so let's not have that holiday either. No more Thanksgiving Day Parade either. It's christmas based and the taxpayers shouldn't have to flip the bill. It's ALL about religion. So let's just eliminate all celebrations, I'm good with that. New Years Eve would be the exception. Everyone can celebrate that.

[Nye Bevan]

12. Wait..... Thanksgiving is "Christmas based"?

I thought it was more about celebrating the early harmony between the Pilgrims and the Indians, neither of which celebrated Christmas IIRC.

[alp227]

18. Lol. Maybe because of commercialization, Thanksgiving BECAME Christmas-based.

Thank holiday sales promotions for that.

[merrily]

30. I was taught that the first Thanksgiving was about thanking God for having survived that year

in the harsh New England climate and for the harvest of food.

It was not Christmas based, but it was religion-based.

[A HERETIC I AM]

36. "Foot the bill"

"Flip the bill" is an eggcorn.

[treestar]

64. Just celebrate them at home

Why does school have to have anything to do with it?

[Adrahil]

77. It doesn't.... BUT...

Kids spend a lot of time there and they interact with their friends there. I know growing up that a little seasonal accent was part of the fun. My elementary school and middle school ran Halloween carnivals (complete with a haunted house) where we donated the proceeds to charity. It was terrific fun, and we raised a couple hundred bucks for families in need.

The area I grew up in was VERY conservative, and no churches got their noses bent out of shape over it. Heck, a friend's father, who was a local BAPTIST preacher, played Dracula in the Haunted House!

My daughter's elementary school held costume parades and classroom parties. No one seemed to get offended really, and her Middle School is about to put on a Halloween Concert (the kids are encouraged to perform in a costume).

I get wanting to keep religious themes out of school (being an atheist myself), but Halloween, Christmas, and even Easter have a lot of secular elements to them that are just fun.

[Glassunion]

145. Sure we could all celebrade New Years...

But on what date?

January 1st?
First new moon after the winter solstice?
February 18th'ish?
March 14th?
March 20/21?
April 1st?
April 14th?
April 15th?
June 22nd?
November 1st'ish?

[RandySF]

11. My kid goes to a religious school and they're having a party tomorrow

and Halloween parade next Friday. Some people and schools are too uptight.

[merrily]

31. You seem to be ignoring the bits about food/nutrition. Besides, a private

school is an entirely different matter from a public school.

And you're saying because the religion of your kids' school doesn't object to Halloween, no religion should. Why is that?

[kysrsoze]

75. Like Randy said, "Some people and schools are too uptight."

He's saying a lot of people in this world need to get a grip. It is possible to provide healthy snacks, provide alternate activities, etc., rather than eliminating the one event the vast majority of kids in this country live for.

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Our son's elementary school cancelled Halloween festivities a few years back

Because some fundy Christian families wouldn't send their kids to school that day if they went on, I was told.

Right-wing radio picked it up, and I got to hear a panoply of screaming heads use the airwaves to tell everyone in America about the crazy Liberals in Newton MA who cancelled Halloween. I don't think they realized it was because of the fundys. Nor did they realize that our evening Halloween activities are epic; many houses give out candy for the kids and adult beverages for the adults. For some reason, there's a lot of alcohol involved in raising a child here.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. The five year old birthday parties around here are pretty liquored up affairs. n/t

[Marrah_G]

84. When I was a kid in Walpole we had my friends grandmother who owned a huge old house...

And every Halloween they would open the house as a rest stop for the trick o treaters. There was always a fire in the huge fireplace and hot cider and old fashioned donuts... I believe the adults cider bowl was spiked with spiced rum.

Ahhhh wonderful memories. Everyone was so happy.

[roody]

24. I teach first grade, and I say Fuck Halloween.

[demwing]

38. what the hell

what is your issue?

[roody]

117. I have a great idea for school.

Let's learn to read, write, and manipulate numbers!!

[demwing]

120. You're right, Halloween will destroy education as we know it

The very foundation of society is at stake

[liberal_at_heart]

124. As a first grade teacher surely you know that for small children especially playing is how they

learn.

[Adrahil]

48. I bet you're fun at parties!

Or is the parties that you don't like?

[kysrsoze]

74. Those poor students of yours...

[roody]

115. Don't worry. They adore me.

They love the all you can eat quality ice cream parties I give them once a month, on whatever day I feel like.

[demwing]

121. No No, Fuck Ice cream

Let's learn to read, write, and manipulate numbers!!

[Codeine]

137. So a dairy party once a month is fantastic

but a holiday once a year is bad?

One hopes you make more sense whilst teaching.

[roody]

144. Why are we a nation of sheep?

If a teacher says Fuck Halloween, and I feel the same about all your other commercial ventures called "Holidays", she must be a rotten teacher. There is one answer to "What happened to critical thinking?" At least my kids can make up their own minds about what is important, although I do my best to indoctrinate them to believe that being kind and thinking of others, and reading is important. This post deserves its own thread.

[Marrah_G]

85. Why?

[roody]

116. Fortunately, at my school, we don't do costume parties.

At my other schools: junk food orgies, stupid store-bought costumes, (the Indian one won best costume) giant distraction from reading, writing, and manipulating numbers.

[Marrah_G]

118. But isn't fun and imagination also important?

[demwing]

122. No no, Fuck fun and imagination

Let's learn to read, write, and manipulate numbers!!

[roody]

139. To be inclusive, the PTA buys a blank

mask for each student, grades 1-5. Each class decides what their theme is. The kids paint and decorate them. Some are traditional Day of the Dead Mexican masks. My class does animals. A third grade class always does historic figures. On Halloween we have the March of the Masks. We don't call it Halloween. We leave that for families to do what they like to do. We have fun and use imagination every day. We don't need an appointed day for it. And the commercialization of appointed days ruins imagination. If we allowed costumes, they would all be cheap shit from China.

[Codeine]

138. Wait, an all you can eat ice cream party

isn't a junk food orgy? Hmm.

[roody]

140. My students are mostly poor. I feed them

real ice cream, with sugar, not corn syrup. Natural flavors. It is a junk food orgy without lots of little wrappers and trans fats. They deserve to know quality. We also use real plates and spoons which I get to wash. They also have to sit and be waited on. I am the waitress who clears the dishes. They learn a lot. They say "Si por favor" or "No gracias" when I walk around with a flavor and scoop for seconds, thirds, etc. They don't walk around eating. I save the cartons. We study the ingredients. We make graphs of our favorite flavors. I like to make my junk food orgies count for something. We don't create garbage.

[snooper2]

89. how do you fuck a holiday, are holidays into foreplay?

I guess that would be like New Years Eve, Xmas Eve?

[azmom]

109. LOL

[Mister Nightowl]

26. Great

The only damn holiday worth celebrating and they wanna ban it

[Tree-Hugger]

33. There was a big uproar here last year

In the Philly suburbs, a school stopped it's annual Halloween parade and classroom parties because of a Jehovah's Witness family. I think that family tried to ban it district-wide. Orange and black wasn't allowed, either. It ended up making National news. The principal of one school as well as the whole district got a ton of flack for the decision - and rightly so. Halloween - parades and classroom parties - are back on at that school this year.

I went to Catholic school. Halloween was fine and dandy - we wore costumes and got candy.

[Niceguy1]

71. what boring people!!!

Im glad its back. Instead of candy this year im sending my kids to school with cupcakes., she loves the class party

[merrily]

34. For many of us, Hallowe'en became or has been disassociated from All Hallows Evening, both as it is

a Catholic event and as it is a pagan event. However, its is a religious holiday.

If it's not okay for a public school to bring crucifixes or nativity scenes into the school, why are the symbols of a pagan religion or All Saints' Day fine?

And then, there are the food issues as well, from sugar content to allergies to vegans (though they could certainly serve apple slices to most kids--no law says it has to be candy).

Even Thanksgiving is religious in origin. According to the story, the Pilgrims were thanking God for having survived the harsh winter and for the harvest.

So, I think you have to decide if the SCOTUS was correct in its public school and religion decisions back in the 1950s or not. But, what really is not okay for government is to say this one religiously related celebration (be it paganism or Catholicism) is okay in public schools, but none of the others are.

IMO, the whole issue is FUBAR when the SCOTUS decides things like presents and Santa (aka Saint Nicholas) are secular symbols, which balance out a nativity scene and dilute its religious nature.

[demwing]

37. So let them cancel Christmas. Not everyone celebrates THAT holiday

yeah...that'll happen

[demwing]

39. Let's ban MLK Jr day

he was a Christian preacher, and made civil rights a moral issue for the church.

Therefor, MLK Day is a Christian holiday.

[TBF]

41. Oh they'd easily ban that one. nt

[treestar]

65. Not a good analogy

Because he was a Christian preacher did not make civil rights a Christian thing. In fact today's fundies oppose that. He simply happened to be a preacher. Could have done the same thing had he been a lawyer, etc.

[TBF]

42. Down here the schools and churches

do trunk or treat. In the schools they will let kids come in costume if they are dressed like a storybook character.

But I've noticed that all the box stores in the area have the Christmas displays started already. I have a feeling Christmas is taking over the entire fall (with a big push from the fundies).

[Trekologer]

47. Don't you know it is their right to be constantly surrounded by reminders of their religion?

I guess they are so insecure about it that it needs to be in their face (and yours) at all times. And if you object to them forcing their religion onto you, you're oppressing them.

[TBF]

49. You bet I know -

that is why I isolate myself a good share of the time. I was not born in the south and living here is like being in a foreign country. I nod, smile, try to appreciate what I can about the culture (the BBQ is good for example), and spend lots of time looking at travel books to figure out where we might be able to retire (NOT Texas).

[maryellen99]

62. people who complain about Halloween being evil

They are also the ones who are super offended when they claim they can't say "Merry Christmas".

[demwing]

52. There's big money in Christmas

less in Halloween, and hardly a bump in Thanksgiving, which is why Black Friday was invented.

The lengthening of Christmas is about fund$, not fundies.

[TBF]

57. Ah, that makes even more sense.

[Ilsa]

51. The Harvest festivals I've attended included costumes

for everyone. Parents dressing up was greatly appreciated.

Personally, I like the costumes of Dumbledore and Gandalf. They both deliver some excellent, moral lines, and are easily quoted.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. Seriously? In what large city do the people celebrate a 'Harvest Festival'?

Nobody outside of rural America still celebrates the 'harvest' coming in. Having one in a city is simply an excuse to indulge in 'seasonal products' like apple cider donuts. Heck, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person in my neighbourhood who actually grew pumpkins this year, but I see lots of pumpkins out there on doorsteps.

I'm sure that there are people who don't celebrate every single holiday out there. Should we thus cancel all school holidays?

[TBF]

58. Houston -

although they usually use the phrase "fall festival" down here. Churches, schools, cities (they'll invite in businesses and set up a "festival" in the park, etc ...).

I think they actually officially "celebrate" fewer holidays down here - we don't get all the Monday holidays like we did in Washington DC when we lived there. But we do get a full week for Thanksgiving and Good Friday off - so I guess it's the same number of days just taken differently.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

59. Oh, large cities have plenty of 'festivals',

I'm just pointing out that they really have no real tie to 'harvests' in non-farming communities and the era of fresh fruit in supermarkets 365 days a year. They just want an excuse to have a fun day off.

[gollygee]

54. Our school is eliminating Halloween this year

They're doing harvest themed stuff. It'll still be fun. I see this as a choice the school can make without micromanaging.

[mia]

93. I agree with you. Especially when there is an evening festival.

Parents can choose not to participate instead of seeking to censor traditional celebrations that others enjoy.

[ReRe]

61. Let's put it this way...

I'll give up Halloween if they will give up Christmas.

I don't know why evangelicals can't stay to themselves. I don't try to cram my beliefs/nonbeliefs down their throats. Why is it OK for them to do it to me or anyone else who doesn't take kindly to what they espouse? If they don't want their children to celebrate Halloween, then keep them at home. Don't blame everyone else for their limiting religious beliefs! I was raised in an evangelical church when I was a kid, but Halloween was one day of the year that Momma would not give up. Us kids went trick-or-treating every year. We cut out cats and bats and moons out of construction paper and taped them to the windows. There wasn't a year that passed that we didn't each carve a pumpkin jack-o-lantern.

If I had kids in that school, I'd start looking right now for another school for them to go to next fall. Even if it meant having to relocate the entire family.

[treestar]

63. I don't have a big problem with it

Celebrate it when the kids get home. School does not have to do it.

[tammywammy]

66. Back in the late 80s/early 90s when I was in elementary school we didn't celebrate Halloween

I remember going to a fall festival a few times. They also didn't allow Halloween costumes. Instead around the same time they had a day where we could dress up as our favorite literary character.

[LWolf]

67. How misleading.

1. Schools can't "eliminate" Halloween.

2. Schools are not obligated to celebrate holidays; that's not their function.

3. Public schools are there to serve the needs of all students, whether they are allowed to celebrate various commercial or religious holidays or not, and make no mistake,

4. Halloween is a commercial holiday.

5. This article is about inclusiveness, which IS an obligation of public education.

6. "Harvest festivals" are not commercial holidays, are not, and don't have to be, linked to Halloween, and are often celebrated at schools as an inclusive seasonal festival that can integrate all subjects learned.

7. One of the things that SHOULD be taught in health class is how deadly sugar is. THAT's a Halloween related lesson that would certainly fit a "current event."

8. As a teacher who has, in years gone by, had to spend all day in a classroom with 30+ over-sugared, costumed, over-stimulated children trying to focus on the actual learning that was SUPPOSED to be happening until the afternoon "celebration," I was thrilled when I moved to a state/district/school that had the PTA hold an after-school through evening festival, removing Halloween from my professional day, and leaving it up to parents whether or not their child would attend without missing actual school days.

9. As a teacher who, before the move, planned an actual seasonal festival for my class INSTEAD of the Halloween party etc. when I had students who couldn't participate, I remember being inundated by other teachers who dumped their kids who couldn't "do" Halloween on me, overwhelming my space and resources.

10. I also remember how much fun my students had with their harvest festival throughout the day; all while still learning, without excluding any students who had the right to a public education on that day.

[cyberswede]

70. Our school just provides an alternative activity for those who don't celebrate Halloween.

Easy peasy.

[frazzled]

72. We had this issue 25 years ago in my kids' elementary school

For us, a large part of it was that we had a significant community of Hmong students, whose families did not understand the holiday and/or who were frightened about the idea of costumes. It's a different culture. Then there were the odd families who opposed it on religious grounds.

So the annual "Halloween parade," in which kids came to school in their costumes and marched down the halls, could become problematic each year.

Here's what we decided to do: we had information sessions for the Hmong parents to explain the holiday and its customs (couldn't send home notes about it, since theirs was a culture with no written language and thus they were illiterate), and to provide help with costumes for those who wanted their kids to participate. And if my memory serves me, the rules were no masks allowed at school. Hiding faces was I believe the biggest problem.

For those opposed on religious or other grounds, who didn't want their kids to participate, an alternative activity was provided in the cafeteria.

We do have to be culturally sensitive while still supporting fun activities in a non-religious, nonpartisan way. I remember what it felt like to have to sing religious Christmas carols at school, in chorus, when I was not a Christian. I felt very uncomfortable singing "Christ our saviour is born!"--but I was also scared that I would be chastised or singled out if I didn't. So I'd mouth the words but not sing them aloud! That shouldn't have to happen to children.

[Adrahil]

79. Wanted to talk about the last bit.

I am an atheist, and we're bringing up our daughter that way. But we live is a very homogeneous, very Christian community. It's mostly not nutty Christians though, more what I refer to as "cultural Christians." There is one nut church in town that tries to get trick or treating banned every year (and fails), but other than that, it's not bad. My daughter refrains from saying "under God" when reciting the pledge, and she did express some discomfort with playing Christmas carols. I pointed out to her that we still put up a Christmas tree, and we even play Christmas carols of a religious nature without actually buying into their truth. I just tell her that we celebrate Christmas as a cultural custom, much in the same way we celebrate Halloween without actually believing we're chasing away evil spirits. She seemed to get it, and now happily plays Christmas tunes without feeling like she has to hide her atheist identity, which has mostly not been a problem (except fro earlier this year when a couple of mean girls were calling her "Devil Girl." The principal nipped that in the bud.)

[frazzled]

81. Well, in my case

we didn't celebrate Christmas as a cultural custom. We didn't celebrate it at all because we were Jewish (though we were happy to be surrounded by the secular aspects of the holiday that occurred on tv or in the department store windows). So when I didn't want to sing those words, it was because I was actually afraid they were sacrilegious and that something bad might happen to me. So Frosty the Snowman and even Deck the Halls and all that felt safe and fun, even if foreign to my family and its culture, but the religious stuff was scary to a young child. (And I didn't say "under God" either! I remember being unsure as to "what" god they were talking about, and feared it might be the wrong one.)

I think Halloween is even more of a secular holiday than Christmas, having lost all connection to an "All Saints Day" imo. But I do respect people's right to disagree with that, no matter how crazy, and think schools should make appropriate accommodations.

Public life is getting more and more difficult, with more and more separatist demands and divisions. And I regret that. I always accepted being a minority in a majority society and still am a believer in assimilation: finding common cultural ground and sharing in the culture of a common society. That seems much harder today, where the political, religious, ethnic, and racial divides seem even more strongly delineated.

Thank heavens for Thanksgiving ... which I think is a holiday we can all share in, each according to their needs and traditions of course, for all religions and no matter where you came from, vegetarians and omnivores alike. It's the one time a year I actually feel like there is some unifying moment, spent around a festive table, where we can all call ourselves Americans. Perhaps I'm deluded.

[treestar]

92. Reasonable response

It does not have to be either/or

[Kelvin Mace]

76. When I hear "harvest festive"

I think "The Wicker Man"

[Generic Other]

108. One of my favorite films

The old version! Awesome.

[Scootaloo]

128. The new version is pretty hilarious, in its way

The screenwriter is clearly working out some... issues, and usign nic Cage as proxy. it's gloriously redonkulous.

I always thought Lord Summerisle was one of the weakest of Christopher Lee's roles, honestly. But Willow's song? Probably one of the sexiest pieces of cinema I've seen.

[lunasun]

80. They will have plenty of fattening foods at harvest fest .this is about religion, kids staying home

[Marrah_G]

83. It is a holy day for me- one of our four major ones

I look forward to it every year.

I get to give out candy to happy kids dressed up in funny costumes and then I head of to celebrate Samhain.

It's also a wonderful way to meet the neighbors and say hello!

[justiceischeap]

86. In our house we have a yearly Dumb Supper on Samhain

It's the hot ticket for the local Pagan community and people are always vying for any extra spots. I get to go cause I'm the "roommate". I'm like the Covens mascot.

[Marrah_G]

91. Yes- I enjoy the supper too

For those who don't know what that is- Samhain is when we believe the veil between this world and the spirit world is the thinnest. It is the night that we honor those who have crossed over the past year. We eat in silence with extra place settings so they may join us.

[Louisiana1976]

103. The apartment house where I live is having a "Harvest" festival this coming Wednesday. There's

going to be a costume contest and Halloween-themed games. It may be a harvest festival but it's still Halloween to me.

[Generic Other]

104. I am anti-war

Let's ban Veteran's Day.

[Stellar]

134. I don't like costumes that have blood and gore exhibited.

That to me is scary, and I don't like being frightened. And I'm not into scary movies either. I know, I'm just down right pitiful. (my sons always made fun of me because of that.)

[Baitball Blogger]

141. Um, I know quite a few people don't celebrate Christmas...

Just saying...

[moriah]

147. I'm reminded of this episode from South Park about Christmas....

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x195fi8_south-park-s01e09-mr-hankey-the-christmas-poo_fun