Tonight my own daughter broke my heart. On Facebook she announced that she is not voting.

[ancianita]

I can't believe I'm reading such a public announcement from my 35 year-old, lifelong Democratic voting daughter!

My daughter:

I have been proud to engage in the electoral process since I was old enough to do so and have participated (in many actively and avidly) in every election I've ever been registered for. In the past two years (since I last voted) I have realized that EVERY political contender on the ballot has already been bought by "big $$$"...so why bother? Democrat or Republican identifiers (and the realization that the concepts of dichotomy and "zero-sum game" are effectively false) and "ideals" are NOT enough when, once in office, none actually represent "constituent" interests...only "big $$$" interests.

For the first time in my adult life, I refuse to vote. I will continue to refuse as long as dichotomous options are all that are available to vote for. Until then, I will believe this concept of American "democracy" is merely a false amelioration of the masses.

On the spur of the moment I felt that I had no choice but to make a public appeal to her, although talking about voting publicly with a family member is a pretty awkward thing to do on Facebook. Even her little brother popped up in support of "ground level progressivism."

I felt that I'd failed, and that she's become someone I can only be tolerant of and courteous toward, but can't respect. I don't want to feel that way, but dammit, I do.

Me:

You're right about the money, the reality. But there is a larger moral issue at stake. To disengage from a process others used to fight and die for a chance to do is regressive, not progressive.

Your reasoning is valid. It's just not sound. Vote because you can. Because Gramma Jean, you, I and all the women and girls we know, know how hard it's been for our half, and because G needs a good example of someone making effort for other voters, if not for moneyed interests or representation.

We know the deal. Even if your heart's not in it.
Vote anyway. Like every little thing has consequences we can't see, voting is a good thing that you do.

Questions: Could I have said or done something else? Has anybody else experienced this?

I hope this isn't a trend elsewhere. Maybe I'm just tired right now, but I'm also feeling like I'm losing my children to the disengaged youth stereotype. UGH.

[JI7]

1. who are her candidates ?

[ancianita]

13. Good point! It's an angle I hadn't thought of in spite of my past statements to that effect here

that we need to chill a little more until candidacies are declared.

[jwirr]

79. Where do you live? There are a lot of areas that are neck and neck and need her vote. I do not for

a minute believe that ALL our elected officials are bought and paid for. But then I am from MN. We have a few very visible rw candidates but most of our candidates are strongly Democratic.

[Yupster]

93. Good grief - your daughter broke your heart by not voting?

I was afraid she was arrested for beating up and robbing an 80 year old woman, or she went back on meth and had her kids taken away from her.

If the biggest problem she has is she's too frustrated to vote one time, say a prayer and consider yourself luckier than you deserve to be.

Put things in perspective and don't mention voting to her again for a pretty long while.

Talk about your grandkids, her job, vacations and outings you two can do together.

Time flies, whether you're having fun or not.

[demwing]

190. Sensitivity

you're doing it wrong...

[NYC_SKP]

2. If her problem is what she says it is, then she should vote for a third party candidate.

If one objects to the two party system and the status quo, then not voting is a vote to perpetuate that very system.

It doesn't make sense, maybe you can explain that to her.

[liberal_at_heart]

6. +1

[Cha]

10. Or Just Write it IN!.. Just Vote for all the Women and Blacks who got the Right to Vote for Us..

Maybe not you..

[NYC_SKP]

11. I like that approach, too. Write in who you think should have been running.

But staying out of it altogether just doesn't make sense.

[Cha]

24. Precisely.. been thinking about this a lot..

[Travis_0004]

62. how is that any better?

I can understand a vote for a 3rd party, but what good does writing in a bunch of people who are not running. That to me just seems like a waste of time.

[NYC_SKP]

89. Well, where there might not be a third party candidate, for example.

Or where that candidate is KKK or something awful.

It might be a combination of third party and a few write ins, but I know what you mean, I don't believe they bother to count write-ins so it would be a waste to do that across the entire ballot.

[JHB]

91. It's not wasted time if it reminds them that numbers matter.

It's not a waste of time if it gets them into the voting booth to vote for ALL of the offices up for election, not just the high-level ones being "protested".

It's not wasted time if you prove that you and others like you have a track record of going to the polls reliably, and can be counted on to show up and vote if someone starts actively trying to attract yours.

[ancianita]

14. Thank you. I'll be sure to do just that.

[RKP5637]

106. +++ 1,0000 +++ n/t

[uppityperson]

3. It is a sad state of affairs when you must advise "if you can't voter FOR someone, you can vote

AGAINST someone else". If you can find 1 reason to vote for someone or against someone else, it is better than not voting at all and giving your power away. If you still can not vote, then run for an office and change the system. Ignoring it will not make it better in any way.

[ProfessorGAC]

61. I See That A Lot Here

But, i get the sense (maybe i infer too much) that this is based upon some romantic notion that it wasn't always so.

Folks have been voting against what they don't like for a REALLY long time. About as long as people have been voting.

Look at the first Jackson election. His opponent was nobody that anybody really wanted. Folks in the east largely voted against the "hillbilly" from out west. And that was almost 200 years ago.

The state of affairs, imo, has nothing to do with whether people are motivated to vote by being "against the other guy".

[uppityperson]

130. I helped get Reagan in by voting for John Anderson back when I was an idealistic youth voter

Looking back, I am not sure why I didn't vote for Carter except I wanted to back a third party and thought it might happen since Carter and Reagan were so far apart. I have rarely gotten to vote FOR someone, mostly against someone.

I have my defining criteria of how they treat women, in the odd case there is nothing else but that doesn't often happen.

[sabbat hunter]

151. even if

all John Anderson voters voted for Carter, Reagan still would have won easily.

It was not like 2000 when those votes cast for Nader in florida could have swung the vote to Gore.

[liberal_at_heart]

4. Finding a way to get money out of politics could be just as big as fighting for the right to vote.

We no longer have a democracy. We have an oligarchy or some would even call it a banana republic. Our politicians cater to the 1% while we have to deal with stagnant wages, busted unions, and sky rocketing cost of living. They know they can do anything they want because people will vote for them regardless and there is no accountability. Maybe if they have to sweat it out a little more we will start to see more willing to stand up for campaign reform. We will never get our democracy back until we get money out of politics.

[LeftyMom]

5. Wait, 35 is "disengaged youth"???

This is the best thread ever. Bless you.

LM, age 33

[ancianita]

15. Heh heh! Yeah. Guess I'm that old.

[liberal_at_heart]

22. I am in my late thirties and have become disillusioned as well. I wonder if the mid to late thirties

is the average age of disillusionment with government. Personally, I am researching each candidate's voting record. If they voted for issues that are important to me then they get my vote. If not then they don't. After 20 years of voting straight democrat without doing any research at all, I am now a more informed and active voter and it makes me feel good when I cast my vote.

[redruddyred]

46. I'm in my 20s

and I think the whole system sucks, but I sure don't want to see any republicans in office.

tho I might be more tolerant if their leadership didn't leave such a sour taste in my mouth. some of the more moderate ones seem to be quite genuine in their beliefs.

but, no, trickle down doesn't work.

[taught_me_patience]

7. Reap what you sow

that's how it goes. She should realize that some candidates are worse than others.

[Cha]

8. Your response is heartfelt, ancianita..I know how this must be for you. If either of my kids would

do that I would feel the same. I don't have to tell you all the reasons to vote even if one's heart is not in it.

Freaking FASCIST SCOTUS is Numero Uno.

[ancianita]

16. Your support is much appreciated, Cha. Man, I know I'm tired when I forget to bring THAT one up!

[Cha]

25. Manana!

[seabeyond]

9. supreme court. as a woman, for all the daughters, the supreme court. it is that simple for me.

i will be voting from here on out for all those young girls that have to live in this society.

(not as much a supreme crt issue this election, but the state laws are important too. that is where the attack is coming from)

and in that, not both parties are the same.

[ancianita]

17. Sea, I can't believe I forgot to bring that up. I'll get back to her on this immediately.

Her total silence about my response is the only thing I fear.

It's not because we're not otherwise getting along. We're due for a trip together soon, which wouldn't be happening except by her choice to join me.

[seabeyond]

20. she made the declaration. and she probably knows where you sit, lol. like starting an OP

your daughter broke your heart, lol. hey... put it out there. and then let it go. hopefully she will do what is needed. but ultimately, it is hers, and you love her anyway.

and darnit, gonna enjoy that trip with her.

[ancianita]

27. Man, I don't know...I never thought our relationship would come to be like this...

Now I hardly recognize her or anything I had to do with who she is. I guess that's how time brings distance between parents and kids.

Thank you for your encouragement.

[Dorian Gray]

63. Because of this one post?

I understand politics are important and you feel passionate about this topic, but she is your daughter, and her welfare and your relationship should always come first. Ideals are great, but the reality is that ideals are there because we have a vision for a greater community in which our loved ones will live. I think it's important to listen to your daughter. Really listen. It's okay to debate/argue, but to lose respect for her?

I disagree with many family and friends in my life regarding politics/religion/and other hot button issues. But I will always love them and respect them, even if I think they are wrong.

[shraby]

12. Tell her that she is going to have to live by the rules they make. She can help put the ones

in who will make rules she is comfortable with, or opt out of voting. She might as well have a say in what the rules are.
She can deny it, but there IS a difference in the rules the two parties make.

[ancianita]

18. I will. And thanks.

[JI7]

19. she is the same age i am and that is not "the youth" vote

i don't know how long she has been paying attention to politics but if we go by the time we were able to vote at least in my case i can clearly see the difference in parties .

Bush being the biggest example.

and money in politics has a lot to do with the supreme court and republican appointed justices.

[ancianita]

28. You're right. She's an X-er.

[Kath1]

30. Bush drove me over the edge.

Liberal/Progessive from now on.

[DCBob]

180. Bush drove me to always vote Democrat no matter what.

We can't risk having Republicans run this country. We are still suffering from 8 years of Bush/Cheney hell and may never recover.

[Kath1]

21. I'd ask her if she really cares about things like choice, peace and marriage equality.

If she does, she needs to vote.

That would hurt me, too. I'm glad my daughter, 25, is very into progressive politics.

Have a mom-daughter talk.

[ancianita]

26. Right? I just thought we were past all that stuff. Her reasoning seems decidedly too shallow

for her age. But then, she's not been so politically engaged since she's come to run her own business while being a single mom.

[Kath1]

29. Being a single mom made me even MORE engaged.

If for no other reason, she should vote her own self-interest.

The decision is hers but this is a very important election with much at stake.

[ancianita]

31. Me, too! I was her single mom, so she saw my politics and knew the issues as I knew them.

Thank you for confirming an angle of argument I would have overlooked, since it has seemed so obvious to me.

She must be feeling impervious to any political changes in the country since her business is going so well right now. Somehow she must think that money will be her 'cushion.'

[Kath1]

36. None of us are immune to the the politics of this country.

Remind her. One single mom to another. Peace!

[ancianita]

175. ...

[Doctor_J]

153. peace?

By voting for the current democratic party?

[TeeYiYi]

23. `;(.....

TYY

[riversedge]

54. We forget how hard those women fought for the vote....

Thanks for the reminder

[ReRe]

55. Ancianita needs to send this to her daughter! n/t

[ancianita]

177. I posted it!

[ReRe]

186. History tells a story! ;-) n/t

[MADem]

32. Tell her "Way to opt out of which party picks the Supreme Court which will determine HER--not your -

future in old age."

Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

Sure she's not pushing your buttons for some other reason ??

[ancianita]

33. Seriously, what parent is ever sure. Okay, here's an updated response to her friends' FB comments.

She says:

THANK YOU, my women-folk, for your sagaciousness. Your suggestions about voting for ANYONE other than the contenders on a ballot as dissent against the two party system are sound and make sense to me (that and the fact that the rare referendum actually DOES STUFF). I feel better now, knowing that my heart hasn't been in the wrong place all along. Social networking FTW.

Also, If I can, I will take G [my nine year-old grandson] with me to do it.

Breathing easier now.

e: As for pushing my buttons for some other reason, she and I have had attachment issues. But over the last few years I think she's made it to the point where she no longer has anything to prove to anyone but herself. She dropped any desire to please or hurt me, for good or ill, at least three years ago. We still get along well about most things, laugh at the same things, she has her age appropriate privacy and 'issue' boundaries, but knows that I'm always her first and last loyal supporter.

Except for tonight! This voting crap was my break point tonight, and perhaps my own last ego attachment. Social networking FTW, indeed.

[MADem]

47. Don't let it get to you...there's no point in getting stressed.

If she insists upon voting for Fluffy The Vampire Whisperer, or some other "fringe" candidate "as a protest" and wants to rub your nose in it, just say hey, what the Supreme Court of the Future does is going to be your problem for longer than mine.

Or, you could say "Good thing you're getting older--you won't have to worry about reproductive rights when they're taken away, so long as you can time it so you hit menopause when they lower the boom..."

Or something similarly snarky, if that works in your conversational back-and-forth.

Hang in there....here's a little something to brighten your mood!

Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way....?

[ancianita]

176. Haha. Thanks! Love it!

[davidn3600]

34. Youth isn't disengaged, they just don't like voting for the lesser of two evils

I've talked to many young people and hear the same kind of thing. If they dislike both candidates, and a 3rd party candidate doesnt excite them, they just stay home.

Baby-boomers spent their entire political life voting for the lesser of two evils. The next generation doesn't want to play that game. They find it stupid and a waste. The youth tend to be anti-establishment. They don't like the way the political systems are monopolized by the two parties.

And they are not wrong! It is a monopoly. And it is one that we were warned about by George Washington himself.

[liberal_at_heart]

35. +1

One thing I love about my Millennial daughter is she doesn't just buy into the "that's just the way it is" mentality. When a potential employer told her she couldn't apply for a job there because she had purple hair she simply said well if they won't hire me someone else will. She refused to change who she was in order to fit into someone else's rules. She has recently started going bra less in public. She is more brave than I that is for sure. I think when she first started becoming politically aware I think she considered herself a democrat but now she is becoming more and more interested in third parties. She really likes Bernie Sanders. I love how anti-establishment the Millennials are. It gives me hope for the future.

[ancianita]

37. They are not wrong. But I'm so tired right now, all that comes to mind is my favorite movie joke:

[Adrahil]

78. They are not wrong... BUT....

It DOES make a difference. If she thinks a nation run by Barqck Obama is the same as one run by Ted Cruz, then she's insane.

[CrispyQ]

92. Staying at home isn't the solution and won't change anything for the better, only the worse.

If every eligible voter actually voted & called their senators and rep once a week, we could make a difference. When the 2008 crash was happening, phone & fax lines to senators & reps were busy non-stop for over a week. That is the type of action we need to take every fucking day. But ask people who their senators and rep are & more likely than not you'll get a blank stare.

Not voting is not the solution.

[lunasun]

134. +1

[uppityperson]

128. I felt that way my first election but never considered not voting. Once in my life I did not vote, a

mid-term nothing going on except a school level that failed by 12 votes. Teachers were laid off, classes combined, it was a bad mess for many. They did another vote a few months later and it passed handily. Teachers came back to work, etc etc.

It was a mid-term election with nothing going on but it proved to me that my vote does count.

[grahamhgreen]

139. The lesser of two evils, is still evil - Jerry Garcia

[emulatorloo]

146. Yeah both Dems and Republicans want mandatory Vaginal Probes

Love your bullshit thinking

[grahamhgreen]

148. They both forgive torture - is that evil?

I'm a Democrat, but I don't fool myself into thinking that all Dems are pure and perfect.

The problem is that we lose too many voters by sucking up to, and compromising with the R's.

It makes us look bad, and lose elections.

[emulatorloo]

155. Awesome non sequitur

We lose midterm elections when we don't get out the vote.

The crazy R extremists are frothing at the mouth to vote for their crazy extremists.

Our voters have lives and need to be reminded what's at stake.

[grahamhgreen]

168. I agree. I also understand how we alienate voters by standing up for evils such as torture.

[JI7]

143. i find people who talk about lesser of 2 evils in politics to view politics as if it's religion

[brewens]

38. I voted today. Too bad I'm in freakin' Idaho and as far as I know, none

of the Democrats I voted for will take any high office. A few state legislature seats might go our way. You cannot underestimate the importance of that. I did my part anyway.

[Not a Fan]

39. One of my children doesn't vote

It's a hard reality to accept. We always voted. I voted from the time I was eligible. We took the kids to the voting booth with us.

His complaints are similar - he doesn't see any difference between the two major parties - and I understand that. I do consider him a low-information voter. He's just not mature enough to care about the real issues. His career had taken all his time and efforts recently culminating in a successful kick-starter project last month.

And it is heartbreaking.

I won't give up on him though. Thankfully he's in Seattle-area where his decision not to vote isn't doing any damage. As far as I'm concerned - he has two sisters and thus has no excuse not to vote. I'll keep working on him. Maybe I'll sic his sisters on him - he'd listen to them.

[ancianita]

99. Thanks. I probably won't give up on her, either. If this is helpful and seems to support this view.

[loyalsister]

40. I lost a sister to that line of thinking

I keep wanting to get her to watch Iron Jawed Angels, but haven't found a good opportunity. If your daughter hasn't seen it maybe a screening before election day would inspire her.

When I was standing in line to vote one year, an elderly woman was there and she told me that the angriest she ever saw her mother was when she told her she hadn't voted. She told her she was born without that right and had it now thanks to some very hard-working who dedicated themselves to making sure she had that right when she grew up.

[liberal_at_heart]

41. I understand the passion involved but is it freedom if you are coerced or forced into it?

We have the freedom to vote. We also have the freedom not to vote. Any time we are prevented from doing what we want or forced into doing something we don't want to do. That is not freedom.

[loyalsister]

45. Who is talking about forcing anyone?

I think the point is that if someone decides not to, they surrender a right that was hard fought.

To romanticize it and pretend that there is something superior and noble is just a justification for ignoring the reality a person doesn't like. As for my sister, it goes along with a sense of entitlement that leads her to believe that she is supremely creative and should be able to make a living playing music.
She believes that she is being persecuted because it costs a lot to make a living and raise a kid. Of course, she also feels that she shouldn't have to pay any taxes. I have no respect for her choosing not to vote because she feels like her misguided unrealistic dreams are not represented.

[Adrahil]

84. Well.... Your post is a wholE lotta WTF

That's libertarian philosophy. We live is a society and the idea that any time your behavior is regulated you aren't "free," is an intellectual trap. Of course some behaviors will be regulated.

I'm not suggesting coerced voting, but the self-indulgent crap idea that it doesn't matter is poison, playing right into the hands of the oligarchs.

[ancianita]

174. Right?? If you're talking about my OP. Sorry this response seems wrongly placed.

[barbtries]

42. yes.

my 38-year-old son has never voted and insists there is no real choice. my 31-year-old (today!) hasn't voted since he was a teenager or early 20s. i fret, i lecture, i beg, and i cannot move them.
it's discouraging, but i keep trying. my 22-year-old, he votes and he votes blue.
fortunately for us all my 2 older boys are in CA so it's not so life and death. my youngest and I are in NC; it's much more important here imo.

ETA every day almost i post a GOTV on my fb page. the older 2 barely go there but there are many of their generation who are friends so it's a little i can do.

i'll be voting today.

[LuvLoogie]

73. I'll bet the older boys are single without children, too.

I'm sorry but that behavior makes them seem like entitled slackers to me.

[MyNameGoesHere]

43. I agree with your daughter 100%

Just think if no one voted. The message would be, we do not approve of any of you and we will not be forced into supporting big business anymore. That would be powerful.

[WinkyDink]

57. Pigs, wings, etc.

[PassingFair]

81. The teabaggers would all still vote.

THEN where would we be?

[Adrahil]

82. Dope, you're smoking it.

The plutocrats would LOVE if they were the only ones voting. You think they give a shit if anyone approves? They don't care if anyone approves if they aren't voting.

[MyNameGoesHere]

147. Not a necessary response about the dope.

Makes you look like one.

[Adrahil]

159. Sorry I hurt your feelings.

It's a common meme, implying an unreasonable position.

[MyNameGoesHere]

187. Feelingd hurt? No

I was just trying to help you from being called an asshole. Glad to help out

[JHB]

108. why would that be more powerful than a large vote total going to other people?

Elsewhere in this thread I have advocated writing oneself in where you simply cannot support either of the top candidates.

If a lot of people did that, a hypothetical result would be candidate A gets 25%, candidate B gets 24%, and 51% goes to hundreds, maybe thousands, of different write-ins.

THAT would get attention, and draw people chasing that 51%. "Protesting" by not voting is like "protesting" by doing nothing more than shouting at your TV. It just tells politicians that there is no downside to ignoring you completely.

[NYC Liberal]

161. No. The message would be "Hey thanks for handing over the government.

Now we the rich have complete and total control, more than we've ever had with no opposition."

Everyone not voting is the one-percent's wet dream.

[DrBulldog]

44. My daughter is the same way ...

... and there are millions of other young white women not voting as well. In fact they were the primary cause of the Republicans taking over the house in 2010.

And thus we have become the most stupid electorate in the modern world. Good-bye America.

[LeftishBrit]

48. I think she is wrong, and that it is sad that too many

people now have this attitude, and if it were someone in my family, I would be pulling out every argument in the book, from 'what about all the women who died for the vote?' to 'if you think money rules now, what will happen if the Republicans take complete control of Congress?'

And that although there is the cliché, 'if voting changed things, they would make it illegal', one must remember that this is EXACTLY what many countries do; and that indeed in the United States, the Republicans try very hard to make it difficult for many people to vote.

But I would not lose respect for someone because they did not vote for the reasons that your daughter gives. If she was just too lazy to vote, it would be different; but this is a matter of despair rather than idleness. It is the politicians of many countries, who deserve to lose respect, because they have allowed things to reach such a pass.

[Scootaloo]

49. Casting a ballot for a regressive is also very regressive

Here's the problem, I've happened upon.

After Kshama Sawant was elected here in Seattle, I went to the Socialist alternative site and signed up on their mailing list. next day, I got an email from a representative, wanting to meet up. No can do, I had work. Well, what about coffee, the next day? still working. well how about the weekend? Can't really afford the bus fare for weekends, I'm tightly budgeted.

Engaged in some phone conversations with people, but never could get out and do anything. I couldn't afford to. I saw an opportunity to engage, to try to pull thing left, if only locally... and because I literally can't afford the time, I couldn't do it.

Getting out and doing things is, after all, the only way to get change. And since most peopel are in the same position i'm in - not able to get out and do, things remain unchanged. so the ballots keep ending up with far right vs. center-right. Neoliberal bigot, or neoliberal who exploits social issues for election season oh gee.

Presented with unpalatable options, and unable to invest hte time needed to make changes to those options, a lot of people just don't bother. As a poster brought up below, voting third party is an option, but hey, one thing both parties can agree on, it's that third parties must be locked out, and so some pretty enormous effort is put towards doing exactly that.

[world wide wally]

50. Just ask her what the alternative is...

and demand an answer

[ancianita]

102. That's been my MO. Demanding answers doesn't work with her

[defacto7]

51. Two of my sons have made the decision not to vote.

I'm trying my damnedest to get their heads on strait. They know better but are swayed by their constituents. It's cold outside.

[TeamPooka]

52. She's surrendering to the very forces she's complaining about. Good thing she wants to help them. nt

[treestar]

70. Great way of putting it!

I've struggled to come up with something, but couldn't do much better than "shooting yourself in the foot." That's perfect. It's exactly what they are doing.

[TeamPooka]

127. Thank you. It's just sad. nt

[freshwest]

53. So sorry, ancianita. How sad that alternative media has taken another for a ride.

[ancianita]

101. Exactly my sentiments. But she's been swayed back to voting third party by her FB friends,

as her statement of defiance against money in politics.

I've told her that it will be a wasted vote. She's the stupidest smart person I know.

[WinkyDink]

56. A woman who can't discern the difference between Parties regarding women's issues? Oy.

[ReRe]

58. Somone on DU...

... said something a couple days ago that might encourage her to change her mind:
That "in the midterms, your vote counts ten times as much."

Also, elections are so close now, that indeed every vote DOES count.

Whatever you do, don't nag her. Just send her a card. And then let it go.

Good luck!

[ancianita]

103. Thank you, ReRe!

[RBInMaine]

59. TELL HER IT IS VERY SIMPLE: Quitting is no option in life. If you don't vote, don't complain.EVER.

[Youdontwantthetruth]

60. It is her life and her choice and she is an adult

but as others have said If she does not vote she should not complain.

Suggest to her to vote but write in the candidate of her choice if she cannot vote for who is on the ballot.

That is what I do, I have never missed an election, state/local/federal since 1978 and I am totally disillusioned with the Democratic party and I know my vote is pretty much pointless, but I do participate hoping that change will happen via the ballot instead of how I know change will actually happen because that is the path we are currently on today.

[arcane1]

145. What path is that?

[coldean]

64. I'm sad for you too

I'm also dealing with this same issue with my 21 year old daughter.
She refuses to vote and while I always voted, I do remember not really caring about it. At that age I didn't see how any of the issues related to me and that's why my daughter won't vote.

Your daughter's situation is different but I would tell her that she is right, big money has taken over the government BUT while the lawmakers are busy screwing us we mind as well get in a little victory of our own.
Ask her what issues are closest to her heart. If it's the ability for women to get abortions then ask her how would she feel if a republican won and made abortions illegal.
If it's a conservative issue that was so important to her ask her how she would feel if a democrat took that away from her.

Yea, I'm a believer that these lawmakers don't really care about us, that's no surprise!! But each party has a platform and those running for office need to stick to their platform even if they don't give a rat's a$$ about it. In the end we are still voting for and receiving victory over the issues that are closest to all of our hearts.

So when it's all said and done we are still a democracy, does it really matter why the elected officials are I office? Does it really matter in the end if they are being paid by large corporations?
Well no, even though it's wrong it's just the motivation that these idiots need to get out there and fight for the rights that we deserve.

I actually feel that big money running the office is so degrading, disgusting and needs to be stopped but until then I'm going to get mine!

Good luck with your daughter.

[coldean]

65. and one other thing to bring up

Oh and tell her that it's been this way from the beginning of time. So should we all just go back to the first election and decide to not participate?
She cannot deny that women have come so very far and so many wonderful changes have occurred over the generations while big money played apart of the elections!

I don't want to offend your daughter but she sounds as if she is very young and just got her very first lesson in corruption. Usually that temporarily kills the big ideas youth have when first going out into the world.
But at her age I wonder if this is just an excuse?

By our 30's we are all aware that these elections are just a game, the tear running down the face of the opponent while he/she speaks about poverty is so fake BUT he/she is willing to do something about poverty and because of that I couldn't care less if his/her tears are real or not.
I just want action, I am not so naive as to hope for action and to hope that that action is being done because of a genuine need to put an end to poverty.
As if...

The majority of the people in office have no idea about the struggles of the real world. About living paycheck to paycheck, unable to take your child to the doctor unless they are REALLY sick because you just can't afford it and because your lousy boss won't give you the time off. They think immigrants come here to steal jobs from us, they have no idea that they came here so their children won't die.

But we don't need for them to be in those situations, we only need for them to know that their is a demand and they have the product we need to fit that demand. We need for them to know that we will put them in office if they agree to our demand. That's all, and so we the people use them. They are like chess pieces to us, we use them to get what we want and they use us to get their nice comfy seats in office.

[ancianita]

104. I like this. I'm going to use this.

[TheKentuckian]

191. I don't think the woman cares about what is in their heart of hearts but rather what they actually

do.

There is also no demand. What we actually do is vote for them regardless because we fear the other guy will fuck us worse. Actual demands have consequences if not met. What we have are wish lists to be appealed to to get elected and then disregarded unless it is to be derided as "a pony".

[Live and Learn]

66. What I tell people that announce they don't see the point in voting is

that then they have no reason to complain. I tell them that I like having the moral authority to complain about the system but I only get that authority because I play by the rules and do vote. So go ahead, don't vote but, by the same token, don't complain.

That argument has really worked wonders and so far, they have all decided to go ahead and vote.

[brooklynite]

67. Why should you be surprised? I see that opinion expressed here almost daily.

(not the "not voting", but the "everyone's been bought off&quot

[ancianita]

105. Because everything I've done, from my job to my personal interests, has, in some way, been

an attempt to help steer this country toward utilitarian goals and civil rights. This is the worst thing my own daughter could say to me. I wish I'd never read her FB wall.

[wildeyed]

68. Nah, she is making her own decision.

At least she is thinking about it. Most people don't vote because they don't care. Sounds like she cares but is not able to see the subtlety in the process. She is right that the two party system is bullshit, but not participating in the process will not change that either.

I know a bunch of people who thought that way in 2000 and voted for Nader because Gore and Bush were exactly the same. They all regret that decision and now see the error in their reasoning. You might want to use that example. We would not be in Iraq and the make up of the Supreme Court would look much better. The Voting Rights Act would not have been weakened. No Hobby Lobby BS. And the big daddy of all horrible SC decisions, Citizens United. So yeah, they all take some corporate money, under the current rules you MUST if you want to win, but not all the same.

Also, see how she likes it when they take her birth control away. The right absolutely plans on it, and it has nothing to do with corporate money.

[stillwaiting]

69. It's about harm reduction, and it sucks that that's what it's about, BUT

that has value.

Democrats will at least be good for us on social values, and relatively, less awful on economic values.

It would be foolish to think that things will be "equally bad" with Republicans or Democrats in office. Things will be much worse for anyone holding progressive values with the lunatics running the asylum.

[randome]

71. So she's refusing to do anything until someone hands her better options?

Is she doing anything to better the odds that she will get what she wants? If not, she should vote because every vote for Democrats is a vote to help minorities and better our society.

When does a hill become a mountain? We don't know that until -wham!- it's there and everyone agrees it's there.

But it won't happen if we don't all contribute.

Voting is contributing to society.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[ancianita]

109. Exactly. It's about the big long term consequences of isolated acts taken collectively.

That mountain building idea is great.

[NCTraveler]

72. Very difficult to address.

Your daughters thoughts are based in fact and do have merit. It also seems as though you raised a bright young woman and should be proud. Her mindset of voting for bought politicians is a difficult one. Does she continue to vote in a seriously flawed process? If she does vote, is she supporting the process itself? Those aren't easy questions to answer and are questions I have asked myself in the past. The Democratic Party has left me with pretty much two reasons and two reasons only to continue voting for them. First, the Supreme Court. Second, social issues. A small amount of ground has been made with certain social issues under this administration that would not have been made under a Republican administration. I cannot withhold my vote when the lives of my brothers and sisters are slightly improved under democratic leadership. I cannot skip the ballot box for those two reasons. The difference in these two areas is big.

[jehop61]

74. Perhaps you need to reassess your priorities

and count your blessings. You have raised a thoughtful woman. Parenthood is so much more important than political affiliation. Love your daughter for who she is and don't judge, Family first, politics much later.

[ancianita]

112. You're right. Making effort and progress on all that. .

I could do worse than have the thoughtful children I have. As for who they are, I get to see the tip of the iceberg. Which I deal with fairly.

[99Forever]

75. Why would this surprise anyone?

This is the natural response to being lied to repeatedly in one election after another.

It has been said on this very forum, ad nausium, at some point declaring that "we don't suck quite as bad as they do" isn't going to work anymore.

This is the direct result of all of the punches thrown at the very people who put the spineless Democrats in office. If you won't stand and fight for us, then don't piss and moan when no one stands or fights for you.

Oh yeah and before some yahoo says it, I voted 3 weeks ago.

[tabbycat31]

76. Tell her to vote anyways

And if she does not like any of the options, write someone in. Even if that someone is a cartoon character. I've voted for Homer Simpson before (when the GOP officials are running unopposed).

[Adrahil]

77. Tell her this: it DOES make a difference.

Real people are affected. The ACA, which actually helps REAL people, would not have been possible is people didn't vote for imperfect candidates.

And if anyone thinks that a country run the tea baggers wouldn't look different from one run the Democrats, then they are just not paying attention.

Are Democratic candidates imperfect? Yep. Are they corrupted by money? Yup. But things will never get better if we just decide to let the Republicans do whatever they want... 'Cause I guarantee you, the Baggers WILL vote. To them, you NOT voting is almost as good as a vote in their favor. Why do you think they are spending so much effort trying to suppress the vote? Not because it doesn't matter, I can tell you that!

Note get your ass out there and vote and quit being self-indulgent. We can't accomplish anything if we don't do something.

[JHB]

80. Why isn't she voting for herself? She DOES have a choice.

Ok, she won't win, but if she absolutely won't vote for someone "bought," she should vote for someone who isn't. Even if it's just herself as a write-in.

Voting isn't just a right, it is often a chore, but one that needs to be done regularly just like washing dishes or cleaning up your house. If you leave it for someone else, it falls to those who don't mind attracting vermin.

[Adrahil]

83. I SO love this post. NT

[rock]

85. Exactly what the 1%ers want

The ignorant will vote randomly; the intelligent may decide not to vote. Result: essentially a random choosing of "politicians". These may be easily controlled. You get what I mean if all elected politicians were of Elizabeth Warren caliber.

[CrispyQ]

86. Someone on DU posted this & I posted it on my FB page. Maybe you should too?

[Live and Learn]

88. I love that! nt

[Live and Learn]

87. Inform her that her vote will count triple in the midterm election.

(That is per Pew Research - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/24/voter-turnout-aways-drops-off-for-midterm-elections-but-why/).

[SheilaT]

90. So she wants to wait around until better alternatives magically appear?

If she feels that neither of the two parties is worth it, or that they are both bought off and essentially alike, she should be out working like crazy to create the alternative she wants.

And she of course totally gives up the right to complain about elected officials if she doesn't vote.

[still_one]

94. One can understand her views, because essentially that is what things have become. There was always

money influence, but it does seems so much worse today.

However, with that being said, and at the risk of sounding like a cliche, it will remain so until people decide they have had enough, and change it. The way change is done in this country is through the election process.

Are there folks in Congress who are not influenced by money, or is it like Diogenes "looking for an honest man"?

Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Waren, and a few others I think fit quite nicely into the category that they "cannot be bought"

The only way to get more people into office that cannot be bought is through the election process. Not voting is a decision to leave it to someone else.

[maced666]

95. She one step ahead of republican voters. A positive, great start!

Glass is half full - I'm sure time and reason will fill the remainder.

[azmom]

97. This will be my daughter's first

Time voting. Both she and I are very excited about it. One thing I have always said to her is that you always fight the good fight. I think voting Democratic is part of that fight.

[A Little Weird]

98. One of my friends said something similar recently

She says they're all bought and paid for and that voting makes no difference. I told her that I have felt similar disillusionment so I can kind of understand. But I still vote because if voting made no difference they wouldn't be working so hard to keep people from doing it. Her response was something like "Huh, I never thought of that!". I don't know if it will change her mind and make her vote, but at least she's thinking about it.

I'm going to bring it up again soon and see if I can sway her. We are in Kentucky and I very much want to get rid of Mitch McConnell.

[LWolf]

100. My answers to your questions

are not allowed at DU, so I'll bypass the questions and say this:

As a mother, I say being a mother is about unconditional love and acceptance; a mother who can't respect her child because that child takes a stand on principles that her parent doesn't agree with needs to take a huge step back and look at the bigger picture.

Raising a child willing to take a stand FOR something is something to be proud of. In this mother's opinion.

And a child who has reached the age of 35 doesn't need anyone's approval when choosing HOW to stand on her principles.

[ancianita]

111. I know. And I've even tempered some solicited advice at times, knowing that her path is hers,

and that I'm just one voice among the many that accompany her.

[LWolf]

116. Sometimes

we all just need someone to listen, to hear us; I'm sure that she will not make a sudden decision, and never consider it again. As she is wrestling with her frustration, which is, frankly, a powerful reality for many of us, I'm sure that she will continue to look for positive ways to deal with it. That may not means that she votes THIS time, but it probably also doesn't mean that she's dropped out of participation for ever. Someone who feels that strongly is driven to action, not to giving up.

[woo me with science]

173. +100000 Good answers.

Unlike millions of other Americans, this young woman has figured out the partisan lesser-of-two-evils con game that the two corporate parties use to keep us moving overall in a predatory corporate direction, no matter which party is elected.

I'd call that a sign of exceptional attention and engagement, hardly "disengagement."

And I would join you in betting that she will find ways to engage politically that go far beyond casting a hostage vote....toward growing pressure and leverage in this country for real change.

[LWolf]

185. When a critical mass gets there,

we will see that change.

[seabeyond]

107. i saw this on fb. put it on your wall. make your own statement

[ancianita]

110. Thanks! I've got a profile pic about 'good people' voting in bad politicians by not voting, too.

[forthemiddle]

113. My son, and alot of his FB friends

Have all decided that they WILL vote, but vote for a third party candidate. This is in the politically divided state of Wisconsin.
They are all in their mid twenties, recently college graduates. When I asked him why, it wasn't because they were "all the same" but instead because they are all corrupt in their own ways.
Mary Burke is the least inspiring candidate (IMO) Wisconsin has had in the past decade. Even the most recent state wide poll that shows her and Walker dead even claims that over 60% of respondents stated the #1 reason they were voting for her is that she is not Scott Walker. Her own voters don't want to vote for her.

She has refused to answer straight forward questions about what she would do about fracking, and frack sand mining. She has refused to say what she would do about the new casino that wants to open here. She has refused answer even the #1 question about repealing ACT 10! That is the legislation that Walker put in that basically ended public unions in Wisconsin, and she refuses to answer if she would try and repeal it.

Wisconsin had some great potential Dem candidates, but the big "bosses" decided that an unknown Millionaire would be our best choice????? Do you know that nobody in Wisconsin knows one personal thing about her (is she married, divorced, kids, etc) and they don't care just because she isn't Scott Walker! Sorry, although it won't change my vote one bit, I still want a leader and Mary Burke aint that.

Back to the subject at hand (sorry to go off on a raving rant about our poor candidate - that may still win), my son and his friends are saying screw it, we are going to send a message, and 3rd party is the way to go for them. They are rebelling, and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it!

[ancianita]

114. Thanks for this! Because the more I understand how youth think, the more I'm able to

frame issues that come up from their perspectives.

We keep seeing this 'learning the hard way' about politics because these kids can't be told anything.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

115. I'd say 1) there are usually local measures to vote for, even if you don't care for the 'parties',

and 2) there almost always are at least a few candidates available for whom to vote who are NOT Dems or Repubs, if you truly feel NONE of you offered party candidates are worth voting for, especially in higher offices.

And of course, there's always 3. They're not doing what you need? Why just be a voter? Become a candidate next cycle, and promise voters the changes you believe in.

[ancianita]

117. A million thanks to you all! I feel so much better, can collect my thoughts better and

actually have an elevator pitch about why voting matters!

My daughter's latest response to my comments:

There's WAY too much detail to make sense of with respect to the political process when we're all just trying to keep a roof over our heads and provide for our children and our own old age. How nice to have the gentle perspective of judging others' choices by virtue of no longer having to worry about such things because you made all the "right" choices within the social construct that no longer exists for those of us still coming up in society.

Make yourself useful by informing, not judging. Make yourself useful by telling us, modern voters, WHO, WHAT, WHY. "Vote because we fought for the right!" rings hollow when voting always feels like an exercise in arbitrary decision-making these days...

...NO ONE is making an effort to give ME such usefully qualitative information. In Jefferson County Colorado, sure as shit they do. On every street corner. At every grocery store entrance. On local PTO websites. They make it easy to WANT to vote over there 'cause PEOPLE make it clear that there are a LOT of good reasons to do so: a vote can actually affect their family and community. What other state do YOU know of that successfully FIRED an elected official because she 180'd on her campaign promises?

Finally! She sounds like she's going to vote, even if she's pissed about it.

Did I say how much I love Democratic Underground? To the moon and back! Thank you!

[coldean]

119. Good news

[uppityperson]

135. My old mother told me similar, and that she decided who to vote for based on 1 issue. There are too

many things to consider, too many factors, too many lies, so she looked at the person's record, not their promises but their record, on women's issues. Abortion, domestic violence (yes, I know it is men's issue to), etc etc etc. Did they treat women as thinking beings with equal rights, or as little ladies who needed protecting/controlling?

She said she knew she misvoted on other issues, but it came down, to her, to what was best for half the population, herself, her friends, their daughters and ultimately all the men/boys also.

[LiberalFighter]

120. This message might be useful.

https://www.facebook.com/161563533896551/photos/a.513501982036036.1073741825.161563533896551/850851988301032/?type=1&relevant_count=1

[GoCubsGo]

122. Exactly right.

And, anyone who says "both sides are the same" isn't paying attention.

[ancianita]

126. She can't stand memes. I've posted it, though. Thank you.

[Glassunion]

121. Sadly I feel she has a great point.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of voting. The system is rigged and quite frankly, nothing is going to change that.

She does not want a candidate who was bought. But, no candidate can get into office without being bought. All elections are bought and the winner always seems to be the one with the highest price tag.

So she is left with the ever-standard vote for the one you hate the least. Then she can spend the next 2 or 4 years feeling responsible for the mess that person makes and will 100% in all likelihood not make any positive changes to the system.

If she does not vote, I feel that she would have every right to complain about the state of affairs. Be cause she was 100% not responsible for them. She did not vote in someone with big oil, big pharma, NRA, bankers, energy, telecom, big media, etc... in their pocket.

Over 6 billion dollars were spent in the last election. That is an awful lot of money from an industry that does not produce anything.

So I understand her dismay completely.

I will think of her as I go to vote for some assholes who will make things worse, yet are slightly less assholy than the other assholes, who will make things more worser.

[Marrah_G]

123. I'm going to try and be a voice of reason

Your daughter made a choice that disappoints you. Don't you think "broke your heart" is a little extreme? Try to put things in prospective, because when it comes to our kids, words make a difference. You haven't failed, she is an adult. You can work towards changing her mind for the next election. She is in your life, you and she love one another, focus on that instead of allowing one election to make you feel so badly.

Call your daughter, go out to lunch, laugh, smile, eat, drink, talk about anything and everything except politics. You will feel better

[ancianita]

125. Thank you. I realize all that you say, and her decision hit me at a weak moment. Best to look

forward and won't let her change in attitude about politics affect me. I do feel better for all the caring advice here. It's just that, as a DU'er, I don't come here because politics is cause for venting, or pastime. I come here to stay informed and learn more. The 'failing' feeling hinges mostly on our change in outlooks about the worth of politics and how that affects voters. Still, we can talk, and keeping lines of communications open is fundamental.

Again, thanks.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

124. Tell her that to not vote is Not Rebellion ~ It is Surrender! nt

[Hugin]

133. Indeed it is.

Good point.

[Rhinodawg]

129. OMG !!

[Hugin]

131. Have you explained to her that her not voting gives the worst two votes?

My S.O. has been 'spite' voting for years. She views it as making stealing an election as difficult as possible by exercising her right...

MAKE THEM STEAL IT!

[ancianita]

140. Amen! I said he midterm votes count waay more than votes in the general. Make them steal

it is another good reason to vote anyway, no matter her issues with 'bought' parties.

[blm]

132. It's been fueled by RW media tactics targeting the idealists

who would normally vote for a left-leaning candidate. They end up persuading some on the left to join in on the boycott.

GOP operatives will screw anyone out of their vote.

[Chathamization]

136. If you get pissed of that the streets are dirty, you shouldn't say that trash cans are useless and

start littering. When we get bad candidates, we get them because voters aren't showing up and voting for good candidates. Having one more voter not showing up to vote for good candidates does not solve this problem.

And if you want a better Democratic candidate, the way to get one is to get enough people to vote for them in the primary (and with the tiny turnouts, you only need to get ~6% of the people onboard a lot of the time). Being frustrated that you can't change a Democratic candidate right before the general makes as much sense as not voting in 2006 because Bush is going to be president either way.

Edit: Regarding your daughter specifically - most people have huge blind spots when it comes to elections, and the vast majority of Americans don't vote in or pay no attention to many important elections (myself included). The media certainly doesn't help with these things.

[mahina]

137. Best outcome, teach her how to look up campaign contributions and support Common Cause.

Also let her know that there's a colossal fortune being spent to bend her to that position, that it's not a coincidence that young people are being sold that package.

It's true that withholding support can break an unjust system but to do so she would have to stop paying her taxes, and face going to jail. Not voting isn't withholding her support really, just handing the government over to people who want to impoverish her and feed the war machine.

My son's girlfriend doesn't care about voting either. I try not to be angry with her about it but it took her down a few notches in my estimation of her intellect.

[grahamhgreen]

138. I knew the new war would be the death knell for 2014:(

[ZombieHorde]

141. I don't generally find label based arguments to be compelling.

She may not either. I think you should try a different tactic.

I have been proud to engage in the electoral process since I was old enough to do so and have participated (in many actively and avidly) in every election I've ever been registered for.

This is a great basis. Because of this, you shouldn't have too hard of a time persuading her, but this may take time. She may not vote in this election, but don't worry about that. The prize is long term. Don't pressure her too much, or you'll lose her ear.

I have realized that EVERY political contender on the ballot has already been bought by "big $$$"...so why bother? Democrat or Republican identifiers (and the realization that the concepts of dichotomy and "zero-sum game" are effectively false) and "ideals" are NOT enough when, once in office, none actually represent "constituent" interests...only "big $$$" interests.

You need to start where she is at, and this is where she is at.

Maybe something along the lines of...

Sure, both parties are beholden to big $$$, and that is definitely discouraging, but is big $$$ the only thing that motivates them? Doesn't seem that way with their strong disagreements on marriage equality, climate change, historical revisionism in school text books, etc. Wall Street is winning right now, and that is incredibly frustrating, but that's not the only fight right now. Just something to think about.

One of my Comm classes discussed something called "invitational rhetoric," where the persuader just talks about their own experiences and views without trying to push them onto others, and this is supposed to "invite" the listener/reader to your side. Tell a story about your experiences with voting, or something that inspired you to vote or be more civically minded. She may not reply, but she will think about it.

Obviously, you know her better than me, so that knowledge to judge my suggestions.

[ancianita]

142. I appreciate the invitational mode of discussing idea, and we've got time for me to try that.

The fact that she was there all those years that I voted -- and she went with me a couple of times -- led me to assume that she knew voting's importance. You know, valuing by example and all that.

Know her? Well, over the last five years I've come to doubt that I know her as well as I thought. She's been on her own since age 18. And I definitely know that pushing anything onto her gets me nowhere.

Thank you very much for your interest and communication strategies.

[markpkessinger]

144. Here's a graphic you might consider posting to her timeline . . .

[grahamhgreen]

149. Very good!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

150. ...

[greatlaurel]

152. The right wing,like the Birchers and Koch Bros have been pushing "They are all the same" meme.

The fewer people vote the more the people who really hate ordinary people win. Please share with her how much money and how much dark money is being spent to suppress voter turnout. If our votes did not matter you can be darn sure the Koch brothers would not waste any of their money on suppressing the vote. The only thing those guys love is money and they would not waste any of their precious dollars if suppressing voting did not reap them great returns.

[ancianita]

154. Thanks, greatlaurel. This is an idea I'm sure she can appreciate. I'll run it by her.

[greatlaurel]

160. So glad you liked the idea!

Hope it helps.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

156. Nope

She has joined the proudly ignorant. Nothing you can do, until she realizes (too late) the destruction Rethugs will bring down on us.

[ancianita]

158. Wouldn't be the first adult reality she's learned the hard way, either. She thinks that by owning

her own real estate business that she'll be impervious to all the social network destruction that they'd try. I think she prefers engaging in local politics, which she believes is more relevant for her. To me it's all of a piece.

We have too many in America who don't believe in preventive harm reduction through voting, but who wait until voting consequences hit them before they recognize the Cassandras were right. I don't think you're unrealistic about this at all.

[Doctor_J]

157. she's figured things out it seems

Unless she's a megadonor, whoever she votes for isn't going to work for her. I can sympathize with her.

[Tsiyu]

162. Hope she's not in TN

where we have Amendment 1 up for a vote, which, if passed will put your daughter's life in peril should she ever become pregnant.

There are some issues that are worth the effort to step up to the ballot box. Perhaps you might find something or someone up for a vote in her locale that is compelling enough to convince her to change her mind.

Sorry about the let down. Don't let it get you down. Kids will disappoint, but her raising will prove itself in the end.

[ancianita]

166. Not TN; just outside Chicago, and I can see that her FB friends are convincing her. Thanks!

[KittyWampus]

163. I hope she doesn't face an unwanted pregnancy in a state run by republicans.

[sunnystarr]

164. Please advise her to look at the facts ...

Our President won the last two elections because of voter turnout. Big money was against him. Enough people voted that even in areas where they fix tabulations in their favor they didn't calculate the massive numbers turning out to vote for Obama. They were so sure that Karl Rove and Mitt Romney were dumbstruck at the results.

If we had the same voter turnout in mid year election then the Dems would win hands down.

It's the reason why big money has been trying to deny voting to groups of Dem voters. They succeed with voter ID requirements, less voting machines in Dem districts, eliminating early voting opportunities, not accepting student IDs, sending out erroneous information like the wrong voting day and place to Dems, and a host of other tricks that I'm too tired to think of. While some of these laws have been put on hold by the courts others will be in effect for this election. If her vote didn't matter they wouldn't be wasting their money.

In local elections many have won with less than 10 votes - there are even cases when ONE vote made the difference.

It's not that one vote matters .... it's ALL the one votes that matter collectively. The people have the power if they'd only step up to the plate and VOTE!

[marlakay]

165. Could be worse, my daughter votes republican now

They started out democrat and were the ones who first told me about Obama in 2006, but after many years of her husband being in the military as a officer I noticed little by little they were changing how they believed.

The thing that sent him over was 3 years working at the Pentagon, he fell into the trap of thinking he can get rich and their way of thinking about money is right.

So I tried for first time in awhile to talk to my daughter....she is in Colorado and getting attacked as she says by both sides. I said to her how can you vote against women?

Even without Fox News she is programmed by her husband on the economy thing. You wouldn't know she has a masters degree by how she isn't thinking critically.

[ancianita]

167. Sorry for this. But at least she votes. People often adapt to the political environment they're in.

As an aside...
I've been appalled all my life at how our taxes are now on intravenous fast drip into the Pentagon and larger military. Not to mention all the tax subsidized corporate money. I was the wife of an officer in the Vietnam days and can tell you that with all the regimentation, indoctrination that surrounds military people, and with all the supplies and machinery shuffling, being an officer is like being a bureaucrat.

[marlakay]

172. Thanks for understanding

It got harder and harder for them over the years to have any liberal friends as the friends couldn't be enlisted at least that's what she told me.

All of their friends are fellow officers or parents of kids friends and they live off base in a conservative area. Most are very religious even though my daughter isn't.

[mstinamotorcity2]

169. Your daughter didn't break your heart.

She is just coming into her own thoughts. Yes a lot of them are disengaged. but more of them are engaged. those that voted for this President and feel the repercussions of allowing 2010 to happen are engaged. they see what has happened. Besides everyday repugs feel this stupidity too. You can't attack every profession in the country without stepping on toes. And just maybe they have stepped on enough toes to have an outcome they aren't expecting. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes repugs show they unhappiness by going the other way or staying at home. A lot of them wanted those cuts until they found out they were in the number included ibn those cuts. If you are proposing cuts to those people, then its okay. wait a minute you mean I am one of those people, maybe we need to rethink this a little. Tell your daughter that you respect her decision but its a lot of people who need her to exercise her right to VOTE so that their lives may have some relief.

[ancianita]

170. Thank you. Maybe she didn't break it, but she sure hurt it. It felt like it was punched. And your

ideas about how people don't know the consequences of wanting spending cuts to others until they suffer them, too, is spot on.

[mstinamotorcity2]

171. When your daughter says how unfair something is...

just remind her how funding is considered and voted on in congress. And if she wants to even the playing field for herself and others she needs to step up and make her voice heard. Its a little thing with powerful results.

[Marr]

178. Well, that's going to happen after decades of Third Wayers selling us out.

It is unfortunate, because the only way forward that I can see is to take the party back from the bottom up. IMHO, that includes refusing to vote for corporate Democrats, but if there's no one on the ballot that isn't some corporate mole, it's tough.

[ancianita]

181. Third Way's a dot org, apparently.

http://www.thirdway.org/


I think it's what they do after they get elected that differentiates the parties. Because they're 99% moles in one way or another. This poll looks encouraging; but then I look for those lately.

[cascadiance]

179. Challenge her to do something else if she feels voting doesn't work for her... Become a PCP

Something where perhaps she'll see the process behind the scenes and subsequently see why voting, and ALSO being a part of the political process is very important at this point to reverse the current trends she's upset about (and many of the rest of us are too!).

She will see that many who are PCPs at the local levels share the same frustrations she does, and then perhaps understand that the more people that become PCPs with her perspective, we can change the way parties do business from the ground up.

I was just able personally to help our party locally here inch closer towards endorsing Instant Runoff Voting than it used to, and feel a good sense of doing my part, even if job hunting right now is keeping me from being more involved in GOTV efforts. Everyone has a way to fit in to the system of change. They just need to find it. And after being involved they will understand more the need to keep voting as the mechanism to synthesize those changes we're all working hard for now.

Not voting and disengaging totally is exactly what the corrupt part of the PTB want, and her getting involved will help her see that and know she needs to do something about it instead of surrendering to our creep towards fascism.

[ancianita]

182. What's a PCP, again? All that comes to mind are a drug or a primary care physician. lol

Politics/Corruption/Propagandist? Sorry.

As she said, she's already swamped. She's pissed off at trying to cull the truth from the ocean of bull we swim in, and I can't say I blame her.

There's WAY too much detail to make sense of with respect to the political process when we're all just trying to keep a roof over our heads and provide for our children and our own old age...

She told me:

How nice to have the gentle perspective of judging others' choices by virtue of no longer having to worry about such things because you made all the "right" choices within the social construct that no longer exists for those of us still coming up in society.

So it's not as if she's as open to me as to her friends who, it seems, have succeeded in changing her mind to at least lean toward voting.

[HockeyMom]

183. I am voting and I will DRIVE you to the polls

Did that MANY times myself. I didn't tell them who to vote for, but just that they MUST vote. They DID vote Democrat.

[ancianita]

184. Happy it worked for you. I did that once, but now if I did that she'd laugh me out of her driveway.

[AngryOldDem]

188. I'm slowly getting to be of the same mind, unfortunately.

I live in one of the reddest counties in the country, in one of the reddest states in the country. There are not any even **nominal** Democrats running for any office. It's like the Democratic Party doesn't exist here. I will vote in national elections, but local? Give me a reason why. And I don't think it ultimately makes any difference to GOP voters, either, because all the elected officials here seem to be bought and sold ten times over by developers, make decisions accordingly, and don't tell anyone until it is too late to object.

It's frustrating, and it's out of this frustration that I wonder why I bother.

But I would say that this is not something over which to ruin your relationship with your daughter. Please think long and hard about this. It's one thing to disagree politically; quite another to lose all respect as a person for her.

[demwing]

189. My son told me that he would not vote

He's 19, and a big fan of Russell Brand.

His big objections:

He doesn't know enough about the candidates to make a quality decision
He doesn't trust our voting machines
He doesn't think there's much difference between the parties

We went through hours of debate, and my breakthrough moment was this:

Even if you vote wrong, even if your vote is flipped, and even if the parties ARE the same, your inactivity does nothing to change the system, in fact it makes it worse. Somewhere, a statistician is reporting that another 18-25 year old didn't vote, and that adds to the false meme that young voters don't care about election outcomes. When that happens, politicians stop caring about what affects that age group, and they tailor their messages, platforms, and policies to age groups that ARE engaged.

There's nothing wrong with a symbolic vote, when it symbolizes that you give a damn.

We went to the polls Saturday, and early voted in Florida