Charles Barkley and the Black Community...

[BronxBoy]

Given the amount of interest in the threads about Charles Barkley's comments. Thought I'd post the clip from today's Tom Joyner Radio Show to illustrate how this is being discussed in Black America. The Tom Joyner show is probably the largest syndicated Black radio show in the country

http://blackamericaweb.com/2014/10/28/don-lemon-some-black-people-are-mad-at-charles-barkley-because-hes-right/

[JustAnotherGen]

1. But I didn't go through it

Barkley says all black people who are successful go through it and its just unintelligent black people who do it to intelligent black people.

Now getting picked on by white girls for my hair - that was common. Being picked on racially by white kids - common.

But by black kids? No way. Maybe because of where I grew up but we kind of had to stick together.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Great Analysis from MadameNoire

http://madamenoire.com/482890/lie-charles-barkley-told-black-people/

From my own personal experience (since it is okay for Barkley to offer his as fact), it is a rarity to come across a Black household in this country (hell in the entire Black Diaspora including the continent), which does not teach the value of education as a way “out” and “up.” And according to the numbers, Black women specifically are the most likely to enroll in college than all other ethnic and gender groups in the entire country. We are also the most likely to read a book. Likewise the idea that there are more Black men in prison than in college has been largely debunked and actually determined to be the other way around.

^Reference in this snippet^ http://www.npr.org/2013/04/23/178601467/are-there-really-more-black-men-in-prison-than-college
Are There Really More Black Men In Prison Than College?

Quote: MARTIN: Now, that's a powerful image, but is that really true? Something our next guest has taken a look at. Ivory Toldson is an associate professor at Howard University School of Education. He wrote about this for TheRoot.com, and he says...

IVORY TOLDSON: It's wrong. There are 1.4 million black men in college right now, and there are about 840,000 black men in prison.

Interesting - on education - since yesterday we had the good old 'beat up black people because they don't care about their childrens' education around here at DU. This is also in the Madame Noire rebuttal:

http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/apr08/vol65/num07/The-Myth-of-the-Culture-of-Poverty.aspx

MYTH: Poor parents are uninvolved in their children's learning, largely because they do not value education.

The Reality: Low-income parents hold the same attitudes about education that wealthy parents do (Compton-Lilly, 2003; Lareau & Horvat, 1999; Leichter, 1978). Low-income parents are less likely to attend school functions or volunteer in their children's classrooms (National Center for Education Statistics, 2005)—not because they care less about education, but because they have less access to school involvement than their wealthier peers. They are more likely to work multiple jobs, to work evenings, to have jobs without paid leave, and to be unable to afford child care and public transportation. It might be said more accurately that schools that fail to take these considerations into account do not value the involvement of poor families as much as they value the involvement of other families.

More from the Madame Noire article - which kind of points out what I was trying to say in my original response to the OP:

In fact, I hear more Black people being chastised by other Black people for sounding and being stereotypically Black and not possessing all the markers of successful and educated than I have ever seen over the smart Black kid. In fact, I don’t ever recall hearing a single joke or seeing a single meme on the internet about those with good jobs, grades and dictions. I’ve never recalled anyone making fun of doctors or lawyers or teachers even. It just does not happen.

However, I have seen memes and jokes about all the ghetto and ratchet Black folks though. And that includes: the thugs and welfare queens; those who can’t spell well; those who dress and look cheap; those with multiple children; those with missing teeth…Basically the lowly and down-trodden.

Again, I don’t deny that at times, Black folks give each other a hard time. But there’s also racism and the more detrimental and pervasive idea that Black people are inferior to White people. That belief system, right there, is the root of our angst, inequality, injustice and struggle in this country. What that means is that no amount of pulling the pants up and college degrees will shield us from the harsh realities of discrimination – I don’t care if you are a trash man, trying to be the first (or only one of a very few) Black supervisors at a waste management facility or the president of the United States trying to pass laws in the White House.

I just think Barkley is using 'all' when he should not be.

I'm not giving a guy who who excuses Zimmerman's behavior a free pass just because he's black.

If I think another black person is wrong or being a jackass - I have just as much a right to take jabs at that person - as Barkley did. If he can't stand the heat - then he should focus on his little orange ball. <---- That's the snobbish elitism Madame Noire was pointing out working right there.




Psssst - one more thing - bravenak caught it for using 'ebonics' on Friday from a white member at DU. She was catching hell for her grammar from a few folks here.

So before someone says it's not right that black folks do this (make fun of those who speak Ebonics) let it be known . . . both sides do it.

[BronxBoy]

9. Thanks for posting this....

Bookmarked to read in depth later

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. I really think that the MN article will help shed light on this issue. Definitely read.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. Quoting MN's article, you wrote...

In fact, I hear more Black people being chastised by other Black people for sounding and being stereotypically Black and not possessing all the markers of successful and educated than I have ever seen over the smart Black kid. In fact, I don’t ever recall hearing a single joke or seeing a single meme on the internet about those with good jobs, grades and dictions. I’ve never recalled anyone making fun of doctors or lawyers or teachers even. It just does not happen.

My reply:

Remember Rachel Genteel? For those who don't, she was the prosecution's star witness in the Trayvon Martin trial. Do we remember who was more likely to be embarrassed by her? Most likely to mock her? Most likely ridicule her for diction and attitude? Yes, that's right! Black people! Black people of ALL stripes. There were articles in black magazines about Rachel Genteel. There were discussions on the Tom Joyner Morning Show about how Genteel's lackluster testimony would cost the prosecution the case. There was ridicule from black women, afraid that Rachel would led to whites believing that ALL black women were "Rachel Genteels".

No truer words have been written: We blacks are tougher on each other when it comes to "code switching". Yes, we can and do speak Ebonics. Yes, we code switch. Yes, some may behave differently in various contexts. Every racial group, especially one that has been historically oppressed, has those cultural proclivities. For example, there are Hispanic/Latino cultural traditions, patterns of informal speech, code of ethics and behaviors that exists among that community. Sure, there is. But once we're in the mainstream, we have to act the part--and this goes for ALL segments of the black community. We know that more than anything. So Barkley's assertion that this phenomenon is widespread and the charge that we don't hold each other accountable is complete and utter bullshit! We do! We just do it behind closed doors. But white people want to see us tear each other down; they want evidence that we chastise each other, condemn each other. For some reason, it makes them feel good. They don't think it goes on unless THEY are able to see it, to dictate the terms of HOW we are to be chastised, and the parameters of the discourse. And I argue that they have no right to make such demands. These are issues that should be addressed by us in the way that WE see fit, not how THEY see fit.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. I remember Rachel Genteel

And this -


They don't think it goes on unless THEY are able to see it, to dictate the terms of HOW we are to be chastised, and the parameters of the discourse. And I argue that they have no right to make such demands. These are issues that should be addressed by us in the way that WE see fit, not how THEY see fit.

[kwassa]

22. I agree 100%.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

60. It was later revealed that she had a speech impediment, a fact that was unknown.

So if those articles were sympathetic, they probably were because of (a) that and (b) the substance of her testimony was most important--not how she spoke or looked.

[BronxBoy]

76. And remember Gabby Douglas...

after achieving the height of success, she got trashed by a lot of our folks because of her HAIR.

Oy Vey

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

84. As one who proudly wears her in its natural state, I was going to go there...

I was thinking about Gabby but decided that was another discussion.

Sigh...

[BronxBoy]

87. I know.....n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. Another spot-on point from my friend and partner, JustAnotherGen...

The point:

However, I have seen memes and jokes about all the ghetto and ratchet Black folks though. And that includes: the thugs and welfare queens; those who can’t spell well; those who dress and look cheap; those with multiple children; those with missing teeth…Basically the lowly and down-trodden.

My response:

There is an entire community on social media, particularly YouTube aimed at offending, demonizing and ridiculing blacks for being "rachet," speaking poorly and "acting ghetto". Very popular black YouTubers, such as Tommy Sotomayor, David Carroll, and Tariq Nasheed, have made entire careers on offending black women, in particular--where they single out the worst stereotypes they can find about black people and do exactly what Sir Charles did: assign these negative stereotypes to an entire group of people. In fact, I waited with baited breath because I knew that Tommy Sotomayor--the most popular YouTuber of all--would make a video praising Charles Barkley for what he said. The guy is the most self-hating black person I've ever seen in my life.

In fact, rarely have I come across ANY personality on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook or any form of social media or entertainment forum that condemned black folk for being smart and successful.

Sorry, Sir Charles, but that just doesn't happen (or rarely does it happen).

[adirondacker]

64. +1000. nt

[KamaAina]

82. I used to live near Xavier University in New Orleans

the only Catholic HBCU. Once I went up there for an antiwar vigil, and was (pleasantly ) surprised to learn that enrollment was 4-1 women. In the late '80s.

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. Madame Noire sees it through a different lens than Charles.

Namely gender.



What Barkley is describing as a race problem is mostly a gender problem.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

92. Both JustAnotherGen and myself have acknowledged this in our respective posts.

The problem with Barkley is that he is attributing this problem to an ENTIRE group of people--black people, regardless of gender.

But the issue is that "acting white" is a phenomenon that, while it does exists (JustAnotherGen isn't disputing this fact), the magnitude of the problem is overblown.

Even more important, though, is as that charge you posted demonstrates, the gender gap poses a greater threat to society than "acting white" ever could.

Most important, however, is that I've argued that in general, the average American has dumbed down. In other words, I think American society as a whole has devalued education. And it doesn't help that we are now putting a premium on education whereby only the very wealthy will be able to afford a college degree.

We're all going to be too broke or too poor to be concerned with black people "acting white". Being poor is going to be the issue.

[JustAnotherGen]

99. Liberal Stalwart

Said it well. My husband has a very successful "blue collar" business. He sold hs HVAC company a few years ago because he couldn't compete with competitors hiring undocumented workers and driving down their prices. But he still has his metal works and historical restoration/preservation.

It's not just college - its skilled trades. Who we call his fair haired girl is a 24 year old black woman who he connected with when he went into Camden NJ to explain career choices. She's a brilliant artist - no one told her she could weld a custom railing for a building in a manhattan or make a table we re purpsed metl for some chi chi poo poo lulumom - or hang from the ceiling of a church in Belgium and restore the metal around 400 year old stained glass with a UNESCO certification. He now has three women that came through the same apprenticeship working for him. That's who jumped at the opportunity!

Young men aren't jumping at the opportunity to learn trades - skilled crafts - even when you get paid to learn.

He's pushing a friend's son to consider solar installation certification. He'd love to partner with a young person and give them a hand up doing something he is passionate about - the environment.

[Number23]

101. A thousand thank yous, JAG. This forum is probably the last place I'd have this conversation

and it's primarily because of things just as you mentioned. since yesterday we had the good old 'beat up black people because they don't care about their childrens' education around here at DU.

I have absolutely no idea why this keeps getting posted here. But I am so glad to see the number of black pundits, journalists and thinkers giving Charles' opinion the weight and gravity it deserves. Which is, very, VERY little.

I'm not giving a guy who who excuses Zimmerman's behavior a free pass just because he's black.

Please. I am begging you. Please tell me that did not happen.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

3. Here's my take on this issue...

Last edited Tue Oct 28, 2014, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Madamenoire is absolutely right! What makes white folk think that they have a monopoly on values? What makes white folk believe that they are the only ones who care about their children? Who want their children to succeed? Who want their families to prosper? For one to make these assumptions is, in itself, racist! Please stop!!

It is a fact that while the number of out-of-wedlock births are high in the black community, along with teenaged pregnancies, the rate at which these incidences are occurring is declining and has been declining at record pace over the last 5 to 10 years, if not more! Why? Well, especially because black women have been matriculating into college and professional schools at an alarming rate; in fact, the numbers are higher than for any segment of population, including Asian Americans.

Snippet from the National Center on Education Statistics (NCES):

"Response: From 1999–2000 to 2009–10, the percentage of degrees earned by females remained between approximately 60 and 62 percent for associate's degrees and between 57 and 58 percent for bachelor's degrees. In contrast, the percentages of both master's and doctor's degrees earned by females increased from 1999–2000 to 2009–10. Within each racial/ethnic group, women earned the majority of degrees at all levels in 2009–10. For example, among U.S. residents, Black females earned 68 percent of associate's degrees, 66 percent of bachelor's degrees, 71 percent of master's degrees, and 65 percent of all doctor's degrees awarded to Black students. Hispanic females earned 62 percent of associate's degrees, 61 percent of bachelor's degrees, 64 percent of master's degrees, and 55 percent of all doctor's degrees awarded to Hispanic students.

From 1999–2000 to 2009–10, the number of degrees earned among U.S. residents increased for students of all racial/ethnic groups for each level of degree, but at varying rates. For associate's, bachelor's, and master's degrees, the change in percentage distribution of degree recipients was characterized by an increase in the numbers of degrees conferred to Black and Hispanic students. For doctor's degrees, the change in percentage distribution of degree recipients was characterized by an increase in the numbers of degrees conferred to Hispanic and Asian/Pacific Islander students."

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72

----

Do blacks commit more crime? Violent crime? Do black men, in particular commit more crime/violent crime? Hmmm...FUCK NO, Charles Barkley!!!!

Let's look at the numbers!

First, crime has been on a steep decline--PERIOD--over the last 10 years! I live in Washington, D.C., for instance, formerly Crime Capital #1! No longer!

The numbers from FBI:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf


PEW Research: Gun Violence is down 49%--yes even in places where most black folk live! GASP!!
Yes, BronxBoy and the white people who co-sign with him and Charles Barkley nonsense--it's true!

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

----

Oh, and here's the kicker:

Several recent studies demonstrate that we black folk truly DO value education. In fact, we are MORE, not less, inclined to value education than other segments of the population...

Rice University study: http://news.rice.edu/2013/11/12/african-americans-are-the-most-likely-to-value-postsecondary-education/

College Board/National Journal poll: http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/education/why-minorities-are-more-optimistic-about-the-value-of-college-20131107

Finally, as a researcher by trade, I always like to see empirical evidence of claims made by people who make assertions about an entire group of people.

Many years ago, I read this paper by two sociologists at the acclaimed University of Chicago, Cook and Ludwig, who conducted a longitudinal study of 10th black and non-white Hispanic high-school students to put this theory of "acting white" to the test. Basically, they wanted to know if black and Hispanic students devalue education or perceive that blacks pursuing education, doing well, and ultimately succeeding in life are "acting white".

Here's a synopsis of their study:

"The acting-white hypothesis suggests that African American youths perceive a conflict between educational success and black cultural identity. If this perspective governed behavior, we would expect that black students would "aim lower" in school and withdraw earlier than whites."

Hypothesis: If the "acting white" theory holds true, then "we would expect that black students would "aim lower" in school and withdraw earlier than whites."

Findings: The respondents provided information on how far they expected to go in school. As shown in Table 2, the results are similar for the two racial groups, and reflect a remarkable optimism for both. For example, about 60 percent of both black and white respondents expected to at least complete a
four-year college degree. The average of respondents' expectations is virtually identical for the two groups. Adjusting for family characteristics, we find that the black students expect to go a half year farther in school than the whites on the average. These results are generally consistent with those based on a survey of female 10th graders in 1980 [Karraker, 1992] and on the survey results from NELS in 1988, when these students were in eighth grade [Voelkl, 1993]. While in the 1990 survey almost all 10th graders expected to graduate from high school, the follow-up survey in 1992 found that 6.9 percent of the whites and 9.8 percent of the blacks were no longer enrolled in school (Table 3). This
difference between the racial groups disappears when we adjust for family characteristics. The adjusted school persistence rates found in Table 3 are produced via a probit regression analysis in which family structure (whether there is an adult male guardian living within the home), family income, and mother's education are included as explanatory variables.

(Note: they follow-up with an analysis on student efforts towards homework, the likelihood of dropping out of school, parental involvement, and finally results of a survey regarding how high-achieving black students v. white students are perceived.)

Entire study at link: http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/JPAM-BurdenActingWhite-1997

Let me make this final note:

I am NOT suggesting that the "acting white" phenomenon does not exist in the black community. What I am suggesting is that it does, but that the problem is being treated by Charles Barkley and some whites who have embraced his blanket statements about the black community as a much larger problem than it really is.

A personal story: I was always chided by other black students for being smart. Me and other nerdy black kids. None of us ever thought we were as popular as other kids. But I was shocked by how respected I was among my peers. These were the same ones who made fun of me or accused me of "acting white". These same peers are now asking for my friendship on Facebook or coming up to me at High School reunions to tell me how much they admired me for pursuing my goals and not letting people get to me.

This phenomenon is an issue in the black community. Make no question about it.

HOWEVER, as I stated yesterday in another thread, same Charles Barkley topic:

(1) It doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it once was, as evidenced by the improvements in educational, professional, and social/economic mobility that many black have achieved.

(2) I posted the stats of black women who are matriculating into college and professional schools at high rates, but this is true across the board, regardless of race. It is MEN who are being left behind. Not just black men--ALL men, except for maybe Asian men. In other words, women are outpacing men in terms of entering and graduating from college, entering/earning degrees from professional schools in all areas.

(3) There is a systematic dumbing down of ALL Americans. So, this "acting white" phenomenon is overblown. It is overblown because Americans have become dumber, period! Our ability to embrace and truly value education overall has declined in recent years. As a former professor myself, I can assure you that the average American propensity to exercise critical thought is lacking. The attention span of the average American is maybe 10 minutes. I could go on and on, but we care much more about what Kim K. is wearing than we do about rewarding good teachers with better pay.

Charles Barkley's "acting white" phenomenon is overblown and is a simplistic excuse to explain away much more complex problems. And the only reason why we're seeing white people gleefully agreeing with him is because he is making them feel better and justified in their own prejudiced attitudes.

[Vattel]

4. Great post. Thanks.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:58 PM - Edit history (1)

[JustAnotherGen]

7. This is beautiful!

Thank you!



And this an extra big and :yahoo:

There is a systematic dumbing down of ALL Americans. So, this "acting white" phenomenon is overblown. It is overblown because Americans have become dumber, period! Our ability to embrace and truly value education overall has declined in recent years. As a former professor myself, I can assure you that the average American propensity to exercise critical thought is lacking. The attention span of the average American is maybe 10 minutes. I could go on and on, but we care much more about what Kim K. is wearing than we do about rewarding good teachers with better pay.

[BronxBoy]

12. Wow......

Thanks for posting. The one thing you can always count on in DU world is that people will make posts like this that offers up some great material that i might not come across otherwise

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. Thanks, BronxBoy. I want to apologize, as I wrote my post in anger and included you

in that. I hope we all will reflect on these issues. Actually, I have a lot to think about myself.

[BronxBoy]

39. No worries

Didn't even notice it

[uponit7771]

5. Who's Charles Barkley? As a black man why should I care about what he says? tia

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)

[BeyondGeography]

31. He's a blowhard who used to be a great ballplayer

Basketball. Not even 6-5 and he could dominate the paint. Interesting player, but his mouth often gets him in trouble.

One story that I always found funny, whether it's true or not. Barkley had been quoted somewhere about how basketball players were the best athletes and they could take boxers in a fight, since they are much shorter. So one night he's in a club in New York, feels a tap on his shoulder, turns around and this squeaky voice says, "what's this I hear you're gonna kick my ass?" it was Mike Tyson. Charles reportedly shat himself and denied everything.

[BronxBoy]

117. LOL....

Mike and that voice......

[uponit7771]

6. Seems Barkly has fallen prey to fundamental attribution error... also

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)

[Gormy Cuss]

8. Kicking for the great links in posts . n/t

[strawberries]

14. The truth can sting a bit

and then there are those who will trash him for fear that Black America will listen to him.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. We don't need to listen to Charles Barkley, as Charles Barkley hasn't contributed

anything new to this discourse. Black folk have been having this discussion for years. We just don't include white folk in it because they don't belong in it. Has nothing to do with them.

Check out the entire thread, as you will see some valuable information--much of it debunks Barkley's oversimplistic assumptions.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. Good point

When it is Chris Gardner I'll listen. Or Kenneth Chenault I'll listen to it/read it with serious intent.


But not an entertainer/talking head.

[BronxBoy]

80. I have the same problem with Charles...

that I have with many Black conservatives. Even if the subject is worthy of discussion, I often feel that we are talked at rather than engaged in a dialogue.

I can't prove this but I have often suspected that if you were to get a hold of the speaking schedule of many Black conservatives, you would find that the overwhelming majority of instances where they feel the need to lecture us would be primarily in front of White audiences.

[BronxBoy]

85. And one other thing....

Interesting how we haven't heard from "Sir" Charles with any where near this bluntness about either Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown. And to add insult to industry. They were both young Black men without criminal records who were headed for some form of higher education

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

91. These points emphasize what I've stated about my own suspicions and questions

regarding the motives behind white interest in this topic:

Few whites acknowledge that Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, and Mike Brown--all three young men--had promise and were all on their way to higher education.

Few whites acknowledge that Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, and Mike Brown--all three had fathers in their lives. Devoted fathers.

Few whites acknowledge that even though these teens were not perfect. Like ALL young teens, they make mistakes, succumb to peer pressure, do stupid things--none of them deserved to be gunned down in cold blood. NONE OF THEM!!

Many whites and some conservative blacks who were famously paraded in the mainstream media for their views attacked these victims for how they dressed and for the mistakes they made as teens. It was as if because they made these mistakes, that somehow justified their deaths.

And before anyone attacks me for this posts, there have been various polls and surveys that demonstrate the racial differences in perspectives and points of view on these three cases.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. I know

Look at what happens when we point out to white Americans how much we know about them (us black folks).

As the dominant culture that permeates everything -

We see so much wrong in the communities of those who descend from European immigrants and yet there is such resentment when we point out that it's beginning to look like everyone is either turning into Honey Boo Boo's family or the Kochs.

It's all there.

All laid out.

I mean - maybe there is something secretive behind closed doors we aren't seeing where folks chastise each other - but by and large all the bad behavior appears to be condoned -

Or more people would speak out.


ETA for Strawberry - so you can learn about a true black elite in America - This is Mr. Chenault

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. It's also unfair. We don't ask White America to condemn or make excuses for

Sarah Palin or Honey Boo Boo. We don't look at them and then make blanket statements about all white people or even all poor white people.

But when a handful of black folk misbehave, white people make demands on our leaders--on all of us to condemn each other. They have done this to Obama and they love it when he does it, too! Again, it makes them feel better about their own contribution and white privilege. That they don't have to take responsibility for their own prejudices provides cover. So any time there's a Don Lemon, a Bill Cosby, a Michelle or Barack Obama, a Stephen A. Smith, or a Charles Barkley--white people LOVE that because, again, they are given cover; they are justified in their own sense of superiority and provided an excuse to be racially prejudiced. That's why surveys show two different world views when it came to how Trayvon Martin was treated. That's why studies have shown that white demonstrate a lack of empathy towards blacks--if they have never experienced oppression/discrimination, etc., and white privilege absolves them from even thinking about these things...AND we have Charles Barkley and the president himself blaming blacks themselves for our own demise...well, it lets white people off the hook. Makes them feel better about their privilege.

----

Yesterday, Google.com featured a compelling story about a white man and raising his black son. In it, the author outlined "7 things he could do that his son can't do" and how that opened his eyes to his white privilege, something that he denied he had (or couldn't come to terms with) for years:

7 Things I Can Do That My Black Son Can’t

Calvin HennickOctober 27, 2014

7 Things I Can Do That My Black Son Can’t

[img][/img]

The writer with his son. Photo courtesy of Calvin Hennick.

In the days after the Michael Brown shooting, I wrote an essay titled “I Hope My Son Stays White,” detailing my fears about what might happen to my biracial three-year-old son if he grows up to have dark skin. The upshot: America, to its shame, is still a place where black males are feared, and I don’t want that fear to turn itself on my son in a way that leads to his arrest or death.

I published the piece on Ebony.com, and the reactions from black readers ranged from “sad but true” to allegations that I myself was engaging in the very racism and colorism that I was decrying. But buried among these was a comment from a white reader who accused me of “sucking up to black folk” and then went on to list the supposed advantages of being black in America. (Apparently, according to this reader, my son will have an unearned fast track to a career as an air traffic controller. Um, okay?)

I can’t help but think that, if the essay had been published in an outlet with a larger white readership, many more commenters would have chimed in to deny the continued existence of racism. In my experience, white people (and straight people, and male people, and Christian people — all groups of which I’m a member) tend to dismiss the notion that we’re privileged. It’s an uncomfortable thing to acknowledge that you’re the recipient of unfair benefits, especially when those benefits are often nearly invisible to those who receive them.

But when you’re a parent, those privileges stop being invisible. It’s the reason why male congressmen with daughters are more likely to support women’s issues. It’s the reason why Ohio Sen. Rob Portman suddenly declared his support for same-sex marriage after his son came out as gay. And it’s the reason why, everywhere I look, I see hassles that my son will have to face that I don’t:

1. I Can Walk Through a Store Without Being Followed
2. I Can Succeed Without It Being Attributed to My Race
3. I Learned About My Ancestors’ History in School
4. I Can Lose My Temper in Traffic
5. I Can Loiter in Wealthy Neighborhoods
6. I Can Complain About Racism
7. I Can Count on Being Met on My Own Terms

Read much more of the story at the link:

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/7-things-i-can-do-that-my-black-son-cant-99408985077.html

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

24. I worship Kenneth Chenault! What a brilliant man he is!!!!

[JustAnotherGen]

26. He's a very good solid person

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

My dad was very well acquainted with him - as is my god father (God father is now retired from the Banking/Finance industry as a top tier exec).

Now when he says it - and he won't because he's too busy making things happen in this world - I will listen.

He's just - well - kind of better than Barkley.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. Well, he makes sense (and is well spoken to boot! LOL!). The man knows what he's

talking about and has a way of explaining very complex phenomenon in easy-to-understand layman's terms.

[strawberries]

27. I watched as much as I could

will bookmark as I am at work. I can't tell if he is Italian or AA. Maybe both

[JustAnotherGen]

30. He's black

He really is.

You probably haven't been around enough of us to know we don't all look alike . . . like Mammy or Ruckus.


ETA - Adding a link - he's the CEO of AMEX. You know that company right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Chenault

[strawberries]

34. if you all looked alike

then I would have said, oh he is black.
He looked like my grandfather who was from Italy. I was a bit taken back for a second.

Sorry I don't know who Mammy and Ruckus are. I guess I don't get out much. As for not being around enough of you, you haven't got a clue about where I've been or where I am going so don't put me in with others

[JustAnotherGen]

37. My husband is from Italy

Southern Italy /Calabrese - he doesn't look anything like that. I've been in Sicily and in Calabria - I've never seen an Italian that looked like that - unless they were the descendents of Africans.

I just take people as I read them.

And I know you have at least 30 years in your career which means you could be at least 48 right.

I don't believe - in particular - that you don't know who Mammy is. That stereotype.

I mean - it could be true.

But then that would mean you have never heard of Aunt Jemima Syrup or Gone With the Wind. That's kind of unbelievable.

Perhaps you aren't an American?


I don't know but sometimes the truth stings right?

[strawberries]

41. I know who

Aunt Jemima is and I love the movie gone with the wind. I am 57 years old and we are not sicilians we are Italians . I am an american and that man reminded me of my grandfather. Not all Italians look alike.

Now I have to google Mammy brb

[strawberries]

44. ok googled mammy

I never meant to offend anyone, if I have I am sorry. That man still looks like my grandfather

[JustAnotherGen]

48. Maybe you are actually a black American

Sometimes blacks would 'pass' a few generations ago. . . There were then and still are extreme advantages to having a lighter complexion as a black American.

My parternal grandmother probably could of - but she chose the blackest black man as a rejection of her partial whiteness.

[strawberries]

53. Africa

did invade Italy

Italians are also part
black. They were conquered
by the Moors centuries ago.
Moors were African conquerers who
came and took Europe back in the
day. Italians used to have blonde hair and
blue eyes. Once they were conquered by the
Moors-the population of Italy became dark
hair dark eyes, dark skin. They even
act like brothas. read your history

[JustAnotherGen]

57. I have

Required for my Italian Citizenship.

Tutte poste?


Did you know it was my friend ancestors that did what the Italians and Spaniards failed miserably at?

Putting down the arabic invasions. If not for them - your grandfather would have been ALL arabic or black.

And what is this 'brothas'?

I've never heard of that. I've spent time extensively in country (we actually own property there too) -

What does it mean to act like a 'brotha'? Is that white American telling black Americans their perception?

[strawberries]

61. it was a copy and paste

didn't read the brotha thing until after I posted. Although when I go home I do refer to my male black friends as my brotha and so does my blood brothas. We group up together and they were my brothers. Even to this day they act like my older brothers. We were all family until...... we weren't

Get off of the white america thing because America has turned a wee bit brown since the mayflower trip. Which I heard was a gas

[JustAnotherGen]

65. Nope

I'm not.

I won't get off of White Privilege and White America.

It is the dominant culture.

It is.

I'm sorry you can't see that - but I'm a black person with a white mother. Parents married til death did they part. Grew up in a town called Scottsville NY - prep school, private university.

I'm 41 now.

I have an advantage here - I grew up in the shadows and homes of white America and I see all of it's flaws.

So no way.

I've never received a hide for refusing to back down here.

I've been polite -

But I will NOT do what YOU tell me to do.

Capisci?

[strawberries]

77. I capice

.

Bless your parents and their strength to have brought you into this world 41 years ago. I am sure you have been through a lot and have many stories to tell.

My family was not wealthy at all. I can remember my mother crying because she could only afford to feed us pasta fagioli. Now I find it so funny when I go into a restaurant and see for $12 a bowl and people eating it as though it were some sort of delicacy

kisses my friend

[BronxBoy]

118. Is this Dennis Hopper???????

Because if it is, you know we've got to shoot you at the end of this thread.

[strawberries]

121. you got me

bang bang

[BronxBoy]

122. LOL....

Well you better smoke that Chesterfield.......

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

43. He's black.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. read strawberries comments

I'm wondering if she is actually black and her grandfather perhaps passed?

That's fascinating.

We hear of these stories all the time but I've only met one person who believed they were 100% of European descent and found out they were not in my life. It was actually a friend growing up in high school that learned her great grandmother had been a prosti in Storyville.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. ...

[uponit7771]

130. Stupid racist can sting too but mostly they're laughed at by adults

Last edited Wed Oct 29, 2014, 08:48 PM - Edit history (1)

[strawberries]

131. You mean

by adults not buy adults

[MrScorpio]

23. Never forget that Barkley is a black conservative

I've never seen a black conservative who didn't pander to right wing whites by saying the worst things imaginable about other black people.

Black cons are all about self-hatred. White cons point to that self-hatred and say, "See? If a black person repeats all of the bad things that we've been saying about black people, then it must be true."

The audience for black cons aren't other black people. Hatred of black people doesn't sound any better in a black voice and coming from a black face. The natural audience for black cons are white people who fear and hate those who are different than themselves. They look to black cons for a confirmation of that hatred and fear.

Never think for an instant that black conservatism is some independent form of black empowerment. Black empowerment builds the black community and allies itself with all those who want to do the same, regardless of race. The original Black Panther Party allied with Asian, Latino and white partners against oppression. They were practicing true black empowerment.

Black cons are nothing but dividers. They seek to divide black people from both our allies and from other black people.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. I didn't realize he's a conservative

See - truthfully MrScorpio - my financial interests totally lay within the Republican Party.

But then I'd have to associate with 'that one'. No bueno.

[ieoeja]

33. He's not. He told a joke once. Now, nobody will believe him when he tells the truth.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:50 PM - Edit history (1)

The joke was along the lines of:

Someone asked me once about my politics. I hadn't realy given it much thought, so I asked my Grandma about it. She said, "we've always been Democrats because they care about poor people. Republicans only care about the rich."

So I said, "but, Grandma, we're rich now! So I guess we're Republicans!"

Not only is it an obvious joke, but it is a joke that actually makes fun of Republicans!

[JustAnotherGen]

40. He chases prostitutes though

I just learned this.

Damn that bravenak!

Google it - December 2008. :jawdrop: It's scandalous!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

49. He was joking, sure, but Charles Barkley is a Republican. He may have changed

his party affiliation to vote for Obama in 2008 (he did admit to voting for Obama because he was "disillusioned" with the Republican party). However, he was up until that point a registered Republican and contemplated a run for office (I think governor at some point) in Alabama, but decided against it.

Note a common tactic from black conservatives: Referring to black Democrats as "brainwashed". Whenever I hear that, I understand instantly what I'm dealing with--a black conservative/Republican who doesn't know his/her history of the two-party system in this country. This is a tactic that black cons were fed to from white cons to make them feel better about being black cons/Republicans. I'm not sure. But this whole "blacks are brainwashed" nonsense is a common utterance specifically from black conservatives who charge that blacks who vote Democratic "all think and act alike". In fact, that is exactly what he is suggesting in this most recent tirade--we're all unintelligent because we do this or that, etc.

Political affiliation and background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley

(yes, it's Wiki, but I do think they get it right here for the most part)

Most famous comments about Democrats:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/768628/posts

His only redeeming value is that he has spoken openly in defense of President Obama--and points the finger directly Republicans for their obstructionist tactics. That's more than I can say even for many right here on DU who are hellbent on blaming Obama for everything and not even lifting a finger to point at these Republicans--and now we see what's about to happen as a result: Republicans could take the Senate.

Maybe he'll run as an Independent.

[ieoeja]

58. I use wiki a lot, but I have heard him deny that claim live on a couple occasions.

Given that "Barkley is a Republican" is "common knowledge", I would be surprised *not* to see that on wiki. However, it is common knowledge that I have seen him deny on television.

As to Free Republic as a source ... I will be nice. To you. Not them. They're idiots who only listen to rightwing sources which is going to tell them that Barkley is a Republican. Even putting their own partisanship aside, that self-censorship is going to make them a worthless source.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

68. Yes, I knew the Free Republic would be a bad source, but if he's saying bad things

about Democrats, why would they make them up?

Anyway, forget that.

For the sake of this argument, I'll give Barkley the benefit of the doubt and accept that he may not have been a registered Republican. I disagree with that, but let's say that he was never a Republican. And let's accept that Wiki is full of shit. And we know that Free Republic is full of shit. Still...

What we do know his views and those views are not aligned with traditional liberal or Democratic Party principles, whatever they are.

[JonLP24]

128. He said this in 2006 "I used to be a Republican until they lost their minds"

If interested, try to find some clips w/ him on shows w/ mixed panels, you'll find him disagreeing a lot more with the right hosts/guests.

A lot of things he says politically I agree with, especially Bush, post-Bush years but there are other things where he doesn't seem to have a deep understanding but you can generally count on him being honest to the point of the real reason why he was speeding during a DUI stop.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

129. Yes, I agree as well. And I do remember that he left the Republican Party...

...(I knew he was a Republican no matter what he said in public) because of Bush, Iraq and I think was he finally saw as a racist party.

However, I'm not sure that he became a Democrat. He may be unaffiliated.

I do, however, remember hearing him say something like "Republicans have lost their minds; they are drunk on power" or something to that effect.

I'll try and find YouTube excerpts later.

[JonLP24]

127. Based on combination of political positions spoken

Last edited Sun Feb 14, 2021, 01:52 PM - Edit history (2)

I'd say he is on the left side overall. Him, Chris Webber, and Kenny the "Jet" spoke out against SB 1070 in Phoenix when they faced the Lakers in the WCF which was during the height of SB 1070 and he was the first one to mention in it. I can't see any commentator on any network having the guts (something most of our party politicians running for state office didn't have) to do that on that stage.

The one thing about Charles Barkley that I do like is he speaks his mind for better or worse. I know where he stands and that is something I can respect even though it may not be what he is saying.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. Oh, yes! Barkley is a major Republican. He just voted for Obama. But he was going to

run for political office in Alabama. I guess he realized how racist they are down there and decided against it. But's it's no secret where Sir Charles' politics lie. He's always been very open about that, which may be why he's so vocal about this situation. Black conservatives do seem to be very contentious when it comes to politics. I've met some who are quite reasonable and fair. They are Republicans because of economics only, but are socially liberal. To which I've always questioned because I never understand why one has to be a Republican to be economically conservative/socially liberal. Republicans have been anything but!

I digress...

You write: See - truthfully MrScorpio - my financial interests totally lay within the Republican Party.

My response: That's why you're a Democrat. There are a lot of Democrats who should not be because it would go against their financial self interests. I'm also one of them as well. And because I have no children, it's even more politically irrational to be a Democrat. But, what makes us a Democrat is our commitment to understanding our contribution to society. That having a healthy tax base is directly related to good schools benefits the entire community; therefore, I am willing to pay a little more of my income in taxes if it improves the community even though I don't have kids--thus, giving me the benefits--one is appreciating home values! I don't care that I live in a wealthy Blue State where my taxes are redistributed to a poorer state Red State like Georgia. Why? Well, one, because I have family there. And two, because I am committed to helping the poor and have devoted my life and career to helping the poor, unemployed, the homeless. These are my values. I think this society is better off when people are given a hand up--not a "hand out". I don't believe that everyone can or will be helped, but I believe that we should try to help as many people as possible. Society is better off when we do.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. I just love you!

You totally nailed it.

I can't see how expanding prosperity and giving folks a hand up is not a good thing.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. Thanks so much for this. You've broken down in plain English another point I've been

attempting to make, but in much clearer terms.

I also have to point the finger at the white liberals who embrace black liberals because said black liberal(s) agree with them. I've seen this happen with Cornell West, for instance. Because most black voters supported President Obama and some white liberals are angry at Obama, rather than turn to another white liberal to make a point in fear of being called out as racist, they get a black progressive like Cornel West or Tavis Smiley and say, "See, black people who supported Obama? Even black liberals like Cornel West don't like Obama." Normally many of these folks wouldn't know who Tavis Smiley is and barely knew who Cornel West was before in the 2004 Election. But because these black liberals now hate Obama, suddenly I've seen Cornel West's mug on every political commentary show--liberal and conservative--more than I've seen any other black face in many years. Since when have you seen any black liberal on a political commentary show? Hell, we seldom get liberals, period, unless they're condemning Democrats or Obama. He's been invited on Faux News, several times even! He goes on there and acts like a complete idiot! And they love it!

[MrScorpio]

35. That's exactly true.

It's how the left hamstrings itself.

I've never fallen for that either.

[Number23]

104. + a million Mr. Scorpio

The audience for black cons aren't other black people. Hatred of black people doesn't sound any better in a black voice and coming from a black face. The natural audience for black cons are white people who fear and hate those who are different than themselves. They look to black cons for a confirmation of that hatred and fear.

+ a freaking million

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. Rec for the good discussion nad information this OP has generated. Thank you, all involved. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

32. Eh?

It just go really ugly. And glad to see you are looking at this. You 'see things' other people sometimes don't.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

120. Too bad it went downhill. Happens all too often

'Round here. At work now. Will read more thoroughly when I get home. Still are good links and info so - there is that.

[RadicalGeek]

36. That "Crabs In The Barrel" Conversation

Last edited Tue Oct 28, 2014, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Needs to be had in public, IMO, or at least be had outside the barbershop, etc.

This is something that needs to be discussed bu the NAACP, etc.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. Why would it need to be discussed by the NAACP

It seems the white folks in America - perhaps yourself included -

Are discussing it more than enough for the blacks.

Why don't YOU do what WE tell YOU to do - and go have the discussion behind closed doors?


EDITED POST - You received a 'hide' by a jury yesterday for posting almost the exact same thing and your only contribution to this thread is to complain about a hide? I don't think that's allowed -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025721517#post34

RadicalGeek This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

34. But not enough of them do--







"Chastise their own".

I have NEVER heard anything where the NAACP, etc have devoted any time to confronting a culture that does seem to make the "Thug life" cooler than succeeding in the mainsteam world, or calling on a boycott of companies that profit from selling deviancy to the vulnerable masses.

The last person who tried may have been C. Dolores Tucker, and the closest current example of someone trying now may be Jason Whitlock!
A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Mon Oct 27, 2014, 01:06 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

[MrScorpio]

51. When talking about "crabs in a barrel..."

Never forget that the barrel isn't a natural habitat for crabs.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. Why does it need to be had in public? So that white folk can ridicule black folk?

Why? Tell me why?

And yes, you'll get flagged again if you come with racist bullshit and if you're offensive. Absolutely.

Tread lightly.

[JustAnotherGen]

71. I don't know what to do with this

You aren't supposed to challenge hides by jurys as o.p.s - is it also allowed within a thread? Like - can you make a post pointing out a hide by jury you received (basically an attack on the DU community) - complain about it -then move on to post the exact same words that got you a hide in the first place?


What's a girl to do?

[RadicalGeek]

74. I have removed that reference

<EOM>

[JustAnotherGen]

75. It doesn't matter

I've put it out there. And I'm going to answer your question you made - perhaps you don't have enough knowledge and experience on race issues other than athletes and rappers? Like - that's your frame of reference.

reddread challenged DU'ers on friday night to name five black Americans MALES you respect.

Can you answer that question without using an Actor, Musician, Rapper, Athlete or Comedian?

Next - has that person been here on this earth in the past 20 years?

That's a good gage to understand if you are ready for the discussion.

[RadicalGeek]

78. Cornell West Doesn't count

Or Keith Ellison (D-MN)
Cory Gardner(D-NJ)
Rev Barber('Moral Mondays')
Daryle Lamont Jenkins(sp) Founder of "One Peoples Project&quot

[JustAnotherGen]

102. You mean my Senator - Cory Booker right?

Was at a fund raiser with him this past Saturday. Very nice man. My boss has great stories about him from when he was a teenager. They bought their house across the street from the Bookers. Awesome family I hear!


ETA - my list was all men I know/knew personally.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

83. A girl can put out another "alert" and explain how offensive this is.

We don't demand white folk to have a public forum whereby they condemn other whites for their behaviors.

As I said the Hispanic/Latino community faces similar socio-economic challenges as the black community: crime, poverty, unemployment, out-of-wedlock births, high school drop-out rates, etc. And yet, White America doesn't go to La Raza and demand that their leaders publicly chastise, castigate, condemn ALL Hispanic Americans for the behaviors of a few--while ignoring the vast contributions and successes of many Hispanic Americans.

Only white Americans treat black Americans with such derision. Why?

[bravenak]

103. Did you say a 'culture of deviancy'?

Did you?

And what is white culture? Non deviant? They don't misbehave or speak terribly and unintelligibly in many areas? They don't kill or harm?

What about the hundreds of years of history of white racism? Not deviant? Even though it never ends and affects us and our children and always has? Or is it only us blacks that get labeled a deviant culture for our bad apples? Why do you white not whip your deviants and racists in public as you would have us do?

How about this? You go first. You fix your deviants and racists and do it loud and publicly while broad brushing yourselves, and when you all come correct, then we will take our turn. We have already spent 400 years being publicly whipped by our own for the benefit and pleasure of the majority. Now it us time for you all to take your lumps. From each other. Your turn.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

108. Yes. I'm afraid he/she/it DID utter the words 'culture of deviancy'. Yes, that's right.

[bravenak]

110. Ummm hmmm.

Yeah. It's just us. Any excuse to say 'See! blacks are baaaaad!'

Wants us to publicly bash our own while their kids shoot up high schools and shit. Only OUR deviants are deviant. I should alert, but I just get mad that they always tell me to fight it out with the person. Racists things are not for hiding. We must always pretend that racist stuff is not racist because some racist may get mad.

[Number23]

106. "there IS a "Culture of Deviancy" in the African-American community"

And you, as a non-black person, would sure as shit know what about this "culture of deviancy" more than the people born, raised and who have lived EVERY DAY in that culture, wouldn't you?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

107. Maybe that's best. Your remarks have already been responded to...

You: A) I am not stating my position clearly

My Response: You're stating your position very clearly. It's just that people disagree with you and think that you have no right to demand what you are demanding. I personally do not think any white people has the moral standing or the right to dictate anything to the black community. Period.

You: B) My position is not being clearly understood.

My Response: Trust me, your position is well understood. It is clear. It is understood.

You: No one is saying that the WHOLE Black community should be called out, etc. But the "bad apples" need to be brought to task.

My Response: And this has been done in public repeatedly by a long list of black leaders, organizations, etc. That it is not a sufficient enough of a condemnation for your liking is YOUR problem, not ours.

You: But this is a position I have held for a long time, that there IS a "Culture of Deviancy" in the African-American community.

My Response: There is a 'culture of deviancy' in the African-American community is just about as offensive as one can get. And that's why you were alerted. There is a 'culture of deviancy' is the white community. There is a 'culture of deviancy' in the Hispanic community. My friend, there is a 'culture of deviancy' in ALL communities. Why? Because we are humans. Humans do good and bad things. This 'culture of deviancy' that you speak of that apparently ONLY exists in the black community is nonsense. It is not only nonsense, it is racist. And you should be ashamed of yourself for repeating such bullshit.

You: Maybe much like Don Lemon said, this is an idea that can't be expressed in public. And it's in that darkness that it will spread.

My Response: Don Lemon expressed these sentiments in public. In fact, he continues to express these views in public. He continues to chastise blacks in public. The President of these United States has chastised blacks for social problems in public. Hell, he has established his My Brother's Keeper Initiative that specifically addresses issues of this nature. Anyone can go to whitehouse.gov and read the initiative. Other famous black public figures have also done what you suggest--from Bill Cosby to Mike Steele. From Charles Barkley to Stacey Dash. The issue is that none of these people are saying anything new. They're not opening up a new dialogue on race relations. They aren't saying anything that black folk haven't already been discussing now for many decades. You're obsessed with NAACP. But I can assure you that were you to attend an NAACP meeting, you will see that the meetings discuss issues that have a negative impact on the black community. The forums are not hard to view, as C-SPAN has begun to air the events. You may even be able to podcast national NAACP proceedings.

So, the question is: What the fuck do you want from us?

[Jamastiene]

112. "Culture of Deviancy" ???

does that even mean? Can you explain what you mean by that? It sounds like a nasty insult to me.

[RadicalGeek]

73. So there can be a dialog

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 09:34 PM - Edit history (2)

I think the point that's being missed in this is that there are destructive elements within the black community that are sometimes, perhaps too often ignored. Barkley as Mr. Lemon said, expressed something in public that is said in private.

Now what Barkley forgets is that there are elements OUTSIDE the black community that are profiting from a lot of this. I, for example, believe the whole "Gangsta Rap" trend of the 1990s was in RESPONSE to and out of a fear of the message groups like Public Enemy, X-Clan and KRS-ONE were putting out.

(And I'm starting to think that race-based dialogs, DU and I do NOT mix well )

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

79. There's ALREADY a dialogue. As many of us have stated ad nauseum...

Black people have been tackling these issues for decades now. This is just one of many issues that we are addressing in our community.

Barkley is making the issue into a problem--A MAJOR PROBLEM.

It is not a major problem.

It's not that you, race-based dialogues and DU don't mix; the issue is that you are attempting to dictate to others the terms of debate. That whites do this is annoying for many blacks because whites do not have to deal with these issues. We do. It seems that some whites are so passionate about blacks chastising other blacks for their enjoyment, aggrandizement, and making them feel better about their sense of racial superiority. Most black people understand this, hence why we typically tend to deal with these issues within our own community.

Look at this another way:

Whites do not demand that Hispanics address each other in this way for their problems. The Hispanic community is dealing with similar issues--out-of-wedlock births; teenage pregnancies; crime and gang violence; academic underachievement, and a host of other social and economic challenges.

And yet, as a group, whites are not condescending towards the Hispanic community the way they are towards the black community. They do not demand that Hispanic leaders publicly denounce their community in public forums for their approval. They do not demand that Hispanic leaders and Hispanic/Latino-based organizations address certain problems in the Hispanic community the way THEY (white people) see fit or else they're not adequately addressing the issue.

I find it absolutely offensive and appalling when white people treat us this way.

And note: I should not have to include a disclaimer reassuring that I'm not talking about ALL white people--just those who are demanding that blacks act and do things a certain way, a way that they see fit. Absolutely not! You do not get to tell us how to run our lives or what to do. You do not get to demand anything of our leaders, our organizations, or our people. Slavery is over! We no longer have to obey white folk. We no longer have to jump when they say jump.

That other minority groups aren't treated this way; aren't spoken down to in this way and are treated with dignity and respect should be concerning to everyone who claims that they care about race relations in this country.

The fact that I'm even reading this crap on Democratic Underground is a sad reminder that even on a so-called liberal/progressive, forum dedicated to Democratic Party values, there is still racial insensitivity; there is still this "God Complex" exhibited among some white folk who should be more enlightened on these issues. All of this is truly disturbing and very sad.

So when white and black conservatives point to the Democratic Party and accuses it of mistreating the black community, don't think we don't know this. We do. It's just that we decide rationally that the Democratic Party can be changed from within. And one day, it will be.

[kwassa]

88. Your commentary is fantastic.

I love this. You hit the nail on the head, repeatedly. I bolded a couple of statements that struck me as bottom-lines.

It's not that you, race-based dialogues and DU don't mix; the issue is that you are attempting to dictate to others the terms of debate. That whites do this is annoying for many blacks because whites do not have to deal with these issues. We do. It seems that some whites are so passionate about blacks chastising other blacks for their enjoyment, aggrandizement, and making them feel better about their sense of racial superiority. Most black people understand this, hence why we typically tend to deal with these issues within our own community.
.................................

You do not get to tell us how to run our lives or what to do. You do not get to demand anything of our leaders, our organizations, or our people. Slavery is over! We no longer have to obey white folk. We no longer have to jump when they say jump.
...................................

The fact that I'm even reading this crap on Democratic Underground is a sad reminder that even on a so-called liberal/progressive, forum dedicated to Democratic Party values, there is still racial insensitivity; there is still this "God Complex" exhibited among some white folk who should be more enlightened on these issues. All of this is truly disturbing and very sad.

[bravenak]

81. Gangsta rap was not invented by corporations or as a response to message groups.

They are different elements of a type of music. They are all messages if we listen closely enough. Rap is story telling set to music. The story may be harsh or hard or scary or proud, grateful, angry, blessed, but it is just a way of pouring out your story or stories you know. Everyone has a different story to tell and the tell it their own way.

We don't need the chastisement or the assistance of white people to tell us how to behave. They still haven't solved their own issue of destructive racism, there has been nothing in America more destructive to the black people as is white racism. Pointing fingers to us and our culture is a easy out for white people. They don't have to fix their own destructive racism until we act right. They can give themselves excuses to continue the practices that they have known and loved and used against us for centuries. And if they can get us to despise each other in some classist manner, they will keep us fighting with each other over how to be acceptable negroes, and telling us that once we fix that, then they will LET us be equal.

No more. We are done trying to please the sensibilities of the majority, to soothe their egos that tell them that THEY are the standard that WE need to model ourselves after. That in order to be accepted we need to lose ourselves, chastise each other, speak their way, dress to please them.

No. Fix yourselves.

[JI7]

98. most white people voted for BUsh, look at ignorant ass Rick Perry as Governor

why not lecture white people for supporting ignorant people for leadership positions ?

so standards for some young uneducated black kid is higher than white adults in leadership positions ?

[BKH70041]

46. Interesting Radio Conversation

It's seems the biggest objection to what Barkley said wasn't whether it was true or not, but that it didn't need to be said in public. I would disagree, it does need to be made public.

If we're going to be "one nation, one family," then knowing the needs, problems, desires, etc... of different communities is something that we all need to be aware. And I realize it could be embarrassing to some, and that part needs to be considered, but what communities don't have their own issues with which they deal? Who is anyone to point and say "this group should be embarrassed and I have no issues?" Baloney, you have issues, too. I have issues. We all do. Don't be embarrassed. Others who have been there before can help, so you in turn can help others.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. We don't need or want your help. How can white people demand that black folk lift

themselves up by their own bootstraps and get themselves together, while at the same time...

Assert that THEY want to help them do that?

No, thanks! We got it from here.

[JustAnotherGen]

54. Can we have an honest discussion

Why won't white Americans acknowledge all of the things Tim Wise says about White Privilege?

Why won't white people address their divorce rates, meth heads, sexual abuse, wife beating, drunk driving, teen pregnancy and this recent thing where young white men just give up on trying to achieve anything directly out of high school. Look at Liberal Stalwarts links in this thread on education. .

I guess - I'd like the DOMINANT culture which makes up the racial majority in America to own their shit, address their shit, and tell us NON whites EVERYTHING you've done wrong to yourselves.

I just think it's fair that white America has to start telling us everything wrong with them first.

[BKH70041]

62. I don't have an answer for you.

But I agree with you " divorce rates, meth heads, sexual abuse" wherever it may be happening needs to be addressed. To me this is a "we need to open up and lean on each other" kind of thing.

But this is not the first time someone like Barkley has opened up about these types of things (I'm talking generically talking about problems within their communities, not just specific to AA's) and it's the conversation of the day or week, and then the topic is dropped until someone who has a name does it again. I suspect that's the case here. too.

It's really going to come down to individuals. I would bet that you and I could sit down privately and have meaningful conversations on any number of topics that would be unproductive if it were aired out in the open. Too many people seem to want to intentionally mis-hear what you say and mean and try and place you into a "gotcha" situation. So on some level, I understand the reason the people on the radio were saying it didn't need to be said in the open. I just think it's a shame it's that way.

Take Care.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

89. Why is it a shame? I'm sincerely trying to understand this reasoning from white folk...

Seriously, why is it a shame that black people do not chastise the black community in public--wait, in front of white people?

And then answer this:

Why don't white people apply these same standards to other communities that experience similar challenges? Why don't whites go to the Hispanic community, address Hispanic leaders, and ask their leaders why they don't publicly denounce, ridicule, chastise and/or condemn the segment of their population that has contributed to fairly high rates of poverty, unemployment, out-of-wedlock/teen pregnancies, broken marriages, academic underachievement, crime, etc.?

Then address this:

Why don't whites ever acknowledge all the advances made by both the black and Hispanic communities despite systematic, institutionalized racism and discrimination--a justice system that allows for disparate treatment when it comes to arrests, sentencing, etc.

Why must we have these discussions in public?

And be honest. Is it because white people want to feel better about being racists? Is that it?

[JustAnotherGen]

105. I think the Liberals

At least in regards to the Latino/Hispanic vote feel they have to court them - So they won't do or say anything to offend. George Lopez and Gabriel Inglesias can do it - but they are the only ones.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

109. The white liberals have to court our votes, too. White people, period, have pushed on this

issue. George Lopez does this through humor, much like black comics do.

But I don't hear ANY white person--liberal, moderate, or conservative--make such demands on this community, and they face very similar challenges, if not WORSE than we do.

However, other than the immigration issue, there is never a blanket condemnation of their race. There are demands these types of demands made on them.

[Major Hogwash]

55. Just where is this Black Community so I can hear how they discuss this in Black America?

Damn!! I wonder if there are any Native American Indians here in America that can relate to that comment!

[JustAnotherGen]

67. You can throw the mic now

Either that or we need to bring back the DUZY!

[bravenak]

63. I don't need Charles as a role model.

He has embarrassed the black community quite enough already. He plays right into racial stereotypes of black men, and now he has the audacity to be judgmental of others. He seems like a Tea Partier.
Remember when he got drunk, ran a stops sign while driving under the influence (dangerous!), because he was trying to get a prostitute into his car? Why is he talking shit? http://deadspin.com/5121873/charles-barkley-i-was-gonna-drive-around-the-corner-and-get-a-blow-job-

[JustAnotherGen]

66. Damn you for this!

[bravenak]

69. I couldn't help myself!

He started it!! Such a hypocrite! See what he said to the cop to try to get out of it? Smh.

[JustAnotherGen]

70. Charles Barkley Quote - I was going to drive around the corner

And get a blow job.


That's like the guy that tells the cop he only drives fast when he's been doing cocaine.

[bravenak]

72. And he calls people 'unintelligent'.

I liked how he offered to tattoo one of the cop's names on his ass if it would get him out of the DUI. Mutha done lost his mind! For Charles, a candle.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

93. Oh, shit! How could I ever forget this? Charles Barkley is a fucking idiot!

He has the nerve to talk down to us?

Now we know he's a fucking conservative. They specialize in hypocrisy: condemn blacks on one side of their mouths for "lacking morals," then exploit the mouths of prostitutes!

That DUers would side with this clown regardless of what he says is a fucking tragedy!

[bravenak]

94. Some people side with whomever is chastising black people that day, especially if the guy is black.

It's like that thing where the overseer on the plantation would get a black slave foreman to beat the slaves that stepped out of line. That's how I describe this phenomena. The Foreman syndrome. Tgat's what Charles is infected with, Ben Carson too, Bill Cosby, etc. they get kudos from the man for keeping the rest of us in line and bringing out our children every so often for a public verbal beatdown.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

95. I like that analogy: The Foreman Syndrome. I hope you won't mind me referring

to that in advance.

[bravenak]

96. Feel free to use anything I say on here.

I get food for thought from DU. It really help me see into the minds of others who think crazy thoughts.

[Number23]

111. And don't forget Kanye West comparing being stalked by the papparazi to the Civil Rights Movement

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/06/kanye-paparazzi-civil-rights_n_5654270.html

All of these no-account Negroes need to be left on some island somewhere and forgotten about forever. To call them "out of touch" is a woeful understatement.

[bravenak]

113. The bling has blinded Kanye's ass!

All he can see is the spotlight. He sure does think mighty highly of himself. I wish his Mama was still here. He needed her support and guidance. Poor thang.
Let's not forget that white people do the civil rights comparison thing too. Remember Snowden as Rosa Parks or something stupid like that. He was Paul Revere too. I laughed all summer.

[Number23]

114. Oh my God, I have had the EXACT same thought about Kanye!! He lost a big part of himself

and apparently his mind when his mom died. I had so much sympathy for him for a long time but stuff like this has got me rolling my eyes at him every time I see him. And now that fool has married Kim Kardashian. Transformation is now complete.

Remember Snowden as Rosa Parks or something stupid like that. He was Paul Revere too. I laughed all summer.

Girl, I was too busy trying to keep my eyes from rolling onto the floor to laugh at that foolishness. The comparisons were too stupid and inane to even get too upset over, as were the posters here MAKING those comparisons.

[bravenak]

115. I loved Paul Revere summer, as I now call it.

I cracked myself up writing posts and deleting them. DU was in a frenzy!

I decided to stop paying so much attention to entertainers until they decided to entertain me. I am loving how Stacy Dash is the next project of the right. They treat her like the epitome of black thought. Sad.

[BronxBoy]

116. Kanye's crazy

as hell.

[Jamaal510]

123. Compared the paparazzi to Civil Rights...

When will he stop putting his foot in his mouth? I'm ashamed to even have the same zodiac sign as him.

[kwassa]

86. Charles Barkley is a loudmouth with an incoherent political viewpoint

He has a huge sense of self-importance, without any particular credentials to expertise on those subjects, outside basketball, that he opines on.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

97. That just about sums it up!

[JustAnotherGen]

124. Um kwassa I have a question for you

Who is 'name removed' and why does he keep showing up at the DU?

on your comments here!

[kwassa]

125. I have no idea! By the time I see him, he is gone.

I think I have a fan, though.

[JustAnotherGen]

126. I think a lot of us do!