"Vladimir Putin Is The Leader Of the Moral World — Paul Craig Roberts"

[The Magistrate]

Just in case anyone is still inclined to take this paleocon wing-nut seriously, I thought I would share this comedy gold....

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/10/25/vladimir-putin-leader-moral-world-paul-craig-roberts/

"Vladimir Putin’s remarks at the 11th meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club are worth more than a link in my latest column. These are the remarks of a humanitarian political leader, the like of which the world has not seen in my lifetime. Compare Putin to the corrupt war criminal in the White House or to his puppets in office in Germany, UK, France, Japan, Canada, Australia, and you will see the difference between a criminal clique and a leader striving for a humane and livable world in which the interests of all peoples are respected."

"No one can read Putin’s remarks without concluding that Putin is the leader of the world.

In my opinion, Putin is such a towering figure that Washington has him marked for assassination. The CIA will use one of the Muslim terrorists that the CIA supports inside Russia. Unlike an American president, who dares not move among the people openly, Putin is not kept remote from the people. Putin is at ease with the Russian people and mingles among them. This makes him an easy target for the CIA to use a Chechnya terrorist, a Jihadist suicide bomber, or the traditional “lone nut” to assassinate Putin.

The immoral, wicked, and declining West is incapable of producing leadership of Putin’s quality. Having defamed Putin, assassinating him will cause little comment in the Western media. "

[SidDithers]

1. He's also a white-nationalist shitbag, and promoter of hate site VDARE...

Yet he still has his fans at DU.

I wonder if they'll show up in this thread to defend PCR.

Sid

[The Magistrate]

4. I Am Wearily Familiar With His Record, Sir

You might as well cite the wit and wisdom of Pat Buchanan and David Duke as this fellow....

[NightWatcher]

2. The he needs to drive his happy ass to the airport and head east.

Don't let the door hit you....

[treestar]

3. Seriously nutbars only need apply

for followers of this guy.

[spanone]

5. Obama's a war criminal? who knew?

[pampango]

6. Mr. Putin is quite popular with the far-right in Europe as well as our fundamentalist wackos.

Far-right parties are set to do well in next month’s elections to the European Parliament, a fact that has thrown a spotlight on their links with the Kremlin. A recent study by the Budapest-based Political Capital Institute documents the support that far-right parties in the EU have given to Russian President Vladimir Putin, particularly throughout the Ukraine crisis. These parties repeated the Kremlin’s line that it is the EU and the West, rather than Russia, which are provoking tension and fueling violence in the Eastern European country.

Several far-right politicians went to observe the Crimea referendum on re-joining Russia, a vote they said was free and fair although it was denounced as illegitimate by most Western leaders. Among those that went were politicians from far-right or populist parties in Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France and Hungary.

Hungary’s Jobbik and Greece’s Golden Dawn are both invited to the Russian National Forum organised by a group with close ties to Putin to be held later this year. Admiration for Putin also extends to Europe’s softer right-wing. Nigel Farage, leader of the eurosceptic UK Independence Party, has openly backed Putin as a skillful "operator".

Amid the controversy and debate about the state of EU-Russia relations, Marine Le Pen, leader of France’s National Front, headed to Moscow for the second time this year. ... During the visit Le Pen asserted her support for Russia in the Ukrainian crisis, blaming the EU for declaring a new "cold war on Russia”.

http://euobserver.com/eu-elections/123887

[greatauntoftriplets]

7. I'm surprised that Roberts is able to write coherently...

with his head stuck so far up Putin's ass.

[SidDithers]

55. Best reply in the thread...

Sid

[DetlefK]

8. Oh boy. You do not want to bring up "Chechnya" and "Putin" in the same sentence.

[The Magistrate]

9. True, Sir: Kind Of Slip There....

About what one would expect, though, of a nativist right-winger blinded by the light of a foreign fascist.

[KoKo]

10. It was a cleverly crafted speech, Sir. Well written and delivered.

That's the beauty of watching the whole thing...or of reading it in transcript, if there's one available.

What I want to know is.... who wrote it?

It was certainly designed to cause a stir.

[The Magistrate]

13. Still, Ma'am, It Hardly Justifies This Gush

Putin is a fascist, a competent one, mind, but still nothing more than a fascist fronting for a kleptocratic gang of oligarchs. I am sympathetic to the argument that this is, at bottom, a description of just about any government in some degree, but that is hardly an argument in the favor any particular example, relative to another. This effusion would be embarrassing to the chapter president of an Elvis fan club.

[geek tragedy]

11. Some fake leftists have demonstrated an affinity for this miscreant

The man is David Duke without the gravitas.

[SidDithers]

65. It's strange the way some "leftists" hate David Duke, or Pat Buchanan...

but think PCR is just fine.



Sid

[CJCRANE]

12. That article is totally over the top.

But he mentions some interesting things in his previous article.

Also, it's worth bearing in mind:

Where did the monolithic media demonization of Saddam Hussein get us?

Where did the monolithic media demonization of Gadaffi get us?

Where did the monolithic media demonization of Assad get us?

What will happen when Assad is gone? What is our record on nation building?

What will happen when Putin is gone?

What is the endgame here except more chaos?

[The Magistrate]

14. Chaos Is The Natural State, Sir: No One Has To Foment It

[CJCRANE]

15. Chaos wasn't present in Libya, Iraq or Syria

before our intervention (and with a lot of help from our allies).

Chaos arises when you destroy order.

[The Magistrate]

16. Chaos Was Always Lurking Underneath, Sir

In all those countries, what order existed was maintained by despotic rule of a quite cruel nature.

All of the places mentioned were inherently unstable. Iraq and Libya were colonial districts cobbled together from disparate elements, which regarded one another with hostility. Syria's ruling faction is a small ethnic and religious group bitterly resented by the predominant portion of the population. Sooner or later things would have broken out, even in Iraq. In fact, in Libya and Syria they did break out, and the fantasy the risings there began as concoctions of Western intelligence agencies has no grounding in reality. It can be argued that once they began, there might have been a better policy than military support in one instance and a hands-off attitude while allowing regional players their heads in another, but that is a different question.

[brentspeak]

20. Iraq would not have come apart at the seams

Had Saddam and his clan been left alone. Despot that he was, Saddam was the only thing keeping Iraq from spiraling out of control. And it can be argued that Saddam's overthrow enabled the chaos in Syria.

[The Magistrate]

21. Not At The Time We Invaded, Sir, No

But whether that would have held past his death, or past some coup plotted by an over-eager heir or an ambitious general, or a Shia rising fostered by Iran is not clear. Things held together by despotism are not durable over long runs.

[KoKo]

24. When we get release from our own Oligarchs....perhaps we have credibility...

Our current "Democratic Republic" has MSM,MIC and Supreme Court ruling in "Citizens United" now allowing any and everyone who has sufficient wealth and influence (even Dark Money from foreign countries) now attempting to buy our State's Judicial Candidates, Senate and House Candidates--along with fronting the Wall Street Bankers who have caused chaos at home and in the world markets with their unrelenting greed in search for power and the resulting criminality for which they've not been held accountable.

The destabilization which our "American Exceptionalism/Bringing Freedom & Democracy" is causing in the ME and Africa and now the Neocon's quest in Ukraine would hardly seem to show our benevolent nature. It's WE who have been setting a bad example to others as to how to behave. We are in danger of chaos ourselves and we are short steps from being run by a Despot like Christie, Rubio, Cruz or a Dynasty like Bush, Bush, Clinton, Clinton.

Do you deny that Wall Street/MIC isn't a factor in our invasions or our support for toppling countries that our Global and Domestic Oligarch's have an interest in?

--------------------


"Dark Money and Hardball Politics Turning State Judicial Campaigns Into Auctions"--

"Brennan Center for Justice" Report

“Special interest groups continue to dump money into state Supreme Court races in an attempt to stack the deck in their favor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025725880

[The Magistrate]

25. Credibility For What, Ma'am?

We behave as most great powers have through history. It does not mean lesser powers who behave in the same way are any better. Putin is an obvious fascist autocrat, and an imperialist. It does not alter this to say the U.S. is an imperialist power, with one major political party at least that can honestly be considered fascist.

[KoKo]

60. You Have Given Up..Do the Meme...(There's nothing we Can Do...it's Gone on Forever)

There are those who want "A CHANGE"........we are not Misguided...because "Those Who Want Change" will always Challenge...(Those who Caution) ...It's "Always Gone On"...Nothing to See Here .....Just Move Along ...It's History in Progress)

SO......GIVE UP.....!

Very Defeatist Attitude, Sir. Although, I've always felt your HEART was With the Radicals...your Career (unknown to me) has always seemed a bit: "Self-Defeatist."

Never Give Up.......for TRUTH OUT. And, always "Listen to the Other Fellow" because one never knows what will resonate with the "Masses." Surprises Do Occur." And, Often they Come Out of Nowhere!

There's that........

And, there are those who believe, strongly.........There is THAT...which is the Alternative.

I am not a "Self Defeatist that Chaos is the RULE."

So......but, always appreciate your "Counter Opinion."

[The Magistrate]

61. You Will Seldom See Me Cite A WWII Japanese General As An Illustrator Of Wisdom, Ma'am

But I have long found this story instructive. At a strategy discussion in the early days of victory, when fresh invasions were being contemplated, the man ( I have long forgotten his name ) stood and said 'The tea in this cup represents our strength.' Then he dashed it out on the wooden floor. 'You see it only goes so far.'

Fights must be chosen, and choice should be guided by both what is at stake and whether success can be achieved. This is necessary, because there is a limit to strength, to energy.

The matter of Ukraine is not a fight worth making, certainly not if cast as a fight against imperialism and aggression, and definitely not if these are taken to be attributes only of the West, of U.S. and E.U. policy. The flash-point of hostilities there is that Russia refuses to leave go of a former colony, which it wishes to hold in dependent status, in part in hopes it can be recaptured into satellite orbit. It would better suit financial powers in the West, possibly, to incorporate Ukraine into the E.U. sphere, perhaps as a labor pool, including skilled labor at lower wages. Viewed on the largest scale, it is a fight between two imperialisms over who will get the benefit of exploiting the place and its people. It is by no means a fight between a demon and an angel. The conduct of Russia, which has been to invade Ukraine, first in the Crimea, and then to create an armed secessionist movement based on Russian special forces operatives, and to back these by further invasion, cannot be taken lightly. I am utterly unmoved by bleats of 'CIA coup' and 'Nazis in Kiev', not because I think the U.S. has never arranged coups nor because I think Kiev's armed forces do not include a number of people I would consider best euthanized as a public health measure. I am utterly unmoved by them because they are quite beside the point. The thing of greatest importance here is the use of military force in Europe by one sovereign state to seize territory from another sovereign state. This is a matter of serious importance; it is deeply destabilizing and threatens the peaceful order that has held more or less in Europe since the final spasms of WWII. Russia is, in fact, acting exactly as the fascist powers did in the thirties, and from a similar calculation: Russian leadership is certain the West will not oppose them with military force, and that the only check on what they can do is their own ambition and appetite, because they are virile and strong and the West is decadent and weak. The idea that 'NATO threatens Russia', or even that 'the U.S. wants war with Russia', though staples of Russian propaganda, and bread and butter for a certain strain of leftists, does not connect to the reality of the situation at any point.

For people on the left to take events in Ukraine today as a place to pitch a fight, and a place to pitch a fight against the U.S. and E.U. and NATO, ranged alongside Russia in struggle, is foolish to the point of insanity. The idea that Russia today is morally superior to the United States, that it is a leading light for progress and ought to be heeded as a guide, is quite simply bizarre. To believe that supporting fascist Russia in its imperialist venture in Ukraine is opposing imperialism and fascism and protecting peace and order in the world is positively delusional.

[KoKo]

63. How can we go after Russia when our Invasions/Interventions in ME/SA/etc. are Documented.

It seems a "Pot/Kettle" situation in Global USA Dominated Interventions these days. We can no long claim altruistic "Bringing Democracy and Freedom to the World" with our bloody Invasions from Korea, Vietnam, on through Afghanistan where we funded the "Rebels" to fight Russia and onto Iraq,(gruesome), Afghanistan.(to get bin Laden),involvement in Egypt supporting toppling of our Western installed Puppet, Libya..(gruesome), Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and now other African States on the pretense of "building Ebola Hospital Tents with our US Reserve Troops" and Nuland and Neocons going after Ukraine...and on and on and on and on.

This doesn't even get into how we sent our CIA and Ops into South America installing and toppling Governments there. And the Phillipines and anywhere we have a connection with WWII that we got a Military Base installed that we will protect...including Japan's Okinawa along with the rest.

YET WE ALLOWED Our "Free Trade Policy" to destroy our American Manufacturing and give it to China...so that our "Consumers" could BUY CHEAP as the BANKERS RAPED the Middle Class and Poor with Tech Bubble followed by Housing Bubble while jobs were offshored and Unions were Corrupted as the jobs left. Suckering people with Credit Card Debt by using Media to Manipulate Minds...so they bought houses, cars, stocks all on "promises" by clever marketers that the Bubbles would Never End...and using Credit Debt as a way to lure anyone they could find into the Debt Trap ....knowing there wouldn't be job growth or income raises in the low level Service Work Jobs that were taking the place of high paying Union Jobs...that were shipped overseas while we brought in HB 1 Visa Tech's from Other Countries to displace our OWN TECH Workers during the Internet Boom!

Ship the Manufacturing Out.......and the jobs go....and then people will be happy Serving Burgers and Paying Off their Debt.

I could go on......but, you are aware of this.

I stand by what I said to you.

It is "Pot/Kettle," (you are old enough to know the phrase). As to whether Russia or the West is the Worse.

[CJCRANE]

66. And the MSM and neocons make it all about personalities.

Saddam/Gadaffi/Assad/Putin is this, that and the other.

It's the politics of demonization, which makes it easy to ignore the actual facts and issues.

And the MSM does the same thing to Obama and other Democrats and yet many here trust the MSM.

[jeff47]

27. Chaos was already present

The dictatorships created an illusion of order by directing chaos towards those they disliked.

[CJCRANE]

28. Did you support the Iraq invasion

the air campaign in Libya and arming the rebels in Syria?

[The Magistrate]

29. Do You Support Wholesale Torture And Murder Of Political Dissidents, Sir?

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

The thing works both ways, you know....

[CJCRANE]

31. I do not support attacking countries that are not a direct threat to us.

There are worse regimes than the ones previously mentioned, some of which are our allies.

[The Magistrate]

38. Not Much Of An Answer, Sir, When You Think About It....

I understand you do not like the question, but it as quite as appropriate as your refrain.

[CJCRANE]

50. I don't support torture by any country including Russia if that's your point. nt

[The Magistrate]

52. Perhaps Not, Sir

But when someone suggests breaking a government which routinely tortures, you can generally be relied on to scoff, to suggest that person is at best misguided and at worst an active tool of evil trying to dupe others into war. So you often do defend torturers or at least some torturers, as a matter of practical fact. Mind, I do not attach too much importance to this demonstration, and indulge in it only as an illustration of the weakness of the tactic you take in argumentation, of routinely demanding whether people support this or that thing which you think wrong and immoral and heaven knows what else: you do not stand on solid ground when you do, in most instances, and certainly are not in undisputed possession of the moral high ground.

[CJCRANE]

53. You make some good points

and I admire your prodigious rhetorical skills but it's obvious that your use of them sometimes comes across as disingenuous.

I supported President Obama's previous policy of cooperation with Russia to reduce nuclear weapons and remove Syria's weapons. I was hoping for more of that kind of thing to enhance global stability. I have no personal interest in Putin or Russia (it's too cold for me there for a start).

As for torture, I'd like to see the CIA torture report released.

[jeff47]

30. Iraq no

Libya and Syria yes.

The borders in the Middle East and North Africa were arbitrarily drawn by Europeans. The only thing anchoring those lines were brutal dictatorships.

After we destabilized Iraq, we started the inevitable drive towards moving those borders to align with natural boundaries. The best we can do is try and steer events so that the lines are drawn in the least-brutal manner possible. Which means picking sides in all the conflicts that arise from the invasion of Iraq - and why invading Iraq was super fucking stupid.

If we don't, then there will be massive genocides as the "wrong" people are eliminated from each state.

And if you think Libya and Syria are bad, wait until the Kurds want to break a chunk off Turkey. That is going to be a very unpleasant situation.

[CJCRANE]

32. I don't think it's our job to destabilize sovereign countries

but I'm obviously in the minority here.

[jeff47]

33. Reading. It's good to do sometimes.

Perhaps you should actually read the reason why I said invading Iraq was "super fucking stupid".

Nah, much better to pretend to be morally superior.

[CJCRANE]

35. You said "yes" for Libya and Syria.

I supported the R2P campaign in Libya at the time but think it was a neocon inspired intervention now. I don't trust Hollande or Cameron who took more of a forward role on that one.

The Syria intervention was also one that a whole bunch of other countries were determined to do from the get-go, for their own reasons.

[jeff47]

36. You should pick one. Either you didn't bother reading the Iraq parts

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 08:06 PM - Edit history (1)

or you didn't bother reading the other parts.

[CJCRANE]

37. I read it. You made some good points

but I think we and our allies made a lot of mistakes.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. OK, I might see where some might argue Putin is checking an over-aggressive US foreign policy and

by extension of that, NATO. I would counter-argue that such a claim does not fit the observed facts BUT I can see where the argument could be made.

But to claim Putin is the leader of the Moral World.

What world is this guy from?

[zappaman]

18. Bwhahahahahahahaha!

Even more of a Putin poodle than Robert Parry!
KICK!

[Cha]

40. And, that's saying something!

[Rex]

54. I think the GOP dinosaurs secretly love Putin, he

hates the same thing they hate.

[11 Bravo]

19. I wonder, is "painfully stupid" merely a figure of speech, or was ...

Mr. Roberts actually in great physical discomfort when he penned that little bit of drivel?

[The Magistrate]

23. I Would Certainly Like To Think So, Sir....

"I have to stop asking people if they're really that stupid. They take it as a challenge."

[Cha]

41. Picture this..

Spitfire http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=223218

[chrisa]

22. lol What a nutbag. I bet he has stockpiles of weapons in his basement too for when the guvuhment

comes to take his guhns away.

Poor, innocent, dear leader Putin is so oppressed! All of his critics are shills paid off by teh Zionist Western Illuminati!

[Initech]

26. Well this is no surprise considering how much the right loves fascism and dictatorships.

Even though they brand Hitler as the root of all evil, they'd secretly love to live under someone like that. That's why they love to bring up Nazi references at the drop of a hat, and they love Putin and Pinochet, just ignore the human rights violations.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

34. It's not just the right, sadly.

Several DUers have fallen for the PCR honey trap:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101689600

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4640081

[Cha]

39. Yeah, Putin and those "family values".. and who is Paul Craig Roberts?

[The Magistrate]

42. He Is A Paleo-Con Troll, Sir, Who Has Taken In A Number Of Leftists

He was a functionary in Reagan's Treasury department.

Since then, he has gone on to make noises decrying the workings of modern banking, which like most ills he attributes to the influence of Jews and Zionists, and the general decline of the dominance of 'good Anglo-Saxon stock' in the United States. Because he makes ultra-libertarian noises, and can be read on occasion as opposing any U.S. action an Isolationist of the thirties would have opposed, he has been adopted by some uncritical leftists ( including those lovable scamps at CounterPunch ), and nowadays his frequent criticism of President Obama and Democrats makes him almost irresistible to some of our 'lefter than thou' types, who are happy to overlook his white nationalist racism and background in their eagerness to epater les bourgeois....

[Cha]

43. Thank you, Magistrate.. I asked that question before I read the rest of the thread and now I

have a pretty good idea.

I can see where the "lefter than thou types" would want to grasp on to him whether he's a white suprematist or not. They long for Putin no matter what the fuck he does.. always covering his tracks. The main thing is hating "the west". Such hypocrisy.. Left with a strong twist of wingbagger.

Not a "Sir", Sir.

[The Magistrate]

45. I Apologize, Ma'am: I Already Knew That

A bit distracted today, actually....

[Cha]

48. A' ole pilikia, TM~

[The Magistrate]

59. Appreciated, Ma'am

[AndreaCG]

44. Gee, Obama is so afraid of mingling with the people

That I couldn't have possibly have had a 45 minute sit down dinner with him on 10-1-2014. It must be a figment of my imagination. And the photos of him hugging me that I'm in the process of ordering were photoshopped. And the newspapers which reported it are Obama stooges. Including the Washington Times.

[Cha]

49. You had dinner with President Obama, Andrea?! Wow!

[AndreaCG]

51. Yes Cha

I donated $5 to the DSCC and was one of two winners out of 25,000 entries. It was my mom's birthday and if there is an afterlife it was her gift to me cause she loved Obama.

[Cha]

56. Oh, you won the Political Lottery, imv.. and on your Mom's Birthday! How Sweet.. I would

have been over the Moon like you.

Sorry, didn't get back sooner.

[KamaAina]

46. This dude makes Alex Jones look sane!

[Ykcutnek]

47. The hallmark of a 21st Century extremist is adoration for Vladimir Putin. nt

[SidDithers]

57. Kick...

lets keep this on the front page for a few more days, to give the PCR fans a chance to comment.

Sid

[The Magistrate]

58. I Like The Way You Think, Sir....

[Behind the Aegis]

62. Normally I would ignore an article by PCR...

...but I like the fact you are demonstrating what a POS this Jew-hating stain is, probably one of the reasons he attracts certain people. Can't say I am surprised he is a fan of Putin. Seems he has much in common with other Putin fans.

[SidDithers]

64. Agreed...

And the PCR fans have decided to pretend this thread doesn't exist.

Strange.

Sid

[LawDeeDah]

67. K&R

[Mosby]

68. Kick.

Blast from the past.

[The Magistrate]

69. Quite A Surprise To Find Up Top In 'My Posts', Sir

Nine years. Good Lord....


"They believed nothing they could not prove, and could prove anything they believed."

[Mosby]

70. I ran across it by accident this morning

And read thru it. Thought it would be fun to kick it, given recent events. Hope your doing well, sir.