Why young homeless travelers aren't welcome in tourist cities

[Liberal_in_LA]

Joe McCabe sits on a wooden bench and calls out to two men strolling up State Street, "Have any spare change? I'm actually a traveler.".

The men continue walking, and McCabe grumbles a homophobic slur that they don't hear.

McCabe gets up from the park bench and saunters down State Street in the opposite direction. At the corner, he stretches his right arm out to a woman wearing short shorts and high heels. She grimaces and looks at her friends questioningly as she maneuvers around McCabe's hand.

McCabe continues walking as if unbothered by his encounters with these strangers.


--------------------

They're vexing to tourist-dependent spots from San Francisco to San Diego, where officials complain their gritty edge and sometimes violent tendencies intimidate locals and turn visitors off.

"They can be very aggressive and very disruptive," said San Diego City Councilman Ed Harris, who represents Ocean Beach, where homeless youth congregate on the sea wall, sleep on the beach and light illegal campfires.

Cities have tried numerous strategies to control their unruly behavior, from bombarding them with citations to hiring private security guards and installing cameras on street corners. Cash-strapped communities say they don't have the money to hire more police officers, and some doubt law enforcement is the solution anyway.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-state-street-panhandlers-20141029-story.html#page=1

[Oktober]

1. Homeless people everywhere was one of the defining characteristics of our last trip to San Francisco

It was difficult to complete a conversation without being interrupted...

[arcane1]

3. Tell me about it! I was hoping someone from SF would be interviewed in the piece.

We've had enough issues with homelessness already, without the addition of large numbers of people who arrive for that very purpose.

[Oktober]

5. I hope the city can deal with the problem...

We likely won't be back until then...

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. what area of SF? I haven't been there for years.

[arcane1]

11. Yeah, I don't even go to the touristy areas anymore, for that very reason.

Last time, we were hit up every few minutes, and by very rude, aggressive people too.

I use the Civic Center station to go to/from work, and that's become something of a crustie gathering place.

[KamaAina]

24. Many of the people who "arrive for that very purpose" are shipped in from out of state.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023521896

[arcane1]

29. Quite true!

One reason why the term "homeless" doesn't really describe much of anything.

Thanks for the link! I've heard of NYC sending repeat offenders to SF, but I don't think I was aware of the patient-dumping too

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

14. That is why our San Francisco office is in Burlingame

There are still bums there, mostly around the library, but but they aren't nearly as aggressive.

My girlfriend has been assaulted twice by SF's roaming psychopaths. I am so done with that city.

[KamaAina]

25. Now there's a wise business decision!

Move away from transportation, professional services, etc. so your middle- and upper-class employees don't have to deal with the relatively few homeless people in the Financial District, or even fewer at Mission Bay.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

27. Our clients didn't like coming into the city

I don't fault them for that, I don't either.

[CBGLuthier]

2. Because they are homophobic assholes?

We used to call "homeless travelers" tramps and hobos but OK, whatever.

[Jesus Malverde]

8. Hobos, Tramps and Bums

A hobo is a migratory worker or homeless vagabond—especially one who is penniless. The term originated in the Western—probably Northwestern—United States around 1890. Unlike "tramps"—who work only when they are forced to, and "bums"—who do not work at all, "hobos" are itinerant workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo

[JonLP24]

4. Sure some can be violent like anybody but by and large

they are just trying to make it to the next day and not interested in hurting anyone. I always hear a lot about people's fear of the bums but not what the bums fear. Now they have reason to fear.

The money they spend to watch the bums and they complain about costs to police Occupy protests.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

7. I think you make a good point.

Cities have tried numerous strategies to control their unruly behavior, from bombarding them with citations to hiring private security guards and installing cameras on street corners.

Have they tried programs to get them jobs so they're not homeless and panhandling? It would probably cost less than all those private security guards.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. This is an "alternative lifestyle" not a lack of job opportunities

[haele]

30. Some are just unlucky, mentally unstable - or are adult children acting out.

My step-daughter's first long-time boyfriend is one of latter - fairly wealthy family with Daddy issues and never learned to do anything on his own but wants to "do his own thing" - which doesn't include working or maintaining a schedule. Because "that's what Daddy did" and he doesn't want to be like the mean, angry old man who works his ass off in the family business.
So, he started hanging out with his social peers with similar issues, and they just move from neighborhood to neighborhood, town to town, couch-surfing, drinking, smoking, busking and/or panhandling, calling mommy on the sly for a temporary remittance to be blown on beer and drugs, or carrying for gangs. We kicked him out after he stole money and trinkets to pawn from us and called the cops on him when we found he was trying to cash some of our checks.

These are the bums - tend to get very aggressive if they see someone they think has money and won't give to them. And they tend to hang out around stores and banks and especially bother the elderly or weaker looking people.

They're totally different from the homeless, like the couple who lived in a tent in the canyon behind out behind the house we were renting at the time. The husband had been in construction and was semi-disabled because he had been a "self-insured" contractor that wasn't eligible for worker's comp or disability. Our washer and dryer were out on the back porch - which they had permission to use, and they "borrowed" water from our backyard faucet and produce from our garden - especially the fruit trees. Occasionally they'd find a covered container with "leftovers" that didn't need refrigeration or cooking - like a tupperware with enough smoked meat to last a day or two, or part of a large loaf of sourdough and peanut-butter. In return, they policed the canyon, which kept down the rats and kept them in recycling.
That couple worked their asses off on three or four part-time minimum wage jobs and pay for his medical bills and medicine - and just couldn't get enough saved up to rent even a monthly lease cold-water studio (i.e., communal bath at the end of the hall) that averaged around $550 a month - and the shelters would separate a man and wife couple. Give one of that pair a good paying job with medical, and they'd be off the street in a heartbeat.

Homelessness is a tricky situation, and there is no one-size-fits-all. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix it or give up just because there's not a sound-bite "all we have to do is this" solution. What it does indicate is that we shouldn't look at homelessness and "begging" as simple problem where a wand of "money" or some sort of magical job training or social service can fix. Frankly, there is simply not enough money for the bums to want to get off the street, and not enough stable, good paying jobs available for an increasing number of working people to create careers that will support a retirement out of.
We need to listen without our biases coloring the situations, and have several merciful as well as just strategies that work with several different types of issues before we can "fix" most of the issue.

More jobs would be nice, but there are a lot of homeless out there who are struggling for jobs that aren't panhandling, and frankly, the "job" a beggar or homeless person is going to be offered is retail or something similar to day labor. Very few are going to be offered jobs that either pay well enough or are stable enough to allow them to function in a capitalistic society. The middle tier of jobs are getting squeezed out either above or below; and with at least five people applying for pretty near any job that might pay minimum wage, employment at the lower end is going to be a major issues in the coming years unless we as a supposedly enlightened society can get a handle on what it actually means when we discuss work and "recreation" - especially since more and more people will find themselves without meaningful "work" - as in, can art be legitimate work? Can simply bringing pleasure and furthering knowledge just through a hobby or study or other interest be just as important to society as being a doctor or other professional? Do we need f***ing metrics or "production performance metrics" to assign value?) and separate the stranglehold the God of Money has over labor and capital.

Now, re-thinking sustainable and dignified housing for people without resources is a good start - housing for transients or seasonal workers who prefer a "free" lifestyle, housing for the working poor and their families who need an address, housing for the elderly and/or disabled who need a secure roof over their heads and support to function independently...
Housing without strings, other than "clean up after yourself and be a good neighbor".
Because more and more of the working class are not going to be able to afford a roof over their heads, as jobs transition through technology and "market forces", and more and more of modern life becomes both monetized and tracked, the minimum wage, lower "value" work will never be.

Haele

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. excellent post.

We need to listen without our biases coloring the situations, and have several merciful as well as just strategies that work with several different types of issues before we can "fix" most of the issue. .

[scarystuffyo]

9. When they start to intimidate they cross the line

I had one while stopped in traffic approach my window and ask for money
Many times I have given money when I have some but others time I don't have any.

When I'm asked " why not" from a homeless person to me that's intimidation

They can be very aggressive if they feel they can scare you.

[closeupready]

10. Cities are not museums - they are imperfect, living spaces.

Homelessness and those who are homeless reflect the problems of larger society. Believe it or not, Paris has always had a significant number of homeless people. Yet, it has always appealed to people who actually like cities and people. Go figure.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. The Paris police beat the shit out of anyone harassing tourists

I had a bum harassing me near the convention hall in Villepinte and two cops threw him to the ground pretty brutally

[closeupready]

22. Villepinte is a suburb, and that's a different jurisdiction,

not Paris. At any rate, it's been a long time since I was there, but you'll encounter lots of gypsies and arabs and young French people in Paris who have fallen on hard times or who are, for whatever reason homeless. France makes some accommodations for the poor (like subsidies for food, public housing), but in any society, you're always going to have some homeless people who fall through the cracks.

This notion (from the article) that the homeless in California/West Coast cities should be treated as disposable offends me.

[Brickbat]

12. Can't people just ask each other harmless questions on the street?

Are they going to outlaw strangers talking to each other? Why can't people who live in those cities just ignore them, or tell them to fuck off? I've never seen anything like this. How can people ask each other for help if they aren't allowed to approach strangers?

/derail
(Sorry, Liberal_in_LA, couldn't help myself. Not directed at you.)

[scarystuffyo]

13. Maybe that would work if you're a guy or a young woman

That's not always easy to do as an elderly person

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. I suggest you cross-post this question to HoF

[Comrade Grumpy]

33. Heh.

[AngryAmish]

15. Wicker Park in the summertime.

Looks like a neutron bomb went off in the early money. Scruffies sleeping everyone.

[hunter]

16. Nobody should be homeless.

A generous welfare system that recognizes the problems of the mentally ill and young people rejected by their families because of their sexual orientation, addictions, or religious intolerances would eliminate most of these problems. I'm lucky my family doesn't reject anyone, not even my crazy grandma who had to be removed from her home by force because she was a danger to herself and others. My mom thought she had all of grandma's guns before the police and paramedics arrived to drag grandma away kicking, clawing, cussing and biting, but we found some guns afterwards. Thank God grandma hadn't remembered where she'd hidden her guns in her hoarder's mess when the police knocked on her door.

I've lived in my car in a church parking lot. My head was a mess and I often had troubles finding a place to live. I can imagine the roomie vetting process. No, not that guy, he's weird. Some of my ex house mates probably have some interesting stories about me.

Some of the people I lived with were crazier than I was. I lived in a shack in the backyard of a thoroughly messed up Vietnam war veteran for nearly a year, and worked for another who'd become a hard-core pacifist.

Fortunately I was on friendly terms with the local police. I was mostly harmless and often amusing. Like the time I lost my clothes on the beach after body surfing a few hours past midnight. In the dark, a pile of clothes looks remarkably like a pile of kelp. No, I wasn't trying to drown myself. But I was stark naked when the cops shined their flashlights on me. The streaking fad was still in recent experience so it was no big deal. Help Hunter find his clothes and take him home. Laugh. Cold water and mortal embarrassment shrinkage.



I'm not intimidated by homeless people and our community has plenty of them. They all have stories, some of them insane and incomprehensible, just like my crazy grandma, but there's always some kernel of truth in their stories. I digest their metaphors and complete fabrications in a very logical way. My wife and I are both the altruistic sort who listen and try to solve problems.

Every intelligent being on this earth deserves a safe place to simply BE. We are all born to this world by random chance.

[dilby]

19. Well said. n/t

[seveneyes]

17. "Their sometimes violent tendencies"

There is a solution for that. Incarceration.

[hunter]

26. America's prison industry welcomes the comments of courageous citizens such as yourself.

We won't be free until all the mentally ill homeless people are incarcerated.

[seveneyes]

28. Damn few Americans welcome violence from strangers

Those that make exceptions for senseless violence are not always victims of it.

[dilby]

18. One solution is increase social services for the homeless.

When the homeless population has access to food, housing and healthcare they are less aggressive with their pan handling. They are still there but they are not nearly as aggressive because their lives are not dependent on it. The downside to these services is it will attract more homeless which increases the costs of the services. Portland OR does a pretty good job of balancing the needs of the homeless population and keeping the city feeling safe for tourists. People here may complain about how it attracts more homeless people but if every city offered these same services it would be better for the country as a whole.

[Generic Other]

31. We know how to fix the problems

Beginning in 1935 until 1943, the WPA employed eight million Amwericans at the cost of $13.4 billion.

The WPA built "roads, bridges, schools, courthouses, hospitals, sidewalks, waterworks, and post-offices, museums, swimming pools, parks, community centers, playgrounds, coliseums, markets, fairgrounds, tennis courts, zoos, botanical gardens, auditoriums, waterfronts, city halls, gyms, and university unions. Most of these are still in use today. The amount of infrastructure projects of the WPA included 40,000 new and 85,000 improved buildings. These new buildings included 5,900 new schools; 9,300 new auditoriums, gyms, and recreational buildings; 1,000 new libraries; 7,000 new dormitories; and 900 new armories. In addition, infrastructure projects included 2,302 stadiums, grandstands, and bleachers; 52 fairgrounds and rodeo grounds; 1,686 parks covering 75,152 acres; 3,085 playgrounds; 3,026 athletic fields; 805 swimming pools; 1,817 handball courts; 10,070 tennis courts; 2,261 horseshoe pits; 1,101 ice-skating areas; 138 outdoor theatres; 254 golf courses; and 65 ski jumps...In its eight-year run, the WPA built 325 firehouses and renovated 2,384 of them across the United States. The 20,000 miles of water mains, installed by their hand as well, contributed to increased fire protection across the country" (wiki). Additionally, the Federal Art Project employed over 5,300 artists; 16,000 musicians; 12,000 performers; 6000 writers; 4000 historians.

And we have gotten a free ride off their labor ever since.

We need a government that works for its people. But we all know that.

[Jenoch]

32. I was in New Oeleans a few years ago.

Canal Street, the French Quarter, and Boubon Street are quite touristy, but I was never approached by panhandlers. The benches near the street car line on Canal Street were all humped to make it impossible to lie down on them. I have been approached downtown Minneapolis.