GamerGate anger at women all too real for gamemaker

[MADem]

This is some nasty stuff. This woman has had to go into hiding owing to the lunacy of a crew of haters.



http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/style/2014/10/29/threatening-video-gaming-industry-movement-grows-arlington-game-developer-forced-flee-her-home/BRHwDSGjMsSnHquH9jYQIJ/story.html?p1=Article_FeatureStrip

Brianna Wu, a software engineer so absorbed in her work that she considers eating a waste of time, did not want to be a cultural figure.

“I got into video games,” she said recently, “to make video games.”


But Wu was thrust into the spotlight on Oct. 9, when she tweeted what she intended as a joke. It mocked members of a shadowy and threatening gaming movement called GamerGate, ridiculing them for, among other things, “fighting an apocalyptic future where women are 8 percent of programmers and not 3 percent.”

That’s when the harassment began — a frightening online campaign threatening rape and death that forced Wu to flee her Arlington home. In the process, she became the latest of several female targets across the country — the second in the Boston area — as well as a symbol of the sexism that some say is roiling the $21.25 billion gaming industry in the United States.....

[NYC_SKP]

2. So, for speaking the truth about the numbers, and in a nice way, rape and death???

Sheesh.

I'll say what she didn't.

The fuckers in that movement who would publicly write these things deserve some serious blowback, and they'll get it.

They'll bring it on themselves.

Assholes always do.

K/R/Fuckers.

[Triana]

3. They're just another wing of the insidious American Taliban. n/t

[Fla Dem]

36. Aren't these games played on-line world wide? So not just American miscreants. nt

[Triana]

50. According to american exceptionalism, we're supposed to be better ie: racism and sexism dead

Of course we know we are absolutely not living in any past-racist or past-sexist America. We know nothing much has changed in many ways - the racism and sexism has just taken different forms.

I'm not saying I believe the exceptionalism bullshit. I don't. I'm mocking it and calling it out.

[MADem]

4. I'd like to see the blowback come in the form of criminal charges, myself.

Not just the whole "naming and shaming" flip. I think these cretins need to stand in front of a judge.

[NYC_SKP]

8. I only learned about this story for having served on the jury.

And I was like, "oh no you don't".

[MADem]

59. Seriously? Wow! And thanks! nt

[NYC_SKP]

84. It was a close one by jury but MIRT took them out.

Juries. WTF?

[ncjustice80]

104. Tea party members no doubt :/

[chrisa]

5. GamerGaters are the same crowd that is active in MRA / MGTOW movements.

They absolutely despise women - especially feminists. That's what this is really about. It's a little boys club that is actively working to keep girls out.

[MADem]

6. I know what MRA means, but MGTOW is new to me.

What does it stand for (I imagine nothing good, but the letters, I mean...)?

[chrisa]

7. It's "Men Going Their Own Way" or something like that. Same type of loser, though.

[redgreenandblue]

9. "Men go their own way" - A movement that endorses lifelong bachelorhood.

[MADem]

25. Well, that usually happens without a "movement." If ya don't meet the right person,

you don't walk the aisle! And that applies to "bachelors" as well as the less exciting-sounding "spinsters" (a word that could do with a makeover, IMO).

Sounds like a "Misery loves company" effort!

[MADem]

13. Not sure what your point is--care to elucidate? It sounds like you are saying she

Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2014, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)

has no business in the gamer game? Am I misreading your remarks?

This isn't about porn, this is about video games.

EDIT--FWIW I didn't alert on your post. I did want to hear your response.

[Lancero]

118. I think the comment was referring to...

Women who work at big name dev companies who put out games riddled with sexism.

He's saying that it's ironic for women to complain about sexist games, when women help make them.

[MADem]

142. His comments were about PORN, not sexism.

I guess it will remain a mystery.

[Sunlei]

11. Nice poster, shows the type of 'audience' the customers the game attracts.I doubt very much any game

wants their developers to use twitter to 'joke' with the customer base, 'out of character' with real personal information.

[MADem]

15. The poster depicts a game that is geared to women gamers.

And although the battle for the soul of video games is raging online, one of the real-world fronts may be Boston, which has a robust indie game scene. Locally produced games — made by women with uncommon frequency — are among the leading examples of the increasingly diverse audiences and subjects that dot today’s gaming landscape. Wu’s game, “Revolution 60,” features four female action heroes.

[Sunlei]

22. Revolution 60, had to look it up its a phone game.

personally, I don't use my cell phone for games but I know a lot of people who like them.

Most games have female characters that look similar.

[jamzrockz]

12. Gamergate in 60s

Don't petition me please.

[MADem]

14. I don't really know if the Boston Globe used too broad a brush in reporting this story, but the

bottom line is that this woman is being harassed and threatened with physical harm, and that's not right.

At this point in her ordeal, Wu is regularly forwarding incoming rape and death threats to the local police, and said she has been in communication with the FBI, the Arlington Police, Twitter, and Apple. She and her husband, Frank Wu, have been forced to pack their dogs, Crash and Kablam!, barky Bichon Frise, into their crates and escape to a safe house or hotel.

Never mind the "group" politics, anyone who threatens another person with brutal violence and death threats has issues and needs to be checked, through the justice system, if needs must--do you not agree with that simple thought?

Don't you think that people have the right to live their lives without having their personal detailed doxxed or be telephoned, stalked, threatened, etc?

I'm not suggesting you support the views of the people hassling this woman, but there is a concerted effort to silence and intimidate her--you do agree that needs to not happen, right?

[jamzrockz]

16. I think the worst thing that could ever happen

to the movement is the trolls that latched on to the movement to harass people. It has caused us to spend a lot of energy defending ourselves from it and also caused the media to focus less of the insider relationship between some indie game developers and game journalists.

I hate the harassment because these people did not deserve it and also because it has drawn attention away from the real story which is not just journalist integrity but also the disdain and disgust game journalists have for their audience.

[MADem]

17. The trolls have a different agenda--the only way to rid yourselves of them is to call them out and

repudiate them. It would seem their goal is obfuscation! They like confusing the situation to keep the chaos going.

[jamzrockz]

42. And we have been doing exactly that

even posters on the trollish 8chan have started reporting trolls that send hate messages to the women in gaming under attack. The vast majority of the people in the movement knows that in order to get our message out, we have to be start calling these assholes making rape treats out and this has been going on for a while now.

But again the media including the gaming media ignores all of this and instead settles to label the movement a hate movement.

[MADem]

53. That is a positive step, then. I'm glad you're part of the solution. You can maybe write to the

Globe and give them a bit of "inside baseball" perspective--it will fine tune their reporting. Maybe try communicating with the reporter responsible for the piece on twitter or elsewhere...?

[seaglass]

45. They really need to disassociate themselves with #gamergate. The hashtag was started by asshole

Adam Baldwin and was directly related to the non-controversy around Zoe Quinn's sex life. This is well documented. It is too late for #gamergaters to try and rehabilitate the hashtag/name.

Also Wikipedia now has a really good, well-documented history of the whole thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

[jamzrockz]

71. And what is going to

stop the trolls from joining the new hashtag and polluting it with misogyny and rate treats? Move to a new hashtag and it would kill the little momentum we have. Also Adam Baldwin is not even that active in #gamergate. And yes he came up with the name but the movement is much bigger than him now.

[el_bryanto]

18. Are the companies guilty for corrupting the process ?

Also - where does Anita Sarkeesian fit into the picture? Do you think she is corrupted by the gaming industry? She's been a key figure in this gamegate controversy, but it's hard to figure out exactly how the game companies have corrupted her.

Bryant

[Sunlei]

35. may be a tactic to get more app buys for that phone game app.

Most big games have a couple reps who interact with the customer base.
They have a lot of competition with phone game apps.

[jamzrockz]

43. I think Anita Sarkeesia and the pass the

gaming media has given her plays a lot into this frustration gamers are feeling. We know there is a lot of thing she got wrong in her critique of gaming and its connections to misogyny. But none of the big websites would touch it. When Jack Thompson attacked gamers, the gaming websites big and small were quick to our defense but for some reason they remain silent on this.

Also there is a lot of fear that the gaming industry a lot of us helped build with our time and money at a time when it wasn't popular is being taken away from us. We don't mind new people coming into gaming, what we have a problem with is people who have been on record saying the are not fans of video gaming coming in and try to change our hobby.

A lot of this is because people like Anita Sarkeesian are getting a pass from the people who should be looking out for our own interest. They are meeting video game studio while completely shutting off the whole community just people some people said hateful things to them in the youtube chat.

[seaglass]

47. You don't fucking own gaming - anyone and everyone can play. n/t

[jamzrockz]

74. Yes, nobody owns gaming

You don't see FPS shooter players trying to tell MMORG gamers or RPG or cellphone gamers or whatever type of gamers what should be tolerated in their field. Gaming is big enough for everybody. I have heard people say things like, its high time game developers stop catering to the interest of male gamers and I get worried.

Why can't they cater to everybody? a company can create games for different demographic without ignoring their core customers. Some people think gamers are over reacting but there is a real threat to young male gamers right now and they are on the defensive fighting to save a part of their hobby that they love.

[el_bryanto]

75. Those poor young male gamers - they might not be catered to 100%

How will they survive if they only have 70-80% of the games directed to them?

Bryant

[jamzrockz]

77. Why are you being so dismissive?

I don't understand you are behaving this way. Why do we have to fight for the same pie when we can easily create separate pies to satisfy everybody? We have new people coming into gaming and that means extra money. Why not use that money and create something for the new crowd while leaving the part where male gamers enjoy intact? And btw, this is what is happening right now.

Also there are now so many games of different taste coming out yearly. I don't care what your taste is, there are more than a 100 games out there for you.

[el_bryanto]

80. I am dismissive because you are turning a blind eye to what Gamergate is really about.

If you were interested in sharing the pie you wouldn't be identifying with those misogynists. Gamergate isn't about bringing new perspectives into the gaming community it's about putting barriers to keep the wrong kind of people out.

Bryant

[ncjustice80]

105. Because male gamers act like sexist assholes.

This is exactly what Sarkeesian is complaining about. I would never call myself a gamer due to its deep ties to racism and misogyny.

[AverageJoe90]

112. Racism? Really? That's going too far, man.

I'm sorry, but you can't judge an entire group, or even its label, just because of a select few(if perhaps vocal at times) assholes.....do you realize how many women are gamers, and even call themselves such?

[ncjustice80]

116. Well, considering I said "male" gamers, that would automatically preclude women.

And sorry you feel that way, but gamers create their own bad press with shit like gamergate. Play ten minutes of Call of Duty.or Halo, and its nothing but racial slurs and misogyny flying. I couldnt play those games with a mic on for more than few minutes.

Also, there are female members of Aryan Nation and the Republican party- it doesnt give a pass to those groups on being vicious racists and sexists.

[AverageJoe90]

125. Well, unfortunately, every group has it's assholes.

But you still can't tar an entire group with a single brush. I mean, since you brought out examples, let me illustrate a few of my own: there are a few black folks who've attached themselves to the Social Justice movement who are, in fact genuinely prejudiced(perhaps even racist, in the worst cases) against white folks. Does that mean that the entire S.J. movement is anti-Caucasian? No, not at all. There are also a few fringe feminists who may believe that all men are sexists and/or potential rapists. Does that mean ALL feminists think men are untrustworthy and/or bad in general? Hell no.

Hell, some Israelis think that Palestinians are all terrorist scumbags who deserve to be rounded up and shot one by one, or blown to bits by cluster bombs, etc.; does that mean that ALL Israelis are anti-Arab bigots? Fuck no.

You see my point? Gamers are diverse like anyone else. Some may be assholes, yes. But many others are not.

[ncjustice80]

144. You cant compare the social justive movement to gamers and rethuglicans.

Whatever, keeping defendingbtje #gametgaters...

[AverageJoe90]

145. You can't be serious.

Did you not bother to read what I actually said, in context? But then again, seeing as you continue to accuse me of defending GamerGate without any proof, this may be pointless, anyway.....

[kcr]

126. Sorry, but it depends. Sometimes you can.

I refuse to associate with Gamgergate because of their misogynist actions. Those who don't should be prepared to deal with those accusations because they are valid.

[AverageJoe90]

127. I'm not exactly thrilled with Gamergate either.

However, though, I'd like to point out that my reply had nothing to do with Gamergate in particular; ncjustice80 was clearly talking about gamers in general.

[kcr]

128. My apologies

I must have misread your post. No, as a gamer myself I do not think all gamers should be smeared with the actions of Gamergate.

[AverageJoe90]

131. Well, that's alright, it happens.

To be truthful, it does seem that there are some otherwise decent people out there who have tried to attach themselves to Gamergate, without knowing the entire true story behind it's origins.....which is a real shame.

[kcr]

132. I agree

[tazkcmo]

138. Dismissive

Because they're GAMES! Not real. No real consequences or rewards besides getting the personal satisfaction you could obtain by doing something worth while in REAL life. All I see is a bunch of BOYS whining that the dumb girls are ruining their tree house.

I also like games. Been playing video games since they were invented. I welcome the females that have entered the industry and have tried to call out the misogyny RAMPANT in them. Grow up boys, go outside, get some sun and maybe volunteer at the retirement community to get a REAL sense of satisfaction.

[seaglass]

78. It's high time game developers stop catering ONLY to the interests of male gamers is I bet what is

being said but that is not is what is being heard so all these gamergaters are flipping the fuck out.

There is NOTHING wrong with recognizing that the population interested in games has expanded to include all types of people. Smart game developers/companies are going to take advantage of that and avoid including offensive crap in their games.

[jamzrockz]

79. Think of it like this

if Hyundai started attracting upper income consumers, should they stop making entry level vehicles or should they continue making entry level vehicle and just open up a division for luxury class vehicles for their new customers?

This is all about hold onto what we have right now while making space for a growing audience.

[seaglass]

81. Terrible analogy. Is there something misogynist, racist or homophobic about Hyundais?

I am going to bow out of this conversation now. You have nothing to say that I haven't already heard on this topic and you seem pretty set in your POV so I'm sure there is nothing I can say to you that will change the way you think.

[jamzrockz]

83. One last thing

Gaming is not a child's cartoon or toy. Take a game like red dead redemption for example, set in the old west with realism as one of its selling point. You cannot achieve a master piece like the salon scene if you left out the small bit of misogyny in it. A point which Anita criticized to no end in her video series.

Sorry but video games are no different from movies, books or other form of entertainment art. You cannot sanitize it to appease a small minority who don't even like video games. Also I will start listening when the same is being demanded of literature, music and TV/movies.

[bobclark86]

85. "You cannot sanitize it to appease a small minority"

You know there's more women in the world then men, right? So intentionally shutting them out is a horrible business decision. Every guy who wants a console and actually has the money for one already bought this generation. Give one good reason to NOT create games that appeal to females by not degrading them horribly.

Oh, and this:
"Gaming is not a child's cartoon or toy."

Yeah, it is. That's exactly what it is. A toy.

[jamzrockz]

93. By small minority

I mean people who want to censor art to remove things that make em uncomfortable. But this is not how the world works, many women and minority are into gaming and the vast majority of them understand that the world is not made of sugar and honey. They know that sometimes bad things happen, that there are bad people in the world who hate women and every once in a while, game producers put those characters in games because they know that players want to vent their frustration at those characters.

Give one good reason to NOT create games that appeal to females by not degrading them horribly.

Those games exists now, The last of Us is an excellent one I will recommend you play. Its a game with an amazing story, amazing male and amazing and strong female lead character and guess what? It is #2 most selling game in the PS3 system.

[Sheldon Cooper]

96. "You cannot achieve a master piece like the salon scene if you left out the small bit of misogyny

in it."

Just when I think I've heard everything, something like this comes along and I'm astounded anew.

[el_bryanto]

48. Nods - so you are in favor of legitimate gamers - i.e. people who turn a blind eye to the

misogynist content of many of these games?

And when you complain about corruption, what you mean to silence is feminist critiques of the gaming community?

So while I'm sure you personally abhor the actions of those people who threaten Sarkeesian with rape or murder or murder-rape, you do agree with them that she should be silenced. You just wish it was the game reviewers who were doing it.

Bryant

[Adrahil]

159. That's a REALLY one sided view of this whole I think.

Scratch the surface of "GamerGate" discussion and you'll see some of the most hideous misogyny. I'm a male gamer who has been playing video games since the 80's and I think her criticisms are right on the money... heck I think she might be a little soft of the industry as a whole. Many male gamers (and comic book geeks, etc.) are used to a world where hypersexualization of women is routine. They don't see these tropes as sexist because they have come to accept this kind of culture as normal. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to show my daughter half the games on the market these days.

And I want to change the heavy. And I've been here longer than many of these sad-sack basement dwellers who want to see violence against women normalized and just HAVE to ogle virtual boobies all over the place. There will always be that segment, but I think it's time for this industry to grow up.

[jamzrockz]

161. I would ask you a question

Would have any reservation whatsoever showing your daughter any Zelda game? how about Mario bros? or Pacman? or maybe borderlands 2? these are the games Anita Sarkeesian has railed against. Yes, there is sexism in games but its there is no more sexism in video games than there are in movies, literature, music or even in real life. There are many well made video critiques of Anita's work on youtube. Some are so damn good, that I cannot do it any justice by trying to summarize it for you.

We can strive for better representation of everyone in video games, males, females, minorities etc can be better represented in games but we have to be very careful with our approach. You go in guns blazing, start point fingers and throwing accusations of misogyny everywhere and you will leave the room making everyone your enemy. This is doubly true for someone who is seen as an outsider

[Adrahil]

162. Actually....

Yea.... Not Pacman or Borderlands 2 ('cause we play neither), but i HAVE talked to her about how Zelda and Mario Bros BOTH perpetuate the "damsel in distress" trope. That's a kind of "soft sexism" that I feel comfortable explaining and then letting her play, but I did NOT just let it pass.

And I disagree that there is no more sexism in video games than blah blah blah. In my personal experience, video games generally are worse that many other pop culture media (except maybe comic books). Of course you can whip out examples of, say, hard core hip-hop, and I'd agree. But in my personal experience, I find that if there's a woman in a video game I'm playing, the chances are higher that she will be portrayed in some stereo-typically sexist way than in my everyday life.

And I'm not saying Anita's opinion is above criticism. Of course it's not. But when I see these so-called rebuttals (and I've seen more than a few), it's just bloody obvious to me that this is a weak-wristed attempt to deflect actual criticism of games.

Recently, I was involved in a discussion about the presentation of the female model in an up and coming game. The developers presented a model which, quite frankly, bought into some of the worst of the apologist arguments. Sure, it was a "tough" character, but the breast plate of the armor was carefully contoured to highlight the woman's breasts, and the coloration of the suit accentuated the crotch and buttocks of the model. The equivalent male model did not have similar feature. I criticized the model as being needlessly sexualized, and man, did I invite a shitstorm of criticism. People calling me a prude... a freedom hater, even declaring that I hated women and wanted them to cover up with a burka! Nope, all I wanted was a set of armor that wasn't sexed up. So yeah, I tend to see through a lot of these so-called "critiques." Not that there aren't legitimate ones out there...

And I think male gamers must admit that many representations of women in gaming suck. a LOT of male gamers don't even have the integrity to admit that. So many of them have the mentality of a 14-year-old who snuck a copy of his old man's playboy. And frankly, I think many of them learn how to interact with women as if they are characters from a Grand Theft Auto game. It's hard to take such people at all seriously.

[bettyellen]

87. Can I ask what actions decent gamers are taking to shut down the harassment? Is the community

actually concerned enough to actively work to help rid the community of these psychos? Seems like that would be a good way to spend all that energy. It would make "defending yourselves" - which helps no one but you- completely unnecessary too.

[Adrahil]

160. Well, I don't know that I can do all that much....

Except speak out against misogyny and endemic sexism when I can. And I'm not afraid of these gutless wonders making any threats against me. Those POSs are welcome to threaten me all they want.

[m-lekktor]

20. that video implies Christina Hoff Summers

can't be a conservative (which she is accused of being by many) because she is a Democrat. how lame. she is an apologist for the MRA gamer assholes.

[seaglass]

34. Really - you just came off a time out and you're posting this? The Gamergate tools have

had their lies exposed. No one is believing this crap anymore except those who haven't educated themselves.

[jamzrockz]

44. If I remained silent

the censors win. I cannot live with that in my conscience.

[seaglass]

46. Yeah. Totally not buying what you're selling. n/t

[el_bryanto]

49. Aren't you trying to silence feminist critiques of the game industry?

Isn't that a form of censorship?

Bryant

[jamzrockz]

69. For the love of God

Please stop saying that. I cannot think of something I hate more than censorship. When I was still able to be in the jury around here, I don't think I ever voted to hide a thread that contained civil discussion.

I do not want Anita or anyone critiquing gaming to be silenced. I just want gaming journalism to challenger her on her claims because I think she got it wrong. Instead just about everyone in gaming journalism takes her by her word. The only place we see any kind of challenge to her is on youtube and private blogs and she has already dismissed everything coming from youtube and blogs as harassment.

Wanting to see a dialogue about what she is saying is not censorship. Let me say it again, I DO NOT WANT ANITA SARKEESIAN TO BE SILENCED.

Less someone sees your post and decides to alert me to give another 90 day break from DU.

[el_bryanto]

72. You just want everybody to know that her critiques are illegitimate

because she's not a real gamer. She doesn't count as a real gamer because she challenges the misogynist BS that gets shoved into too many games.

The fact that you don't have an issue with how Gaming Companies have corrupted the system, but do have an issue with feminist critiques of the gaming industry gives away the game.

Bryant

[jamzrockz]

76. No, she could be a real gamer and still be wrong

But the fact that many see her as a poser adds to the frustration. Its like the people who should be protecting gamers are siding with the person who said that she doesn't like games.

Again, you say things that I have never said. I have so many issues with gaming right now to count but the problem is that there are already people challenging the game publishers and companies on those issues. Issues like the push for pre orders, silly DRM policies, payment to reviewers are being discussed by game journalism all the time. Just search Jim Sterling alone and you will see multiple articles on all the other problems I just mentioned.

But try and search for critique of Anita Sarkeesian and her documentaries calling gaming misogynist and you get almost nothing.

[Adrahil]

163. OK, after looking at your profile page....

... I see several anti-feminist rants. I gotcha. You hate feminism. Got it. I'll consider your opinion based on its value.

[Puzzledtraveller]

88. what you said!

[killbotfactory]

140. Funny how none of them men involved in GamerGate have been threatened with rape and death. nt

[jamzrockz]

148. Jack Thompson.

a man got worse treatment than Anita Sarkeesian when he tried to claim that games caused violent behavior in people. I mean every gamer I know hated him and nobody were ashamed to say it. I have no idea why some of the men trying to inject themselves into the debate have been spared. If any thing the troll doing the harassing if they really were on the side of gg could just harass them just to make it appear that women alone are not the only target of their harassment. But then again, it could just be morons who are trying to smear the movement by trying to give the public the impression that gg are misogynists.

[MADem]

153. He wasn't involved in THIS issue, though--that is a bit of mixing metaphors.

And he wasn't a game developer, a game salesman, a game financier, or involved any way in gaming culture--he was a disbarred attorney who called himself an activist. He wasn't involved in the gaming industry at all; he was complaining from the POV of a putative customer. AND...he hasn't been 'on the scene' for what--five, seven years??

I'm betting no one threatened to rape him, either!

This is a very specific matter, and it does center on issues of gender, to include gender roles and violence directed against women. It's not unreasonable, considering that far more women than teen boys are buying and using games, that the industry and culture begin to course correct towards the customer base--no matter how much "old time" gamers don't like it. They no longer have critical mass--they barely have a majority, and in a few years, they will be the minority of customers in the gamer world.

And one thing is always true in commerce--the customer is always right.

[justiceischeap]

21. This argument reminds me of the days on DU when some Democrats

said that the world had "significantly larger problems" than equality when it came to LGBT issues. It was wrong then and this comment is wrong now. You know it or you wouldn't have begged to be juried.

[marble falls]

31. This is not new for this guy:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/?az=archives&j=2655&page=0

[justiceischeap]

32. Seems like a sheep in wolves clothing. nt

[ieoeja]

61. The linked to post was actually a good sarcastic riff against a "Democrats have no ideas" meme.

His post boils down to "we have no idea how to":

- start war without end
- double the national debt in six years
- justify the elimination of civil right
- destroy schools and health care
- destroying our economy by shipping jobs to countries with unfair and unjust labor laws

Because those are all GOP ideas judging by their record.

[marble falls]

23. I do not think concern about violence against women is extremist, do you? In light of the violence..

committed against women by men, this violence against a class of people IS a "larger" issue.

"Go on, JURY ME for saying it. You KNOW you WANT TO!" looks a lot like trolling.

[riqster]

33. I took the Rev up on his suggestion.

Bummer that 3 people voted to leave it, but on the plus side, 4 voted to hide this MRA post.

[marble falls]

37. I am shocked by the anti-feminism here, I am ashamed how long it took me to see it. Really see.....

it.

I thank people like the good rev for helping to open to open my eyes.

[riqster]

38. Yeah, it's odd to see in a place like DU, innit?

Hope the misogynistic nitwit learns from his little time-out.

[marble falls]

41. I pray your hope isn't wasted.

[theHandpuppet]

56. I joined you.

[seaglass]

24. That's a really sad statement. We should all only post what you deem important, rape and death

threats to women doing their jobs are so trivial. Online harassment and attacks against women for speaking out - unimportant.

Why don't you give us a list of topics that are sufficiently non-trivial to discuss on DU? Or better yet, use the little X found next to the thread title and just shut it down so you don't have to worry your beautiful mind about these trivial matters.

[IdaBriggs]

26. Uh, no. The issue is how COMMON women who speak up get death/rape threats.

Especially by crazy stalker people on the internet.

In this case, it is not over a "personal" issue (like whether a teenager has been raped while drugged with the boys carrying her around and sharing videos of the incident, later abandoning her in sub-zero weather on her front lawn while unconscious), but over A PROFESSIONAL CAREER.

The men who are threatening her may just be "keyboard commando" types, but they may also be crazy psychotic unsocialized whack jobs; we already know they are criminals because they are Committing a Crime by THREATENING PHYSICAL VIOLENCE against other people.

So, once the haters started vocalizing their fondest wishes to HURT PEOPLE, any credibility they may have had was gone.

Now the only question is "Why would anyone let these fools post on their site?" along with "Why are they allowed access to social media, since they have proven themselves incapable of using it responsibly?" <-- with appropriate authorities denying them access to the internet as part of a parole situation similar to the ways young hackers and online pedophiles are regularly denied access to their weapons

[riqster]

27. Crap. Progressives fight against oppression and inequality.

We don't ignore it or dismiss it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

28. And you see no connection between this hatred of women, and the "looming Republican controlled

Senate"? No connection at all? Why am I not surprised?

[MADem]

30. Points! nt

[MADem]

29. I beg your pardon--I haven't alerted on a single post in this thread.

Don't behave badly and then blame others for the outcome--I don't care enough about you to want anything to happen to you, you just aren't a factor in my life, I don't even know who in hell you are. Sorry, you haven't registered on my radar before now.

That said, you're wrong, because the BOSTON GLOBE cared enough about this to put a lengthy article in their paper about it. A woman in a male-dominated industry is receiving death threats and has gone into hiding. If you think that's trivial, well, in my view you have a warped understanding of trivia.

Now, let me school you about something, because apparently you are confused. This is the GENERAL DISCUSSION forum--go have a look at the SOP for it, and you'll see that this thread meets the guidelines for it. If you want straight political talk, head over to POLITICS 2014, or set about HIDING every single THREAD in both LBN and GD that don't have a political theme.

But STOP net nannying. You have control over your DU experience--I suggest you stop griping and start using it.

If you want to kick this thread with more whining, go right ahead. Or not. I don't care.

[marble falls]

40. I'll kick for him and raise his third person kick with a double recomend. Thankyou for your .....

contribution to my education here on DU!

[MADem]

63. This is a learning experience for me, too.

I think one thing we need to do as a country is increase STEM education from the earliest years for children coming up--and half our children are girls. We want kids going into the sciences, to include "computer sciences," and if they do they are going to end up in these sorts of jobs, along with more ponderous and serious ones as well. If half the population doesn't feel welcomed in that area, it's not good for the future of the nation. A crew of old farts being proprietary about "their" little corner of the world doesn't cut it. They're going to have to shove over and make room--or be left behind when everyone turns their back on them and moves forward without them.

[marble falls]

66. Could not agree with you more. As an old fart(progressive) myself, I get it, its the right thing....

life is a progression.

[Sunlei]

39. A very positive side of social media is it draws out societies problems, like sexism & harassment

These topics need a lot of discussion.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. How exactly is it that making such death and rape threats is not illegal?

I'm all for law enforcement not being able to simply collect info on everyone and everything, but you'd think that these specific cases are things for which LEO could easily get warrants, and, in fact, that people who host various websites would be more than happy to turn over records so that these people could be traced and arrested...

[MADem]

52. That is a good question. The threats are being turned over to the police, so we will just

have to see how tech-savvy the local police are when it comes to going after these people.

If they're communicating via proxy servers abroad, or making their threats on message boards in less enlightened countries, that might be harder to trace. I don't know--I am not an expert.

In the meantime, though, this woman, her husband, and her pets, are outta her house (address of which was published) and she's in hiding, in essence. It's got to suck.

[AngryAmish]

54. I don't get the how.

As in I am too ignorant to know how these things work. I assume if you make an online threat it will come back to you, unless you sneak into someone's house and use their computer.

We know the why.

[MADem]

57. No--you can, if you want to go through the hassle, spam, malware, etc., do that crap from your

own computer. You dial in (I am using old fashioned terms, here, forgive me) to a proxy server in Russia or somewhere where they're not going to honor a subpeona from the Arlington Police Department, and you send out your threats and nastiness from there. When anyone looks at the messages, they see that they emanated from a server in Russia or where-ever, and there is no connection to your computer.

There's also a thing called spoofing, where they make your computer look like someone else's. A computer whiz is going to have to explain this because I can't. All I know is that there are jerks out there that do this with the phone--they call up and the number on caller id is YOUR OWN, or it's a number, that, when you call it back, has been disconnected.

It's how all those ANONYMOUS guys hack into the FAS, the Pentagon, etc., and how those hackers looking for credit card numbers are able to dig around and steal information, yet not get caught.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

64. Well, heck, I could do that right now, now that I think of it.

There are 2-3 unprotected wi-fi networks in my neighbourhood right now, and I could probably take a laptop in my car around town and find a couple dozen more. Go hit up a microcenter and buy a few dozen cheap network cards with cash. Put on gloves, pull the card out of packaging, insert one into the laptop, log on to the unprotected wi-fi network do whatever illegal thing, log off, then (still gloved) remove the card, smash the card and dispose of that networking card in a random public trash can.

Police would be able to trace the illegal act back to the IP address of the unprotected wifi network. Then, if that person hadn't cleared their router logs (and even had them turned on) they could only get the mac address of the network card used to connect to that network. That tells them the type of card used, manufacturer, type, but unless they can locate that card, they have no way to tie it to me.

They could still try tracing the sale of the network card, but unless they manage to come up with the video footage of me paying cash for that card, I'd be 'clean'. Heck, go buy those cards in winter, with a bulky scarf around most of your face and I doubt they'd ever be able to find you. Buy the cards in one city, use an open wi-fi network in another.

No prints on the card even if they find it, no credit card records to trace, no IP tied to you, no mac address tied to you. The weakest points left would be the chance of being caught on camera either A) purchasing the cards, or B) while using the cards to do whatever illegal thing you got up to. For instance, parking on the street while doing it, and actually being in field of a security camera somewhere nearby.

You could also commit the usual mystery novel things criminals do that result in them getting caught, such as doing the same thing too often, by using and reusing the same open network more than once, or keeping the disposable card too long.

(Disclaimer: If you do this and get caught, don't blame me - I've not tried any of this, it's just a thought exercise; I always kind of wanted to write mystery novels

[AngryAmish]

65. see, you are smarter than me

I will just do the easier thing, just be an asshole and not threaten anyone.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

70. 'Smarter' is always up for grabs.

I would say I've got more specialized knowledge of networking because I spend over a decade working in IT, and picked up a systems analysis degree. Ie, I've got different life experiences. I'm sure there are a number of fields you could show a lot more knowledge of than me.

[Sunlei]

62. It is illegal. Can contact twitter and the police. Twitter will close their account, turn over

Twitter will close their account, turn over info of a crime to authorities. The harasser will also lose their ISP/ cell phone account. Same would happen here on DU if someone makes death threats.

[riqster]

67. Not that easy. I have dealt with online death threats, and the process is spotty and inconsistent.

Not all LEAs know what to do, and ISPs and websites can be reluctant to terminate accounts without a court judgement to cover themselves.

Not saying don't do it: just be prepared for a lot of hoop-jumping before justice is served.

[joeglow3]

55. She lost me

when she said she loved Final Fantasy. Dragon Warrior/Quest was and is so much better.

[MADem]

58. Well, even if she doesn't like your favorite game, she doesn't deserve death threats. nt

[joeglow3]

68. Sorry for not including the sarcasm tag

I have not followed the story, but anyone with a sense of common sense would agree with you statement.

Here is what I am guessing is going on:

Growing up (I am 37), I LOVED video games. Early on, the perception was that the market was dominated by males. As a kid, females would occasionally pick up a zelda or mario game, but that seemed to be about it. Personally, I experienced many women looking down on gaming as a waste of time and something only loser boys would spend hours and hours on.

Early on in my marriage, my wife express a similar sentiment (not mean or nasty). I pointed out to her how I loved playing RPG's, they typically take 100+ hours and involve a lot of text and story telling. I asked her how this is any different than her enjoying spending a similar amount of time reading or doing any other hobby. At that point, I think it clicked for her and she saw it for what it was - an escape no different than what she enjoys.

NOW, where I think the frustration comes in: someone is coming in and telling these people all that they enjoy about their hobby is sexist and needs to change. I see hypocrisy because I have read some of the books my wife has read. Books like Patterson and Gone Girl (which I read), along with the occasional romance novel and Fifty Shades Trilogy (which I read). Sorry, anything sexist and stereotypical in video games is NOTHING compared to the shit I have read in those romance novels. And yet, there is no outcry to change the industry because of how men are portrayed in those books. Why is it the hobby men/boys enjoy NEEDS to change, but the hobby that woman/girl enjoy is awesome, stereotypes and all?

As a caveat: We can all agree shit like GTA are trash, but when she trashes games like mario and zelda (and I think she even had complaints with Metroid, where the hero was a female), it is getting a little hypersensitive and demanding.

Now, none of this defends that shit they are dealing with and I think everyone needs to rise up and squash. THEN, we can have a discussion about the hypocrisy we see in our analysis of people's hobbies.

[MADem]

73. I kinda figured you didn't really mean it.

You can't be too careful here, though! I was soliciting an "it was only snark" comment so no one would take you seriously.

As for the games, there's going to be an evolution in them--there always is. That evolution will come about as more people, diverse people, women, minorities, especially, are made part of the "construction" process. Already woman are a huge part of the consumer end of things.

When males start being tipping point consumers of romance novels, I'll wager the content of those will change. I haven't seen much of a demand for "man-centric" romance novels, have you? If there is, and more men start writing them with the male characters having the central role, that will be because men start buying the things.

I also don't think it's entirely relevant to compare video games to romance novels, because women--lots and lots of women--play video games, and few men read romance novels.

I think it shocks people to learn that MORE WOMEN THAN TEENAGED BOYS PLAY VIDEO GAMES.

I mean, really--who knew?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/22/adult-women-gamers-outnumber-teenage-boys/

The average gamer may not be who you think he is.

Women older than 18 are 36 percent of the game-playing population, while boys younger than 18 are only 17 percent, according to a recent study by the gaming advocacy group Entertainment Software Association.

The number of female gamers age 50 and older increased by 32 percent from 2012 to 2013.

Men still make up 52 percent of the game-playing population, but women, now 48 percent of the gaming population compared with just 40 percent in 2010, are closing in. The rising popularity of mobile gaming is one reason why.

[joeglow3]

82. I agree with that.

My wife was shocked when I showed her that stat. I think the issue is to provide a more diverse gaming experience, which you are starting to see to some extent. The issue, however, is not the gaming culture, but culture in general. The main blockbuster games are usually male focused, have a male lead or possess all the tropes. However, woman have accepted (not saying it is right) and can enjoy these games. I truly think boys/men would struggle with playing a game with a strong female lead that doesn't look like Lara Croft. Then again, most male lead character aren't exactly fat, old and out of shape.

Now, the question is, in our quest to drive more equality in society in general, can the video game culture lead the way? Probably, but this is why these things can take generations to truly change. We need a generation of children playing these games to grow up and be less likely to care about perpetuating the stereotypes.

[MADem]

98. There's a lot to like about the younger generations.

In many ways, they are more open and honest, less concerned about playing mind-games, and the way they group themselves is much less rigid. I think the whole anti-bullying effort has helped this along, a lot. They feel freer to follow their own interests and not worry so much about "fitting in" like back in the jocks v. greaser days.

I see a lot more sincerity in kids, or maybe I'm just easily conned as I get older!! I'm sure there are plenty of little jerks out there too, but I am often surprised at how ready kids and young adults are to learn about new things and have experiences outside their comfort zones--they seem less worried about "looking cool" than previous generations, and they're also kinder, too.

I think there's hope! I don't know if the video game culture can lead the way, but it will most definitely be "in the mix."

[ZombieHorde]

86. I love the first FF.

Being able to make your own party, plus different vehicles was awesome in 1990.

Dragon Warrior was cool too.

[joeglow3]

90. I like FF, but never played until SNES days

There will always be a nostalgia for DQ. I have kick ass memories of playing all four of them and can even remember the excitement of going to Toys R Us with my parents to get 3 and 4.

[Puzzledtraveller]

91. Yeah, me too.

Been playing FF since the original NES and FFXI online since 2004. Avid Morrowind and Fallout fan, females are well represented in these games. Some of Bethesda's top designers are females.

[LostOne4Ever]

122. Not a fan of the original FF

But Final Fantasy 6 and 9 are two of the greatest games ever made.

[Are_grits_groceries]

60. There was person on Twitter who had begun

doxxing every woman who commented on #gamergate.

[ZombieHorde]

89. “fighting an apocalyptic future where women are 8 percent of programmers and not 3 percent.”

That is pretty funny.

The violent threats are so fucked up. Just seems to pathetic to me.

[Initech]

92. My money is that these gamers making threats scored low on the TMI index.

[LostInAnomie]

94. "It would be funny to play pinata with the bodies of white straight males who hung themselves"

- Ben Dreyfuss, Mother Jones Editor

One thing that seems to have gotten lost in the whole #gamergate discussion is the fact that any adult who plays video games is a loser virg - Ben Dreyfuss, Mother Jones Editor

I don't want to offend anyone, but it would be pretty funny if every single person who tweeted the #gamergate hashtag drowned - Ben Dreyfuss, Mother Jones Editor




Let's see, we've got bullying posts wishing death upon gamergaters by an anti-gamergate member of the press. Now, by most anti-gamergater's logic this makes people opposed to gamergate all racist, misandrist, violent, bullying monsters, right?

[MADem]

95. I don't think any of those comments are appropriate, nor do I see anything more than a thin

and tangential thread connecting them to the harassment of the woman in the article linked in the thread starting post.

Anyone who knows me, knows that I have never been a fan of the "Two wrongs make a right" school of thought.

[LostInAnomie]

97. "Bring Back Bullying" - Sam Biddle, Vallywag Editor at Gawker Media

"Ultimately, #gamergate is reaffirming what we've known to be true for decades: nerds should be constantly shamed and degraded into submission - Sam Biddle, Vallywag Editor at Gawker Media

"We're offering $10,000 for unretouched photos of a gamergate participant we would actually fuck" - Erin Gloria Ryan, Jezebel.com News Editor



These anti-gamergaters need to be stopped! They are promoting bullying and online shaming! I can't believe how violent and disgusting all people against gamergate are!

Oh right, that logic only applies to gamergaters.

[MADem]

100. Again, I'm not sure that these comments have anything more than a tangential relationship to the

woman in the OP getting threatened.

You persist in prosecuting a "You be mean to ME? I'll be mean to YOU!!!" exercise.

It's not a contest, there's no one-upmanship game being played here.

My OP talks about a real woman getting death threats. Your posts talk about abstract trash talk, not naming any specific person who has to pack up their bags and their pets and leave their homes, from people who should know better. There's a difference between name calling a large, amorphous group of "nerds," and doxxing a real human being to the point where she is in fear for her life.

[AverageJoe90]

111. Well, TBH, I don't think that kind of thing is going to be helpful at all.

And yes, Sam Biddle in particular was being a bit of a douche himself. Not fuckin' cool, and he should be ashamed for stooping down to that level.

But, OTOH, I don't think it distracts from the very real problems that HAVE been happening.

[LostInAnomie]

113. Here's the thing.

I can post examples of people against gamergate making threats, bullying, filing false police reports, and doxxing gamergaters all day long. I can post more than a few examples of pro-gamergate people receiving death threats. Pretty much the same kind of behavior that people use to smear gamergate with as a "violent hate group".

So why is it that whenever people against gamergate threaten, bully, dox, file false police reports, and make death threats they suffer no consequence? Why is it that no one seems to give a shit when Mike Cernovich gets doxxed or has false police reports filed against him? Why are there no polemic threads on DU decrying the death threats against Total Biscuit, Milo Yiannopoulos, and KingofPol? Where's the outrage when gaming journalists are looking to purchase personal information of InternetAristocrat? Why was there not a peep on here when Leah Alexander was threatening to ruin the careers of any journalist that printed a pro-gamergate story?

So, when can we start smearing all people against gamergate as being supportive of violence?

[MADem]

114. You need to start them if you want to discuss them. I started this thread because I

read a story in the Globe that surprised, even shocked, me, and I wanted to hear from people who had more insight into the situation. I learned a lot from many DUers by doing this.

If you want to talk about a topic, don't wait for "The DU GOD" to flop down a thread so you can discuss it, start a thread yourself and see where it goes. Fair warning--if you persist in insisting that a large community of people who are known for sexist threats and harassment are somehow being victimized as a group, you might not get a lot of support. If you approach your topic in a more nuanced way you might find people willing to discuss it with you.

I haven't seen the police arrest anyone with regard to Ms. Wu, still in hiding, so I'm not sure why you think she's getting some kind of preferential treatment. No one has "suffered any consequence" in her situation save HER--she's hiding out with her pets and husband, she can't go home to her own house and sleep in her own bed. 48 percent of gamers are women--and it's likely that number will go up, not down. The future of gaming, like it or not, is going to include women as a critical mass. The "construction crew" putting those games out is gonna follow suit, that's just a given.

[AverageJoe90]

123. I'm open to evidence in that regard, as well, yes.

If you would like to send all this stuff to my DU Inbox, I'll be willing to look thru it, and see for myself.

[kcr]

133. You can post those examples all day long

And it doesn't change what Gamergate is or excuse their actions.

[LostInAnomie]

135. What actions are those?

The threats against Anita Saarkesian that happened before gamergate started? The USU threat that she canceled a speech over that the police said had nothing to do with gamergate? The threat against Brianna Wu that doesn't even mention gamergate?

Which actions do you mean? Because the boycotts, charity work, and reporting of online harassers, that informed people know gamergate does everyday doesn't seem threatening at all.

If we have to apologize for the behaviors of people not even affiliated with gamergate, why shouldn't people against gamergate have to apologize for all the death threats and doxxing gamergaters have received?

[kcr]

136. So the only way any one person or group can ever be accountable

is if no other person or group ever does a similar bad thing?

[LostInAnomie]

137. How does that even make sense in your head?

Gamergate has no actual connection to threats against Brianna Wu or Anita Saarkesian. Blaming them for death threats would be like someone blaming the Sierra Club for the actions of the E.L.F.

Sure, there might be people dumb enough to try, but any informed person would tell them they are a fucking idiot.

[kcr]

139. It doesn't make sense. I don't know why you're throwing out all these examples as if it matters. n/t

[LostInAnomie]

99. "Pro GamerGate Writer Sent Syringe Through Mail" - The Escapist

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.861243-Pro-GamerGate-Writer-Sent-Syringe-Through-Mail

No idea what's in this syringe but evidently someone wants me to find out! Arrived yesterday. Crazy. #GamerGate



https://twitter.com/Nero/status/513666683916255232/photo/1

Probably just water, but I'll skip the human trial I think. #GamerGate



https://twitter.com/Nero/status/513667076318588928/photo/1

Is this enough to get anti-gamergate qualified as a hate group? Oh right, that logic only applies to gamergate.

[MADem]

101. Is there an organized group called "anti-gamergate?"

Look, I clicked on your first link and this is what I saw:

So this Breibert writer, Milo Yiannopoulos, was sent a syringe through the mail, presumably for being a massive supporter of GG. Here's the pics and the tweets involved:

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but Breitbart is famous for ... how can put this? Making Shit Up. In a big way. That crew doesn't place a high import on truth.

I am sorry, but based on their track record, I'd not be surprised if that writer sent the thing to himself.

[LostInAnomie]

106. So, only death threats to people you like count...

... or is it that death threats to people you don't like don't count? I'm trying to get the hypocrisy right.

But, since we are picking and choosing who to believe, why not doubt Brianna Wu's story. She has been known to make stuff up in the past. She loves self promotion. She's been known to use sockpuppet twitter accounts in the past to harass people (@brololz). What makes her story believable, otherthan your bias against gamergate?

To answer you question, yes, there is an anti-gamergate group. Both literally and figuratively. Literally, as in they have their own sites and hashtags. Figuratively, as in there are people that go out of their way to attack and bully gamergate supporters but don't overtly call themselves anti-gamergate.

[MADem]

107. First of all, I don't respond well to accusatory "So... followed by a strawman that doesn't

represent my views" pronouncements.

I'm going to suggest that you re-read every response I have made to you in this thread. If you're having a hard time understanding that "two wrongs don't make a right" then you need to try a little harder to appreciate the points I have made to you. Violence and threats are "bad." No matter who makes them.

So...do you think you can do that? Read what I've written to you, and absorb it, and not accuse me of saying that I categorize death threats, when I don't?

I certainly hope so. I think I've been very clear in my views and left no ambiguity as to how I regard those who issue threats and engage in violence--no matter who might do them. I am in favor of prosecuting the threat issuers to the fullest extent of the law.

[LostInAnomie]

108. What you respond well to is not something I care one bit about.

If you don't like your hypocrisy being pointed out, then don't be a hypocrite.

You have chosen to accept whole cloth the story of a woman that confesses to using sockpuppets and harassing others online, but you completely discount the threats to someone elses life because of where they work. If you can't see the hypocrisy in that there is not hope for you.

Either accept them both, or discount them both. If you discount both, then your entire thread has no purpose. If you accept both, then all people against gamergate need to be smeared with the same broad brush you smeared gamergaters with.

Which is it?

[jamzrockz]

109. Good point

Also the majority of the harassing tweets from pro gamergaters have come from anonymous twitter accounts and not know public figures like Sam Biddle.

[el_bryanto]

117. I think it's because as a liberal I tend to want more inclusion for woman and minorities

and those who are pro-gamergate want woman and minorities to be excluded from their little club. So I tend to be anti-gamergate.

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

119. Anti-gamergate, eh?

Why has your group taken part in so many violent threats? What do you hope to gain by doxxing, bullying, and threatening the lives of people that only want ethical journalism? Why are you so afraid of ethics in gaming journalism that you you are willing to attack the lives and personal careers or people? How can you claim the be for women when someone from your side threatened to show up at the workplace of Christina Hoff Sommers and attack her? What about all the bullying Jenni Bharaj gets everyday just for wanting ethical journallism? It's obvious that the "concern" people against gamergate have for women and minorities is a smokescreen to cover their violent repression of people that speak out.

^That^ is the reverse of the basic horseshit that anyone pro-gamergate has to wade through to be able to discuss ethical journalism. It makes as much sense applied to the anti-gamergate crowd as it does when reversed.

The idea that gamergate wants women and minorities out of video games is fabricated ridiculousness. If that were true, why would we select gaming journalism as our focus? Gaming journalists tend to be whiter than white men. Most of them come from wealthy families. If you going to pick poster-boys for privilege, the staff of most gaming magazines would be a good start.

If stopping minorities and women was our goal, why would we be paired up with #notyoushield (a diverse group of women and minorities for ethical journalism in gaming)? If we were for attacking women why would we have created #gamergate harassment patrol (which is headed by a woman btw) to document and report any threats or doxxing related to the controversy?

[el_bryanto]

120. Well you are partnered up with not your shield because they are the "right" kind of women and

minorities. The kind that don't challenge your notions of what a good gamer should be. Obviously any woman who challenges your notions isn't a real gamer, but a woman who agrees with you is accepted.

You know what you remind me of - those Republicans who hold up Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin as an example of the types of strong women Republicanism attracted. Of course republicanism still works to keep woman in very specific societal rolls - the same way that Gamergate tries to keep women and minorities in very specific rolls within games.

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

121. So you've basically got nothing but a genuinely uninformed opinion...

... that is only confirmed by your own biases?

Gamergate has NOTHING to do with "what a good gamer should be". Nothing. It has nothing to do with keeping minorities and women out of gaming. Honestly, it has nothing to do with Branna Wu. She somehow shoehorned herself into it even though her death threat never even mentioned gamergate (kind of like how Anita Saarkesian's threats happened before gamergate started or never mentioned gamergate). You obviously know nothing about gamergate/notyourshield or their goals, but you have decided to inject yourself into the conversation anyways?

Gamergate is about ethics in gaming journalism, and that is all. It is about ending corruption and cronyism in the media that holds sway over a $21B a year industry. It is a shame that your own biases prevent you from taking an objective look.

[el_bryanto]

130. Your denials are kind of sad.

It's a bit like people who say "The civil war had nothing to do with slavery. That tyrant Lincoln forced South Carolina to fire on Fort Sumter."

Except that all the inciting incidents in Gamergate revolve around woman being shamed. I know that since then some Gamergate folk have dredged up other issues and pretended that those are what it is all about, but it's really pretty transparent, isn't it?

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

134. You keep inventing boogymen...

Last edited Sat Nov 1, 2014, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

... to compare to GG with no regard to if they even make sense. Republicans, Civil War revisionists, what's next? Nazis? The Klan? ISIS? The Sith? If you you weren't serious, it would be funny. As it stands, it's just pathetic.

See, you just expose your ignorance everytime you post. The inciting incident that served as a catalyst for gamergate, was an inappropriate and undosclosed relationship between a game developer and a game journalist. A journalist that happened to beta test the developer's game and that he selected to feature and praise out of 50 other games in Steam's greenlight project. A game journalist that was also thanked in the credits of said game and told the game "wouldn't have been possible without". If you can't see how that might be a conflict of interests, you need to go back to ethics class. Once again though, you'll never hear that story in the media.

Do yourself a favor and inform yourself. You look like you think slinging the anti-gamergate buzz words around makes a coherent argument.

[el_bryanto]

143. That's really not a very honest explanation of what happened is it?

yOu left out a few things didn't you?

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

150. I did leave out the part where the same game dev doxxed and DDoSed a game jam for women...

... because she was hosting a competing game jam. Then, her gaming journalist friends told the people that were doxxed and DDoSed to give money to the game dev.

I also left out the part where the same game developer used a false DMCA claim to keep discussion of gamergate off of YouTube.

I also left out the part about a google group called "gamejournopro" where gaming journalists from most of the major online publications conspired on how they would cover the controversy with a focus on delegitimizing gamergate by calling it misogynistic and violent.

There's also the part where on the exact same day 12 almost identical articles showed up on most major online gaming magazines featuring almost all the same talking points discussed in gamejournopro, such as "gamers are dead", "gamers are white, male, misogynist, and violent", and "gamers shouldn't be game makers target audience".

I'm guessing doxxing, DDoSing, censorship, journalistic collusion/conspiring, and journalists abusing their position to smear a group of people and push a self serving agenda doesn't concern you though.

[el_bryanto]

156. I meant the bit about how the person making the accusation was an ex-boyfriend?

And how the accusation wasn't true? From Kyle Wagners history of it.

The simplest version of the story goes something like this: In August, the ex-boyfriend of an obscure game developer writes a long, extensively documented, literally self-dramatizing, and profoundly deranged blog post about the dissolution of their relationship. Among his many accusations, he claims she slept with a gaming journalist in return for favorable coverage. This clearly isn't true, but a group of gamers becomes convinced there is a conspiracy to not cover this story. The developer's personal information is distributed widely across the internet, and she and a feminist gaming activist receive graphic, detailed threats, forcing the activist to contact the police and flee her home. In response, several sites publish think pieces about the death of the gamer identity. These pieces are, in essence, celebrations of the success of gaming, arguing that it is now enjoyed by so many people of such diverse backgrounds and with such varied interests that the idea of the gamer—a person whose identity is formed around a universally enjoyed leisure activity—now seems as quaint as the idea of the moviegoer. Somehow, this is read to mean that these sites now think gamers are bad. The grievances intensify, and the discussions of them on Twitter are increasingly unified under the hashtag #gamergate.

I think it's sad how you pretend a few isolated incidents of harrassment, which are terrible, are the equivalent of the mountains of threats women have received.

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

102. "I'll kill your wife and leave you to mourn."

Gamergate supporter receives death threats

MATTHEW CODD
Last updated 15:54, October 15 2014

Steven "Boogie2988" Williams, a popular YouTube gamer and a vocal supporter of some aspects of the #GamerGate hashtag campaign on Twitter, has revealed that he and his family have been repeatedly sent death threats, and is calling for peace from both sides.

"Just last night I deleted a youtube comment from a user who posted my home address and said he'd kill my wife and leave me to mourn," Williams tweeted this morning. "'you should report such things to the police.' I'd be on the phone every 2-3 days. They're already tired of the calls I've made," he continued.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/games/62442166/gamergate-supporter-receives-death-threats.html

Doesn't count though, does it?

[MADem]

103. Not clear if it was gamergate types who issued that death threat, is it?

Some seem to be angry with him for trying to be a peacemaker.

And he does say that two wrongs don't make a right, doesn't he?

This is largely a result of a video Williams posted on Twitter last week (language warning), condemning both #GamerGate supporters and opponents for an increasingly vitriolic situation. In the wake of that, Williams has continued to call for civility in the discussion. "I truly believe its time to start extending some olive branches and I'm glad to be that branch," he tweeted earlier this morning, prior to revealing the threats he received.

He has also reached out to Brianna Wu, a developer and #GamerGate opponent who was similarly threatened over the weekend, and Alexis G. Stodghill, producer of MSNBC's show The Reid Report, which featured Wu in the wake of the threats.

"Ok I'll stop tweeting for a bit and afk," Williams said, after revealing the threats. "But remember just because I have been threatened gives you no right to threaten back. BE KIND."

So...there's a good start: BE KIND.

That counts plenty.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

147. what do you mean, doesn't count?

[AverageJoe90]

110. Sadly, the lunacy and outright despicable behavior that a certain small segment......

of the gaming community, not to mention a fairly higher number of trolls who just wanted an opprotunity to cause trouble, period(and many of which probably aren't even gamers at all), has wreaked, it will no doubt be used by certain unsavory elements in this country, MANY of them RWers(hypocrites that many righties are), to plaster ALL gamers with the same brush as this small, but loud as hell, pack of douchebags.....all the while trying to deflect from Teabaggers and others doing the *most* damage in society (And the saddest irony in relation to that? Nearly half of all gamers are female! And female gamers certainly don't deserve to be tarnished by the GamerGate fiasco, especially since their victims are pretty much all female gamers themselves! Like Brianna Wu, Zoe Quinn, etc.)

(P.S., for those of you decent DUers out there who still wanted to give the movement a chance because of the less unsavory side to it, and because of actual valid points you may have heard from a few of its supporters.....well, I'm afraid it's too late to rehabilitate anything. I would highly suggest you start your own movement, so you don't get lumped in with the assholes who doxxed Zoe Quinn, and other particularly nasty individuals.)

[jamzrockz]

115. Start a new movement

and if it gets any traction, the troll will come along. Do you suggest they abandon the new hashtag every time some small group tries to hijack it? With that mindset, we should all condemn the whole Ferguson protests because a few people took the opportunity to loot. I mean they should abandon the whole movement and restart in some other city. That makes sense right?

Then again, we can understand the movement for what it is. It is a hashtag movement online with no entrance restrictions. Anyone can say anything under its banner and get away with it. I as a pro gg can go around posting ignorant stuff about gamers under the #stopgamegaters and get away with it. The best thing we can do with this movement and future movements like this is to ignore the trolls and listen to what the vast majority of the people in it are talking about which I promise you are not rape/death treats and hatred of women.

[gater]

129. You ever seen the gamer threads on 4chan, or worse places?

Gamergate has nothing to do with ethics. That's all blowing smoke up our asses. Death threats and doxxing seem to be the movement norm and not the exception toward women. If it's a male that makes a statement, like Kluwe and Wheaton... then its crickets. Why is that?
Because you are wrong with what you have presented. Please go back to playing Bayonetta 2, and have a nice life!

[jamzrockz]

149. Which is weird

Why do you think Chris Kluwe was spared? Personally, I wish the media would quit focusing on people like Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn. The gaming websites like kotaku and the journalists that write for it are the real problem. Injecting gender, social, racial politics in gaming is much bigger problem than the nepotism involving people like Zoe and game journalists

[Rex]

124. Why are people downplaying this women's nightmare of a life?

Seriously, wtf!? You have the right not to believe her, but please don't help support MRA types by downplaying her plight. Women play video games just as much as men do now - get over it.

I've never read about so many supposed grown men, scared to death of women. It's like they never actually met one in RL.

[MADem]

141. I agree with you completely. The "but ... but ...." about the videogames is childish in the

extreme and not the issue. The "two wrongs make a right" mentality is obfuscation.

The focus of my OP was this woman who was being harassed and threatened. The attempts to derail the conversation from her plight are curious.

[sweetloukillbot]

151. That's all it has been with Gamergate supporters since the beginning

Whenever anyone makes a comment against gamergate, they get swarmed on Twitter, FB and whatever other social media platform, get doxxed or have their family doxxed. With the same b/s arguments about how it's about "ethics in gaming journalism" and "not all gamers".
The thing they all seem to miss is that the person committing the journalistic ethical breach isn't the female game creator. Yet this started when a jilted boyfriend published a rambling note about how his ex, a game developer, was sleeping with a journalist to get good reviews for her game and the gaming community exploded. A journalist who didn't actually write about her game, mind you.
The creator was the one targeted, presumably because the virtuous journalist couldn't resist her wiles and couldn't possibly be to blame for an ethical lapse, it's misogynistic at its core.
And it was never so important an issue that it required such bandwidth until women started complaining about sexism in videogames.

[MADem]

152. Well, I guess it was easier to place blame on that naughty woman than for the jilted

boyfriend to look inward and see why his relationship with his ex-girlfriend fell apart. Generally speaking, people end up leaving relationships because they aren't getting what they want or need in them, and they fall into new ones because those do seem to offer them what they're looking for, even if it's sometimes transient.

Perhaps the false construct he created about the journalist reviewing the game was his application of his own brand of "logic"--"Why, that's the only reason she might sleep with him, to GET something--it couldn't possibly be that she thought he was attractive and he was meeting her needs by being caring and attentive to her!" And why, for heaven's sake, did he not think that the journalist, assuming he was aware of the relationship between Jilty and the developer, said to himself "Wow, he's treating her like shit--she's ready to make a move. How about I ask her out for a drink and see if I have a shot?"

Is the guy so socially inept that he doesn't realize this IS how the world works?

Imagine if the journalist was female--that would give him two people to hate!

[ncjustice80]

154. Someone needs to.dox and threatan HIM..maybe he would learnnsome empathy.

[MADem]

155. No. Two wrongs never make a right. The justice system should handle people who dox and

threaten people. Hopefully, they'll make it sting, so people don't get the idea that this sort of behavior is without consequence.

[ncjustice80]

157. Im just frustrated.

[MADem]

158. I know, and I can't say I blame you. It's a terrible thing.

The internet is so cool in so many ways, but the anonymity it affords turns some people into real jerks. The people who threaten, harass and dox take it beyond being jerks, they take it to a criminal level. They should be called to answer for their behavior.

And the truth is, most people are nice. Most people don't act like that. But it only takes one turd to ruin the punch!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

146. +1