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Time for change

(13,714 posts)
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 04:04 PM Oct 2014

Edward Snowden on the Meaning of Patriotism

For his leaking of classified government documents, Edward Snowden has widely been accused of being a traitor to the United States (including by former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Speaker of the House John Boehner), and charged with felonies punishable by up to 30 years in prison.

Consideration of the history and character of those who call Snowden a traitor makes it clear what their motives are. Secretary Gates’ primary focus as Director of the CIA under President Reagan was to manipulate intelligence to provide propaganda in support of Reagan’s ideology and thereby facilitate U.S. support of right wing Central American governments and paramilitaries, which had brutal and fatal consequences for the people of El Salvador and Nicaragua. As the most visible leader of a political Party that almost exclusively serves the interests of the wealthy and powerful, at the expense of everyone else, John Boehner’s castigation of Snowden makes perfect sense.


The meaning of patriotism

In a recent interview with Katrina vanden Heuval, Editor and Publisher of The Nation, Snowden was asked how he defines patriotism. In my opinion, Snowden’s response is especially instructive and valuable because of the clear distinction it makes between acts that benefit a country’s government vs. acts that benefit its people:

What defines patriotism, for me, is the idea that one rises to act on behalf of one’s country. As I said before, that’s distinct from acting to benefit the government – a distinction that’s increasingly lost today. You’re not patriotic just because you back whoever’s in power today or their policies. You’re patriotic when you work to improve the lives of the people of your country, your community and your family…

People sometimes say I broke an oath of secrecy – one of the early charges leveled against me. But it’s a fundamental misunderstanding, because there is no oath of secrecy for people who work in the intelligence community…. You are asked to take an oath, and that’s the oath of service. The oath of service is not to secrecy, but to the Constitution – to protect it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That’s the oath that I kept… When we see something wrong, when we witness our government engaging in serious crimes, abusing power, engaging in massive historic violations of the Constitution of the United States, we have to speak out or we are party to that bad action.


How our government’s war on whistleblowers threatens our democracy

So why all the animosity and charges directed against Snowden by our government? Snowden explains:

When governments go too far to punish people for actions that are dissent rather than a real threat to the nation, they risk delegitimizing not just their systems of justice, but the legitimacy of the government itself… The government would assert that individuals who are aware of serious wrongdoing in the intelligence community should bring their concerns to the people most responsible for that wrongdoing, and rely on those people to correct the problems that those people themselves authorized. Going all the way back to Daniel Ellsberg, it is clear that the government is not concerned with damage to national security, because in none of these cases was there damage. At the trial of Chelsea Manning, the government could point to no case of specific damage that had been caused by the massive revelation of classified information. The charges are a reaction to the government’s embarrassment more than genuine concern about these activities, or they would substantiate what harms were done. We’re now more than a year since my NSA revelations, and despite numerous hours of testimony before Congress, despite tons of off-the-record quotes from anonymous officials who have an ax to grind, not a single US official, not a single representative of the United States government, has ever pointed to a single case of individualized harm caused by these revelations…

A political decision has been made not to irritate the intelligence community. The spy agencies are really embarrassed, they’re really sore – the revelations really hurt their mystique… The surveillance revelations bring them back to Big Brother kind of narratives, and they don’t like that at all. The Obama administration almost appears as though it is afraid of the intelligence community.

This tendency of autocratic governments to lash out against those who reveal things that embarrass them, to escape their own embarrassment by charging the whistleblower with “treason” or violating and impairing “national security”, is not new. History is chock full of such things. In fact, it is the rule rather than the exception.

Those who believe that the United States is immune to this sort of thing are naïve. Unfortunately, with oligarchic control of our national news media, the situation in our country has become progressively worse in recent years.

The charges against Edward Snowden represent the 7th time that the Obama administration has used the Espionage Act of 1917 to punish government workers who shared information with the press. Prior to that, there had been only four such instances since the Act was enacted in 1917, the most well-known being the prosecution of Daniel Ellsberg for leaking the Pentagon Papers. In some cases the Obama administration has also gone after the press for publishing the information.

The purpose of the Whistleblower Protection Act is to enable government workers to bring government wrongdoing to public notice without fear of reprisal. As such, it serves to protect the American people against government abuse and is therefore an important part of our democratic system. Without the protection of the Act, revelation of government wrongdoing by government employees can pose great risk to their career and even their freedom. Even with its protection, it takes a good deal of courage for government employees to accuse their government of serious misdeeds. Consequently, the progressive tendency of our government to ignore the Act has posed a substantial threat to our democracy. I’ll conclude this post with a comment by former U.S. Foreign Service employee Peter van Buren, on how our government’s war on whistleblowers threatens our democracy:

When everything is classified any attempt to report on anything threatens to become a crime; unless, of course, the White House decides to leak to you...

For everyone else working to create Jefferson’s informed citizenry, it works very differently… Times reporter Jim Risen is now the subject of subpoenas by the Obama administration demanding he name his sources as part of {an} Espionage Act case… Risen was a journalist doing his job, and he raises this perfectly reasonable question: “Can you have a democracy without aggressive investigative journalism? I don’t believe you can, and that’s why I’m fighting.” Meanwhile, the government calls him their only witness to a leaker’s crime.

One thing at stake in the case is the requirement that journalists aggressively pursue information important to the public, even when that means heading into classified territory. If almost everything of importance (and much that isn’t) is classified, then journalism as we know it may become… well, illegal.

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Edward Snowden on the Meaning of Patriotism (Original Post) Time for change Oct 2014 OP
K & R !!! WillyT Oct 2014 #1
To the Greatest Page, and please woo me with science Oct 2014 #2
This says it all - djean111 Oct 2014 #3
I don't think that who is President is irrelevant to this issue Time for change Nov 2014 #19
Well who knows how much dirt the intel agencies have on ALL our government reps. Rex Nov 2014 #25
And Snowden's detractors offer the most Kafka-esque of criticisms, as noted by Snowden himself: Maedhros Oct 2014 #4
Yes Time for change Oct 2014 #5
From the Authoritarian point of view, Maedhros Oct 2014 #8
Don't look now, but... Marr Oct 2014 #17
I ignore those fools. Maedhros Oct 2014 #18
What a straw man argument by Snowden. randome Nov 2014 #22
To the Greatest Page indeed! elias49 Oct 2014 #6
Yes it is time for change. Using Snowden's definition of a patriot does not conform to Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #7
What makes you think that the DOJ is willing to make any kind of reasonable deal with him? Time for change Oct 2014 #9
Don't know if they will make a deal, do you know if he has tried or is he going to ask. Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #11
The DOJ has expressed no interest in making a deal with or obtaining information from him Time for change Oct 2014 #12
Perhaps he prefers spending his life living in countries which does not Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #14
Snowden has released plenty of information to warrant an investigation by the DoJ. bvar22 Oct 2014 #13
Snowden needs to make a bargain with the DOJ to give up names and information Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #16
I think that if you become more informed about this issue you would agree Time for change Nov 2014 #20
Unfortunetly I am informed, worked under the same conditions, it isnt hard Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #23
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Oct 2014 #10
k and r niyad Oct 2014 #15
Worth remembering here within the swarm of corporate PR woo me with science Nov 2014 #21
knr Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #24
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
3. This says it all -
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 04:10 PM
Oct 2014
"The Obama administration almost appears as though it is afraid of the intelligence community."


And I do not think there would be Snowden hatred here if Obama was not the current president. Who is president seems irrelevant to what the NSA is doing.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
19. I don't think that who is President is irrelevant to this issue
Sat Nov 1, 2014, 12:20 AM
Nov 2014

I acknowledge that it would probably take a good deal of courage for any President to go against the wishes of our National Security Establishment on issues such as this.

Yet I have to say that the President is elected by the American people, and is morally obligated to serve their interests. In my opinion, the best examples of US Presidents who went up against entrenched powers in the service of the American people were Lincoln, FDR, and JFK. It was extremely difficult to do that, and one could say that they paid a very high price for it, but that is the kind of President that we need. Lincoln and FDR had great and long-lasting accomplishments to show for their efforts. JFK died before he was able to achieve that.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
25. Well who knows how much dirt the intel agencies have on ALL our government reps.
Sat Nov 1, 2014, 05:00 PM
Nov 2014

And what they use it for. It's quite obvious with the CIA spying on Congress, they are completely out of control. Clapper lying under oath and facing no repercussions was telling to anyone paying attention.

Might be one very deep rabbit hole.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
4. And Snowden's detractors offer the most Kafka-esque of criticisms, as noted by Snowden himself:
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 04:27 PM
Oct 2014
[They] would assert that individuals who are aware of serious wrongdoing in the intelligence community should bring their concerns to the people most responsible for that wrongdoing, and rely on those people to correct the problems that those people themselves authorized.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
5. Yes
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 04:55 PM
Oct 2014

And Snowden has also pointed out that he did bring his concerns to his superiors, and they took no action.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
8. From the Authoritarian point of view,
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 04:59 PM
Oct 2014

whistle blowers are a priori traitors to the State, because they dare defy the State or embarrass the Leader.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
17. Don't look now, but...
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 07:00 PM
Oct 2014

one is pounding out one of those involuntary reflex, Kafka-esque criticisms just a couple of posts after yours. Pretty funny, in this context.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
22. What a straw man argument by Snowden.
Sat Nov 1, 2014, 02:37 PM
Nov 2014

He could have gone to any member of Congress and not to anyone involved in the NSA. His 'awareness of wrongdoing' is still his opinion, no smoking guns to bring the government to its knees as Greenwald once fantasized.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
7. Yes it is time for change. Using Snowden's definition of a patriot does not conform to
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 04:56 PM
Oct 2014

Dictionary version. If Snowden was a true whistleblower he would promptly make a deal with the DOJ and give them the information of who is involved with the scam but he isn't a whistleblower but one desirable to create havoc. Guess what this nation has stood the test before and will again it will take someone better than the hacker Snowden.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
12. The DOJ has expressed no interest in making a deal with or obtaining information from him
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 06:05 PM
Oct 2014

Given that, it would be futile for Snowden to ask for a deal. The DOJ's only response to his revelations has been to charge him with felonies entailing up to 30 years in prison.

Before leaking his revelations to the press, he went to his superiors with them. They indicated no interest in them.

He would be putting himself at tremendous risk if he gave himself up. He would likely face decades in prison, and very possibly torture as well.

An editorial in the New York Times summed up the situation very well:

Considering the enormous value of the information he has revealed, and the abuses he has exposed, Mr. Snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile, fear and flight. He may have committed a crime to do so, but he has done his country a great service. It is time for the United States to offer Mr. Snowden a plea bargain or some form of clemency that would allow him to return home, face at least substantially reduced punishment in light of his role as a whistle-blower, and have the hope of a life advocating for greater privacy and far stronger oversight of the runaway intelligence community.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/opinion/edward-snowden-whistle-blower.html?_r=0

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
14. Perhaps he prefers spending his life living in countries which does not
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 06:50 PM
Oct 2014

Extradite back to the US. I would have he is of normal intelligence and knew better than stealing, I can bet he was told not to take information outside of the NSA and surely he could have searched to find the penalties for espionage, ignorance is not a defense. I also wonder why he set himself in Hawaii knowing it was a laxed location and proceeded to download files and remove them from the premises. His first stories was he needed to have the files to prove he was right, as you see he has a new story when the one he just told is not believable. I would also doubt the DOJ could pass him as being truthful.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
13. Snowden has released plenty of information to warrant an investigation by the DoJ.
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 06:32 PM
Oct 2014

The DoJ does not need Snowden's permission to take action.
All the DoJ needs is a nod from Eric Holder.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
16. Snowden needs to make a bargain with the DOJ to give up names and information
Fri Oct 31, 2014, 06:54 PM
Oct 2014

To prosecuted others involved, if he doesn't have enough information to prosecute others then there will not be a deal.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
20. I think that if you become more informed about this issue you would agree
Sat Nov 1, 2014, 02:26 PM
Nov 2014

that Snowden has provided a great service to our country by what he has done and is not trying to "create havoc".

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
23. Unfortunetly I am informed, worked under the same conditions, it isnt hard
Sat Nov 1, 2014, 04:28 PM
Nov 2014

To know when to keep ones mouth shut except to authorized as need basis. If you want to praise the "hero" who revealed the phone call collection it would be George W Bush and seven years earlier.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
21. Worth remembering here within the swarm of corporate PR
Sat Nov 1, 2014, 02:30 PM
Nov 2014

trying to redefine patriotism as shutting up or restricting ourselves to obedient adulatory praise.
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