Telling America that it's stupid if it doesn't vote Democrat...

[sibelian]

Isn't terribly likely to get Americans to vote for Democrats.

That's what *I* think.

[tkmorris]

1. You're right

It's still true though.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

2. We're not telling Americans it's stupid for not voting Democratic, we're saying

Americans are stupid for electing bought-and-paid-for Koch henchmen.

[sibelian]

5. Yyyyyeah, but

that;s still not going to work, is it? Stupid people vote for all sorts of things, including various personalities on the left. It's no use blaming it on stupidity, loads of very stupid people vote for the left, trust me, I've met them!

[BlueStater]

6. Yep.

If you elect people who are only interested in helping the wealthy and clearly don't give a fuck about you, you ARE stupid.

[still_one]

3. probably not, but you are not going to convince them to vote Democratic either

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. and constantly punching Dem candidates makes

Us look like losers...

[whatchamacallit]

9. You're not actually trying to suggest

that some grousing on DU had something to do with yesterday's results are you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. do they actually have real lives... or do they only

Exist on DU?

And ALL some so-called Dems ever do is complain about them. Always making the good the enemy of the perfect..

[whatchamacallit]

15. Incoherent Babbling Phase initiated

[moriah]

23. How about an example?

When Blanche Lincoln, from my state, was primaried. People leveled huge attack ads against her, with money from out of state, trying to get a more liberal Senate candidate for Arkansas, an already mostly Republican state.

Leaving many voters from Arkansas on here to state that even if she won the primary, they wouldn't vote for her.

Well, she won the primary, people didn't support her, money from out of state that could have been used to keep a Senate seat in the D column had already been used to attack her instead of used to support the incumbent Democratic Senator, etc.

And she lost.

[JRLeft]

20. Exactly most people have no idea this site exists.

[moriah]

27. But DU is a reflection of the Democratic base, and therefore ...

... when I've gone off on people here for acting stupid, saying it will make Democrats look bad, it's less for what they say on-site but more when what they say carries over to the rest of their lives, where they're also probably spouting the same fucking nonsense.

[JRLeft]

30. I've learned to shut up about politics at work.

[whatchamacallit]

32. So, if that's how the base feels

maybe the party should examine why instead of trying to enforce conformity of message.

[moriah]

51. I was primarily referencing my rant about people spouting tinfoil-hattery nonsense...

... about Sarah Palin and the alleged parentage of her child.

[emulatorloo]

7. I don't think America reads DU

That being said, I agree with you.

Lots of factors re why we lost. IMHO mostly had to do with Koch and Rove Crossroads $$$$ to package extremist candidates as moderates. And a news media that refused to get beyond the glossy facade and report on these candidate's actual records and policy positions.

In other words, voters were sold a bill of goods.

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. is this the only website that happens on?

[sibelian]

17. We've got the same problem here in nthe UK, it had almost NO EFFECT on the Scottish INdpdendence

Referendum because grass-roots circumvented the mainstream altogether. Online vidoes, tweets, FB sharing, loads of social media influence brought us to within 400,000 votes of independence. The swing to "yes" was almost unimaginably strong and we had NO money and NO media on our side. It all came about through ordinary people choosing to share information.

We didn't let a single comment on a single message board go unchallenged. There was not ONE issue pertaining to independence that didn't have the grassroots contributing to the debate online, usually dominating it. We had packed town hall meetings. Even the conservatives were impressed! Ken Clarke (conservative) was so taken aback he lavished praise on Scotland during the result post-mortem on the referendum on the day after on the radio!

[emulatorloo]

39. Yes that is the way to do it.

[JEB]

8. Well, it ain't too damned smart.

On the other hand, nobody like to be told they are stupid. We need to do a better job of educating voters and building and presenting a case for our policies that make sense to people. Bernie Sanders comes to mind. He has his policy positions well thought out and presents the very accessible logic behind his choices. He has enjoyed support from conservative people throughout his career because his ideas just make sense.

[lame54]

10. but it feels soooooo good...

And that's all we got going for us today

[malthaussen]

11. "Democratic."

I think that there are probably a lot of older voters who remember the anti-intellectualism that was so prominent 40-odd years ago. Nixon and Agnew used to make political hay over the "queer Ivy-League Northeastern Elite's" condescension towards hard-working white folk. So I tend to cringe when I see DU posts knocking the intelligence and sophistication of voters who "vote against their interests." It might could be that those voters simply have a different assessment of their "interests" than do the people criticizing them. In any event, I agree with you that it certainly isn't going to make any converts, and thus must serve more to salve the egos of the "smart" ones than serve as any kind of basis for argument.

-- Mal

[maryellen99]

14. Not stupid but misinformed nt

[Rex]

16. Yet telling America that Obama is going to take away your guns any day now

does work for almost half the populace that votes! Go figure. I'm not saying they are stupid, but what do you call a person that doesn't live in reality most of the time and gets all their information from Stormfront and Foxnews?

[sibelian]

18. You call them what they ACTUALLY are. EXPLOITED.

You call them DISPOSSESSED.

You call them MANIPULATED.

You DON'T take it as an opportunity to place yourself on a pedestal above them. They're your countrymen, how can you expect them to be on your side if you refuse to side with THEM?

[Rex]

21. How am I to side with the GOP, while strongly opposing it?

What you type doesn't make any sense to me. I don't expect them to be on my side, why would they? Their views are diametrically opposite of mine, so again how do I side with the people that vote against ALL our own best interests?

Why would I put myself on a pedestal when all I am doing is pointing out how far into being delusional they have become? Is it wrong now to point out the obvious?

So you would side with the Tea Party? Good luck.

[sibelian]

25. You have chosen an enemy that you don't have to think about.

Unsurprisingly, they out-think you.

[Rex]

26. I have to think about them all the time, I live in Texas.

So again, your reply makes no sense.

[sibelian]

36. The Tea Party are not "the enemy".

Their core principle set is WILDLY unlike that image of them that is propagated in the snot-spraying culture of DU. They think all sorts of things. They're as exploited as everybody else! Also, they have almost no influence. Do you seriously believe that the Tea Party called the shots in this election? What's your evidence for that? There isn't any. You've just chosen a bloc of the opposition that lets you ignore the opposition in its entirety.

Focussing on how nasty the Republicans are is a waste of time.

To beat them, YOU NEED TO GET THEM TO VOTE FOR YOU.

[Rex]

37. Um...the Tea Party shutdown the government! Did you forget that or did not know about it?

Okay, so how do you get the Tea Party to vote for democratic candidates? I'm all ears.

[sibelian]

47. FFS NOT EVEN THE GOP want the Tea Party, stop obsessing about them!

It's no use moaning about the Tea Party, nobody voted for the TEA PARTY. The Dems didn't lose because of the mean ol' Republicans. The Dems lost because they don't give a fuck about their own base! Currently they HAVE no base.

Republicans = Tea Party just exonerates you from talking to Republicans that MIGHT vote for you. Incidentally, the Tea Party have lost interest in protests and are now campaigning for their candidates. Why isn't the left doing this?!??! Because whimpering about how "unfair" everything is is so much more rewarding...

Feeling sorry for yourself isn't going to change a damned thing. If they don't vote for you, you need to know WHY they don't vote for you. Incidentally, the scary, monstrous Tea Party opposed Obamacare and IT PASSED ANYWAY. They lost. It's ridiculous to be scared of them. They've dropped from 1000 to 600 chapters since 2010. They have NO influence.

What's the point in freaking out at Sarah Palin or the Tea Party? Why is that going to get you the votes of independents and pissed off Republicans who don't give a SHIT about the Tea Party or Sarah Palin?

[Rex]

48. So in other words, you have no idea. Thanks.

I just used the tea party as an example, please don't use them as a distraction for your inability to answer my question. Have fun with your hippie bashing...I should have figured out that is all you intended to do from the beginning.

Okay you have nothing...just like I thought.

[sibelian]

49. Read THIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025764711

[Rex]

52. Ah I C now, you live in Scotland...no wonder you don't have any answers to my question.

Last edited Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Your political and social system rose above vulture capitalism despite itself, that won't happen in America - we live in a plutocracy that the PTB decided long ago would maintain power and control over the country. And since people are not as important as corporations now - it will stay that way forever and a day.

You have to understand, America values perception over reality - been that way since Reagan. For you to really understand our political system - would require you to live in horrible red states like the one I live in. Hard to just speculate from the other side of the world imo.

This has nothing to do with ME being upset, try and look past the micro and look at the macro level here - we screwed ourselves last night as Americans. Why? Because a lot of Americans are willing to 'go along to get along' no matter how bad it gets economically for them. ALL they will do is blame the minorities or some other group for their own inaction or dissatisfaction. Until you can convince the person that votes against their own self best interest in every election, that what they are doing only hurts them and their family - you will have dullards that vote ONLY because the NRA told them who to vote for.

SORRY if you don't believe me, I guess that is the difference between speculating on a political system and having to live IN it.

[progressivebydesign]

28. Totally agree!!

I was reading some comments online last night, on various news threads on FB. And the ignorance was just brutal. I could not believe that these folks made it 50 or 60 years, held down jobs, raised kids, and could be so utterly stupid.

Between praising god for the win, they were just repeating the lies they hear on TV over and over. The problem is not with them, I suppose, but with Fox "news." These peeps truly believe that Fox "news" is ... well.. NEWS. I can think of no better way to say this than they have been brainwashed by Fox. Even if you took out partisan politics, their assertions were simply not true at all. Not a matter of a difference of opinion, it was just wrong.

That is the reason the Country has been so messed up, and why people who should know better than to vote against their own self interests, keeps electing people that shipped entire industries to China, laid off millions... and force them to pay exorbitant regional taxes to pay for the services they used to get for their money, so that billionaires and the Investor Class can pay little or no taxes on the biz they sent overseas.

[RobinA]

54. You Can

treat them like they are stupid, just don't CALL them stupid.

[Rex]

56. I live in south Texas, I would get beat up if I said how I feel to

almost all the people I work with or run into in this small rural town.

[Blue_Tires]

19. The tactic has a pretty good success rate when the other side uses it, though...

So go figure...

[sibelian]

22. Does it?

Do the people voting Republican think liberals are stupid? If so, why? You can't just point at someone and say "They're stupid" and expect everyone to believe you, there has to be something about the target that makes the accusation convincing. I know this is going to be hard to accept but people really DON'T just swallow everything they're told.

[Blue_Tires]

38. You underestimate the power of Fox News

and the countless number of RW extremists on local radio...

But conservatives playing the "You're stupid/un-American/a traitor/effeminate/weak if you vote Dem" -card dates back much longer than Fox News has been around...

[maryellen99]

42. and don't forget the pastor at their local mega church

They get told every Sunday that Obama is the anti Christ and that the Democratic party is a bunch of baby killers.

[JustAnotherGen]

53. Plus 1000

It absolutely has worked - they see themselves and the 'other'.

It's hard for people outside of us to see it - really see it.

[progressivebydesign]

31. Gore & Bill Clinton said media consolidation is the biggest threat to deomcracy

And they were right.. this was years ago. They were totally right. The corporate takeover of the media, and the free rein in which Fox and others are allowed to lie and opine, and pass it off as truth, is the biggest threat to us right now. Used to be that news stations HAD to run a disclaimer that something was an editorial. These folks are lied to every day by the media they are addicted to, and there is no safeguards. It's literally propaganda, with no controls.

[Blue_Tires]

41. Which make me very sad, since it was Clinton who signed the TeleCom Act of 1996

[progressivebydesign]

24. "America" isn't reading these threads...

"America" is watching, with the keen intensity of a slug, to see WHO gets custody of Honey Boo-Boo.

[MatthewStLouis]

55. Exactly!

I don't remember giving any speeches to the public at large about their stupidity. I will openly talk about (on DU and to people I discuss politics with) how stupid these people are for voting for republicans. Nothing wrong with the truth.

[Seeking Serenity]

29. I hate the argument that people who don't vote the way we do

are "voting against their own self-interest." That sounds so irritatingly elitist and condescending. "You poor benighted fool, you don't know what's best for you, bless your heart. But I do! I know what you and your family need even better than you do! Vote Team Blue!"

Infantilizing voters, who hold our political fortunes in our hands, doesn't seem too smart to me.

[RiffRandell]

33. That's exactly what a person is doing if they are on some form of state

assistance and votes Republican in GA...one of the states that refused (proudly!) the ACA's Medicaid expansion.



I

[Seeking Serenity]

40. I hear you. Honestly

It just sounds patronizing as hell to my ears. Someone who doesn't know me try to tell me that they know what's better for me and my family more than I do? That's going to get my back up.

[BlueStater]

34. Voting for a party that wants to cut SS is fucking stupid.

It's not elitist. It's a fact.

[progressivebydesign]

35. Could not disagree with you more on that.

Oh, unless there really ARE people who enjoy working 3 jobs at fast food places, because the RW they voted for gave tax breaks and incentives to ship entire industries to China. Or perhaps there are people out there who really do enjoy having no access to health care, and would prefer to die of a cancer that would have been caught had they been able to get preventive screening. Or perhaps there really are people out there that would enjoy having black air to breathe, and dirty water to drink.

Seriously, I don't play that false equivalency game. They are simply voting against their best interests, in favor of jacked up social issues that were used to hide the fact that they're getting screwed financially.

[badtoworse]

44. Could it be that some voters truly believe increased government dependency is bad in the long run?

[randys1]

43. Well, lets let the rest of the world do it then

[cheyanne]

45. Give me an analysis of "stupid".

When you call someone stupid you have given up on them. It doesn't give you any insight into what they are thinking and feeling and why they might feel that way and what may change their beliefs. Not helpful, is it?

People don't become stupid overnight. These people are our family, our friends, our countrypeople. They are no different as a group than any other group. Not talking income, education differences; but basic human alikeness.

These "stupid" people were doing very well after WWII as was everybody else in America. And they accepted their good fortune: buy a house, raise kids who will get a better education. And someone was praising them for being real Americans while warning them of all the enemies in the world they had to fight. The biggest enemies were those that were right at home: liberals and their minions (minorities) who were trying to ruin America.

When the economy cratered, who did these people turn to? The people who had been demonized for years? NOooo. THey turned to Republicans, the people who predicted the calamity and also told them who was to blame.

This is normal human behavior. Extremism and fear-mongering always rise during economic crises.

Prediction:

People who are extremists don't change their opinions, but as their cause continually loses traction with reality, some will get tired of losing and turn away. Others will harden and even turn to violence.

The surest way to fight the extremism is improving the economy, so they have a future to look forward to.

[treestar]

46. Rs do it

They have to be flattered? Or they will vote against their interests?

People in red states are stupid, or their states would not be red. (I mean their majority of course, not the DUers/liberal minorities in those states)

[Orsino]

50. Telling only seems to work when Big Money does it.

Seems to me our job has to become showing them a meaningful difference.

In numbers too big to ignore, etc.