"...people say Bob Dylan changed the world in the ’60s. He wrote some good tunes, and some people

[jtuck004]

who did actually end up changing the world probably hummed them a lot, but that’s not what changed the world.”

Jon Stewart, Here.

just one more reminder to myself that attributing cause to effect is a tricky business.

i forget that sometimes.

[SomethingFishy]

1. I agree with Stewart 95% of the time.. This is one where I disagree...

To someone who music isn't important to, yeah they are just "humming" the tunes, but for many people music is a lifeline. Now today is a little different as you can instantly talk to anyone almost anywhere in the world. We have been divided up into little marketable groups.

Back when Dylan was emerging, for many he was the voice of reason and understanding. The only voice. He saw what was coming.. You have to remember that back then people were lucky to get a shitty signal from some far off station, on AM! No internet no iPods hell they hadn't even invented 8-Track tapes yet.. Getting to hear Dylan, if you couldn't afford records, was no easy task..

Now Dylan might not have "changed the world" but he certainly guided they way a generation thinks. To dismiss what he did as "made some hummable tunes" shows a lack of understanding of the times and the people.. which were a changing

And just FYI I was just a little kid in Dylan's era, but I had my own musicians who shaped my life.

[tweeternik]

4. +1

[jtuck004]

7. I do remember. I was there as a young teenager. We had a thing called records. And AM was very

good in Oklahoma City with KOMA and their ~100,000 watt signal.

It was so good you could hear it on the phone at my cousins house about 3 miles away.

But just like any art, it is what the listener takes from it. Dylan was inspirational, but to me no more than many others and not as much as some. For you, more, eh? That's how the world works. That's not a knock, but songs motivate - they don't carry the clipboards and sign people up and get hit in the head with rocks or worse or start businesses and teach classes. He is an artist in his trade. But one of thousands of influences.

Dylan was one of a whole bunch of people - he may have been it for you, but that doesn't mean he was anything for some one else. I got as much out of the old IWW songs and Woody Guthrie Sr.. as I got out of Dylan. Then again, I wasn't a well off white kid with a mom and a dad and some oil money like him, so maybe for me I don't see much similarity or get as much from what he thought was important.

Songs are inspirational, but mostly they motivate people who are open to be motivated, whether they know it or not - and that is its power. Especially in organizing, music has been important. It encourages people to have a connection, sometime to action, but they still have to move their own feet. When we are young it is one of the strong humanizing influences (stupid country to allow the de-funding of music and theater), but it takes people willing to link arms with others and sing the songs, and fight the fight to make the change.

But songs don't carry the clipboards, or pull the levers, or get hit in the head, or start businesses and teach classes to encourage people to free themselves like the people here do.

In my view the sale is made closer to home. I didn't see Stewart's comment as a slight and still don't, but there are lots of views in the world. That's one of the things that makes it interesting.

[SomethingFishy]

8. As I said, Dylan was before my time..

Roger Waters was my guy. And I did say that Dylan might not have changed the world per se'...

You were lucky if you had good radio or could afford records. Not all of us could...

Let me give you a personal example of what I was trying to say.

The final line in the Pink Floyd song Us and Them goes like this:

"Out of the way, it's a busy day, I got things on my mind,
for want of the price, of tea and a slice, the old man died".

Now when I was young that first line described me. But one day when I was really listening to the song, I realized I was walking past homeless people like they didn't exist. From that day on I tried to help where I can. Now who knows if any of the spare change or the couple bucks or the occasional $20 changed anyones life or not, but that one moment in that one song changed my view forever. And because my view was changed, lots of homeless have had one more beer, or smoke, or meal...

Music has the power to change people. Not everyone, but those that pay attention...

[jtuck004]

9. Music has the power to change people who want to change, just like anything else.

People learn in different ways - something the schools with the mass production approach cater to very poorly.

Educational research is pretty clear that - some learn better through auditory channels, some tactile, some vision...we all have a pathway that works better for us And if the info isn't presented in that form, it isn't as likely to have an impact as the one which is stronger.

It's just easier to hear people change with music, but they are no different than the person who reads a copy of Marx and find themselves looking at and analyzing the world in a new way.

Books, and relationships are easily just as powerful in their own right, but without all the money and glitter that makes people who paw at shiny things pay attention.

[SomethingFishy]

12. "Without all the money and glitter"...

I work in the music industry. Believe me money and glitter are not part of my gig.. LMAO.. And don't take that wrong, I wouldn't trade my job for anything, even if I can't get good money.. There is a level of satisfaction in bringing people enjoyment on a nightly basis. Even if they are folks who "paw at shiny things".

And yeah I have changed things in my life thanks to books, relationships, films, art.. all have shaped my world view, it does not make my point any less valid. The only reason I didn't bring it up was because we aren't discussing the merits of other art forms we are talking about music.

Just because you view music with some level of distain does not mean it did not affect others in a positive way, as many in this thread have attested. If you would rather discuss the books that warped my world view I would be thrilled. Tomorrow Gotta bail at the moment, the wife is giving me the "how fucking long are you going to be on DU" look

Cheers

[jtuck004]

14. Joe Hill...

I like the poetry of telling us the music, and perhaps the performers never go away until we let them.

I like the line you quoted

Said, "bullets are like waves, they only rearrange the sand
History turns upon the tides and not the deeds of man"

suggesting we keep our egos in check is good advice, I think.

But we are about to turn the world into a crispy critter and all the tides green, and then dead brown, perhaps. So we can keep going to the seventy leven and getting slurpees 24 x7.

Deeds of men...speaking of deeds, I have to go water some plants.

Thank you for that.

[jtuck004]

17. and the, while I am watering I think..

"History turns upon the tides and not the deeds of man"

and the old flyers for "1000 Men Wanted to Fill The Jails Of Spokane", and think maybe I read it too literally the first time.

Maybe trying to say it turns on a tide of people, not just one. Lots of way to take meanings, or nothing, which is the power, perhaps.

Yeah, I tried optimism once, but it didn't really work out. So without giving up I try to be a realist, which helps me look at problems in a more clinical light, because I have to come up with solutions. Then if I am pleasantly surprised, I get to have a party.

[BeyondGeography]

3. That's a woeful understatement of the power of music

Change always has a soundtrack. One of the best things I ever heard on public radio was a program called, "The Power of Communal Song," which was about the impact of gospel and folk music on black culture and the civil rights movement. Bob Dylan? I wasn't there, but if I was feeling a stir in my bones and I turned on the radio to hear Hard Rain's Gonna Fall, I'd say, "See?" Validation, right there.

[hunter]

5. Bob Dylan changed my world, that's for sure.

Best breakup song ever.

And we did change the world

It ain’t no use to sit and wonder why, babe
It don’t matter, anyhow
An’ it ain’t no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don’t know by now
When your rooster crows at the break of dawn
Look out your window and I’ll be gone
You’re the reason I’m trav’lin’ on
Don’t think twice, it’s all right

http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/dont-think-twice-its-all-right

[CBGLuthier]

6. I do not think that Mr. Dylan took himself nearly as serious as his fans do

I think he was a tunesmith who found words to match melodies and sang songs that felt right but without any real political thought of his own. Kind of like Lennon.

[Historic NY]

10. He hates being surrounded by idiots...

yup I know how he feels except I have less patience.

[bbgrunt]

11. Dylan wrote the soundtrack to

my life. His voice, sentiments and music just went directly into my soul. I found a connection I could trust to be true despite his many changes. His music was always a quest for meaning and honesty. I will always feel privileged to have his influence in my life.

[greendog]

13. Wrote some good tunes...

He changed the way tunes are written. Most of the great songwriters after Dylan owe their careers to the universe he created. Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Tom Waits, Gordon Lightfoot,,, Townes Van Zandt, Gram Parsons, Kris Krisofferson and all the songwriters who've been influenced by by any or all of them.

Saying Dylan "wrote some good tunes" is like saying Galileo farted around with a telescope.

[spanone]

18. dylan was much of the 60's. the voice. the soul.

he changed a lot