Howard Dean: Obamacare Written By "Elitists" Who "Don't Fundamentally Understand The American People

[former9thward]

On MSNBC's Morning Joe today, Howard Dean had a terse reaction to Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber's recently unearthed comments about the "stupidity" of the American voter in regards to passing the legislation.

"The problem is not that he said it. The problem is that he thinks it. I'm serious. The core problem under this damn law is that it was put together by a bunch of elitists who don't really fundamentally understand the American people. That's what the problem is," Dean, a doctor, said Wednesday.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/12/howard_dean_obamacare_written_by_elitists_who_dont_fundamentally_understand_the_american_people.html

[JI7]

1. and Hillary Does ?

[HereSince1628]

3. I can't say, but I wouldn't expect so...she's too close to the DLC

which was a by invitation only club of good old boys who considered themselves the Democratic elite

[wyldwolf]

4. what does this have to do with Hillary?

[elleng]

5. Nothing.

Thanks.

[shenmue]

6. Nothing

[jalan48]

14. She's more of the Same

She's a leading contender to be the next President. How is she different than Obama or any other elite in the Democratic Party?

[wyldwolf]

15. the OP is about Howard Dean.

[jalan48]

17. It's about elites in the Democratic Party

[wyldwolf]

18. It's about a statement Howard Dean made, and your reply was a pathetic attempt to swipe at Hillary

Poor guy. Some much froth.

[jalan48]

19. Why?

I am just commenting on the issue of elites in the Democratic Party. I think Hillary falls into that camp. I'm not interested in pretending another Third Way Democrat is the answer. I have enough proof already that it hasn't worked for Progressives. Why did we wind up with Obamacare? That's what this is about.

[wyldwolf]

23. I dunno. Who knows why some people bring Hillary into every discussion?

[jalan48]

26. It's a big mystery I guess

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

92. She's not "more of the same". She's WORSE!!

[jalan48]

101. LOL

I wouldn't disagree with your assessment.

[BeanMusical]

104. She sure is. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

20. Surely you jest ...

"I am a huge Hillary Clinton fan," Dean told CNN in an interview. "I just am. Not because I hope to get a job. I know her; I've known her for a long time. I think she has an enormous mental capacity to do analysis and let the chips fall where they may."
"If she is president, which I hope she is, I think she is going to be a terrific president," added Dean, who stopped into Clinton's book signing event in the Hamptons last weekend and posed for a picture with the former secretary of state.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/politics/howard-dean-hillary-clinton-2016/

[wyldwolf]

24. Keep digging

[adirondacker]

28. I think they are referring to Dean's recent endorsement for Hillary as our next candidate.

[wyldwolf]

31. they may be referring to it, but that has nothing to do with the OP.

[adirondacker]

40. I agree, It wasn't the first thing that popped into my head.

I was thinking more along the lines of who isn't considered "elite" that runs in these circles. Technocrats and bureaucrats would have sufficed.

[ReRe]

33. JI7 was probably remembering...

... Howard Dean's answer to a Chuck Todd's question on Sunday about if he was going to run and he answered no, that he would be supporting Hillary Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

42. could be, but has nada to do with the OP.

[ReRe]

48. Of course it doesn't...

... but this kind of come-back is used on this board, ad nauseum. I don't understand it's use, and normally go on down the road.

[Ned_Devine]

59. Howard Dean supports Hillary in 2016 if she runs

I think that was the point trying to be made. It could make things interesting for her.

[billhicks76]

34. He'll No...She's even worse.

And has to go away soon if we have any hope. Anyone thinking she will be better or even inevitable is not think clearly or dynamically. Thinks change as time is fluid.

[sabrina 1]

67. No, Hillary supported what eventually passed during the campaign. She was FOR Mandated Insurance, a

real gift to the Private Health Corps who were in trouble financially when Americans began to lose their jobs AND their HC.

That was on of about three reasons why I supported Obama over Hillary. HE did NOT support Mandated Insurance and was excellent at explaining why.

But then he flip flopped after the election and took Hillary's position and eventually got what she had campaigned on, passed.

So there is no doubt she doesn't understand the people's needs, or something called 'the common good'.

[KingCharlemagne]

76. Obama really had no choice, since his 60-vote filibuster-proof Senate majority

depended on keeping the likes of Lieberbush and Baaaaaaachus on board. Those two putzes are the main reason we got the ACA we did, rather than a version with a more robust public option (or any public option).

Am I mis-remembering the Senate constellation at the time?

Dean's statement: "The core problem under this damn law is that it was put together by a bunch of elitists who don't really fundamentally understand the American people." The 'elitists' who put the law together have a cynical understanding of the American people, one I'm sure Hillary shares, witness her vote to invade and occupy Iraq back in 2002-03. See, just as with Iraq, the elites just KNOW what's best for us. These are the same elites who brought us Iraq and, before that, Vietnam. But no matter.

[sabrina 1]

89. Airc, there were no Republican votes for the ACA.

Months were spent trying to get at least ONE. But in the end, it was all Democrats if I am remembering correctly.

I can't imagine LBJ or FDR tolerating the likes of Lieberman or Baucus. Lieberman was not a Dem at the time, and yet, the Dems gave this traitor to the Dem Party a standing ovation after he quit the party when the voters tossed him in his own state, and switching parties to become an Independent. Not only did they put on that despicable betrayal of Dem voters, the gave him CHAIRS of Committees in the Dem Party.

Yes, I know, the story was 'we need him'. But did they? Or was the whole thing nothing but a way for the 'elitists' as Dean calls them, to get what they wanted, whether it was Dems or Republicans who gave it to them?

They didn't even try to get Lieberman to understand that if he wasn't on board for what the voters were promised, he would lose his Committee Chairs eg.

There simply was no fight.

Hillary will play up the 'women, minority' issues, but on everything else she is on board with the policies Democrats opposed for over a decade, working to elect Dems in order to end them.

I will never support her. If she is the nominee I have a feeling a lot of Dem voters will write in a Presidential candidate and put their energies into the Congressional Races and Local Elections.

[2banon]

110. I remember that in the primary debate. She said mandate, Obama disagreed on Mandate

it's really too bad he didn't stay with that and didn't go for public option if he didn't intend to go for single payer (politically understandably)

It was apparent to me that Big Insurance rip off industry, AMA, and Big Pharma held the reigns on this and owned the Senate members crafting the bill. obviously.

[MH1]

2. Ah, I love the smell of a circular firing squad in the evening.

[ReRe]

36. Channeling Alfred Hitchcock this evening?

[treestar]

44. Exactly.

Why the hell is he dissing it? It's the best we could do and is progress.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

93. Again, either Dr. Dean is smoking weed or he's schizophrenic. He just castigated Democrats for

running away from Obama's record. He's been touting the ACA for several years, and going around the country for months, saying how great the ACA is.

Now, all of the sudden, he goes on Morning Ho's show to shit on the ACA? Why? Especially knowing that the law is being scrutinized before the SCOTUS. Why would he do that?

[2banon]

111. discussing policy issues isn't a circular execution.

this is actually important.

[riderinthestorm]

7. Agreed. The elites don't truly understand how financially precarious most Americans are today

The deductibles and co-pays are potentially catastrophic for many Americans. The whole "out of network" loophole that allows people to be socked with many thousands of dollars if an ER or ER doc isn't in network (and you're unconscious or too sick to check) and many other problems with this bill revolve around the lack of understanding of how real Americans are living now.

[bigwillq]

8. Good post.

[mindwalker_i]

10. We are the ATMs of the elites

Our job is to give them money when they feel the need to increase their profits. The elites saw that us people had stuff, like money from paychecks or retirement funds, so they figured out how they could get a hold of that. Then the found out some of us had houses which were worth money, so they figured out how to get that too.

Get your ass in front of a TV!

[billhicks76]

35. Elizabeth Warren Please

It's all about hating Obama and being plugged into the FOX News Noise Machine. The division keeps us all from teaming up to change the sad state of things. But the irony is that if people looked under the hood they would realize the Bush Cabal is and always has been in power through the Military/Surveillance/MassIncarceration Contractor Complex just like a real Republican, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, warned. He knew these traitors firsthand. But a closer look under the hood would reveal that Obama and Clinton serve them too and are underlings of Bush Sr and Dick Cheney, the middle managers watching over the clerks. Everything we hear about hating Obama is a joke designed to distract people. He works directly for Bush. The only time a Bush doesn't want to be at the helm is when they feel the need to have a fall guy fronting for them when there is a liberal backlash from the last Presidency. It's much like how high level banking families and industrialists choose a guy like Bush to front for them so people don't casually know their names or faces or where they live. Expect them to install Jeb Bush next as Obama has let the rehabilitation of that family name go unchecked just as Clinton did covering for Bush Sr crimes. The Bush name was lower than dirt in 2008 to the point that the only Republicans even supporting him were the 20% Evangelicals who bought into that he was a Christian after he stopped being an alcoholic and cokehead. The weird thing about Truth is that for something so precious, valuable and scarce the supply still exceeds the demand.

[bvar22]

119. It took a Democrat....

...to cut-the-power to the 3rd Rail of politics.
[i\](touch Social Security & you DIE)

TPTB also needed a Democrat to co-sign the Bush Invasion of Iraq, torture as a National Policy, War Criminals, Permanent WAR, the Patriot Act, and the new supra-constitutional powers of the "Unitary Executive".

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. No, it is NOT our job to give them money.

It's our job to give them money with a smile on our faces and pleading intonations of gratitude and supplication.

GET IT RIGHT, SERF!

If you know what's good for you.

[840high]

22. +1

[antigop]

27. and the people on DU who keep claiming the deductibles are affordable live in a different world than

the average Joe.

It doesn't do you any good to have health insurance you can't use.

[magical thyme]

53. there are people on DU who have bragged about how ACA saves them more money each year

than many of us *earn* in a year. It's incredibly galling to know that I am subsidizing *their* health insurance.

I'm paying the penalty this year. I will pay the penalty next year. We will see about the year after that. I will pay whichever is cheapest, and save what I can in case I actually need some health care. If I need a lot of health care, I'm screwed with or without insurance.

[KingCharlemagne]

78. The out of pocket maximum deductible on our bronze plan (either $10,000 or

$12,000) will put us into bankruptcy should a medical emergency hit. Oh well.

[2banon]

109. Am I correct in thinking you meant Insurance we can't PAY as opposed to Insurance we can't "use" ?

Completely agree with your premise. that's why I asked the question..I like to try to avoid making assumptions....

It doesn't do you any good to have health insurance you can't use.

[LuvNewcastle]

30. Exactly right.

Obamacare is an example of how broken our system is. That's the most they would allow us to have. We can't allow repeal because that would be the end of any kind of health reform in this country. The best we can hope for is to have it fixed.

[malokvale77]

41. I don't believe it is fixable.

It hurts at least as many as it helps. Surely this country can do better.

Never mind.

[magical thyme]

56. +1,000,000 nt

[RufusTFirefly]

66. +1,000! It's not entirely their fault, but the elites definitely don't get this.

They're so far removed from the reality of ordinary Americans that even creative, empathetic Americans can't fully comprehend it.

[fadedrose]

84. But it's fixable . . .

if they don't repeal it, or SCOTUS finds too much wrong with it.

It was a much-needed beginning to solving a big problem.

[BlindTiresias]

9. Don't understand and don't give a damn.

Very typical elite decay.

[Doctor_J]

11. Racist! Didn't get his pony! Doesn't understand how government works! Needs a civics class!

Greenwald! Firebagger! Perfect is enemy of the shitty! Probably lying about voting for Obama!

[malokvale77]

43. I think you understand a bit too much.

You will be reprimanded soundly.

[TBF]

71. You forgot one -

"Let's see how you like President Romney"

But I think you got all the others

[Liberal_Dog]

102. And He Is A Putin Lover!!

How could you forget that one?

[progressoid]

103. And chess. He doesn't know how to play chess.

[jalan48]

12. Single Payer

I knew Obama wasn't a progressive when he took single-payer off the table. Didn't even allow a debate on its merits. He talks a good game but when the chips are down he goes corporate.

[pnwmom]

13. The elitists are the people who are willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good

while millions continue to go without healthcare.

Yes, single-payer would be better. But the ACA, as it is working, is far better than the nothing we had four years ago.

[Fuddnik]

32. Something that is better than nothing, that you can't afford to use is nothing.

Same result, different name.

[pnwmom]

37. It isn't the fault of the Dems that people in Rethug states don't have expanded Medicaid.

For the vast majority, the subsidies have made insurance affordable. (And when it isn't, they're not mandated to buy it.)

[malokvale77]

52. Do you know that the state of Texas...

liens child support payments to pay for any medicaid anyone in the family uses?

I guess if they expand it we can expect them to lien our Social Security.

[dflprincess]

68. The higher the income the lower the subsidy until a person doesn't qualify for a subsidy at all

and just because someone's income is too high for a subsidy doesn't mean they can afford to buy insurance they can actually use.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. That's what people used to say when pushing 'civil unions the only pragmatic solution'

'Wanting marriage equality is just letting the perfect be the enemy of the good."

I got really tired of it back then.

[pnwmom]

50. Civil unions were the beginning that led to marriage equality in more than 30 states today.

Last edited Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:10 AM - Edit history (1)

So that might not be the best example.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

94. Actually, it was a great example because Dr. Dean pushed for civil unions himself.

And someone could have criticized him for not going all out for gay marriage. Instead, they understood that civil marriage was the best he could do at that time and under those political circumstances and that political climate.

Dr. Dean was given the benefit of the doubt.

The negro Muslim Kenyan in the White House? Not so much. He has to be perfectly liberal on every single issue or he's a failure, charlatan, and will never, ever be good enough for these people.

It's fucking ridiculous. I've never seen anything like this before.

[HereSince1628]

98. IIRC people got seriously abraided on DU for suggesting civil unions

were a solution at all.

They were talked about as if they were appeasement that fell well short.

It's as if all that was just sturm and drang, that had nothing to do with the actually push to marriage equality.

Marriage equality moved forward because civil unions were not seen as even a half solution.

The same might be said of ACA and any future national uniform civil healthcare. We will get to a single-payer system that covers everyone and is available in every jurisdiction only if most people see the ACA as inadequate. If it is accepted as a solution we'll never have a reason to take steps to advance to there.

As a person in a state that didn't expand medicare, it's discouraging as hell to see people argue the ACA's patchwork structure (resulting in some states with approved insurance that includes no hospitalization, resulting in some states with no subsidies or credits for the poorest people who -should- have been it's target), is anything like a national solution for all.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

39. Well, yes!

people who are actually benefiting from it won't like it if the GOP tries to strip it.

[IronLionZion]

60. there are elitists on this very board hoping for bad things to happen to us

to teach us some sort of sick lesson.

The ACA is a thing that exists, insurance has strong regulations, and millions have gained access to care when they didn't before. Not enough people realize that the people rooting for the ACA to fail, are the losers who have already failed spectacularly.

Single payer supporters have most definitely FAILED to bring us single payer, and act as if we're all just too stupid to realize its better than the current system. Maybe they'll beat the skeleton of the dead horse into dust. Ask any one of them what is their plan to bring us single payer.

Conservative opponents have FAILED to stop people from signing up for insurance plans or getting treatments for their pre-existing conditions without lifetime caps.

[pnwmom]

61. +1 n/t

[Doctor_J]

100. And others who insist that bad things are really good things.

[IronLionZion]

126. So, what's your plan Doc?

And how's it working out for you?

[Doctor_J]

70. And some are willing to let the disastrous be the enemy of the good

The ACA is the biggest giveaway of tax money to corporations in history. How much would be too much to give Big Insurance for the worst healthcare in the developed world? As it stands the ACA locks them in for about a half trillion per year, every year, forever (legally - they will probably steal more). What would you consider too much, given that we still have the worst care among the rich nations?

[pnwmom]

77. They have had their profits restricted to 15% and are not part of the Medicaid expansion.

They are under regulations that never applied before.

The ACA is not a disaster.

[NCTraveler]

105. What was BCBS profit % the years before the ACA was passed?

Looking to see how much the 15% mark reigned in their extreme profits for providing insurance.

[pnwmom]

106. The non-profits were still free to deny insurance to millions, and to kick people off

their insurance when they developed serious conditions like cancer.

Under the ACA, they can't deny anyone due to preexisting conditions and they must provide the Essential Benefits, including check-ups and vaccinations, at no cost.

[NCTraveler]

107. Not sure what that has to do with the post I replied to, or my reply itself.

I think your reply was meant for someone else. The post I addressed was about profits, as was my post.

[IronLionZion]

96. Is it?

By most measures, the quality of care in our country has always been good, the problem was paying for the high costs. Now that millions more Americans have a way to pay for the care, you're jealous that some are getting more money?

Why ignore all the regulations on insurance, the new nonprofit co-ops, and the medicaid expansion? Are you bothered that hospitals are getting more money too?

If you hate our health care system so much, them maybe its time to move?

[magical thyme]

75. better for some. far, far worse for others.

I feel for the people who bought health insurance only to find they don't have any money left over for any actual healthcare.

But I'm sure it's much better for the DUer who saved over $20,000/year in insurance premiums. More than many other DUers make in a year.

[pnwmom]

79. More people have benefited than haven't, except in the red states. n/t

[magical thyme]

80. Prove it. nt

[Doctor_J]

99. Actually the elitists are those who successfully sell chicken crap as chicken salad

Like the ACA, the "recovery", austerity, TPP, and so forth. When I see posts on DU about how the Dems should be bragging about lowering the deficit, while wages and benefits continue to plunge and poverty is still on the rise, I shake my head and realize that we (the party and the proletariat) won't be making a comeback during my lifetime (15 more years or so).

[True Blue Door]

16. Says the guy who never understood Americans enough to get elected to federal office

let alone pass anything through it.

But his precious opinions are surely a more significant contribution to American healthcare than...actual healthcare provided under ACA.

[malokvale77]

47. The ACA doesn't provide healthcare to anyone.

It does allow health insurance to some and punishes many for not having any.

[True Blue Door]

63. You make distinctions that obscure reality, not reveal it.

Because of ACA, millions have healthcare who couldn't otherwise = ACA provides healthcare.

[IdiocracyTheNewNorm]

127. To be factually correct..........

Because of ACA, millions have access to healthcare who couldn't otherwise = ACA provides access to healthcare.

[True Blue Door]

128. Fair enough.

[magical thyme]

55. says a doctor who has actually provided healthcare

as opposed to insurance 1%ers who take your money in exchange for nothing, and policy wonks who aid and abet them.

[True Blue Door]

64. Millions of people have healthcare because of ACA that couldn't otherwise.

[magical thyme]

69. and I have a choice between paying $2,500+ to the same fucking insurance company

that left me to die when I was septic or paying the penalty and having $2,500+ to spend on actual health care should I need it.

I'm paying the penalty. Harvard Health can go fuck themselves.

Insurance companies do NOT provide health care. They are leeches. Harvard Health gave me a death sentence. My dentist saved my life, and I paid him, a nutritionist and counselor out of pocket to help me recover.

[True Blue Door]

82. ACA is incomplete. But you must have heard from people here and elsewhere

whose lives were saved because of ACA. The fact that it doesn't help you doesn't make it bad or worthless.

If my state didn't already have me on a great plan, it would probably be helping me.

[magical thyme]

85. and I've heard from people here who were all excited to have health insurance

and suddenly needed health care and realized they didn't have any money left over to pay for it.

Spare me. I work in health care. I have co-workers who also can't afford health insurance. Luckily we know how to provide for ourselves or we'd be shit out of luck delivering a service we can't afford to buy.

[True Blue Door]

87. We've already established that it doesn't help 100% of people.

We've also laboriously established ever since it passed that it does help millions of people, and reduces insurance costs for most of the country, notwithstanding a perpetual torrent of lies and propaganda from the GOP. Now what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

[TBF]

72. But can they pay for it?

Can they pay the premiums? The co-pays? Can they actually use it?

I'm not saying it should be repealed but a country this size needs a basic single payer system - Tricare or Medicare could easily be expanded to cover all. And yes we will cut military a bit to pay for it. Maybe even raise taxes on the uber-wealthy a bit. Maybe we could consider not bailing out investment bankers who steal money from us .. that would free up some cash.

It's all in your priorities.

[True Blue Door]

83. Of course we should have single-payer, but we haven't yet elected a Congress that would pass it.

And we know damn well that a Supreme Court under the control of lawless fascist revolutionaries would simply strike down a single-payer system even if it were passed.

We haven't done the political ground work to create a single-payer system. Until we do, faulting politicians is just moot.

[TBF]

97. OK, I am always open to ideas

what kind of "political ground work" do you think is needed?

I saw many folks both on DU and here locally working their asses off. Wendy Davis supporters came to my door - they were out working hard despite the crushing defeat.

Agree with your comments about the Court as well. What is your take on how to do this (short of revolution ourselves - which is kind of where I think we are headed).

[2banon]

113. Well Said TBF

[2banon]

116. distorting the distinctions doesn't help make your case.

The difference between understanding Americans (as in citizens)and the political establishment in Washington which includes the corporate media owned by the very class Dean is criticizing, hardly makes your point.

That comment also completely and incorrectly disregards, dismisses Dean's work as DNC chair engaging American citizens in all 50 states with very successful results.

All his efforts reversed when the established elites through him and us under the bus.

[True Blue Door]

129. There are no excuses for failure in politics.

Last edited Fri Nov 14, 2014, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)

He couldn't implement the policies he wanted because he failed to run a campaign that would win, period.

His work as DNC chair didn't outlast his time as chairman because he didn't create a strong political foundation for it, period.

He failed, period.

We failed too, but our failure does not excuse his, nor vice-versa.

I do credit him with one success - his 50 state policy gave the majority that allowed the passage of Obamacare. But since he apparently denounces Obamacare, by his own standards his failure is total.

[Ykcutnek]

21. It's working wonders here in Kentucky.

To ACA critics I say: GFY.

[leftofcool]

46. + a gadzillion

I love our Governor.

[Dollysmom]

25. Gruber

Wasn't he the architect of Romneycare, not Obamacare?

[RufusTFirefly]

29. Dean is obviously off message

The script states that we must do everything to differentiate Obamacare from Romneycare for fear that failure to do so will ultimately lead us to the origin of both systems, a Republican plan.

Thank you for getting us back on track.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

49. Both. Which should have been our first clue. nt

[Throd]

51. It was written by people who don't have to sweat such details.

[malokvale77]

58. ^^^ this ^^^

You get it.

[adirondacker]

65. And they are masters of their craft. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

54. LMFAO. The undoing of Dean's campaign in '04 was his lack of understanding of the American people.

Dean's entire campaign was supported by elite white liberals in 2004 and not every day people. It's why it imploded in Iowa and he could never gain traction among blacks and ethnic whites.

What a joke.

[donco]

57. Maybe Doctor Dean

is sticking his toe in the ring.I hope so.

[brooklynite]

74. Someone who couldn't get people to vote for him in 04 and thinks Hillary is a good choice in 16?

Interesting choice.

[2banon]

114. I would support his run..

Hillary supporters engage in distorting campaign events in 2004, ignore and dismiss his magnificent and herculean 50 State strategy and efforts as DNC Chair, would appear to have extremely short memories or counting on that others have short memories to further promote the notion that HRC is the only viable candidate for 2016. Blahhh..

[SHRED]

62. Put up Dean

Run in 2016.

[renegade000]

73. i normally appreciate Dean's input, but this is extremely counterproductive

It's one thing to criticize the ACA while educating people as to superior alternatives (i.e. single-payer) that can be achieved if we rejected the conservative fear-mongering and were perhaps more bold, it's another to basically appear to buy into the right-wing populist frame of the issue...

[fadedrose]

81. Now I understand

why Obama didn't appoint him to anything. He's an idiot.

The problem wasn't with elitists who wrote the "damn" law, it was the elitists who would not vote for anything in the way of healthcare for the uninsured, that would be half the Senate and House. Miracle it passed. It needs tweaking, I used to think that Howard could fix it with his concern for universal health.

Obama ran on a healthcare platform. That's why he won. I never expected it to be perfect, but thought that over time it would get lots of amendments to make it as good. It was a start. Saw him on TV a couple of nights ago. He told me with big really silly grin that he supports Hillary for president.

Last month I removed his photo as my avatar that I've had since I joined DU. Good riddance, Doctor.

[RufusTFirefly]

86. Hooray!!! Good for you! I mean, what could a doctor possibly know about health care?!

We'll set that pesky "physician" straight!

Go! Go! Go!
U-S-A! U-S-A!

[former9thward]

88. Ran on a healthcare platform?

He ran against the individual mandate.

[fadedrose]

90. He was sly

He said what the others said, that persons should be made to purchase insurance (mandate), but disagreed that it should be taken from their wages if they could not afford it - he said the government would have to offer subsidies for those folks who couldn't afford it, saying that Mass. had 20% uninsured and were asked to pay fines, which made it worse than not having health care.

You have to remember that the strongest opposition came from insurance companies. They had to think they were in on the national health care plan. This was probably done on purpose, and Obama may have thought that after it was enacted, people would love it, and go for single payer. But in the meantime, the govt. would pay premiums to private companies FOR the poorest. Some people ended paying more because they had crummy plans.

[Autumn]

130. Sly? What happened to "the bill I sign must contain a strong public option" ? Mandate?

Against it before he was for it? Gruber was right the “lack of transparency” and the “stupidity of the American voter” were “really critical” in moving the landmark legislation through Congress.

Candidate Obama said many things "before" he was elected, sly certainly isn't the word I would use though.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

91. I don't understand Howard Dean. He went around the country defending the ACA.

Now he's damning it. He admits that its working, but then goes on Morning Heaux, of all shows, and condemns it?

He castigates Democrats for running away from Obama during the election, then turns around and goes on that asshole's show to "run away from Obama"?

None of that makes sense, really.

[nitpicker]

95. The changes in the implementation would confuse most tax pros

Except those who lecture on the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act for a living.

I attended such (professional) training yesterday to get a leg up on volunteer tax season.

The IRS volunteer training manuals (issued just last month) say "if your employer offers self-only insurance, it's affordable if it costs up to 8% of household income."

Surprise! As part of "employer transition" for 2014 and 2015, it's now "up to 9.5%".

If you refuse to take "affordable" employer insurance, you (usually) have to make the shared responsibility payment if you have to file a tax return. I can see potentials for confusion, as draft Form 8965 lets people claim "unaffordability" if the premium is above 8% of household income...

[Chathamization]

108. Not sure I see the problem? Gruber seems to be arguing that politically, saying there's a new tax or

that there is going to be wealth re-distribution is a non-starter, so they tried to avoid directly saying either. I'm not sure I agree with him (or disagree with him, for that matter), but it doesn't seem particularly outrageous.

[former9thward]

112. Well, when you call voters "stupid" it can be a problem politically.

Gruber sits in an ivory tower so he doesn't care about real-life politics. Candidates do have that burden.

[Chathamization]

115. An economist not being diplomatic when they voice their position on policy isn’t particularly

shocking, to me at least. It seems a bit of a non-story “ACA economist speaking off the cuff says that public opposition or support to something based solely on its name might be called the stupidity of voters by some.” I’m not really surprised that conservatives are running with it, but liberals really shouldn’t be joining them.

[former9thward]

117. No, that is not what he said.

Jonathan Gruber, who helped craft the controversial law, was heavily criticized this week after video of him surfaced saying a “lack of transparency” and the “stupidity of the American voter” were “really critical” in moving the landmark legislation through Congress.

“The American voters are too stupid the understand the difference,” the Obamacare architect said in the 5-second clip taken in October 2013.

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes,” Gruber said in one 52-second clip. “If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.”

Gruber then trumpeted the value of a “lack of transparency” — and called American voters stupid.

“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” Gruber said. “And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/11/11/obamacare-consultant-under-fire-for-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-comment/

[Chathamization]

118. Eh…that seems to be exactly what he said. 1. They didn’t want the mandate to be scored as a tax, so

they wrote the bill in such a way that it wouldn’t be. 2. They didn’t want to come out and say “the healthy will pay for the sick”, so they obfuscated that. 3. Avoiding calling the mandate a tax or directly saying that the healthy would pay for the sick, was needed for the law to pass - “call it the stupidity of the American voter if you like.”

You say it isn’t what he said, and then, uh…quote him saying the exact same thing?

[former9thward]

120. He is calling the American people stupid.

That will really fly in campaigns. Maybe you are in an ivory tower yourself... Or you just don't give a shit about elections.

[Chathamization]

121. Again, "An economist not being diplomatic when they voice their position on policy isn’t

particularly shocking, to me at least." You’re free to think that not expecting an economist to be as polished as a politician makes you live in an ivory tower. That seems like a somewhat bizarre idea to me.

So does the idea that government technical consultants hired four years ago need be “on message” in perpetuity, because being hired one time as a consultant by the executive branch means that you have an ongoing obligation to support the political aims of the party of the president you worked under.

[Dreamer Tatum]

122. So if he was more polished, the deceit and treachery would have better cloaked?

Fucking pathetic.

[Chathamization]

123. “His deceit and trickery”? I guess you don’t actually know what he did for the ACA? HHS hired him to

do an analysis of the costs and impacts of various healthcare plans.

[Dreamer Tatum]

124. I understand the truth is ugly in this case.

So I can see how one would want to run from it.

It's OK.

[Chathamization]

125. Do you have any evidence that this isn't the case, or are you just making up baseless accusations?

Here is the work that Gruber did for the ACA. Please let me know how my post wasn't the truth.

[Puglover]

131. Vroom!

Hear that Dr. Dean?

It's the bus.