Why are people so defensive of Bill Cosby but not Jerry Sandusky or Jimmy Savile?

[alp227]

Last edited Sun Nov 16, 2014, 11:20 PM - Edit history (2)

I don't get it. I thought their cases were simple moral issues of men who use their clout and hide behind their agents to present themselves as upstanding gentlemen when it turns out the opposite is more true...and very perversely so, with multiple accusations of sexual abuse against them. On and off DU people keep playing the "innocent until proven guilty" and "those are ONLY ACCUSATIONS" cards to defend Cosby, but I don't recall those defenses used for Jerry Sandusky or Jimmy Savile.

Why? Because Sandusky's and Savile's victims were children, and that fact makes Sandusky and Savile much worse than Cosby? Because Cosby was only guilty of extramarital affairs instead of rape (never mind that one of Cosby's accusers was only 17 when allegedly raped by Cosby)? (edited out - thanks mythology) Because Cosby is a wholesome, family-friendly entertainer who would NEVER rape women, ever?

People keep saying, "there's gotta be evidence against Cosby." Given that most rapes are witnessless, using that kind of standard, then everyone who makes rape accusations YEARS after the fact (including Sandusky's victims) must be liars out for money, right? If it's hard enough getting people to believe that a prominent, powerful celebrity like Cosby raped somebody, why would anyone dare fabricate accusations?

[elleng]

1. Because we think we know him, and have liked Cosby for many years.

[alp227]

3. Same applies on the other side of the Atlantic to Jimmy Savile.

After Savile's 2011 death, the British general public had an overwhelmingly positive, sad reaction. But nearly a year later, when the documentary aired with multiple women accusing Savile of sexual abuse, the sadness immediately turned to anger and only got worse, as the accusers rose up to the hundreds.

Yet after it was discovered that Bill Cosby paid a lot of money to silence his multiple accusers, the general American public still loves Cosby.

[Ed Suspicious]

2. He's like our grandfather. He's a very weakened figure at this point. He's no longer a sharp man.

It feels a bit like beating up on the elderly. Not that I buy this, but it does explain it.

[alp227]

4. But people believed the accusations about Savile after Savile DIED. nt

[GGJohn]

7. People can believe what they want, some will believe the women, some will believe Cosby.

Myself, I don't know, and neither does anyone else here, none of us are in the know, so, IMO, absent proof, the presumption of innocence should always trump unfounded allegations.

[JonLP24]

5. For a second there

I thought this was going to be black-white thing. The children angle caught me by surprise, also I never heard of Jimmy Savile until you.

You actually bring up good points. While I'm not familar with Cosby & more familiar with Sandusky, there was a mountain pile of evidence but his attorney went with the conspiracy among the victims defense.

Based on peoples' reactions it seems the worst things are in order child molesting/rape, rape, murder(depends on the reason). There is a high public & political pressure to convict people the public thinks are guilty but pales when it comes to child molestation.

Kern County. Prosecutors & police manufactured evidence and hear a lot of the same guys are still in charge.

When it comes to claims, while I doubt a victim conspiracy is a likely scenario -- a child can be coached easier than a grown woman so while false claims exist & can in all sorts of scenarios -- their isn't that quick to doubt the victim as you see in other cases.

[dsc]

6. actually it took years and years for the Sandusky stuff to be taken seriously

I have no idea if the timing is the same number of years since the Cosby stuff but it would have to be close.

[Wella]

8. Is there proof of the allegations against Cosby?

I've heard a lot of rumor--and I don't put it past a major start to think he's entitled to rape women--but I haven't seen any real proof.

[malaise]

39. Precisely

Where is the proof from even one of them

[mythology]

9. In two of those cases, there have been police investigations

But yes, attacking children (and the elderly in case of Savile who seemed to be willing to victimize anybody) is worse. Also even if just going by the number of allegations, then yeah Savile is still worse. Police in Britain have the alleged number of victims at 589 over a 60ish year time frame. That's nearly 100 alleged victims a year.

Jerry Sandusky has been found guilty of his crimes. Savile almost certainly would have been were he still alive.

There was a police investigation into Bill Cosby for one of the alleged victims. Charges weren't pursued due to lack of evidence. There are many potential reasons for that including how difficult it is to prosecute, the allure of celebrity, or actual innocence.

But I would also point out that the alleged victim you said was 17 at the time of the incident was in fact 18. It's at best inaccurate of you to claim she was 17.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/showbiz/tv/bill-cosby-rape-allegations/

Is it possible that Bill Cosby did in fact rape some or all of the women who have claimed he did? Absolutely, but I believe without far more evidence, that there isn't enough to not overwhelm the presumption of innocence.

[alp227]

10. OK, edited. nt

[Jenoch]

11. It might be because Sandusky

was tried and convicted in a court of law, the other guy is dead, and Cosby has been a 'beloved' actor and comedian for over 50 years. But that's just a wild guess.

[customerserviceguy]

13. Yep, its much easier to believe

that a coach would be abusive, instead of someone that America regards as a friendly father figure.

[Jenoch]

15. That, and the fact that there were witnesses

against Sandusky who testified against him in court, including someone who testified he saw Sandusky SODIMIZING a 12 year old in his anus in a shower room on campus at Penn State. In my opinion, that person should have paid a penalty for not following through on what he witnessed.

[NaturalHigh]

12. Sandusky was convicted of horrible crimes by a jury.

Cosby has never even been indicted. See the difference?

[mcar]

14. This

The accusations against Cosby are heinous but he has not been charged, indicted or convicted of any crime. Sandusky was.

[Orrex]

16. Did many on DU defend Sandusky prior to the conviction?

I don't recall that to be the case, but I could be wrong.

Ben Roethlesberger was accused of two rapes and tried for neither, but the prevailing sentiment outside of Pittsburgh is that he's unambiguously guilty.

[Wella]

17. No he hasn't been indicted. He has settled with a woman

whose story was remarkable similar to Barbara Bowman's story. It would be interesting to see all 13 stories back to back. The two I've read so far involve taking young, vulnerable women, drugging their drink, and raping them. If the majority of the stories have that MO, there's a serial pattern.

[alp227]

18. yes, but lots of rapists do NOT even go to trial!

https://rainn.org/news-room/97-of-every-100-rapists-receive-no-punishment

[moriah]

21. No kidding. I know mine didn't.

I offered to meet him in person in a public place wearing a wire to get him to talk, since I knew he wouldn't fall for a taped phone call, but the cops advised against it.

Instead, when the phone call didn't work at eliciting a statement, the investigation was simply dropped.

Most rapes do not leave physical evidence, especially ones that were terminated pre-ejaculation as mine was when I actually came out of my passed-out state to realize I'd been carried into another room and was being assaulted. And when they do, rapists almost always claim it was consensual. Most men can overpower most women without leaving bruises.

[yeoman6987]

19. Since the Duke tragedy,

Most want to give the accusations a fair chance to be investigated. Absolutely no point in destroying more lives like those poor Duke Lacrosse Players.

[moriah]

23. I hate false rape accusations, because they do so much damage to real victims who want justice.

Even if a man leaves bruises and vaginal tears, he can always claim that she liked it rough.

[NoGOPZone]

41. Both examples given in the OP were AFTER the Duke incident.

The Sandusky scandal emerged in 2011, the same year Savile died, and his behavior was not widely known while he was alive.

[XemaSab]

20. Why are people defensive of Michael Jackson, Roman Polanski, or Woody Allen?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Polanski and Allen absolutely don't belong in the same sentence.

Allen had a consensual sexual relationship with a 19 year old to who he had been, to some extent, in loco parentis, but who was not legally his daughter; wikipedia says he probably also had a consensual "romantic" (which I guess means sexual, although I'm by no means sure) relationship with a 17 year old.

Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old.


One is creepy, the other is rape. Morally or legally, there is absolutely no comparison.



Jackson I'm less sure about - I know there were child abuse accusations against him, but I'm not familiar enough with the details to comment.

[XemaSab]

32. Allen *allegedly* raped a 7-year-old

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/woody-allens-adapted-daughter-dylan-farrow-gives-account-of-alleged-sexual-abuse-1201081907/

Michael Jackson slept with unrelated boys in the same bed. He had an alarm system set up outside his bedroom so they wouldn't be disturbed. This is not normal.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

33. Ah, sorry - I wasn't aware of that allegation. N.T.

[Skittles]

22. you won't find me defending Cosby

I have always despised him - he's a phony and it floors me that people cannot see that

[kwassa]

24. Why would anyone dare fabricate accusations? Money.

A shakedown. Insurance companies often pay people "go-away" money, though they won't admit it, as it is cheaper than litigation costs, regardless of proof. The accuser signs a waiver and a confidentiality agreement in exchange for the smallest possible sum. Attorneys know this.

[JI7]

25. people were defensive when it came to that Coach and what he should have done

he was more similar to cosby in how he was popular and viewed by people but a big difference is the accusations are against cosby himself while with paterno it was about him ignoring what was going on.

[Kalidurga]

26. I think there are a lot of factors...

but, he ended up being a darling of the right wing. He says what the PTB likes to hear. So, it will take a lot to get MSM et al to become outraged over the rape allegations.

[sabrina 1]

27. Are you comparing Cosby to a pedophile? Are you SERIOUS?

You have answered your own question.

Thankfully people generally, especially Democrats, do not condemn people without evidence.

Sandusky was convicted WITH that little thing called evidence in a trial after charges were filed and witnesses sworn in etc etc.

What a disgrace it is to see this here on DU.

Provide your evidence that Cosby is a pedophile, and THEN ask your currently disingenuous question.

Cosby is an African American. Is that why it is okay to smear him with a label despite not a shred of evidence to justify this allegation?

[alp227]

28. Sorry. Rape is rape. The age of the victims doesn't matter. nt

[sabrina 1]

30. Rape? Provide your evidence. I thought it was pedophelia. Make up your mind, African Americans

are no strangers to false accusations in this country. I will check back to see the details, the criminal charges, the evidence, with links to court records, to credible sources. Until I see all that, this is nothing but a smear campaign. For what reason, I cannot imagine.

[oberliner]

34. Has your opinion changed on this?

Or do you still believe it is a smear campaign?

[sabrina 1]

38. Have there been charges filed in a criminal court, evidence provided? No, to answer your question

Btw, did you believe all the women who came forward and claimed Clinton had raped them, 30 years ago?

[oberliner]

40. Not as far as I know

I was just curious if there has been any change in your opinion with the other women who have come forward recently.

[jaysunb]

29. Are you saying you and others may have proof or knowledge

of these "rapes?" Or are you actively promoting some unfounded (to date) rumor or accusation ?

[SoCalDem]

35. Sadly, the mose effective predators are the ones who are beloved in public

the scout leaders, the coaches, the film stars, the teachers, the Daddies, the uncles, the preachers, etc etc etc etc..

They deliberately seek out lifestyles that bring them close to their prey..

they cultivate their image to be above reproach

they get away with it for a long time, and they "improve" on their tactics as they get bolder

they NEVER stop doing it

their public persona covers for them for a very long time, until they kill someone or they choose the "wrong" (for them) person to mess with...and even then , unless there is a lot of evidence or others come forward, they often get away with it..

[davidn3600]

36. Sandusky dug his own grave very early on with that interview with Costas

Also there was an eye witness in the Sandusky case, former assistant coach Mike McQueary, who blew the whistle of a cover-up.

To Cosby's credit, he's not talking about this which is probably the wisest move he could make. Every defense lawyer will tell you the best thing you can do when you are accused of a crime is to keep your mouth shut.

There are also no witnesses to these alleged Cosby rapes, at least not yet. At this point it is all he said she said.

[Blue_Tires]

37. I never "defended" Cosby

I had some skepticism over the lack of outside corroboration, evidence and the coincidental fact that so many accusers sat silent for decades...

But after seeing this, I have no remaining skepticism http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014950703

[Electric Monk]

42. It's hard to wrap one's mind around "Dr Cliff Huxtable" being a serial rapist

http://www.boston.com/entertainment/tv/2014/11/20/bill-cosby-not-heathcliff-huxtable-and-having-hard-time-with-that/im9sjrDkEGxLMiYQReextO/story.html

People like Cosby, Allen, and Hernandez are constantly in the public eye — which makes it easy for folks like me to build up my own vision of who they really are. Then, when the rug gets ripped out from under us, we start to experience all the aforementioned anger, frustration, disappointment and embarrassment I feel now.

I’m ashamed “The Cosby Show” was one of my all-time favorites. Not because it was wrought with violence or deplorable story lines, but because it was created by a man who allegedly committed an endless string of sexual assaults — and for me, there’s no separating the two.