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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 08:40 AM Nov 2014

California Tells Court It Can’t Release Inmates Early Because It Would Lose Cheap Prison Labor

Out of California’s years-long litigation over reducing the population of prisons deemed unconstitutionally overcrowded by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2010, another obstacle to addressing the U.S. epidemic of mass incarceration has emerged: The utility of cheap prison labor.

In recent filings, lawyers for the state have resisted court orders that they expand parole programs, reasoning not that releasing inmates early is logistically impossible or would threaten public safety, but instead that prisons won’t have enough minimum security inmates left to perform inmate jobs.

The debate culminated Friday, when a three-judge federal panel ordered California to expand an early parole program. California now has no choice but to broaden a program known as 2-for-1 credits that gives inmates who meet certain milestones the opportunity to have their sentences reduced. But California’s objections raise troubling questions about whether prison labor creates perverse incentives to keep inmates in prison even when they don’t need to be there.

The debate centers around an expansive state program to have inmates fight wildfires. California is one of several states that employs prison labor to fight wildfires. And it has the largest such program, as the state’s wildfire problem rapidly expands arguably because of climate change. By employing prison inmates who are paid less than $2 per day, the state saves some $1 billion, according to a recent BuzzFeed feature of the practice. California relies upon that labor source, and only certain classes of nonviolent inmates charged with lower level offenses are eligible for the selective program. They must then meet physical and other criteria.

more

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/17/3592964/how-californias-program-to-have-inmates-fight-wildfires-could-be-keeping-people-behind-bars/

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California Tells Court It Can’t Release Inmates Early Because It Would Lose Cheap Prison Labor (Original Post) n2doc Nov 2014 OP
Now we see the violence inherent in the system Man from Pickens Nov 2014 #1
Sounds like the Nazification of our "Legal System" to me. Hubert Flottz Nov 2014 #20
Post removed Post removed Nov 2014 #2
I'd like to point out Feral Child Nov 2014 #3
I was thiinking the same thing MindPilot Nov 2014 #4
Yes Feral Child Nov 2014 #14
In a prison, I really wonder how much volunteerism is truly voluntary. Being ex-miltary.... marble falls Nov 2014 #10
Exactly. Feral Child Nov 2014 #13
Worst logic ever. Scuba Nov 2014 #5
Prisoner labor should be illegal Hari Seldon Nov 2014 #6
Corp 'leased' prisoners make much of the "made in America" products/clothing like jeans. Sunlei Nov 2014 #8
In Colorado if you are incarcerated on a non-violent offense, you pay the state room and board librechik Nov 2014 #12
Despicable practice. If the state wants someone incarcerated, the state should pay for it TheKentuckian Nov 2014 #21
Indeed. KamaAina Nov 2014 #15
"are paid less than $2 per day" slavery is still legal in America!! Sunlei Nov 2014 #7
Ding ding we have a winner malaise Nov 2014 #9
Yep. woo me with science Nov 2014 #11
That one is pretty global malaise Nov 2014 #17
Excellent point. woo me with science Nov 2014 #23
Cross-posting to California forum KamaAina Nov 2014 #16
How is this not slavery? Or at least indentured servitude? Initech Nov 2014 #18
Prison labor is SLAVERY! This shit needs to stop. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #19
I see numerous prison workers from CCA (Corrections Corporation of America), nilesobek Nov 2014 #22
Since the bidness of America is bidness, it would seem un-American to dry up sources of really indepat Nov 2014 #24
Slavery - example of Oakland feeder daredtowork Nov 2014 #25
 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
1. Now we see the violence inherent in the system
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 08:53 AM
Nov 2014

hmmm caging human beings then forcing them to do labor for no compensation... why does that sound familiar

Hubert Flottz

(37,726 posts)
20. Sounds like the Nazification of our "Legal System" to me.
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 02:01 PM
Nov 2014

Right down to the storm troopers in every American city.

I'll bet the prison operators even have it figured to the calorie, how much to feed the "Workers."

Response to n2doc (Original post)

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
3. I'd like to point out
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 09:13 AM
Nov 2014

that the use of prisoners in question is most inappropriate because they are being used in an extremely dangerous activity. Fighting wildfires is extremely dangerous and requires extensive training and a high degree of physical fitness.
It's very easy to get cut-off by a fast-moving fire, trained wildfire-fighters are alert to the conditions that cause a risk of being engulfed. I sincerely doubt that prison officials select only from "volunteers", I'm sure they will fill quotas in any way that is convenient for themselves, not the safety and welfare of prisoners.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
4. I was thiinking the same thing
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 09:30 AM
Nov 2014

Somebody has to watch the prisoners, and the real firefighters have the additional workload of keeping a group of prisoners and guards safe and productive. (And prison guard is not a job that attracts the best and brightest either)

I have no problem with using prison labor to clear defensible space or cut breaks well ahead of the fire, but actually on the fireline? That is just a dumb idea.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
14. Yes
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:25 PM
Nov 2014

Besides a back-handed justification for slave-labor, there's a moral disconnect in forcing convicts into certain danger with the real possibility of an agonizing and terrifying death.

Add to that the practice of long sentences for victim-less, "moral-values" crimes.

It seems that underneath all the grandiose jingoism and exceptionalism, our country is despotic and inhumane.

"Land of the Free" my tired, sore ass.

marble falls

(56,996 posts)
10. In a prison, I really wonder how much volunteerism is truly voluntary. Being ex-miltary....
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 11:12 AM
Nov 2014

I know a lot of the volunteers on a military base aren't voluntarily volunteering.

 

Hari Seldon

(154 posts)
6. Prisoner labor should be illegal
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 09:43 AM
Nov 2014

If the State decides it is in the best interest to incarcerate, then the state should pay the cost of incarceration.

The incentive to create and maintain a slave-underclass must be considered too tempting to allow under any circumstances no matter how well regulated.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
8. Corp 'leased' prisoners make much of the "made in America" products/clothing like jeans.
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 10:06 AM
Nov 2014

The states/federal gov taxpayers pay the 'for profit' prisons 25k-40k a yr to 'house' the slaves in over crowded conditions. Many states have signed 30 year contracts with the 'for profits'

Prison stock went up from ~$8 to $39 in a decade. USA has more citizens in prisons than the entire world combined.

Between the civil war end and WW2 slavery continued with thousands of black Americans in prisons, leased to the Corp mines & dangerous jobs & many thousands worked to death.

librechik

(30,673 posts)
12. In Colorado if you are incarcerated on a non-violent offense, you pay the state room and board
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:02 PM
Nov 2014

every day of your stay. Jail isn't free. There's always a fine too, if you can't afford the room and board, they add it to your fine.

TheKentuckian

(25,018 posts)
21. Despicable practice. If the state wants someone incarcerated, the state should pay for it
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 02:07 PM
Nov 2014

Prison labor should be likewise banned, slave labor steals demand from the actual workforce and created perverted incentives to maintain and expand the ultra cheap labor base.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
7. "are paid less than $2 per day" slavery is still legal in America!!
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 09:55 AM
Nov 2014

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
22. I see numerous prison workers from CCA (Corrections Corporation of America),
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 02:14 PM
Nov 2014

at the local cemetery where I install headstones for a private contractor. I asked them what they got paid, like 25 cents an hour and I asked them why they do it. They told me that the conditions in the prison are so crowded and horrific that any chance to work outside they would take. And, there is always the chance they can meet someone from the outside who might leave a pack of cigarettes and some matches just laying there on another headstone.

CCA has a horrible rep here in Idaho. Prisoners got their faces smashed in. There was gladiatorial combat in these rent-a-prisons.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
24. Since the bidness of America is bidness, it would seem un-American to dry up sources of really
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 05:11 PM
Nov 2014

cheap labor, like prison labor, so to let 'em rot in prison is so American, right-wing-styled.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
25. Slavery - example of Oakland feeder
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 07:09 PM
Nov 2014

In Oakland individual adults without doctor-validated disabilities can only get General Assisrance Welfare for 3 months out of the year. This is $336/month, and it's a loan not free Welfare Queen money. If you get thag full amount, it goes directly to a landlord/vendor for rent. You get NO DIRECT CASH FOR BASIC NECESSITIES AND IF YOU ATTEMPT TO EARN ANYTHINGVIT COMES OUT OF THE RENT!!!!!

This is in a rapidly gentrifying area where $2500/m for a one bedroom apartment is considered affordable housing if you can even find that.

Soooo. There is an unwritten "understanding" here that people at the welfare level in Oakland will have to survive "some other way" if they can't get enough work to make rent and otherwise get along. Many will have to resort to prostitution and criminal activity. They are being SQUEEZED into a survival situation.

When people go to jail for doing what the STATE OF CALIFORNIA basically herded them into doing, the STATE OF CALIFORNIA captures a pool of slave labor.

Is this sounding like a Philip K. Dick novel yet? I could add a bit about people using social media to narc on themselves, and there we'd have it.

I'm sure many people's jaws dropped with horror when they found out this argument could still be made in a civilized society. The context of Ferguson and Oakland's prison-release population make the race connection all the more palpable.

But few people are aware of the inhumane and chaos-creating way welfare is administered in Oakland. When you consider how that shunts people back toward criminal activity - because they have no other survival choice - this captive slave labor pool is an even more astounding Atrocity of the State.

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