T - 9 Days until Thanksgiving dinner with teabagger extremists...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

I am dreading it. And it's their type that brings up politics by completely ignoring present company who may not agree with them and kicking off the "conversation" with absolute garbage devoid of actual fact and prepared to disown anyone who dares to attempt to correct them.

I had to attend a social event with my fiance's dad and his wife on Saturday night and got a preview of what my first Thanksgiving with them will be like. I warned my fiance that I would be prepared for their BS on Turkey Day and she is begging me to stow it.

I don't know what to do. I told her that it wasn't me who brought up politics, it was them talking shit about Muslims and how they hate President Obama. She agreed but asked me to be cool about it on T-Day.

I just do not know what to do! And, what's worse, is these people live in louie gohmert's district and are every bit as bad at social issues, Obama-hating, gun-loving, fact-eshewing, and bat shit insane as he is!

I do not know what to do.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I'm sorry

That's all I can say - I'll be surrounded by leftists, liberals, and populists. And we are all bringing a dish.

[still_one]

2. Just tell them you don't want to talk politics. What I do in situations like that is bring up

another topic, whether is is a football game, the weather(hmmm, maybe global warming, only kidding), or something that doesn't make the situation tense. You can also talk to people asking them the line of work they are in etc.

Don't engage. If they try to force the issue, throw it right back at them, I don't want to talk politics, this is a Thanks giving celebration. They will look like asses, not you if they continue

[snooper2]

3. Go more hardcore if you want to have some real fun---

Tell them how we need to go back 150 years, separate fountains-

Kill all illegals as soon as they are spotted-

lynchings should be done during super bowl halftime-

Teh Gay should be sent to camps-

[ChisolmTrailDem]

11. I thought about this, lol. Go exteme to the other side of their exremism. My fiance, though... nt

[sharp_stick]

4. If they live in Gomers district

I'd just stow it, drink and keep my mouth shut.

They are beyond hope and it's not worth pissing off your fiance to get in some digs at the stupidest people in the country.

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. +1 ...

At the end of the day, his/her relationship with his/her fiancé is what is real ... the political discussions are not.

[0rganism]

151. +1, this is the way to handle it

nothing to gain by correcting them, and a whole lot to lose

let it go and get started scheduling your next thanksgiving dinner somewhere else

[louis-t]

5. My first instinct would be to point and laugh every time they make a stupid comment.

Shake my head, clap my hands. The biggest problem is that there are so many of them. I have pushed back against the teabaggers in my office one on one, who quickly back down when confronted with an actual fact or when asked to explain the crazy statement they just made. In groups, they will start shouting bs at you and it is pretty hard to fight that.

[AleksS]

6. A couple different things from a similar situation

Hi,

I come from a similar situation. My wife's family is a bunch of tebagger asswipes that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. (One guy can't even say President Obama's name without calling him "Osama -Obama," and another has his teabagger flag flying in front of his house every time we come over. Why does teabagging turn people into jerks?) However, if we do Thanksgiving at their house I bite my tongue. and just let it slide by. Outside of getting myself a hosting spot on Fox News, nothing I can do will cause any of them to change their thoughts, and engaging will just raise my blood pressure too.

If it's extra odious, I just make sure we leave early.

So, I guess that's my advice. Nothing good comes of engaging them, and at the same time it sounds like it wouldn't be appreciated by your fiancee so there's a definite downside.

Assholes gotta be assholes (or, more accurately: conservatives gotta be assholes) getting into it with one isn't going to make you smell any better.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

15. "Nothing good comes of engaging them..." While I agree, it does not seem fair that they are able to

engage in their bullshit and I'm expected to bite my tongue while they spew garbage.

I don't fault my fiance for not wanting a scene. And we will be in their home. It's going to be very hard to keep my cool around that nonsense.

I will attempt to deflect to another topic, I suppose.

[bettyellen]

24. CTD, the advice blogger Captain Awkward will have some great scripts for you to use....

this kind of thing - using your word to stick up for yourself, while keeping things cool- is her specialty.
I think you will find her ideas very helpful. Also, she has a great comments section.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

35. Open in another tab, bettyellen =) Will have a look, thank you! nt

[bettyellen]

45. I love that friggen blog.....

if you have time and the inclination, take time to read "we have a case of the creepy dude". the comments section is an eye opener (and often sad at how frequently women are pressured to keep the peace- after being abused- by their "friends&quot .
Because she moderates heavily, and does not allow jackass MRA dudes to take over in comments. Rather she lets a few of their comments through to eviscerate them to everyone's delight.
Hope you enjoy!

[avebury]

40. For the sake of your fiance, you will

probably have to bite your tongue and tune them out, particularly since you will be on their turf. You will be stuck with these people for a long time.

Is there any chance you can relate to a far enough distance that would prohibit frequent trips to the "other side?"

Now when the time comes that they come to visit at your home then you can lay the ground rules as to what is unacceptable in your home. When the time comes that you have children, you probably will want to minimize contact with the in-laws and your children so that your children are not contaminated with their filth.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

47. Actually, I don't want to use the word "fortunate" here but my fiance and I are middle-aged, myself

50 and her 45, and her dad and his wife are both in their 70s and not in good health so how long we'll have to do this is probably not as long as it would be if we were younger and having children. But if were young and having children, you can bet we would have to have a conversation about how to handle the situation. And right now, luckily, we're 150 miles away from where they live so trips are infrequent.

My fiance and her dad were estranged for 15 years because of his bullshit and it was him that cut communications. She found out a year ago that he had prostate cancer and decided to be the bigger person and bite the bullet and go see him in the hospital. She says he's mellowed out a bit since then but she is still only tolerating him and going through the motions and trying to have some semblance of a relationship with him.

This Thanksgiving thing wouldn't even be happening if she hadn't considered the probable consequences of not accepting the T-Day invitation. She really doesn't want to go either but knows if we don't, it will only mean misery because that's just the way he (and his wife) are.

[avebury]

112. "She really doesn't want to go either but knows if we don't, it will only mean misery because that's

just the way he (and his wife) are."

There is only misery if you decide to allow it. Family is not necessary that which you are born but can also be the family that you put together.

[lunasun]

159. Sounds totally toxic already - I understand your concern & good luck

[ChisolmTrailDem]

160. Or maybe they'll heed the boundaries and we can all have a nice go of it. That's what

I hope for, ultimately.

My description above sounds a little harsh now that I read it again hours later. They are on the one hand teabagger extremists, but on the other they can be tolerable people. I've seen both sides but for some reason teabaggers feel compelled to make comments even when no one wants to hear it. Hopefully we'll tap into the better side of them and have a nice day. That's what I hope for.

[lunasun]

165. I call it Teabagger Tourette's syndrome. May it be in remission on Turkey day

[monmouth4]

63. Beg off with the flu/ebola, whatever. Have the fiancee bring you a plate later, so you can keep up

your strength. Bet it would work, start actin ill around Tuesday....

[marions ghost]

77. Get good at the one-liner

ie. the squelch. That's what I do. You know their topics--just cut em off at the pass. You don't engage with facts. You don't argue ANY of their "points." You never take the bait.

You just come back with a polite flat statement of your own --can be on some political or social subject, no matter how tangential, maybe something so off the wall their jaw drops and they are left speechless. They will realize they can't mess with you and they'll quit trying. This method is called Behavior Modification . Be annoying consistent and unflappable using it. You'll get respect. If you can smile cheerfully, all the better.

This might help:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1103
Lots of good topics ^^^^

So if they give you some trash about Obama or whatever--you come back with something compelling but unrelated. Generic Answers:

Did you hear about the new sinkholes in Florida?

What do you think about Kim Kardashian's naked photos?

Did you hear about the "New KKK"? (weird news):

The requirements for joining the new KKK group, called the Rocky Mountain Knights, are to be aged 18 and live in the Pacific Northwest. Some black people have already expressed an interest in joining, after John Abarr organised a summit with civil rights groups. Abarr, who has claimed that he is a former white supremacist, told the Great Falls Tribune, "The KKK is for a strong America. White supremacy is the old Klan. This is the new Klan." Abarr has organised a peace summit with religious groups and the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People (NAACP) next summer.

[AleksS]

133. Yeah, but wouldn't life suck if it really were fair

Yeah, but wouldn't life suck if it really were fair and we really deserved all the shitty things that happen to us?
(Paraphrased from Marcus on Babylon 5)

I'll take an ounce of unfair in exchange for a pound of "living a better life" any day of the week.

My life got immeasurably better when I stopped caring about what was fair, and started caring about what was better. Remember, they'll still be assholes when they wake up in the morning. I'm sure Sun Tzu wrote something about not engaging in battles which won't affect the outcome of the war. Use that energy and drive somewhere it'll make a difference. You'll feel better, and live longer in the end!

No matter what though, from a shared misery, I wish you all the best on Thanksgiving. And don't forget one other bit that has worked well: have an exit strategy!

[1StrongBlackMan]

136. As I posted earlier ...

remember, your relationship with your fiancé is real; the discussions with these folks is not, unless you make them so.

I advice for the evening, stick close to your fiancé and whenever they attempt to draw you in to a conversation, deflect by saying something very complimentary them about your fiancé and on every 3rd time whisper something provocative to your fiancé.

It'll help you get through the evening by focusing on what is real.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. Heres some ammunition

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

[ChisolmTrailDem]

19. These people don't want to see anything that isn't fox nooz. Indeed, I have a quote:

"We watch Fox News only. They don't hold back."

I responded by stating that all TV news is propoganda and explained that we used to laugh at and make fun of the Soviets for swallowing Pravda's propaganda and now it's happening here and most Americans lap it up like a kitten does warm milk.

That caused an awkward silence - for everyone at the table but me, lol. I quite enjoyed putting that out there.

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. it IS Fox News...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Ohio: Christie vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 46, Christie 39 Clinton +7
Ohio: Paul vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 49, Paul 40 Clinton +9
Ohio: Bush vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 48, Bush 38 Clinton +10
Ohio: Perry vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 49, Perry 39 Clinton +10
Ohio: Kasich vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 47, Kasich 43 Clinton +4

[ChisolmTrailDem]

22. I actually saw that and had a brain fart when I posted. They won't hear it, though, even

if I show them it's fux. But, it's an excellent thing to have in my pocket if I need it.

I told my fiance I was coming to T-Dinner prepared. And she asked me not to engage them.

She and I have been together 1 1/2 years and have never had so much as an arguement. I would hate to upset her but is that the right thing to do? I'm the type that doesn't tolerate BS and am quick to squash it where I am able to.

What a predicament to be in...

I hope I come down with something before then.

[marions ghost]

81. You've got what it takes

--just give them the flat sound bites that they don't dare touch with a 10 ft pole.

Awkward silence--yes! No room for come-backs, nastiness.

Just leave em gaping. Change the subject then & don't beat a dead horse. When you get the behavior you want, shut up.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

103. I followed that up by saying that I have personally caught every news network outright lying

about mulitple issues and denying known facts and not challenging BS when it strips itself naked right in front of them. Therefore, I continued, I don't believe anything any of them have to say and it will be a long time before any of them earn my trust again, if that is even possible.

Stone silence for five seconds and then "This crummy dinner wasn't worth the $35 per person ticket...mumble, mumble...", lol.

[marions ghost]

149. Perfect--you made your point in the way that has no comeback

this is the best approach if they are seriously out to make things uncomfortable for you. I don't believe in just putting up with passive-aggressive needling, baiting. It's degrading to you, and IMO you actually lose their respect.

Sounds like you do have an arsenal of strategies which can be applied effectively. Use em but be careful not to escalate things. Never get into arguing specifics, or debating--always a losing game with these types--they want to make you over-react. You're only interested in changing their behavior towards you, not their politics. If you just roll over and play dead, they'll never understand where the boundary is and they'll continue. You can't convert the pig-headed, but you can train them to respect your boundaries. In the words of the old samurai--you don't give them a place for the arrow to enter.

Check back and tell us how it went. And thanx for your post --I have been there & struggled with it. I'm sure you are not alone in fearing the obligatory holiday togetherness with right wingers. Fortunately I'm not faced with it much any more but I sympathize.

(ps--How good are you on Revolutionary War History? You could always edumacate a bit there, in a polite friendly folksy way).

[hedgehog]

8. I've been wondering what Thanksgiving will be like

for a lot of people if Obama issues an Executive Order on Immigration between now and then --


at least it won't be boring!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

20. I was told by these people Saturday night that my fiance and I should not consider a European

honeymoon because Muslims were killing Americans in Paris and London.

This is what I am going to have to deal with on T-Day.

[avebury]

42. Oh my I don't know what to say to that.

You might want to give them a table of murder statistics (US versus European countries) to show them how dumb they are.

[mnhtnbb]

55. We were in London and Paris last May and survived.

Didn't run in to shootings of anyone anywhere. Except, with photo ops with cameras!

Meanwhile, you could look up shooting deaths in the U.S. for that time period. It was
undoubtedly safer in Europe.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

59. I told them that "I am not scared of Muslims or terrorists attacking us and I'm not going to let

irrational fear stop me from seeing Europe."

That did shut them up for a few minutes and allowed my fiancee to change the subject.

[marions ghost]

84. When it's a really ridiculous statement like that

I think I'd just laugh, authentically and loud. No rebuttal necessary.

[jeepers]

9. All you need is love

Make googely eyes at your fiancé, hold her hand, whisper sweet things in her ear, compliment the hostess to excess. You can't help or change these people. Make her happy and she'll make you happy. Enjoy the dinner.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

23. Very good advice, jeepers. Thank you for this arrow for my quiverful of options. It is most likely

the tack I will take in order to keep the peace my fiance and I have had for the entire 1 1/2 we've been together.

[JoePhilly]

10. Football. Watch it. Ignore them. Drink.

If that fails ... food allergy, put some pepper in your eyes ... then tell them you left your meds back home.

Or ... make a bet with them ... and if they lose ... no more politics talk for the rest of the day.

Ask them to name, off the top of their head, a single positive piece of legislation that a GOP majority Congress passed Under Bush or Clinton. They won't be able to name a single one. There are none.

And you can name two awful pieces of legislation they passed. Iraq war authorization. Graham-Leech Bliley of 1999, the single piece of legislation that caused the crash in 2008.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

25. I will try to honor my fiance's wishes to keep the peace... She has readily

admitted that it was them who engaged but asked me to resist letting them have it. I know she is right but it's so freaking hard to sit there and listen to it.

And it'll get worse. They love to show off their gunz. I get extremely nervous when a loaded gun is being shown off and I make it obvious. But it doesn't help, they continue admiring them until they tire of it.

Sigh.

[avebury]

44. What is your fiance's opinion on the topic

of bringing any future children into the homes of gun crazies who don't adequately secure loaded guns. This should be of extreme concern to both of you because they can be a real safety issue to not only yourselves but any children you have.

For me it would be a no brainer. I would never bring children into a house with loaded, unsecured guns owned by gun crazies.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

50. We're middle-aged and have both raised our own children to adulthood. Her daughters are close by

and neither one of them has any interest in getting to know the grandfather that basically abandoned them early in their life.

If we were young and having our own children, there would definitely have to be a conversation about how to handle their involvement with our children. I am really glad we don't have to go there, lol.

[JoePhilly]

60. Here's something I do with part of my wife's family ...

... I agree with them, but take their crazy position just a little farther into crazyland to see if they try to get me to comeback to their "sensible" position.

Like on the guns thing ... say you kind of agree with them ... and that people should be allowed to have automatic weapons, and any weapon the government has, otherwise, how can you truly protect yourself from a tyrannical government like Obama's. He's got drones, YOU need them too. Right? Right? See if they go with you.

Last year one of my brother-in-laws brought up Hobby Lobby and religious freedom nonsense. I said I agreed, then I said Hobby Lobby, as a true Christian business, should also demand that unmarried male employees can't get Viagra through their insurance because sex outside marriage is a sin. And there is no other reason to get Viagra. My brother-in-law's face drained to pure white. He's very religious. And he was speechless. Killed that discussion quick. He left the room. And my wife, mother-in-law, and sisters-in-law, including his wife, broke up laughing.

[Jenoch]

142. (FYI, American citizens are allowed to own

fully automatic weapons if they pass a stringent background check and are not legaly disqualified from owning firearms. Of course the cheapest full-auto gun costs thousands and thoisands of dollars, so not many are in private hands.)

[JoePhilly]

143. Irrelevant to my point.

[hedgehog]

12. Ask the cook how much she had to pay for the turkey -

you should get a good 5 minute break as she explains how she only paid 19 cents a pound by shopping around.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

26. Haha, good one! I will do this =) Thanks, hedgehog! nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

13. Respect your role as guest --

As hard as that may be. As mentioned by others, if the political talk starts, don't engage -- either try a change of conversation or ignore them. This happened recently for me at a class reunion. Someone who was not a friend on FB and therefore unaware of my passionate liberal leanings started trash talking Obama -- a few friends who WERE aware immediately turned to me and egged me on -- I simply said (with a genuine smile on my face) I never discuss politics at gatherings like this, but that they were free to do so. That stopped the conversation dead.

If things get bad, just imagine them all getting kissed or hugged by Obama and their heads exploding

[ChisolmTrailDem]

29. This is the advice I will try mightily to follow, though allowing the BS is not in my usual

character. I will mind my surroundings and the wishes of my fiance, but it will be so hard to keep quiet when their garbage is allowed to spew unheeded.

[NightWatcher]

14. Sit back and admire the sea of fools that you are both intellectually and morally superior to

or be sure to show up drunk or stoned.

I plan on being stoned out of my gourd.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

30. I have to drive 150 miles so I won't be drunk. Stoned goes without saying, lol! nt

[marions ghost]

88. ha ha

[LanternWaste]

16. This phrase helps me more than it should when surrounded by right-wing dullards...

This phrase helps me more than it should when surrounded by right-wing dullards... "Bless your little heart. That's so adorable."

Over and over and over again. My only response to any political comment or question. Sooner or later, even the most half-witted among them get it.

[sharp_stick]

17. Don't do this but

if you want to see one of them stroke out mention how much happier they'll be with President Clinton in 2017.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

74. Tempting though, lol. nt

[JoePhilly]

144. And she puts Obama on the SC!!

[B2G]

18. We always have a mixed crowd

No one ever talks politics. It's all about the turkey, the pie and football.

Guess I'm lucky...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

31. I never bring up politics and religion in mixed company. However, these people absolutely have no

valve or filter. They force it on you. This is what I must resist.

[librechik]

27. find something else to do. Volunteer at a soup kitchen.

you don't have to go there.

[brooklynite]

28. You could always offer to sya grace and then read something "appropriate" from the Bible...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

32. This is an exellent idea! Any suggestions of "appropriate" passages? nt

[greatlaurel]

163. Jeremiah 23 is filled with things that should be helpful. Get creative!

That best part is here:

36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/jeremiah/23.html

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+23&version=KJV

[Manifestor_of_Light]

168. How about the stuff in Ezekiel about the emissions like horses???

That might work.

[Lars39]

33. I'm usually sadly outnumbered so I generally keep quiet

until they say something so outrageously offensive I cannot keep my mouth shut and still retain my humanity.
This TDay ought to be a doozy....MIL has revealed herself on the sly as a 'bagger. I just don't know what to say to people that begrudge poor people food.

[Laffy Kat]

34. Can you just drink to extreme

and have your fiance be the DD on the trip back home? I feel your pain.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

37. Yes! My fiance has no issue with not drinking so that I can. However, I know for a fact that when

we finally leave their house, the first thing she will say is: "I need a drink!". So, we have planned on staying nearby in a hotel and having our own T-day celebration - at the bar, lol!

[Laffy Kat]

39. You've got this, CTD!

Give us a report on Friday, K?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

41. Haha! Will do, Laffy Kat =D nt

[mercuryblues]

94. bring plenty

of wine/beer and be the bartender, not the drinker. Make sure they always have a full glass. If they are drinking a mixed drink, make theirs strong and yours weak. Don't worry, some may purposely try to goad you into creating a scene. Just remember not everyone likes to get the bartender mad at them.

Don't let them know you are staying in a hotel. Use the excuse it is a long drive and you want to get home before it is too late so you can leave early. When they say something so stupid, lean over and give your fiancée a kiss and tell her you love her.

Went you get to the hotel, have some drinks and laugh about it.

[olddots]

36. try to talk to them about things they know

Like nothing........I would plug my ears and not speak,just look at how foolish they are realize civilization is an uphill battle .

[The2ndWheel]

38. Just know that you're not going to change their minds

No matter what rabbit you think you have in your hat. You won't be the winner.

Why should you have to be quiet, while they say what they want? I don't know, but life ain't fair. It's a couple hours. Nothing they say will make you change your mind either. It's real easy to shrug.

[Phentex]

114. That's how I feel about some members of my husband's family...

I have endured prayers before meals that sound like political speeches. I want to scream but I keep my head down and look at the dog instead.

During dinner, THEY have almost learned they won't engage us. We will smile and nod and mumble. I have on rare occasion stated my opposition to a certain expressed view and felt the hushed silence after. They really aren't the type of people who want to offend (they just assume most people agree with them!) so they will not try and drive home a point they know won't change my mind either. That's the only way we get through.

[HERVEPA]

43. Well, I disagree with pretty much everyone posting here.

By the way, she's the fiancee, you're the the fiance.

Issue is with you and your fiancee. If she thinks it's ok for her parents to subject you to this crap without your speaking up, and she doesn't tell her parents to can it, then there is worse crap coming up in your future marriage than this.
If she's marrying you, she needs to be on your side, not your parents'.

[bettyellen]

46. I think she needs to join him in asking to change the subject, and help him "opt out" of such

conversations, yes.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

54. Thanks for the correction, I had no idea, lol. I haven't been a fiance since 1990. As for

my fiancee, she is on my side and I have never had a better relationship with anyone in my life than I do with my fiancee. I don't see any worse crap coming for my marriage to her just because she has asked me to keep the peace in order to avoid an unconfortable scene.

It's not like she's demanding I keep quiet. She's asking as a favor.

[Le Taz Hot]

135. I agree with you.

If I were the one with the bat-shit crazy parents, there is no way I would subject my fiancé to that. If it were my fiancé with the bat-shit crazy parents and he/she asked me to shut up? I'd have one foot out the door. You're absolutely right. As a couple you are a team and you need to have each others' backs. That doesn't mean you support your significant other whether they're right or wrong. It means your disagreements are conducted in private.

And here's another thing. It is the HOST'S responsibility to ensure there is no offensive talk at the event. Everyone in my family knows I am a political animal but, as a guest, or even as a host, I NEVER bring up politics because it falls way outside the boundaries of etiquette. The HOST is the one that needs to take control of the situation.

[SomethingFishy]

48. Laugh...

And when they say "What" Say.. " Oh Nothin"...

It's all you can do anymore. And it pisses em' off to no end. You get to take the high road and it tells them that what they are saying isn't worth even responding to.

[immoderate]

49. Plan to laugh a lot. Use Poe's Law to advantage.

Since conservative babble is indistinguishable from satire of conservative babble, just enjoy the joke.

--imm

[cherokeeprogressive]

51. Football, FRIENDS and FAMILY, Fun, and Deep Fried Turkey! Yum. I can't wait!

[upaloopa]

52. Turn a football game on the TV and act like you are really

interested in watching it. Use it to ignore what they are saying.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. Better Yet, Find A Room With A TV. . .

. . .go watch the game alone anytime politics is brought up.

[upaloopa]

93. I have done that

Seems people just try to get your goat. They know what pushes your buttons and they purposely do it. I just get up from the table and turn on the TV or go to another room even outside.

[ProfessorGAC]

101. I've Done It Too

Now, at my house it's different. I had to tell my FiL (now deceased) just once. "We don't talk like that here. You probably remember telling your daughter 'My house my rules right?'. Well, now you're in my house. Happens again, you get sent home."

Never happened again.

[LeftyMom]

53. Your fiancee knows you and them well. Follow her lead

Maybe ask her to suggest safe topics. Wink at each other when it gets nuts. Arrange a signal for when you need a break.

Above all else remember that her happy relationship with her family is more important than your need to win an argument.

[mnhtnbb]

56. You could always develop a case of flu--or maybe, Ebola?

Or, as someone else suggested, be the biggest fan of whichever f ball team is playing
on T-day and go in another room and turn on the tube.

[KansDem]

57. When they start in, remind them the turkey is on the table...

...and not to be found anywhere else in the house that day.

[joeglow3]

58. Your soon to be wife is asking you to ignore it and you are considering telling her to fuck off?

If you cannot honestly ignore people who will never change and instead ignore your soon-to-be wife's wishes, you may want to consider if this is the one.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

61. I would never mess up the peace we've enjoyed in our relationship in order to tell her to

"fuck off".

So, I don't know where that came from.

I know she is the one.

[joeglow3]

66. Then you bite your tongue.....period

No debate or discussion. This is one of those times you put your wife's wishes ahead of your personal desire to tell her family off or correct them.

It sucks, but when you feel the urge, look at her and realize why you are doing it.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

67. Excellent advice, which I will try mightily to follow amid the spewage coming from the teabaggers.nt

[riqster]

70. You could try the "Make a new tradition" route.

It's how we dealt with asshole family types. "We decided to have thanksgiving as a couple." Sounds romantic and avoids the family situation entirely.

Plus it cuts the cord and allows her to liberate herself.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

72. That's a good idea if we could pull it off. I am off the hook for next year since we'll be able to

decline their T-day invitation on the grounds that we'll be having it with my family.

My family isn't much more reasonable, but they never bring politics or religion into such an occasion. So, it's always about family and catching up and watching football and pigging out!

[bettyellen]

75. it's a good idea in that it will help you set boundaries....

that will be even more helpful if you two are thinking about children. from what I have heard, RW asshole grand parents are notorious at trying to indoctrinate their g-kids, especially if they failed with their own kids. Something for you to look forward to!

[riqster]

78. It helps that my wife and I are middle-aged. Easier to set boundaries.

Both our families are well equipped with sphincterish relatives, so we redid a lit of traditions when we got together. Slightly stressful at first, but well worth it in the long run.

[riqster]

62. Focus on priorities and practicalities.

She is the priority, not those swutting turlingdromes.

As to practicalities: "Never try to teach a pig to sing: it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Will anything you do say make a single dent in their armor plated ignorance? No. So save your efforts for people who you CAN reach.

[MillennialDem]

64. Sing or play the internationale

[Dollface]

65. If you are asked what you think say, "I read something different."

If they ask where you got that information say something like, "I think from a McClatchy news site or maybe it was National Review." (Never say MSNBC or NYT, it invalidates anything you say. Even if its a lie I think it falls in the white lie category, trying to keep heads from expolding.)

Avoid partisan references such as, "Louie Gomert is dumber than a rock after a labotomy" or, "Ted Cruz is a nazi-loving, Constitution hating, serial liar with a God compex." Instead say, "I've heard that some (a useful FOX term) don't think he is very bright."

Stay cool for as long as you can by observing rather than engaging. Perhaps take notes. Not everyone gets to see them in their natural habitat, without their misspelled signs and flag paraphernalia.

Good luck

[Politicalboi]

68. Just laugh at them

Laugh at them for wanting legal weed, but they put the GOP in charge. Laugh at them when they want healthcare, and they put the GOP in charge. Laugh at them for wanting a better wage, but they put the GOP in charge. Just laugh at them and tell them Reagan/Bush also did executive orders for immigrants. Just laugh at them and tell them we all hope Obama will sign all kinds of executive orders and watch their party start to eat each other alive. If it all gets too crazy, say you're not feeling well and leave.

[leftynyc]

69. Stay home

I know it will create problems with the fiance but better that than ruining your holiday. I may not be the best person to offer an opinion, I don't have these kinds of problems with family - we're all liberals (and yet we still find plenty to argue about but it NEVER gets ugly). I just don't see why you should be expected to keep your mouth shut.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

76. Yea, staying home not an option, sadly. I wish I lived in a liberal area, leftynyc. We're talking

louie gohmert's constituents here... sigh.

[leftynyc]

113. I'm truly not trying to cause any

problems here but why are you expected to keep your mouth shut? Why are you expected (by someone who loves you) to be put in a situation like that - where you they know how you feel, don't give a shit and you're expected to sit and take it? I wish you lived in NYC too

[BlindTiresias]

71. Just dunk them

Call them out, dunk those scrubs, and burn da earth.

Alternative route: Do what someone said upthread and for every right wing position go more extreme. I suggest you do a crashcourse reading of Hans Hermann Hoppe's "Democracy: The God That Failed" and see how to bring out maximum right wing extremism.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

73. Other advice in this thread that is very tempting is to go even further extremes than they do, so...

...I should do something like suggest that all Muslim women who become pregnant should be forced to have abortions and see how they react. I bet their racism overcomes their desire to abolish abortion.

That probably doesn't fall in line with my fiancee's request that I resist responding in order to keep the peace though, lol.

[BlindTiresias]

80. Lol

That is a good one

Good ole Hans Herman Hoppe also suggests that anyone who does not understand or refuses to understand the value of division of labor should be considered a free good to be captured and enjoyed. Read: If you don't accept hugely disproportionate wealth you should be considered a slave or an animal. Has has lots of similar gems, plenty enough to really test the family's apparent allegiance to the right.

There are ways to do it subtly and keep the peace though. As long as you don't actively argue and just politely promote even more extreme right wing positions as your own, preferrably by citing right wing thinkers, you should be golden. A short list off the top of my head:

Hans Herman Hoppe: Anyone who doesn't agree with extreme wealth inequality should be an animal/enslaved, anyone who disagrees with the natural superiority of the rich should be imprisoned/exterminated, communities have the right to exclude anyone for any reason with legal force behind their actions, gays are a degenerate influence on society and have no place in a proper conservative civilization.

Murray Rothbard: There should be a lively market in everything, even children.

You can even use the Hoppe community ethics thing to over-extend abortion to things. Black? Abortion. Muslim? Abortion. Liberal? Abortion. White conservative? No abortion.

You can do this, I believe in you.

[riverbendviewgal]

79. perhaps you should reconsider

The marriage unless you and your bride live far away. And the visit would be once a year or less.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

83. I suggest something like

"Excuse me, but I'd really like to get to know you better, since we are going to be family soon. I think we already know enough about each other that we can agree to disagree on politics. So...why don't you tell me what "fiancé" was like when she was a little girl?" Wicked grin

They're people, too, and probably love their daughter very much. Just continue to let them know that you love her, too, and want peace and harmony.

[Phentex]

115. That's pretty good advice...

redirect - like a Google virus!

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

117. I refuse to hate my relatives who are Republican

on that basis ALONE.

Life's too short to hate relatives and friends over politics, or, even religion although in my family that can get more awkward than the politics disagreements.

[Feral Child]

85. Commiseration!

This is an ambush and the best you can do is disarm it: neutral responses or subject changing.

The kind of man that holds such views is already hostile about "losing" his daughter, not because of parental attachment but pure jealousy. You might as well be stealing his dog or his favorite firearm.

Don't engage. You couldn't win with this type, even if there wasn't a daughter he can hold hostage.

Now, if you could offer him a doob, things might go well, but more than likely you'll need to drink his scotch. A gift of an appropriate beverage might actually be a good idea.

Good luck!

[marions ghost]

95. I second the idea of bringing a gift

often a good way to neutralize the selfish and greedy.

[Feral Child]

110. Yeppers.

And all such folk are selfish and greedy. +, it would make them feel they're exacting Tribute, reinforcing their false superiority caused by their actual insecurities.

[marions ghost]

141. Right exactly

Tribute--that's how they see it. The guest attests to the host's worth by bringing a gift (just food or something appropriate for the occasion--maybe some sinful chocolates or if they drink, some special bottle).

It could well be worth it to PAY for the privilege of being treated better--which in their book would probably mean less baiting and flaunting of their politics-- which they already know would disturb their guest. Softens em up.

A peace offering of sorts. Have used this with people I really don't want to be with, but have to.
It works.

[msanthrope]

86. Non-defensive, non-explanatory, polite replies:

"That sounds very difficult for you."

"I had not seen that news item."

"I haven't been following much news lately--I never do around the holidays."

"I hope that works out for you."

[marions ghost]

96. Yep

the maddeningly neutral replies might have to be rehearsed but they're a good strategy.

[marions ghost]

97. Bonus points for smiling

while being "polite" and maddeningly neutral.

[Peacetrain]

87. So sorry... I have them in my family too

and it is the people who benefit most from all the things the President has done.. and you cannot reason with them.. they are glassy eyed and tuned into FOX news.. and Rush Limbaugh..

When you are totally outnumbered.. the best thing you can do is move to the next room and do not let them draw you into their train wreck..

There is just no reasoning with them

Feign illness (and it will not be a lie.. you will be ill if you listen to that garbage for more than 10 minutes) and leave early..

Better yet..upon arrival.. and I plan on doing this.. I am making the announcement that the holidays are a political free zone.. time to remember family, talk about how everyone is doing and just be.. (since I am hosting it is very easy for me to set those parameters and those who cannot abide by that are free to pick up their piece of pie and leave)

[Paladin]

89. I gave into similar requests from my wife, years ago.

Then my father-in-law went and died suddenly and early, so I never got to give the hyper-conservative old prick a well-deserved piece of my mind. I guess on balance I'm glad I gritted my teeth and maintained silence: my wife was pleased with me, and my father-in-law never lived to see his beautiful, accomplished grandchildren. Call it even, in my case. Best of luck in dealing with your situation; like I've said before: If perfect strangers treated one another the way family members treat one another, the human population of this planet would be gone inside a year.....

[Dreamer Tatum]

90. You can't put politics aside for one day? Not even one?

You know exactly what to do: let it slide. Isn't a pleasant day with your fiancee (or fiance, can't tell) worth not getting into it with people whose opinions don't matter anyway?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

120. Why don't THEY let it slide?

Why do Teabaggers feel the inherent need to "get their shit in" and we have to be the biiger people and fucking take it? EVERYONE should shut the fuck up and enjoy their dinner, but Teabaggers get a fucking kick out of displaying what assholes they are.

[Dreamer Tatum]

123. Who cares? Does the fate of the world depend on parrying a few arguments?

What a sad, pathetic, angry little existence some people live.

Oh well.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

126. "What a sad, pathetic, angry little existence some people live"

You're right, but I get the feeling the people you think are sad are not the same ones I do.

Which ain't real surprising. Something tells me you'd be pretty comfortable at that table.

[Dreamer Tatum]

132. I would be. Know why? Because I'm an adult, and I can hold my tongue.

I don't let inconsequential strangers with stupid ideas and attitudes get me all butthurt. I don't need
to insist on my politics, especially when the impact of doing so is actually negative.

Especially when I am a guest and was invited by someone I supposedly love and with whom I intend to live.


It's a dinner table, not a desert island.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

134. What if one of those people decided to start throwing around the n-word?

Is there any point, morally, where you refuse to break bread with someone?

And don't act like that's not a possibility coming from a Louis Ghomer supporter.

[hamsterjill]

91. I think you should be respectful, but I don't think you should have to be offended.

I think a simple "I don't agree" followed by a "please pass me some more of those wonderful mashed potatoes" might be appropriate.

If they push, you might add that you don't think political and/or religious discussions are appropriate for a holiday dinner - following that with "does anyone have a wine bottle that is open"? If they are Gohmert district voters, they're probably flaming Baptists and don't drink.

That'll pretty much do you in!!! LOL

I wish you the best of luck sincerely. These types of gatherings are always a bit difficult. I'm sure your fiancé is simply trying to keep the peace, but I don't feel she should expect you to act like someone you are not.

[Sissyk]

92. Easy Peasey!

"and she is begging me to stow it."

If you care about her, stow it. Or, don't go at all.

I swear! I never understand this. I have far right relatives and far left relatives. We are all together on Thanksgiving and somehow manage to get through the day without discussing politics at all. If, and that's a big if, someone brings it up; the rest change the subject.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

99. The thing about this is that it is the hosts who are bringing taboo topics up in

this social situation where not everyone agrees. It's hard enough to handle if it's a drunk uncle, but this is the host of dinner that wants to bring it up.

I will attempt to resist for the sake of my fiancee's wishes to keep the peace. It will be difficult if steering them away to another topic proves to be a challenge. They have said that fox news is all they watch on TV. Ugh!

[Sissyk]

137. Well, good luck to you!

Surely on Thanksgiving, they are not watching TV unless it's football or Christmas movies. lol!!

You can also tell your girlfriend to help you out here and be firm with her own parents if they get on the topic of politics. I'd call mine down in a heartbeat.

Again, good luck and y'all have fun!

[LordGlenconner]

98. Here's what to do: Don't Go

DON'T GO.

It really is that simple.

Life is too short.

One of the great priorities in my life is spending zero time with people I find insufferable. That's one reason why I have no conservative friends. At all.

These people in your fiance's family sound like a bunch of obnoxious low lifes.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

107. Of course you are right, everything you said. Sigh. nt

[LordGlenconner]

119. And since not going is not an option

I echo others here who have said just smile pleasantly and nod and don't go down the rabbit hole.

These people have zero redeeming value so don't waste your time or give yourself a headache trying.

It's a shame that you have to spend an otherwise enjoyable holiday with cretins.

[simak]

100. What if it was the other way around?

What would you consider acceptable behavior from the only conservative at a gathering dominated by liberals? Is there some reason you couldn't afford a houseful of conservatives the same courtesy?

Btw, in my experience Republicans are equipped with plenty of actual, verifiable facts - just not usually the ones I believe are important.

Also, try to remember that what they discuss among themselves is not necessarily intended to bait you. So don't turn it into bait. I always get a kick out of listening to the other side anyway. Helps me refine/confirm my own positions on things.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

105. republican voters are the stupidest humans on this planet! Equipped with plenty of facts, pffft!!!

[simak]

109. That's it, really charm them. You'll do fine. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

128. LOL

This is laughable, considering I just argued with a guy at work to whom every argument I posed to him was simply met with "That's not true, the media lied"

[simak]

146. I guess that would depend on your arguments. The media is often less than forthcoming. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

161. Oh, I can see how this is gonna go..... n/m

[TBF]

129. This line -

"Btw, in my experience Republicans are equipped with plenty of actual, verifiable facts"

This is interesting. Where did you find such Republicans?

[simak]

145. I'm in a red county, and I know plenty of them.

They're not all Klansmen and rednecks here, you know.

[TBF]

147. Yes actually I know Wisconsin

quite well - having spent the first part of my life there.

What you used to have is unions and democrats. People had good jobs working in factories and a lot less hate for each other. There certainly were folks that belonged to the Posse Comitatus but they certainly weren't the majority. That is the Wisconsin I grew up in.

Now you have Scott Walker and the churches. You're voting red because you believe in "family values" - and against your own economic interests. I don't know why y'all are doing that. Well, yes I do.

[simak]

164. Actually, I'm native New Yorker in a conservative part of Florida.

Most of my family is not very liberal. We're moderate Democrats who are blue collar, pro-gun, pro-union, Catholic and pro-life. I went to private schools and believe in school vouchers. My Republican friends and I are not always on opposite sides.

Family members I have talked to do not favor Obamacare, and I would say half my family did not vote for Obama in 2012.

[bettyellen]

166. being against reproductive choice is NOT being a moderate Democratic.

[simak]

167. Never heard of Bart Stupak?

[Mr Dixon]

102. SMH

My in-laws are like this but we both agree to not talk about politics and or religion.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

104. I'm going to avoid allowing myself to be drawn into their dark little world, Mr Dixon. nt

[Takket]

106. arguing with them is only going to make your fiancee miserable.

in addition, it would be a waste of your time. misguided people in the middle you can talk to but baggers... they are a lost cause. Just change the subject and remember that you cancel out at least one of their votes lol

[ChisolmTrailDem]

108. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw their colors: Well, at least I'll be cancelling out

one for their votes, lol!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

111. Ooh boy, maybe we'll make NewsBusters again!

Far Left Democratic Underground Members Discuss How to Deal With Menace of Fox News in Public Places

"Far left." Now *that's* funny.

[muntrv]

116. Ask them if they feel safe eating the turkey. If so, remind them that it is because

some big gubmint libruhl inspected the meat, as so dictated by law.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/RepublicanDay.htm

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

118. Thank God I have none of these issues with family

Work is another story. We just hired a rabid Teabagger and he will not shut up about Obama, illegals, voter ID....

[oldandhappy]

121. get sick and do not go

Your own mental health is important. Sometimes ya gotta not suffer. You want to keep that relationship, you need to not fight. Best way to not fight is to get sick, or have an emergency in your own family and take off in another direction. Assume the two families are not geographically close. If they are, get sick. I took 60 people off my FB last year because it was just not worth it to continue the BS. Be honest with your self and your woman and do not go. You will have major indigestion! Or she can talk to her parents and work the 'stow it' from that side!!

Good luck.

[LawDeeDah]

122. Don't go. Why torture yourself. Cut the cord.

I have severed myself from people like that and once again, life is beautiful. I didn't know how negatively those relationships impacted on me until I was free of them.

[elfin]

124. Just say ---

" I'd agree with you, but unfortunately I have a three digit IQ. More wine, please?"

[TBF]

125. We order Turkey ahead of time

and have a big feast while watching Football. It is a great day with immediate family only

When I was dating my now husband I would suddenly develop sinus headaches and have to lie down when his father would start in on "the liberals". These are not folks you can reason with. Tip: hold holidays in your own home so you are either cooking in the kitchen or can lock yourself in your bedroom and read while the rest of them are watching FAUX news in the other room.

[dilby]

127. If you love your Fiance it would be best to maybe just ignore them.

They will be your inlaws and unless you like them talking shit about you every minute of your life behind your back to your fiance then I would just suck it up and ignore them. From my experience with women any time you fuck up, they tell their family and it's better if her family likes you and says stuff like, "well he did something stupid, maybe you should sleep on it" over "never trusted the son of a bitch in the first place, why don't you come home honey".

[juliann9494]

131. Dinner

I'm lucky, my entire family is Liberal ,except for one in law and we live in Texas.

[Vinca]

138. If I were you, I wouldn't go. I can't imagine why your fiance wants to be there.

Imagine the whole rest of your married life if you're expected to show up for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, the 4th of July and, in their case, National Hate Obama Day. It will be hell. Your fiancé should be understanding given the circumstances.

[Warpy]

139. I'd politely try to switch the subject

Talking politics over dinner sours the food, even if it's politics i can agree with.

I'd also suggest the geographical cure, moving at least 1000 miles away, before you marry that gal. "Can't afford it/manage the time off" is a great deterrent to too much togetherness.

I wish physicians would recognize what an extreme problem it has become in a lot of families and prescribe a day's worth of Xanax for any day that has to be spent with hostile right wingers.

I don't suggest drinking. Yes, it numbs you out, but it also disinhibits you and you might punch one of the worst of the jerks.

But yeah, those people just love to hate.

[Jenoch]

140. You should listen to your girlfriend.

She seems like a wise woman. Do not take the bait from your future inlaws. The best thing you can do is to choose not to participate in any discussion about politics.

[ileus]

148. Go watch some football ignore political conversations.

If they insist, just start surfing on your phone and put everyone on ignore.

[Islandurp]

150. Dress as a giant turkey, and respond to any questions with "gobble"

If you make their entire evening as awkward as possible they will be hesitant to invite you to any future outings.

[Arugula Latte]

156. Maybe Paul Simon will loan his out...

although "giant" might be a bit of a stretch, as Paul is a bit on the tiny side.

[abelenkpe]

152. My family back east are the same

I dread having to see them. They take every opportunity to regurgitate the latest punditry from FOX news or Rush Limbaugh. No amount of requests to please not discuss politics will stop them. In fact such requests are an invitation to fight. So I stopped visiting. I don't miss them. Thanksgiving is far more enjoyable with my own little family and friends. Perhaps you can start your own tradition without?

[Niceguy1]

153. if you love her

Then you need to bite your tongue and try to get along. Turning thanksgiving into a political argument is not cool.

[boston bean]

154. just keep it quiet. If you love your fiancee, that is what you will do.

Why would you want to make her Thanksgiving that uncomfortable for her around her family?

Would you like it if she did that to you and your family on a holiday. How the hell important is it anyhow on Thanksgiving to give people a piece of your mind when you aren't going to have to listen to it daily. It's one day for goodness sakes. Keep the peace.

[AngryAmish]

155. I am always sober on Thanksgiving.

DD and kids and all that.

Don't be me.

[KT2000]

157. no need to engage

because what they are doing is being rude and might I say - bullying.
No one should have to put up with being shown disrespect and lack of consideration.
I was treated that way by my cousin's husband when I was their guest. As far as I'm concerned he put his idiot political beliefs before family so - that was my last visit.
There was a time when people had manners but with the TP people - no more.

Personally, I think you should find a way to not go and your fiancé should not expect you to. Seriously - you guys are going to have to work this out because the holidays come every year. Are you supposed to be their dart board from here on out? It is their problem and they need to fix it.

[BlueJazz]

158. The one time I was in a situation, such as yours, I made believe that I was an actor..

...and was making a film about a spy and I had to observe everybody's behavior.
Actually, it was rather fun.

[LeftInTX]

162. Eat as quickly as possible and go for a long walk afterward

One thing good about Gomer's district is that it has a bunch of national forests etc. Get on Google map and search ahead of time for nice place to get out of the house for awhile.