General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAngry dad doesn’t think daughter should have to learn about Islam because he was a Marine
Angry dad doesnt think daughter should have to learn about Islam because he was a Marine
Travis Gettys
24 Nov 2014 at 13:27 ET
A Maryland family apparently plans to sue their daughters high school over an assignment that included lessons on the Muslim religion.
John Kevin Wood was banned last month from La Plata High School when school officials claimed he threatened to cause a sh*tstorm and disrupt classes over the world history lesson.
School officials considered the comments to be a threat against public safety, but the U.S. Marine veterans wife and attorneys insist he did nothing wrong.
The schools actions not only dishonored John Woods service, but the service of all men and women in our Armed Forces who defended our nation from Islamic violence, said the conservative Christian Thomas More Law Center in a statement.
The family and their lawyers claim the girl was required to affirm there is no god but Allah and other aspects of the Muslim faith, but school officials say the class covered only the role of Islam in the history and politics of the Middle East where it has been the dominant religion for centuries.
More:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/angry-dad-doesnt-think-daughter-should-have-to-learn-about-islam-because-he-was-a-marine/
hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)but, with this guy, I'd say it fits. How damned ignorant.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)This guy brings back some not-so-fond memories of them.
Not to mention more than a few bigots.
hedda_foil
(16,368 posts)And this specimen looks like he got into the marines when they were scraping the bottom of stupid.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)...it will say the daughter also was forced to get fitted for a suicide vest.
world wide wally
(21,719 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)sarisataka
(18,222 posts)Before deploying to the Middle East with the 8th Marines we had several classes on the Muslim religion.
"There is no God but Allah" is the first of the five pillars of Islam.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Of course, the horrified battle over whether or not Allah is the same as this biblical "God" rages on.
sarisataka
(18,222 posts)the same roots as Judeo-Christian beliefs, that is an uncomfortable question for hate mongers.
And we know how people tend to react to questions that make them uncomfortable.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Muslims couldn't be included in this forgive and forget love fest. He asked me if Jesus ever murdered anybody. My jaw dropped to the floor. I couldn't believe he had tried to discredit an entire religion based on some of the very actions taken by Christians in the Bible. Apparently Jesus was perfect therefore Christianity is better than Islam. Definitely an uncomfortable question for hate mongers.
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)If only Christians, Muslims and Jews would stop killing each other long enough to figure out they all worshiped the same god.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)sakabatou
(42,083 posts)uppityperson
(115,674 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)school, how many here would feel differently about him?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)and learning ABOUT religion in schools.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Promoting religion in school is not the same as including the beliefs of various cultures when teaching their history or looking at current events. Both states I've taught in have included a section of history for 6th grade dealing with the beginnings of monotheism in the Fertile Crescent AND a section dealing with the rise of Islam for 7th grade. Predictably, I've never upset parents by dealing with ancient Hebrew tribes and monotheism, but every single time I've had to present "the rise of Islam since 9/11, I've had at least one parent, sometimes many, storming the gates in protest. How vigorously teachers pursue this branch of history is definitely tied to how well admins have our backs when this shit hits the fan.
I don't share my belief system/faith/or lack of one with students...ever. I am biblically knowledgable, so can make connections for them, but I don't share. The only teachers I know who do are those who attend the kind of churches that advocate public declarations of faith. And even then, the vast majority know better than to dwell on it.
Of course, I don't share my politics with my students, either, although they certainly demand to know during election cycles. I DO have class discussions and debates, with the enforced expectation that evidence beyond "I heard it on the radio/saw it on tv/my dad/cousin/uncle/grandma says..." anecdotal evidence will be offered up to back up any opinion expressed.
I've always thought that the majority of my students simply think that I have the same religious and political affiliations they do, because they like my class and respect me. Those who don't like being held accountable for that unbiased evidence assume I have the OPPOSITE affiliations.
I never tell them.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)class this year. He learned what role they played in modern history and even learned the basic tenants of belief of each religion. I didn't have a problem with it. I think as long as it is objective and academic then there is nothing wrong with young people learning a few basic facts about the world's religions. Some high schools even offer an elective Comparative Religion class which I think is great. I took a comparative religion class in college and found it very objective and informative. Quite frankly, I think a comparative religion class could be the answer to the dispute of whether or not religion belongs in the classroom. Creationism obviously doesn't belong in the science classroom, but taught alongside other creation stories from other religions along with other philosophies, the Christian creation story could be taught in a comparative religion class. Of course that would require conservative Christians to allow their children to be taught information regarding other religions which is highly unlikely.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)not making or setting them off in school.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)uppityperson
(115,674 posts)Same as including what other extremists believe in the discussion of extremism.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)You seem to be under the impression that providing students with relevant information to the subject they are studying is the same thing as an endorsement of a system of beliefs. It is hard to give a clear picture of history of such things as the Crusades, the settling of the North American continent by the puritans, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, ancient Greece and Rome, the Aztecs, the Ottoman empire etc...without some discussion of the religious backgrounds of those points in history.
By the same token, you can't just say "And the Scopes trial was a very famous trial about evolution being taught in school." and leave it at that. What kind of education is that? What was controversial?
For that matter, you would probably not discuss the history of science without some mention alchemy and astrology.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)play a central role in the topic at hand, but is it relevant in to a discussion of the crusades or the expansion of Christianity or Islam, for example?
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)but I am an atheist and am outspoken about separation of church and state. Having a state sponsored religion taught in school is not anywhere near the same thing as teaching the historical importance of religion and how it has shaped our world. I have no problem at all with learning. I have a huge problem with indoctrination. This case is nowhere near indoctrination.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)In high school we discussed the spread of Christianity and Islam and their effects on the world without delving into the specific beliefs of each, and I don't feel like I was cheated in history class.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)history course, though.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nobody is getting out a prayer rug and praising Allah. They are talking about a religion that helped form western civilization, so it will be talked about in American history.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)just the specific tenets of each religion. Do your really need to know the 10 commandments or the 5 pilars of Islam to discuss the impact of those religions on western civ?
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)what the differences in the religions is part of that. Or do you prefer they discuss "the role of Islam in the history and politics of the Middle East" without saying anything about what Islam is? It seems the role of schools to educate and encourage the students to be interested in learning as well as learn things.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Bible is important when discussing the crusades.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)and other such things. However, in our country with typically greater knowledge of Christianity, they probably don't have to do as in depth education in the school.
There is a difference between proselytizing and educating about the basic religious differences. I was involved with a school district that had this sort of thing happen during a history class but the teacher inserted "money hungry jews" into their lesson which was way beyond proper. I see no problem discussing the differences between the largest religions while discussing their role in history and politics.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)it's going to happen somewhere, but I would hope a hammer came down on that teacher.
We can argue all day about just where the limits of objectivity in the classroom might be, but there should be no discussion about bigotry.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)recorded for another student who was absent. It was pretty wild.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)And the role it played in history. Without that background one is left with "Wow, Pope Clement VII was kind of a dick."
hughee99
(16,113 posts)of the 10 commandments necessary?
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)If you are content with giving students only the most rudimentary education, then I would agree. If you are trying to give students a good education, then a more in depth background into other cultures would be helpful (such as the root causes for splits between between cultures). Finding that balance is difficult.
And to be quite honest, the claims being made by the Thomas More Law Center can likely be taken with a grain of salt.
From what I can tell the big sticking point from this is that they said Islam, Christianity, and Judaism worship the same god (or something to that effect). That seems to piss extremists off to no end even though it is factually correct.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)but as far as giving the students the "most rudimentary education", I disagree. Spending a lot of time on "context" is time that's not spent on other topics. If it's not really relevant to the lesson they're teaching, it's not necessarily the most productive use of their time.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)It is a rich tapestry that is all too often turned into a dry, boring subject by folks who just want people to have the most cursory look at our past. Like going to visit the Smithsonian and spending only 2 seconds at each exhibit.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Yes, history is a rich tapestry, but the amount of time one has for lessons is very limited. I can appreciate the Wright brothers airplane without delving into what kind of wood they used (though perhaps it sparked an interest and I can do that another time), and still have time to make it over to the hall of mammals.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)"...And that's why they did this way back when..." etc...
But everything is wrong with teaching religious beliefs as fact and especially steering the lessons towards a certain religion being the truth.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Also, the concept of "steering the lesson" can be pretty subjective.
Niko
(97 posts)Religion needs to be taught to children for what it is: A false set of beliefs passed down through the generations via childhood indoctrination. This is the truth, and education is what cures the masses of the most successful scam in human history.
JI7
(89,185 posts)right wingers are always afraid of just learning about things.
mercuryblues
(14,491 posts)from when it happened. He was also very upset the school banned him. He deserved it after threatening to come into the school and disrupt classes. His FB page was full of Islamophobic rantings and it has since been scrubbed. Sure hope the school screen capped them.
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10025727568
lpbk2713
(42,697 posts)"What is your major malfunction Numb Nuts?"
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,273 posts)Unfortunately, the Moran in the picture would probably agree with numbnuts.
world wide wally
(21,719 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)--I don't see any connection to Vietnam, Walter.
--Well, there isn't a literal connection, Dude.
Retrograde
(10,073 posts)both in religion class (since it's a major religion that has common roots with Christianity and Judaism) and world history class (because Islam had a ginormous effect on European history in the Middle Ages).
I can understand people being ignorant: not everyone has the opportunity to learn everything. But I can't forgive people for knowingly wrapping themselves in their ignorance as if it were a point of pride.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)did the same, in world religion and world history...
In world religion class, we did have a very loud and rude phone call complaint from a parent to the school's office about it, but I never heard about anything else...
helpmetohelpyou
(589 posts)TlalocW
(15,359 posts)The girl was required to affirm, "There is no god but Allah." Yeah, like that's really going to happen. They make these stupid claims that only people like them will believe, and then they in turn happily fall for claims made by others of their brethren to keep an outrage/hate cycle going. Had to swear to Allah; there are college professors out there who will flunk students for believing in God, etc. etc.
TlalocW
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)mercuryblues
(14,491 posts)gets kicked out of court or he is ruled against, it feeds into their persecution claims.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)She's probably reading about it now.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)where they will learn not only about Islam, but every other major religion, including Atheism. Oh, HORROR. Cannot let children THINK for themselves. Hmm. Maybe true. With this kind of education (Comparative Religions), children might learn to question their OWN (parents) religion.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Typical anti-intellectual bullshit that so hurts this nation. Who gives a shit what you want, the state has decided to educate your daughter so she doesn't turn out to be a dumb fuck like DADDY.
Texasgal
(17,029 posts)I don't think ANY religion should be taught in school period.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)on point
(2,506 posts)Runningdawg
(4,496 posts)needs to stay home and school his child, or send her to a private religious school. Why is it so many wingers still use public education when all they ever do is complain about the indoctrination of their children?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)type of faith. When I was a freshman in high school we studies religions as part of it. We were not being asked to affirm anything. Merely to understand what role the religion played in the issues of the time in history.
polichick
(37,152 posts)based on his own name.