The Evangelical "Stay-At-Home" Daughter Movement

[RainDog]

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2010/12/what-is-the-evangelical-stay-at-home-daughters-movement/

“Daughters aren’t to be independent. They’re not to act outside the scope 
of their father. As long as they’re under the authority of their fathers, fathers have the ability to nullify or not the oaths and the vows. Daughters can’t just go out 
independently and say, ‘I’m going to marry whoever I want.’ No. The father has 
the ability to say, ‘No, I’m sorry, that has to be approved by me.’”

Doug Phillips, the man quoted above...is the San Antonio minister is the founder of Vision Forum, a beachhead for what’s known as the Christian Patriarchy Movement, a branch of evangelical Christianity that takes beliefs about men as leaders and women as homemakers to anachronistic extremes. Vision Forum Ministries is, according to its Statements of Doctrine, “committed to affirming the historic faith of Biblical Christianity,” with special attention to the historical faith found in the book of Genesis, when God created Eve as a “helper” to Adam. According to Christian Patriarchy, marriage bonds man (the symbol of Christ) to woman (the symbol of the Church). It’s a model that situates husbands and fathers in a position of absolute power: If a woman disobeys her “master,” whether father or husband, she’s defying God. Thus, women in the Christian Patriarchy Movement aren’t just stay-at-home mothers—they’re stay-at-home daughters as well. And many of them wouldn’t have 
it any other way.

The stay-at-home-daughters movement, which is promoted by Vision Forum, encourages young girls and single women to forgo college and outside employment in favor of training as “keepers at home” until they marry. Young women pursuing their own ambitions and goals are viewed as selfish and antifamily; marriage is not a choice or one piece of a larger life plan, but the ultimate goal. Stay-at-home daughters spend their days learning “advanced homemaking” skills, such as cooking and sewing, and other skills that at one time were a necessity—knitting, crocheting, soap- and candle-making. A father is considered his daughter’s authority until he transfers control to her husband.

...Integral to Vision Forum’s belief about female submission is making sure women are not independent at any point in their lives, regardless of age; hence the organization’s enthusiasm for stay-at-home daughterhood. The most visible proponents of this belief are Anna Sofia and Elizabeth Botkin, sisters and authors of the book So Much More: The Remarkable Influence of Visionary Daughters on the Kingdom of God (published by Vision Forum), and creators of the documentary film Return of the Daughters, which follows several young women staying home until marriage, and details how they spend their time serving their fathers. One woman, Melissa Keen, 25, helps put on Vision Forum’s annual Father-Daughter Retreat, an event that’s described on Vision Forum’s website in terms that are, in a word, discomfiting. (“He leads her, woos her, and wins her with a tenderness and affection unique to the bonds of father and daughter.”) Another, 23-year-old Katie Valenti, enthuses that her father “is the greatest man in my life. I believe that helping my father in his business is a better use of my youth and is helping prepare me to be a better helpmeet for my future husband, rather than indulging in selfishness and pursuing my own success and selfish ambitions.” (A video of Valenti’s 2009 wedding to Phillip Bradrick shows her father announcing into a microphone that he is “transferring my authority to you, Phillip.”)

this truly makes me want to vomit. I feel so sorry for girls who have the misfortune to be born into one of these families.

I don't know what makes this any different than any other nutcase cult.

[Justice wanted]

1. And Michelle Duggar is helping to make this such a "glamous" idea.

Last edited Fri Apr 20, 2012, 02:15 AM - Edit history (1)

[RainDog]

6. one reason I'm glad I don't have cable

I have never seen this show.

as someone who grew up in the fundie south - I cannot tell you how much this creeps me out.

[Orangepeel]

20. Is the duggar show glamorous?

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm really curious.

There are a lot of reasons why the Duggar show is terrible, but don't they come across more like carnival freaks than role models?

I can't imagine a girl watching the show and thinking, "that's what I want my life to be!". Unless they are thinking they want to be on television and then they are just as likely to end up on "The Bachelor" or "Survivor" (which is a whole different discussion)

[PassingFair]

26. The divestment of responsibility can be attractive to young girls.

If things don't work out, it's not their fault.

No agonizing decisions to make.

All they have to do is what they're told.

Tra la la......

[TheWraith]

67. ...

...if "doing what they're told" is considered a cool thing, I think clearly we've met different young girls.

[PassingFair]

68. Some children are more "biddable" than others.

My oldest daughter, who DOES NOT like to be told what to do,
admitted that the abdication of responsibility was an attractive
IDEA to her, when I criticized her for watching "The Duggars"
on a regular basis.

[TheWraith]

69. That would last exactly until she actually had to do it. nt

[Tom Ripley]

2. I call them fecundamentalists

[RainDog]

4. LOL n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. I call them talibornagains

[BlancheSplanchnik]

70. BAAHAAAAA!!! Good one!!

you can see them driving around in their Sport Fertility Vehicles

[RainDog]

72. LOL. This thread is full of DUZYs

"Sport Fertility Vehicles"

[LeftyMom]

3. The weird thing is that most of these young women's mothers are educated women.

For that matter, most of them met their husbands in college. Victoria Botkin did. I don't know where she expects Anna Sofia and Elizabeth to meet somebody, they live in BFE, don't have drivers' licenses and go to church on the family compound. I guess that's why they do so many fundamentalist pinup photos/ historical reenactments.

I read way too much about these people.

[RainDog]

5. Maybe the dad will pick out a suitable match

brrrrrrrrrrr.

reminds me of purity balling on steroids.

[LeftyMom]

7. In theory that's how it works.

The problem is that their movement is doing a MUCH better job of turning out young women who are ready to be wives and mothers than young men who are ready to be fathers and husbands. So well-regarded young women in this movement have been married off to:

-serially married scam artists who haven't quite divorced their last wife
-men repeatedly charged with child molestation
-underage boys
-as well as any number of losers with a half-assed education and a business that appears to be more of a whim or a hobby than a means of supporting a family. The latter group being the majority of the fundie male dating pool under thirty.

You'd think such a small community could do a better job of screening out the creeps. But I think the fathers are more concerned about their potential son in law's theology than his ability to support their daughter or whether he might molest the grandkids, because they genuinely think that if you get the theology right nothing really bad can happen.

[RainDog]

9. omg

it's worse for those girls than I could imagine.

has CPS ever investigated them?

[Ecumenist]

8. Okay, so what happens if "Prince Charming" leaves her high and dry...Then what?

This is a BAD, hell HORRIFIC cult because they DO NOT LIVE IN A BUBBLE no matter what they want to believe.

[RainDog]

10. it's really creepy, isn't it?

I read somewhere that some xtian fund cults make men sign a contract that requires him to support his wife if he leaves. and that is good as the papyrus it's scratched on.

[exboyfil]

18. That is why I emphasized to both my daughters

the need to take their education seriously in expectation of majoring in a STEM career in college. My oldest is planning on engineering (she is a Sophomore this year planning on taking College Chemistry this summer and a bunch of college classes between now and graduation - letting the state pay for most of them). My youngest is planning on going to medical school to be a surgeon (undergraduate in Biochemisry). They, to the best of their ability, will be dependent on no one.

I am a little surprised by groups like this. In general our highest performing girls in High School are also active in particular churches. We don't see the undercurrent of this dependency being taught by this clown.

[XemaSab]

39. Virtually all of them are homeschooled

Public school is godless and Marxist and Darwinist.

[exboyfil]

53. I guess I could mention our homeschoolers

too who are Homeschooling on cultural and moral grounds mostly. One daugther is going to complete her Chemistry degree before she turns 21. Another daughter is now in AP Calculus at the High School as a 10th grader (best in the class). Another daughter is pre-Pharmacy at a highly regarded private college (along with being an All-State in music several years). My 8th grade daughter who was homeschooled in Science, English, and Social Studies has completed 10th grade Biology already (she will be going full-time public school next year but we may elect to go dual enroll in the future - she has been incredibly bored in her 9th grade Physical Science class an an 8th grader). I am not doing it for moral reasons (even though drug dealing at the middle school has made me wonder).

[XemaSab]

58. I'm a big fan of homeschooling

but I think the capstone of a good home education should be a good college education.

LeftyMom was saying that a lot of the girls are fairly polished, mature women who are ready to be wives and mothers when they're 18, but almost none of the boys are ready to be husbands and fathers at the same age. A big part of why I think that is is that almost none of these young men have jobs or career paths at that age. A lot of these people are smart and motivated, but I think the lack of college is going to hold a lot of the younger generations down, careerwise.

[Warpy]

11. Lincoln freed everybody

and any of these poor brainwashed young women who wants more will kick her way out and find it the way those of us who were brought up in the 40s and 50s had to do it.

You see, well brought up young ladies in the 50s, even those with college degrees who had failed to snag some college kid for a husband or who had decent jobs right out of high school were expected to live at home until they married. If they must follow employment to another city, they were told to live at a YWCA or women's hotel, preferably with roommates as though they were still in a dorm.

I'm a part of that generation who blew our parents' fuses when we not only left home, we refused to live in a sorority situation and got our own flats or horror or horrors, moved in with a boyfriend.

I can well see these "stay at home daughters" packing their clothing into a garbage bag and sneaking out in the dead of night, never to return. There are plenty of us who did nearly as dramatic an escape who can tell them what to do next.

[Tax Man]

12. i wonder what else they have to obey daddy on

[Proud Liberal Dem]

19. Working in Child Protection Services

that's where my mind went to as well.

[Ilsa]

13. Is this much different from slavery?

God, I hope this crap doesn't spread.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. Makes the Taliban feel proud.

[DCKit]

22. I wonder. It sounds more like theological competition.

It'll make it harder to recruit dissatisfied fundamentalist Xians to fundamentalist Muslim when they have a Xian alternative that's every bit as hardline. Honor killings are a next logical step.

Way to go, TaliBaptists!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. Telefundie TaliBaptists. Me likey

[Proud Liberal Dem]

15. Seems a little bit cultish (and ripe for abuse) to me

But, hey, just about anything is considered protected as long as "religion" is cited as its justification/foundation.

[KG]

16. religion is delusion

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. True. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. I once read a study years back in ye olde College

that measured incidence of mental illness, together with the strength of one's religious beliefs. The stronger a belief that a person self-reported, (and apparently they tested it several ways), the higher the incidence of certain mental illnesses.

My problem is that I don't know which is the chicken or which is the egg. Does mental illness drive religious beliefs? Along the lines of alcohol/drug abuse actually being an effort at self medication? Or do people who believe in ancient fairy tales have a tendency of being fucking nuts?

[sarcasmo]

75. +1

[malaise]

17. Another version of the fugging Taliban

Fugg 'em

[treestar]

21. They can say that all they want but legally can't force

the daughter to marry anyone. I would hope this just plain doesn't work out.

[hobbit709]

28. You think "legal" ever stopped a fundy?

[treestar]

51. It could, but the girl would have to refuse to marry

the guy picked out. The social pressure on the girl is all that makes it work. A tough and feisty girl could refuse.

[XemaSab]

42. Usually the daughters are given veto power which they can use before it gets too far along

However, a lot of the daughters don't really know what they're getting into beforehand.

For example, I'm friends with a guy who is bisexual and very worldly and dare I say feminist in many ways, but he's a smart guy and he can talk the fundie talk with the best of them. He's also way more accomplished than most young men in the group.

He can basically have his pick of the girls, but I could see a young woman thinking she's getting this "perfect" young man whereas really I can't see him staying in the group forever, at least not without a lot of critical thinking and hypocrisy.

With conventional dating, I think there's a lot more room in the system for learning what people are really like before marriage, whereas with their courting system it's easy for people to fake it for a long time.

[tanyev]

23. And what color burkas does he prefer that women wear?

[Egalitarian Thug]

31. Gingham. n/t

[Brickbat]

36. The sect where I live (that follows teachings similar to this one about daughters) has no regulation

or bans on any types of clothing; you can't tell someone from the sect just by looking.

Not to take anything away from your one-liner.

[XemaSab]

43. Where do you live?

And what is the group called?

[Brickbat]

44. Northeastern Minnesota.

It's the Old Apostolic Lutherans. There are small pockets of them across the U.S.

[XemaSab]

45. Interesting! I hadn't heard of them

Most of the fundies in this article are homeschooled though.

[Brickbat]

62. That's what I find fascinating -- the kids up here are fairly mainstream, but are married as soon as

they graduate. OTOH, they're generally not allowed to participate in sports, performing arts or other extracurricular activities.

[RainDog]

71. LOL. perfect. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Sick!

[Egalitarian Thug]

30. There is no difference, they're all nucking futs. K&R. n/t

[Brickbat]

32. There's a sect where I live that follows guidelines similar to these. My kids go to school with a

lot of these kids and it's infuriating. And someone above nailed it on the head -- the group is a lot more concerned about the daughters than the sons.

[LibertyLover]

33. I am currently reading "Quiverfull" about

the movement within right-wing Christianity to keep women out of the workforce and put her back in the home, barefoot and pregnant. This stay-at-home daughter thing is mentioned in there too. It's quite bizarre as far as I'm concerned.

[white_wolf]

34. These fools are trapped in the past.

They are fighting a losing battle and they know it. Their precious "family values" are slowly fading away as society realizes they are no longer necessary. I remember reading about a poll that showed a significant number of young people no longer even view marriage as an important institution. I can't remember the numbers and wasn't near a majority, but it was a large enough number that it was interesting. We had a discussion in a Sociology course I'm in and the question was on love and marriage and several people in my group, both men and women, said they have no plans to get married, ever. The just don't view it as important. Overall, all of these "family values" are archaic ideas that society no longer needs and will eventually shed.

[hifiguy]

35. That is incredibly disturbing on so many levels.

The subtext is so creepy and incestuous that it makes my skin crawl. Fundamentalist religion of all kinds should be wiped from the planet.

[Wind Dancer]

73. +1000

[Iris]

37. 23 and still helping witih dad's business?

And that's a good use of her "youth"? What about the babymaking? What's a good age for a trained wife to get married? It must be younger than 23.

"I don't know what makes this any different than any other nutcase cult."
You said it!

[Marrah_G]

38. This makes me sick

[FarCenter]

40. It's a common religous attitude -- see Taliban, Salafists, polygamist Mormons, Amish, Hasidics, etc.

[annabanana]

48. yup. . Fundamentalism. A danger abroad, a danger at home. . . .n/t

[MineralMan]

41. This is the Right Winger's Vision of American Society.

If that isn't enough to scare people into supporting Democrats for office, I don't know what is. These right-wing fundamentalists want to run the United States, and they have a plan to do it.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[lapislzi]

46. Once again. "The Handmaid's Tale" is NOT an instruction manual.

I think I saw it in the "nonfiction" section of a Christian bookstore once...

I guess my name now is Ofjames.

[annabanana]

47. Radical Religious Fundamentalism is a CANCER..

It afflicts all faiths and is a danger to the world.

[sarcasmo]

50. +1

[hifiguy]

52. It is the single greatest threat to the survival

of the human species.

[Initech]

57. Amen to that!

[sarcasmo]

49. Sounds like crazy Muslim shit, what's next, women wearing a veil?

[Karia]

54. Great website by women who have escaped

No Longer Quivering: http://nolongerquivering.com/

[RainDog]

76. Thanks for the link! n/t

[hamsterjill]

55. Reconnected with Old High School Friend

I just reconnected with an old high school friend on Facebook, and in the course of things, checked out the Facebook page of one of her adult daughters. I was shocked to find that the daughter had written an entire essay on "being submissive".

I fear there are more of these people, particularly women, than we know about who actually support this kind of foolishness.

For myself and MY daughter...

I am WOMAN, hear ME roar!

[Initech]

56. This makes *ME* want to vomit!! My god these people are no better than the Taliban.

[newspeak]

59. please just move to SA!!!

I'd say Iran, but they do allow their women to vote, drive and work; also to have an education.

My ancestors came over after the mayflower. However, my ancestors were not part of the puritan, quaker despising group. They came over for business. So, not all who came here followed perverted, puritanical teachings.

Yes, I realize there are women who want to be taken care of, have little outside responsibility. Want to be treated like a child or chattel; but, that is not all women. Some of us actually enjoy being independent, think we're more than a baby making machine.

This guy fits like a glove for the "Handmaid's Tale." Very disturbing.

[Javaman]

60. A Handmaids Tale. nt

[piratefish08]

61. fundamentalists of ANY religion are a fucking cancer on the earth.

[4_TN_TITANS]

63. Shucks... too late for me to join this movement.

My liberal teenage daughters would gladly tell me to go fuck myself if I tried this shit on them at this stage of the game.

Guess I'll have to settle for very intelligent, self-sufficient, and independent daughters that are no man's bitches.

[HangOnKids]

64. You Might Want To Edit The Last Word

Not cool. You will get alerted if you don't. Just sayin'.

[alarimer]

66. I LOATHE these people.

They are hateful and are doing active harm to their children. We know what kind of damage they are doing or will do to this country.

[RainDog]

77. me too n/t

[Wind Dancer]

74. K & R!

This is disturbing on so many levels.

[baldguy]

78. But there's no GOP War on Women.