There is zero that the DOJ can do to right the injustice in Ferguson

[MannyGoldstein]

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 02:00 PM - Edit history (2)

Look, people, these things happen. We have federal civil rights laws on the books, but they can't really be used.

The protesters need to understand this, as do those on the Left. And they must understand that taking advantage of the situation to steal stuff will be met with justifiable force by brave police officers who risk their lives every day. Can you imagine, just hassling someone for walking in the street could lead to taunting! That just ain't right.

Regards,

TWM

Note: this post is sarcasm. More accurately, it's parody - it's what I expect the Third Way's actual response will be to the situation, i.e., to do nothing, then bemaon their inability to do anything. They've already waned the protesters and praised the police.

[MineralMan]

1. Nobody is saying that here, Manny.

Try writing what you really think, instead of pretending to be someone else. You most often get it wrong when you pretend to be someone you're not. This is not a good day for satirical shit-stirring, I think.

[Fumesucker]

13. It's not commonly known but Babe Ruth was a strikeout king as well as a homerun king..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robasghar/2014/06/17/permission-to-fail-leadership-lessons-from-babe-ruths-bat/

I hit big or I miss big. I like to live as big as I can. –Babe Ruth

A bat that the legendary George Herman “Babe” Ruth swung nearly a century ago went on the online auction block yesterday, where the winning bid is expected to be in the neighborhood of $500,000.

So how did a hunk of wood come to be valued at a half-million dollars? We need to take a look at how Ruth shook up a tradition-bound game.

“Every strike brings me closer to the next home run,” Ruth once quipped. But few people today appreciate how radical that notion seemed in its day—how reckless, how irresponsible, how counter-productive.

“A strikeout heretofore had been something of a disgrace,” biographer Robert Creamer wrote. Ruth willed his way past the disgrace.

Manny hits some home runs, some strikeouts are also to be expected.

[MineralMan]

14. The persona known as MannyGoldstein is not Babe Ruth.

Your comparison doesn't make sense, really. As the umpire said, "I call 'em like I see 'em."

[Fumesucker]

17. I give you credit for being smarter than that

Manny is someone who has a strong effect on the forum, good, bad or ugly. Sometimes he will achieve his aims, ie a home run strong positive effect and sometimes he will strike out. Me, most of the time I bunt and I try to swing for the stands only when I get one right in the middle of the strike zone which does not happen all that often.

You also try to have an effect here, as does everyone who posts. We all want our words our mind children noticed, commented on, some of us are more effective at that than others.

On the other hand I've sometimes found that the most powerful posts will sink because they leave nothing to add, I've seen it happen here on DU before, lots of recs and very few or even no substantive replies.

There's a lot of things I could say here that I don't because I don't feel like engaging in the inevitable ensuing argument that will as you so delicately put it, stir the shit.

You can go back and look if you wish, by no means do I rec every Manny thread, I think he strikes out pretty often but when he connects solidly on a subject it's powerful. Which of course is why he draws so much attention, good, bad and ugly.

[MineralMan]

20. I'm not really concerned about Manny's impact on DU.

Truly. I reject attempts at satire in situations like this one, however. Satire is a useful thing, and I engage in it from time to time, myself. The current situation is not an appropriate one for satire, particularly for satire directed at DUers. Manny's "Third-Way Manny" persona is almost exclusively used to point a finger at DUers who happen to disagree with Manny's position. In this case, no such DUers exist who are saying anything like Manny's attempt at satire.

I can only believe that Manny doesn't know that. Otherwise, why post the OP of this thread?

[Fumesucker]

26. If you didn't care you wouldn't have told him how to post

QED

[MineralMan]

31. I didn't say I didn't care. I said I'm not concerned.

I'm a DUer, too. I will post in any thread I wish, and I will write as I wish. You appear to be telling me what to post and not post, yourself. Do you not see the irony?

Anyone can post on DU. When they do, others will reply. That's what DU is for.

[Fumesucker]

34. I've seen you post things semantically equivalent to that before

Which is what prompted my comment to start with.

[MineralMan]

40. You will reply as you see fit.

We all will. And there it is.

[Fumesucker]

45. Some of us strive for a foolish consistency

[Scuba]

83. You are especially full of fail today. I'll take 10 of Manny's bombs over your best thread.

[MineralMan]

84. Well, thanks for dropping by and letting me know how you feel.

It makes me feel, you know, special.

[marble falls]

89. A lot of us agree with fumesucker. Manny's few failures are better than a most other posts here....

the 3rd wayers will make polite 1950's Republicans out of us if we don't watch out.

[msanthrope]

36. I find it interesting that the strikeouts have entailed racial insensitivity. nt

[Fumesucker]

47. Indeed, it's a subject best avoided when your method is snark

[msanthrope]

55. Absolutely. I note that repeated strikeouts on this issue have not resulted in

a learning experience for the OP, apparently.

Nor has it been clearly delineated as to what we are allowed to say to the purported fictional character of Third Way Manny. I have three hides for my posts to him--it begs the question what is the point of using snark when one is so thin-skinned about commentary to your fictional persona?

After so many strikeouts on the issue of race, is it not in this community's best interest to re-examine the role of these types of OPs? Particularly when they are concomitant issues of alerting on the posters who critique them (as you can read in this thread?)

[yeoman6987]

2. The DOJ investigated Zimmerman and Wilson

And so far brought no charges. I do find that strange. I would think the DOJ would have wanted to get charges big time. I am missing something.

[hack89]

46. The Feds can't manufacturer charges

they have to be strong enough to stand up in court. Federal civil rights charges are very hard to prove because you have to prove that the crime was motivated purely by racial animus.

[Kingofalldems]

48. Why would the DOJ want to bring charges?

Oh wait, I get it. Holder is there and the right claims he is anti-white. Am I missing something?

[pnwmom]

79. The DOJ would normally let the local authorities proceed first. It's not unusual

that they've waited, and Holder has announced that they're still working on it.

And the Zimmerman case didn't involve a civil rights violation by a police officer. Zimmerman wasn't with the police.

[KittyWampus]

3. It disgusts me that some DU'ers would use this tragedy to shit-stir for no other purpose

than to get kicks and recs.

I haven't posted here in quite a while.

But the ugliness of using a young man's tragic death for one's own ego gratification is repulsive and that needs commenting.

[FSogol]

5. Agreed, but par for the course for some.

[MineralMan]

6. It's my opinion that today is probably a bad day to play

around with satirical postings. They're likely to backfire, in my opinion. Today is a day to say what one really thinks about this, not to try to play people off against each other.

Personally, I'm depressed about this whole thing today, and probably won't actually comment much.

[KittyWampus]

8. well, the OP'er expressed their feelings on this exact topic in another thread already-

So one wonders why the need for a second one just as insensitive and ugly as the first.

You can scroll down the sheshe's post to see how I feel about the previous OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5864647

[SidDithers]

9. Apparently, one dumbass thread wasn't good enough...

Maybe well get another post about gefilte fish, 'cause TWM's always been so good about racial issues.

Sid

[Bobbie Jo]

22. Doubling down on the oblivious. nt

[LawDeeDah]

29. Sadly agree. It's so classless, ....

and yet some will find it clever, or something, using Brown's dead body as a bludgeon.

[Kurska]

4. The standard is even tougher at the federal level

With an added component of having to prove racial animus was one of the motivating factors.

I remember when people said the exact same thing about the Zimmerman case. It isn't going to happen.

[msanthrope]

7. Jeebus Manny.....must you use Michael Brown in this manner? nt

[SidDithers]

10. You might have missed this gem from yesterday...

mere hours after the verdict was made public.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025863782

Sid

[msanthrope]

16. You know, I refrained from reading that thread because I have three hides against Third-Way Manny.

Those are the only three hides I have.

Someone's got a thin skin.

[bettyellen]

24. Hidden by me, as our point's been proven.

Last edited Wed Nov 26, 2014, 12:14 PM - Edit history (2)

[bettyellen]

35. Hidden prior to the 1 AM alert fest.

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

[bettyellen]

58. hidden!

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 05:07 PM - Edit history (1)

[msanthrope]

59. Make sure you alert on the alerts. I think if you were alerted on by a fellow host, that host needs

to be gone.

[bettyellen]

60. Hidden, preemptive measure.

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 05:09 PM - Edit history (1)

[greatauntoftriplets]

69. I was both a host and on MIRT at that time.

My jaw dropped more than once.

[greatauntoftriplets]

73. Uh huh.

At that time, I was a LBN host. Still prefer to host that forum vs. GD.

[msanthrope]

74. Definitely. nt

[bettyellen]

70. hidden also!

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

[msanthrope]

75. Just like no one should be offended by this "parody," right? nt

[MineralMan]

76. I got a couple of hides, too, after poking at that poster.

First ones in a very, very long time. I replaced everyone on my jury blacklist after that. Haven't had a hidden post since I did that. Odd how that works.

[msanthrope]

77. I definitely need to update. Thanks for the reminder! nt

[Spazito]

11. The callousness displayed by this OP and the one posted last night...

is both breathtaking and nauseating.

[frazzled]

12. This is not making a point and not appropriate

You think you are being all Stephen Colbert or something. Drop the persona. It's a giant epic FAIL, both on the level of attempted satire and for trying to twist this tragic event to your own purposes.

[GeorgeGist]

15. Reefer madness!

[bemildred]

18. I am sure Snowden and Assange will be glad to hear of the sudden impotence of the US DOJ. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

19. I'd just like to say that this is disgusting.

nt

[lonestarnot]

21. Recommended so curiosity may come to view this ignorance.

[bettyellen]

23. Tone deaf shit stirring. What else would we expect though?

[MannyGoldstein]

87. Careful - you're missing a hyphen or two, and a comma.

If you feel compelled to excoriate me, at least do it using grammar that's befitting a Democrat.

Thanks!

[Fumesucker]

30. Welcome to DU

What do you think of the appearance of manipulation of the Grand Jury by the prosecutor in order to not indict?

[bettyellen]

38. read all about it, and get back to us. there is plenty out there already

about the lack of desire to prosecute this case.

[bettyellen]

52. so- you have read plenty- but just not ANYTHING about how biased those leading the GJ were, HA HA HA

Got your number.

[msanthrope]

64. Um, no. The prosecutor could have laid charges. He didn't. nt

[Fumesucker]

42. The sheer statistical unlikihood for one thing

Except of course when the accused is a police officer.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

Former New York state Chief Judge Sol Wachtler famously remarked that a prosecutor could persuade a grand jury to “indict a ham sandwich.” The data suggests he was barely exaggerating: According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

Wilson’s case was heard in state court, not federal, so the numbers aren’t directly comparable. Unlike in federal court, most states, including Missouri, allow prosecutors to bring charges via a preliminary hearing in front of a judge instead of through a grand jury indictment. That means many routine cases never go before a grand jury. Still, legal experts agree that, at any level, it is extremely rare for prosecutors to fail to win an indictment.

“If the prosecutor wants an indictment and doesn’t get one, something has gone horribly wrong,” said Andrew D. Leipold, a University of Illinois law professor who has written critically about grand juries. “It just doesn’t happen.”

[Spazito]

32. "We live in sad times where blood lust trumps justice"...

Yes, wilson's blood lust, his murder of Michael Brown, trumped justice. Race relations have been "set back" because of the multiple murders of young black men by white police officers who are allowed to do so with impunity.

[justiceischeap]

37. Yahoo! A business leader has spoken

I don't really know what that has to do with the situation at hand but congrats, you're a job creator!

1. Michael Brown allegedly committed strong arm robbery--there was never a trial, so he was never convicted of anything. This actually does matter. What also matters is that the store DIDN'T call the police but a customer. This matters too. Mostly what matters is what I can infer from you listing the strong arm robbery first, that you think Michael Brown deserved to be shot and killed while unarmed.
2. RE: Brown being shot in the back. There were shots that were fired that actually didn't hit Brown but did enter a woman's home. How do we know that shot wasn't intended for Brown's back? Have we heard from any experts about the trajectory of that shot or any of the shots for that matter? No, we haven't.
3. Shame on people demanding justice, how dare they!
4. Yes because those businesses are more important than an 18 year olds life or the continuous mistreatment of people who aren't business leaders.

Yes, race relations have been set back in this country but it certainly wasn't because of Ferguson, Missouri. Does Kenya sound familiar to you? How about demands for birth certificates? Or any other argument to invalidate our first black President and people not speaking out against those arguments.

I am convinced the only thing that would placate the protestors is just the appearance of fairness. That's right, maybe if that community felt as though they were treated fairly that just might satisfy them but when "business leaders" demands are more important than justice or equality, those protestors have rightful grievances.

[tosh]

44. K&R for post #37.

Very well said.

Thank you!

[JEB]

49. Good post.

[justiceischeap]

54. Of course you have to disagree

I saw that coming like the grand jury decision not to indict.

Yes, let's talk about escalation of force. There are only three people who witnessed what happened at that SUV and one of them is dead, the other is the actor in that death and the third? Dorian Johnson? Who tells a completely different tale than Ofc. Wilson. Where does he stand in the grand scheme of things? Was his testimony not believable? Why was his testimony not believed but Wilson's was?

I made poor choices as a kid, didn't die for them, never had to fear dying for those poor choices. However, it still goes back to there are only 3 people that knows what actually happened at that SUV door and one of them is dead.

This isn't about blood lust, this is about justice long over due.

For example, a woman just went to jail in Florida for firing a gun in the air to scare off her abusive ex who was breaking a restraining order--the state with stand your ground laws. She didn't even shoot a man, yet she got sent to jail. She happens to be black. So, this is what the black community learns from this... if you look white, like George Zimmerman, you can kill an unarmed black teen-ager, 'cause, you know, you're standing your ground. If you're a black woman who fires a gun into the air, you're threatened with 15 years in prison.

Frankly, I'm surprised the black community has taken this long to tear the house down.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. Well it's not my town or company

So I don't care.

You have to understand - everyone is just out for themselves.

[JEB]

53. Business needs to do more than profit off a community.

Evidently they didn't do enough. Fucking Dollar Tree needs to go back to china and dump their crap.

[uppityperson]

62. Uh. huh. "the situation was turned into a racial issue by those with an agenda"? Indeed, like Darren

Wilson. Glad that you see that because I was wondering where you were going with this.

[Kingofalldems]

78. Business leader eh?

Who do you lead? Were you elected? Dying to know.

[geek tragedy]

27. This tragedy attracts all kinds of bottom feeders. nt

[cali]

39. I've long found your schtick tiresome, unoriginal, hammer like and more

you seem to think it's cute and effective and too many people here egg you on.

[msanthrope]

56. Well, wait--there's another issue that should be addressed. The shtick is allowed, but

quote Caddyshack to the schtick-maker, and you will get a hide. It's one thing to post the shtick---it's quite another to be so thin-skinned about it.

[Octafish]

41. If they did, the nation's Police Forces might not follow orders if needed in the future.

Who knows when DoJ will need every gun at its command.

[TeeYiYi]

63. Manny, is this sarcasm? Jury results...

On Tue Nov 25, 2014, 11:39 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

There is zero that the DOJ can do to right the injustice in Ferguson
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025867266

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is tone-deaf racial shit-stirring, using the body of Michael Brown to make an attempt to divide DUers. This particular OP has a long history of racial posts, as referenced in the thread. Also noteworthy....until this OP and the other OP last night, Manny, or Third-Way Manny could not be bothered to post an OP in support of Michael Brown.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Nov 25, 2014, 11:46 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That's Manny in his Third Way Manny persona; he's being facetious. Next time, TWM, don't forget the sarcasm tag or else I will vote to hide it.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I disagree with the alerter. I don't think this is 'tone deaf shit-stirring'.

And I don't think we can make Manny (or anyone) support things that they may or may not support just because it appears to be the prevailing opinion.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Sorry little Turd Wayer- You picked the wrong day to put up a post praising police brutality.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Puts Manny in a new light. No more Manny for me, after today. I don't like what he's saying but I'll defend his right to say it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: i don't like what this poster is writing and find it to be very insensitive. But i don't believe in hiding differing opinions.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I was juror #5. Didn't realize it might be sarcasm... Hope that it was.

TYY

[MannyGoldstein]

65. Yes, sarcasm

Sorry that it wasn't obvious.

[TeeYiYi]

72. Glad to hear it.

I didn't get much sleep last night, watching Ferguson burn, listening to the St. Louis Police Scanners and witnessing a fucked up response by militarized cops to protesters, while monitoring live streams and my twitter feed. It was an historic night.

I'm usually a little more in tune with sarcasm. Regardless, I'll always defend your right to free speech.

Thanks, Manny.

TYY

[MannyGoldstein]

85. I appreciate your posting the results

I should have been more clear - I'm feeling spare of words today, yesterday's events have me feeling down.

[TeeYiYi]

86. True that...

re: "...yesterday's events have me feeling down."

TYY

[KittyWampus]

82. Your sarcasm is, in fact, quite obvious. It's just the disgusting shit-stirring aspect

that we object to.

[boston bean]

91. agreed, just making shit up

for what??

and off the back of a dead 18 year old who was murdered by a racist cop, and no justice within the racist state/city institutions.

[bigdarryl]

67. I'm not that confident in Obama's Justice Department bringing charges to Darren Wilson

They didn't bring charges to Zimmerman which was clearly a civil rights violation on Martin.I think one of the biggest mistakes Obama did when getting elected was not replacing the Bush people who are still there in the Department.Holder in the Attorney General but he doesn't personally investigate the cases the people under him do and a lot of those people are left overs from the Bush Administration

[pnwmom]

81. The Zimmerman case was different.

This case involves a civil rights violation by a police officer.

Zimmerman's did not.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

80. That's only because they're busy pursuing bankers, war criminals, and torturers.....oh, nevermind.

[ucrdem]

88. The DOJ has two open investigations: one of Wilson, the other of police treatment of protesters

The Department of Justice has two open investigations: one of Wilson and the other of the police treatment of Ferguson protesters.

By Alessandria Masi on November 24 2014

There are currently two open Department of Justice investigations related to Brown’s death: One probe into Wilson and the other into the Ferguson Police Department’s practices, according to McClatchy. The first could find Wilson guilty of violating Brown’s civil rights. The DOJ must prove “without a reasonable doubt” that Wilson knowingly and intentionally “deprived” Brown of “a right or privilege protected by the Constitution of laws of the United States,” according to federal law via McClatchy. However, experts don’t believe this is a likely outcome.

“Criminal enforcement of constitutional rights is not something that is easily pursued, Samuel Bagenstos, a University of Michigan law professor, recently told the Associated Press. It really requires building a case very carefully, very painstakingly.”

The DOJ and several civil rights organizations are investigating a possible case against the Ferguson Police Department for mistreatment of protesters who have been almost daily fixtures on Ferguson's streets since August. The DOJ is also investigating the department's practices and relationship with constituents prior to Brown’s death. When protests began, some police officers were seen wearing “I am Darren Wilson” bracelets.

“The expressive accessory itself is exacerbating an already tense atmosphere between law enforcement and residents in Ferguson,” according to a letter from the DOJ to the Ferguson chief of police. “These bracelets reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists.”

more: http://www.ibtimes.com/ferguson-indictment-officer-darren-wilson-ferguson-police-department-could-still-face-1728858

[BootinUp]

90. Parody of freepers maybe nt