The Teddy Bear clutching of some of my fellow Democrats fascinates me to no end.

[trumad]

Quick note: I'm using a Teddy Bear rather than the shiny little white balls so the alert buttons stay quiet.

I simply don't understand how some Dems do not want to fight fire with fire.

It's the "we can't stoop to their level" attitude that bewilders me.

Make no mistake about this upcoming campaign. The Republicans will run a campaign of falsehoods that will go down in history as the most deceptive ever.

It's already starting.

Mitt is simply turning his negatives around and applying them to Obama. They know that if you tell a lie over and over, many in Moran America will believe it.

AND---the with MSM wanting a close race, they will be sure to repeat the lies without rebuttal.

I'm in the camp that we hit this phony Son of a Bitch as hard as we can until Nov.

I know we hear every election is the most important ever.

I truly feel that this one is.... If the Republicans win ---and this includes the House and Senate, we're fucked.

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Harry S. Truman

[ananda]

1. Dealing with sociopaths is difficult...

... for people who haven't lost their humanity.

[lunatica]

2. Should we rig the elections too so we can steal them?

Why fucking bother to even vote then?

[trumad]

3. If they do it---we need to do it....

whatever it takes.

This is war.

[lunatica]

29. Then why bother to call ourselves a Democracy

Since stealing the elections will be how we function?

What, pray, will we gain? Maybe we can just declare ourselves a Dictatorship once we get our man/woman into office. After all the entire exercise is to win at any cost.

[roody]

37. I know that I do not live in a 'Democracy.'

[kentuck]

4. I agree, Trumad...

There is an old saying: All is fair in love, war, and politics. The Repubs take that seriously. Democrats tend to fight with one hand tied behind their back.

[hobbit709]

5. and one foot in a bucket.

The only way to stop a bully is throw it right back in his face.

[kentuck]

6. And they are bullies.

You are correct.

[trumad]

7. The Republicans don't care how they win...

Voter suppression---vote machine fraud.... Gerrymandering---deceptive ads, and on and on.

They simply do not care.

This is not a fair fight anymore and if we keep acting like it is---we'll get steamrolled.

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. +1000. nt

[kentuck]

10. The sad truth is they don't really care about this country...

They would like to tear down the entire government.

[H2O Man]

28. I do, too.

I think back to my approach to the sport of boxing. If a guy purposely fouled me, and the referee didn't do anything about it, I did. I can honestly say that I never "fought dirty" first. Just didn't go there. But if my opponent did, I opened up my bag of dirty tricks -- and my response was not limited to a "one-for-one" approach.

You can tell an accidental foul from an intentional one. Hit me low on purpose? Oh, dear! Was that my thumb in your eye? And when you reacted to the loss of vision, did my low blow take your breath away? How did my elbow feel as it went across your brow?

My brothers took the same approach. And we taught all of our fighters the exact same thing. Fight fair. Don't allow yourself to be the victim of dirty tactics. Rumble, Young Man, rumble!

[siligut]

8. We have to recognize their tricks and deceptions

You have already pointed out that the Mitt campaign takes Mitt's failings and tries to make them into Obama's, this is standard for these psychopaths and sometimes, I think they actually believe it themselves. Every asshole I have ever met had the attitude that the other guys were worse, so they had to up their assholishness to compete.


Our job is to spread the truth. in this case that is all we need. Mitt is so unfit to run this country, it boggles the mind as to how we ever got into this position.

[trumad]

11. Well some here think we should not hit on the silly things...

like the Dog story or Mitt's family history of Polygamy.

I say nonsense... we hit him with everything and we keep hitting him.

[kentuck]

13. In politics, do unto others as they would do to you.

The Golden Rule of Politics.

[siligut]

42. It all makes up the man

And, I agree, his religion should not be off limits either, he was raised in it and was/is very active in it.

[global1]

19. The Problem Is Mitt Will Not Be Running The Country.....

all he wants is the title. He like Bush will have then showed up his father. I'm convinced that Mitt has his father issues too - just like Dubya. It would be interesting to delve into Mitt's childhood and learn about how his father treated him.

The people that will be running the country if Mitt wins are the same ones that pulled the strings for Dubya. As Dubya was a puppet so will be Mitt.

The Repugs can't put a person in the presidency that thinks for his or her self. Take a look at the candidates that were their clown show during the primaries.

Mitt outclowned the clowns. That why he is the presumed nominee.

Mad men - I'm telling you - Mad men will be running this country if Mitt wins. And I don't mean "mad" as "angry". I mean "Mad" as "deranged and dangerous".

[Proud Liberal Dem]

12. I think that President Obama

is doing a pretty good job hitting back at R.MONEY but we need more Democratic surrogates out there fighting back against the avalanche of lies and even if they can't get onto the cable news shows, they still need to be out there among the public giving a voice to our side IMHO.

[trumad]

14. It is tricky ....

The media hurdle makes it harder---

[HughBeaumont]

15. NO quarter will be given to the parasite corporatist and his lie-filled campaign.

First thing to hit him hard on: His continued lie that Obama has lost more jobs than any president in the last 50 years.

FALSE, You Oily Motherfucker!!

The first six months of his term, where most of the job losses occurred, do not count in this stat since not a DAMNED ONE of his economic policies went into effect until after that fact. All of those job losses during the first year are completely on the shoulders of the craptastic Bewsh Administration's economic policies. This is a dishonest false trail that a five year old could cut through.

How the Fourth Estate continually allows RMoney to get away with this lie over and over again doesn't surprise me, since they're fucking purchased and they hate Democrats. Why progressives are not showing up at his rallies calling him on his bull paddies DOES surprise me. Wherever he shows up, WE need to show up and call him on his lies.

[trumad]

18. This is a concerted strategy that will continue until the election.

Again---they know that a great deal of Moran America will by the lie because they heard it on TV.

[DMNinFL]

21. What would that be called?????

Would that be "intestinal fortitude"????
Would that be called a "spine"?????

Democrats with a spine??????? What a concept!!

Gotta get one, somehow!

[bowens43]

16. Agreed....reminds of a quote from the movie MIssissippi Burning...

Anderson: Don't put me on your perch, Mr. Ward.

Ward: Don't drag me into your gutter, Mr. Anderson!

Anderson: These people are crawling out of the SEWER, MR. WARD! Maybe the gutter's where we outta be!

We need to use every tool available to crush these idiots.........

[MannyGoldstein]

17. I think massive apologizing is the way forward

We were right to hang Hillary Rosen out to dry when she pointed out that the Romneys have virtually zero in common with the average American.

Americans thirst for politeness, moderation, and caving.

[rhett o rick]

20. If we lie like they do, we turn in to them. Take the battle of "truth" to them.

I agree we need to take the fight to them, but we need to keep the high ground. That's what makes us, us.

[trumad]

23. We don't the higher ground...

they do.... and they have the tools to help them keep the high ground---their biggest cannon being the media.

If we have to be, lie, cheat and steal to destroy these fuckers, that's what we do.

[pscot]

27. If we stand up for the truth we don't need to lie

But when Hilary Rosen told the truth their media dubbed it a scandal and Democrats let them get away with it. The Party, the Whitehouse and all of us should have had her back on that one.

[rhett o rick]

47. The fight is to maintain principles. If you give up those principles to fight, you've lost.

In my book, those that fight for truth have the higher ground.

[Doctor_J]

71. Yeah, how's that working?

Check the number of congressional seats we had in 1990 vs. what we have today, and tell me how great the "high ground" is working.

[rhett o rick]

72. So what do you advocate? nm

[zipplewrath]

22. Water

When temped to "fight fire with fire", do remember that the fire department tends to use water. I don't think one has to don kid gloves, but I don't think it is necessary to copy your opponents tactics either. And in many cases, considering that they are probably appealing to different people than you are, it may not be effective.

[GoCubsGo]

32. Yep, and fighting fire with fire is really hard to do when...

...the ones who lit the fire in the first place own all of the gasoline used to set the fires. Or, in the case of the right, they own pretty much all of the media. Notice who is STILL harping on Anne Romney's stupid Twitter on Hillary Rosen, while barely mentioning the shit Ted Nugent has been spewing. See also the latest survey of Sunday talk shows, which shows the 70% of their guests are republicans. If the Democrats "fight fire with fire", the republican-run MSM will just find a way to turn that against them. All we'll hear is, "Look how hateful and nasty Democrats are!" I think there ARE appropriate times for using the republicans' own tactics against them, but I don't think it's the only way to fight back.

[Occulus]

44. But Republicans are like a wildfire

and firefighters do indeed use fire to fight fire in such cases.

[MrYikes]

24. Jeb is our real threat. nt

.

[FSogol]

25. We need to start kicking this meme: "Why isn't the press telling us every time Romney tells a lie?"

Romney is incapable of telling the truth. This should be admitted every time a journalist discusses Romney.

[KurtNYC]

33. Isn't that a version of blaming the messenger?

If Romney lies I blame Romney.

Btw, Here is what happens when you tell Willard Romney that he IS tied to Washington and to lobbyists and asking him to quit lying:

[FSogol]

45. More of "expecting more out of our 'liberal' media" than blaming

the messenger.

[KurtNYC]

65. there is no liberal media

and I think we do better when we stop complaining about the game and just play it.

Romney is a ridiculous liar when he says that he has not been to Washington and that he is not in bed with lobbyists.

[rhett o rick]

49. If the "messanger" is enabling the lies, then they need blaming. nm

[DCKit]

26. Agreed. However, it bothers me lots when I see lies or hyperbole posted to DU.

We are better than that... better than they are.

Nearly every Republican (especially those competing for the nomination and a few, select members of Congress) has provided more than enough negative truths for us to use as ammunition. We simply have to keep repeating these truths loudly, and often. We also need a bigger soapbox, and the MSM isn't going to provide it. Corporate America is securely in the bag for the interests of Corporate America.

The pollsters have Mitt within six points of Obama - really hard to believe with the gender gap, the gay gap, the age gap (both older and younger) or the majority/minority gap, but close enough to steal if enough of us fall for it (again). We need to register every Dem to vote, and make damn sure they can get to the polls, despite the multitude of dirty tricks the Republicans are going to use to prevent people from voting. We also need to ensure that the exit polls are unimpeachable, and kept as current as possible on election day.

That said, not all Republicans have completely lost their minds and they present an opportunity for us. We need to educate them to help prevent them from voting against their own interests.

What we don't have to do is resort to lies. They've given us all we need.

[ieoeja]

46. A lie, once accepted as such, destroys credibility.

One lie is enough to get a hundred truths ignored. Which is reason #2 why we should not be lying.

Reason #1: we don't need to. The truth benefits us. They *have* to lie.

[backscatter712]

30. A-fucking-men! We need to use Cobra Kai tactics on the Republicans.

Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it?
No, Sensei!
Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it?
No, Sensei!
Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it?
No, Sensei!
Prepare! What do we study here?
The way of the fist, sir!
And what is that way?
Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, sir!
I can't hear you!
Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, sir!

We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition. A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy.

[KurtNYC]

31. In my experience many are rawly emotional and you can't even begin to discuss

strategy, issue framing, picking the narrative or segmentation with them because they are perpetually outraged by the latest lie told on cable news.

Romney has a terrible recent history -- Bain Capital, etc. In this economy the political landmines are already laid between Romney and the White House. The truth about Romney is bad enough but we have to tell it.

IMHO we should refuse to go on defense in this election. Romney has nothing on Obama. We should live by the words of President Clinton when he said:

"Every time they attack you it gives you a chance to get your message out."

Let's not run down the clock repeating and refuting their lies but rather keep up a spirited attack that simultaneously champions our values. Clinton would famously answer attacks like this "That's not true but I'll tell you what is..." or "If you had a record like my opponent you wouldn't want to talk about issues like ______ either..."

I also think humor will continue to work against Romney because he is such phony suit.

[Odin2005]

34. We NEED to play dirty in order to beat these SOBs.

We need to CRUSH them by any means possible.

[Javaman]

35. Hey!

I like the shiny little white balls...

Wait...we're talking about pearls, right?

[bullwinkle428]

36. "Staying above the fray and ignoring them" worked out really well for John Kerry in 2004

regarding the Swiftboat Liars!

K&R.

[butterfly77]

38. Exactly..

Plus the fact that we have many republiCONS in Democrat clothing like":Kent Conrad,Claire McCaskill,Testor,the senator from Pennsylvania among others.

[Waiting For Everyman]

39. Agree, and we may as well get ready for it now...

Dems will have to find a way to go into the subject of Romney's religion. I'm just starting to read up on it, but his beliefs scare me at least as much as Palin's in 2008, if not more. If that doesn't get brought to the attention of the voting public, it would be a serious lapse of our responsibility to inform them of a major danger lurking behind this seemingly "nice" man.

And when the fundamentalists find out about the specifics of what he believes and who he is in his religion, their heads are going to explode! And that could dramatically shift this election, and in my view it should. No way that guy should be President! Even if he were a Dem, I'd say that.

I know Dems don't like to wade into the territory of a candidate's religion and I've seen some have already "pledged" informally not to, but in this case it's highly relevant and necessary. The internet did a lot of the exposition on Palin's dangerous beliefs in '08, and exactly because it is distasteful and dicey for a candidate to do, it will probably fall to us to do the same again.

Did you know that for more than 100 years the Mormon church has taken it as an article of faith that it is its destiny to take over the government of the United States? They are ready for it. And we are not ready - because very few among the general public know the details of their beliefs.

It is fine for Romney to believe what he wants (or for anyone else to do so as well) but it is not ok for him to hold that agenda in the highest office in this land. Period. Deal breaker. And if any don't think it matters, take a look at the SCOTUS, just for one small example among many that we all know too well. The days are over when religion was kept separate from political office by Repubs.

Romney was required to swear blood oaths to certain tenets of his religion. A person can say, "oh well that doesn't mean anything". Well if that's so, then what can we expect his oath of office to mean when he's sworn in as POTUS?

Oh hell no. I'm not going to be cool with that. I'm going to inform myself more, and then I'm going to inform anyone that I can reach.

I don't know how this is being "sold" to Christians to make it ok with them, but I do know that it would take a pack of the most outrageous lies to make this even slightly acceptable to them. I'm a Christian who doesn't believe in church, I do my own thing on my own, so I don't know the answer to that question, but I'm going the "eheck in" with some churches and find out what's shakin' on this.

[AlbertCat]

40. Machiavellian tactics don't work in the long run.

There's no need for us to do anything but tell... YELL the truth.

We need to instantly call liars liars and not apologize every time some RW twerp pretends his feelings are hurt. "My distinguished colleague is a f-ing LIAR... here are the facts...."

But mainly we need to get the MSM to stop carrying water for the conservatives.

It must be remembered that Bush DID NOT ACTUALLY WIN either election. The RW did not and does not have a majority. They MUST cheat to win. We don't have to.

[The Magistrate]

41. Hear Hear, Sir

[JayhawkSD]

43. Did the free world respond to Hitler...

...by forming its own Holocaust? Did it capture Germans in battle and kill them? Did it destroy towns and murder all of the citizens for "aiding the enemy" in captured territories?

Of course not. You don't defeat evil by becoming evil, and the suggestion that we should do so is absurd.

I will say what I said in response to the loss of civil liberties after 9/11, to the Patriot Act, and spying on citizens, "If this is what is necessary to keep me safe, then let me die."

[fascisthunter]

48. Did you Really Need to go to such an Extreme to prove the OP wrong

did the OP state anything you just did... NO. We know this poster, and this poster would never suggest what you just implied. Keep it real, ok?

[nxylas]

53. The poster does seem to suggest that rigging elections etc. is OK when "we" do it

If Democrats have to resort to such tactics, then what do they gain except power? I certainly agree that Republican voter suppression tactics need to be agressively countered, but with voter registration drives and the like, not by replacing Republican election theft with Democratic election theft.

[trumad]

50. Did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?

Sorry...couldn't resist.

[Ikonoklast]

51. The answer to that is "Yes".

The Soviet Army did all of that, our allies, in our name.

We shot surrendering Japanese by the hundreds, and no one saw a thing.

The Russians gave back exactly what the Germans dealt them.

[Larry Ogg]

56. Hitler lost the battle, but he didn't loose the war...

And the war will continue until such a time, that the people of conscience figure out exactly, the cause of war.

Until that time comes, they will try to fix what they don't understand, fighting over and defending what they believe is the lesser evil. Never knowing that they are being put one against the other, and in the end they will even fight over which is best; to be hung by a blue rope, or to be hung by a red rope.

[longship]

52. I agree with OP, the stakes are too damned high!

nt

[stupidicus]

54. It has long disgusted me

The best example of this failure can be found if one compares and contrasts the diff between the dem and repub conventioon efforts in 2004. Dem highborows -- including BHO as the keynote speaker -- too the high road and left Bush pretty much unscathed, while the lowbrow repubs wagged their purple fingers when they weren't poking them in the eye of Kerry and the dem party.

I've long taken the "take no prisoners" approach to dealing with lying rightwingers and their minions in their service, and have recieved a lot of attempted grief from lefties that think being tolerant of their endless dishonesty is the best path, based on some notion that as far as I can tell, that their complete abandonment of the 9th commandment says nothing about their character or that of the efforts a lack of it indicate they are in pursuit of. Oh, and of course, the demands of tolerance trump the incivility of calling lying dumbasses, lying dumbasses.

Rightwingnuts lie so profusely because they know they can't win the debates honestly, and the reason why they can't win them honestly is because while DC politics may be center/right, it's a myth that we are a center/right nation.

This is why I've long been convinced BHO's victory is inevitable -- the growing widespread fear of rightwingnutttery that the Mutt's chronic and endless lying in defense of their policies, only contributes to.

I also see high potential for retaining the senate and retaking the house as a result as well.

[abelenkpe]

55. Republicans have an entire network eager to spread their lies

Fox news has been lying since the day it was founded and pumping out falsehoods about the current president 24/7 since the day he took office. Other networks never challenge the lies of politicians during interviews. Our media sucks. The only way to counter stuff is through the Internet. So yes, always challenge articles and news stories the same way we should always challenge bigotry. But with truth. Not lies.

[HughBeaumont]

58. Don't forget CNBC -

While they don't outright lie about President Obama, they're nothing more than a Heritage/CATO Institute/RNC/AEI propaganda arm just the same. They're RMoney enablers and feature more Conservative corporatists and politicians than you can shake a stick at, peddling the Reaganomics/Supply Side garbage from the bottom of the trashcan.

[hifiguy]

57. Rowdy Roddy Piper hit the nail on the head

when he said "You don't throw a rock at a guy with a machine gun!!"

You are correct, trumad, and we have been throwing rocks - pebbles, actually - at people who mean to destroy us by any means possible for far too long. Time to take the gloves off.

[HughBeaumont]

60. "Don't get me wrong, I'll throw ya a rope if yer drowning . . . .

. . . . (smiles) . . . . except I'll throw ya both ends." - Piper.

If I could get a "Best Of" of just Roddy Piper . . .

[hifiguy]

63. One of my favorite Piperisms

was "Just what exactly is your major malfunction anyway??"

[Larry Ogg]

59. Maybe if we could start electing democrats that agree with you...

Last edited Fri Apr 20, 2012, 05:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Then they could start spreading truth and justice by dragging the elected blood sucking criminal liars out into the light of day.

And maybe as a bonus, they could do away with the lip service and prove to the voters that criminal politicians are not above the law.

As apposed to the majority of elected democrats who help republicans sweep their crimes under the rug, so as the country can heal bullshit.

[Auggie]

61. I don't want to stoop to their level

because it makes Dems just as vile.

I want a smart, hard-hitting branding campaign that addresses conservative lies with truths and examples. Not necessarily aimed at Mitt (though he would be hurt by it), but at their conservative talking points. Every message ends on a high-note -- that change is obtainable by working together with the Left in power. Think "New Deal," but not as in programs.

People of all political affiliations are sick of the bullshit. The time is right to exploit this anger by reminding people why Democrats are different -- and better!

[GeorgeGist]

62. Gandhi:

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

[Gregorian]

64. It's as if we're trying to be like Jesus.

When asked if he would prove his power by destroying the Roman army, Jesus scolded the person and said not to tempt him. If he did that then he'd be just another evil power.

But that isn't what we're talking about here. This is a fight. And we must fight. "Stop singing, and start swinging".

[kentuck]

69. We should fight with the truth...

But the truth without a fight is impotent against bullies. Because we have the truth behind us does not mean we have to accede to our more peaceful and gentle nature. Sometimes we have to defend the truth in whatever way we can. Who amongst us does not believe the present-day Republicans are deceitful and intentional liars of the highest magnitude?

[Flying Squirrel]

66. Hmmm I wonder what would happen

if we closed a bunch of polling places in predominately rich areas and churches, and moved them elsewhere, then sent out letters to rich people and churchgoers giving them the wrong address for their new polling place?

[just1voice]

67. You just suggested (D)s lie to win at corrupt politics, LOL

You mean like saying you'll close GITMO, immediately end the wars, investigate war criminals and work for getting Americans what they want in universal health care coverage?

It's been done.

Here's an idea, tell the truth and work for the public's interest, throw war criminals in jail, get rid of for-profit health care, jail corrupt bankers instead of bailing them out and fining them 1/1000th of what they made committing crimes. That would be a good start.

[trumad]

68. Yeah---that will work.

[Doctor_J]

70. A major reason the party is almost dead

"Don't stoop to their level"..."Then we're just as bad as they are"..."Take the high road"..."Remember Gandhi"..."They've overplayed their hand THIS time"....

It makes me sick seeing how weak and pathetic we are.

[Dawson Leery]

73. I agree!

Did Roosevelt play softball will Wall Street?
Did Harry Truman play softball with the Big Business and the Tafts? Did he cower to the KKK?
Did LBJ play softball with the dixiecrat scum?