WTF........Darren Wilson: "Can I shoot this guy? Legally, can I?"

[Logical]

Really? He was in fear of his life and in a desperate situation and he is wondering if he can legally shoot him?
It sounds more to me like it was a decision made by someone who was not sure the situation allowed deadly force but after thinking about it a while decided he could shoot him and get away with it. And he did.

I thought that sounded like a really weird statement to make.

[maced666]

1. Out of context.

He was talking as in hindsight - not live time.
come on.

[Logical]

3. What does this mean to you....

"At that time I gave myself another mental check: Can I shoot this guy? You know, legally, can I?"

[MADem]

8. Here's what leaps out at me--why would a policeman look for a "mental check" to shoot

someone, yet NOT look for a reason or a way to de-escalate the situation.

Why isn't he giving himself a "mental check" along the lines of "How can I resolve this without gunfire in a densely populated apartment neighborhood? How soon can I get backup here to help me contain this situation?"

[Recursion]

10. Thank you. That's the other half of my Iraq comment downthread

Not only are you always thinking "what level of force is currently allowed?", you're always thinking "how can I step this situation down from there?".

[MADem]

11. I always think that the "To Protect And Serve" aspect needs to be re-emphasized.

These guys aren't "protecting" or "serving" the community if they're shooting at them. The people shouldn't be universally afraid of the police. This reminds me of the sixties and seventies, when the police were "pigs" and "police brutality" became the theme.

It's bad when children aren't taught to "tell the policeman if you see trouble" and instead are told "If you see the policeman, run away because there will be trouble."

[HereSince1628]

38. What? Stray bullets flying into random backstopping apartments is bad?

Don't you believe he did a "check that moment"for collateral damage?

No harm, no foul!

[arcane1]

12. Equipment isn't the only thing they get from the Pentagon. They get the Fallujah mentality too.

Trained to see all the citizens as potential "insurgents"

[bluesbassman]

13. Well that certainly blows apart the apologist's claim that he had a split second to defend himself.

If he had time enough to do a mental checklist on the legality of shooting Brown dead, one would have to grant that he also had time to develop a deescalation scenario.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

6. WRONG! nt

[ThePhilosopher04]

9. Nothing out of context about it

He was contemplating how to legally get away with killing a "thug" in his mind. Not apprehending him, he wanted to kill him. If he had time to think about it, he had time to figure out a reasonable way to detain in a non - violent manner. Darren Wilson is an evil GOD DAMNED son of a bitch and deserves to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

[Avalux]

34. The way he describes Brown is not as a human being - he didn't see him as a human being.

He doesn't have any remorse for what he did, and is trying to justify it by painting Brown as a monster.

If Wilson were a decent man, he would say he wishes he could go back and do things differently. He would say he's sorry Mike Brown died at his hands on that Saturday afternoon. He would, out of respect for Brown's family, decline to discuss the incident any further.

But he's not a decent man. He's the monster.

[dballance]

15. So then your point is he is embellishing (aka LYING)

Yes, he was talking in hindsight. If he was so in fear for his life I cannot see why he'd be taking a moment to have any other thought than "This person is going to kill me so I need to shoot." That Wilson testified he stopped to think about whether or not he should "legally" shoot Brown proves he wasn't at all sure his life was in danger. That he had time to make a decision.

[sabrina 1]

27. A person who is in fear for their life, as he claimed, doesn't have time to do a cold hearted,

mental check list as to the legality of what they are contemplating.

But he could have saved himself the 'concern', not for the life of another human being, that was absent from his mental meanderings, but because this is the USA and cops CAN kill unarmed citizens legally and with impunity. Nowhere else in the civilized world, but here, it happens almost daily.

He is a cold hearted creep and any sympathy I might have dredged up for him assuming he had a conscience and might regret taking that precious life, is GONE.

[LanternWaste]

33. You certainly appear to make many inaccurate statements...

You certainly appear to make many inaccurate statements for no other reason than to validate a particular and pre-defined bias you may to hold.

"Come on" indeed...

[Recursion]

2. I can say it was always in the back of your mind in Iraq

That's what people authorized to use deadly force are trained to think, pretty much all the time when they're on duty.

[morningfog]

5. Ah. Thanks. Now I understand.

[Recursion]

7. Now, does that mean *he* was in fact thinking it? No idea

I don't know how much tactical training he got, or whether it stuck. My personal hunch is that he wasn't thinking it, as evidenced by his unlawful shooting. But I think he's using that language because that's what you are in fact "supposed to" think in a situation like that.

Also, as MADem says very well above, the other half of that is that you are always trying to de-escalate, not escalate.

[sarisataka]

19. Agreed

I have had several situations where the brain check the box "you are clear to shoot"

The next step in the OODA "do I need to shoot NOW" If the answer is no then the cycle is "can I avoid shooting". A yes answer here will prevent future sleepless nights.

As you know, but to educate others, this will all happen in about the blink of an eye.

[Recursion]

20. Yeah, the "checkbox" model is a good one

Though personally I viewed my OODA loop as a "red yellow yellow yellow green" light cycle like when a formula one race starts.

[sarisataka]

23. That too

is a good analogy.

I think your analysis in the other thread is accurate. His OODA loop broke and he acted on instinct without thought. I have seen in happen to people in combat. Similar to panic but that is not an accurate description.

[Recursion]

24. Good point. He jumped from Orient to Action

But computers can do both of those. It's the "D" that only humans can provide...

[Kalidurga]

14. I have suspected premeditation for a long time

I never expected actual proof though.

[Hoyt]

16. If you have time to ponder that, you aren't in danger.

As a poster above said, why didn't he think of other ways of handling situation?

[Logical]

17. Yep! nt

[uppityperson]

18. That is not what you think when in fear for your life.

[Rex]

21. Why not just think, "hey if I floor it, he will lose his grip and I will get away."

All Wilson had to do was press down on the accelerator and wait for backup.

[Logical]

25. So true! But I think he was pissed off. Nt

[Rex]

28. This was my speculation a few weeks ago.

That Wilson backed up in a hurry and nearly ran over one or both of the teenagers. He went to open the door and it bounced off Brown and slammed shut. The teens laughed and Wilson went into a rage. Someone told me that was stupid, that nobody would just snap and do that...um YEAH, happens all the time...daily.

[Logical]

30. You are not stupid....

Cops hate for their authority to be questioned. And when they get question they tend to get pissed off.

[B Calm]

35. I haven't met a cop yet that wasn't on an ego trip. You'd be surprised

how many speeding tickets I avoided by building up their ego's after being pulled over.

(retired truck driver)

[Logical]

40. Interesting. Good idea! nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Every sentence out of his mouth is crafted by attorney to match the statute

while vaguely keeping to a moderately reasonable interpretation of the evidence.

It is so contrived that anybody with a lick of sense discards it entirely as the self-serving statement of somebody having committed a serious felony.

I mean, really. We have two versions of even the initial conversation. Wilson claims he politely asked the two youngsters to walk on the sidewalk. Dorian Johnson says that he said "Get the fuck on the sidewalk."

Which is more believable? I mean, honestly. But if you don't believe Wilson's anodyne rendering of even those first few words - and it is truly a ludicrous retelling, then Wilson begins his testimony with a self-serving and obvious lie. When does he stop lying? When? Never.

Then we're to believe that after Brown yells at him to fuck off, he returns calmly, and does a "C'mon, fellas, I'm just looking out for your safety" sort of second ask, while at the same time just then perhaps recognizing that Brown - described to a goddamn T in the dispatch (yellow socks up to his knees!), may be the - gasp - store robber.

It's ridiculous. His testimony is ridiculous.

And you know it.

[Logical]

26. +1000! Nt

[Blue_Tires]

32. +1

[helpmetohelpyou]

29. You caught that also in the interview

[Logical]

31. Yes, pissed me off! Nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

36. It sounded to me like something his lawyer told him to say

to make his audience (such as the grand jurors or the public) believe that he came to a judicious decision as to whether he could exercise deadly force under the law. In his interview as well, Wilson looks like he's been very heavily rehearsed as to what he should say by his lawyer.

[MineralMan]

37. If only he had asked, "How can I avoid having to shoot this guy?"

That might have led to a different result, I'm thinking. Let's see: He was in a police car, presumable one that was in operational condition. Perhaps he could have put that car in Drive or Reverse and driven away from the guy. That would have been my call, if faced with an unarmed person sticking his arm in the window. Drive on and deal with the situation after doing so.

Drive on, Officer. Drive on.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. If anyone ever wanted to know what would have happened if George Zimmerman actually was accepted...

....into the police force like he wanted to be.....

Well, now you know.

[loyalsister]

41. He did not have to feel like he was in eminent danger

That is the standard for citizens. For police, the stand for lethal force seems to be not much different from ordinary probable cause.

Chapter 563 of the Missouri Revised Statutes grants a lot of discretion to officers of the law to wield deadly force, to the horror of many observers swooping in to the Ferguson story. The statute authorizes deadly force “in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody” if the officer “reasonably believes” it is necessary in order to “to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested has committed or attempted to commit a felony…or may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.”