About Zimmy's skull.

[WingDinger]

That pic is enough, that we should NOT act like Zimmy apologists and deny any evidence. The REAL question is, when a man carrying a gun, and telling the police you are a criminal chases you down, in opposition to instructions by police, then confronts you, interrogates you and refuses to explain why he is chasing you, when the hell are you justified in standing your ground?

And when said vigilante's gun flashes as he reaches towards it, ostensibly to use cellphone, are you justified in beating his fake cop ass?

There is no utility in kneejerk dismissing as conspiracy, a clear shot of Zimmy's slightly bloody head. It certainly does not corroborate Zimmy's dad's STORY about Zimmy being a second or two away from lifelong diapers. Thus, the STORY that T was covering Z's mouth AND nose with both hands. This ludicrous story should be skewered.

PLEASE dont do head in the sand, like the right wing vigilante gun nuts. We are better than that.

[uponit7771]

1. There's no blood on the back of the t-shirt...none, if he was hit with a blooded blow

...IN THE RAIN then the blood would be everywhere.

This is shopped, I don't see a face

[Taitertots]

2. You have no legal right to attack people who annoy you

Neither did Trayvon.

[WingDinger]

4. I differ. If some punk thought himself judge and jury

to chase me after disparaging me to police, deny he is following me when I ask him a direct question at his car, then continues pursuit, and again refuses to answer why he is chasing me, now on foot, into dark regions where I ran to evade him, and flashes his gun, he is a dead man.

[Taitertots]

9. More likely, you would be dead and he would be legally justified in killing you

How about YOU CALL THE POLICE. You don't get to attack people who are annoying you.

Your outrageous double think is hilarious. Somehow the person who isn't breaking the law is "some punk thought himself judge and jury" but you want to murder this person but don't think that applies to you too.

[WingDinger]

12. Z caused this wholly anticipated course of events.

And dont you think that once the vigilante makes his lame fake police presence known to suspicious person, that ill intending suspicious person's crimes will be postponed? What is the justification of further pursuit?

[Taitertots]

19. No wait... What happened to the line of discussion started with post #4

Edit:You said the hypothetical person was breaking the law

[WingDinger]

25. I switched to Zimmy logic. There is NO utility to Zimmy's further stalking.

[SATIRical]

56. You didn't address why you would not just call the police

if someone were following you.

[WingDinger]

58. Cuz I was running? Or didnt have a cell?

[SATIRical]

66. Martin had a cell phone

and there wasn't a running chase going on (at least not according to the 911 calls).

Care to try again?

[WingDinger]

85. So, Martin had a DUTY to call cops and wait for them to respond, but Zimmy can hunt his prey just fi

fine?

[SATIRical]

98. Yes

If you hunt simply by following something and possibly yelling at it, you are going to go hungry.

BTW Zimmerman DID call the cops.

After that, we don't know what happened or who confronted who.

[1StrongBlackMan]

80. Because ...

you are 17?

And 17 year olds don't do stuff us older folks think to do ... in hindsight.

[joeglow3]

63. And so did the provocatively dressed whore who got raped.

At least, that is the logic many pieces of shit use. The reality is that a women can dress anyway she wants anywhere she wants without having to worry about getting raped.

If all Z did was follow the kid and his story is true, Trayvon would NOT be justified in the actions Z claims he carried out.

Now, in reality, I think much more happened that will come out at trial and justice will be served.

[joeybee12]

7. Phuck that...even if there was a scuffle you DON'T KNOW

who attacked whom, who initiated the actual blows.

[WingDinger]

13. That too.

[noiretextatique]

67. a kid is walking home from the store...minding his own business

armed wannabe-cop vigilante calls 911, ignores the suggestion to stand down, pursues the kid, and the kid ends up dead. the moment he ignored the dispatcher and pursued Martin, zimmerman lost any credibility about acting in self-defense.

[polly7]

10. How about people who stalk and terrify you ... alone, in the rain

and dark?

I keep seeing this, that Trayvon's fear was unjustified and he had no need to fight. It doesn't even make sense.

[Taitertots]

14. No reasonable person could take Zimmerman's actions to indicate....

an imminent threat to their life or risk of great bodily harm. Therefore attacking Zimmerman is not justified.

[polly7]

15. Were you there?

I consider myself very reasonable and would have certainly seen the actions of Martin as threatening. Where does the gun fit in your scenario? Or, was he such a compassionate man that he purposely kept it hidden so as not to frighten his prey any further?

[Taitertots]

17. I think you have a typo in your post

"Threatening" doesn't matter. It has to put you in imminent danger of loss of life and/or grievous bodily injury. Do you think that what Zimmerman did should have made Martin think that he was in immediate risk of dying?

[polly7]

21. Why yes .......... yes I do. nt.

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. Yeah ...

Being confronted by a stranger with a gun (pointed at you?), kind of gives off that vibe.

[shraby]

52. In these days of young people disappearing and being found much later dead, or not

being found at all, yes, I feel Martin was justified in his fear of Zimmerman. He had no idea who was following him and for what reason.
Myself, I would have been terrified.
Not only that, why teach children to fight against someone trying to kidnap them if you don't expect them to do it?
As far as Martin knew, Zimmerman was a kidnapper.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. Bull Shit ...

on so many levels.

[Taitertots]

28. I know it is totally bullshit...

That some people think they should be able to attack people just because they are bothering them.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. zimmerman's ...

conduct, prior to firing the shot, went far beyond being "bothersome." It was likely, criminal; and therefore the basis of the Murder 2 case the prosecution is bringing.

Based on the transcripts of the 911 calls and the reporting of contemporaneous conversations with family and family friends, it appears that zimmerman drew his weapon in order to detain Martin until the police arrived. His attempt to detain Martin led directly to the struggle that resulted in zimmerman shooting Martin.

No one has the right to detain anyone that is not/was not observed engaging in criminal conduct.

[Taitertots]

41. I have yet to see any evidence presented to support your claim...

That Zimmerman was attempting to hold Martin at gun point until police arrived. It would mean he is certainly guilty.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. I think we ...

see, and assign value to, what we want to see.

We have the 911 tape showing that zimmerman continued to purse Martin; why else would zimmerman not give the operator his location, but rather told the operator to have the responding officer call him?

We have the 911 tape showing that Martin approached zimmerman.

We have the girlfriend's statement that Martin asked zimmerman has intentions.

We have zimmerman's statement to the police that "he was paralyzed with fear" to the point that he forgot that he had the gun in his hand.

We have the statement by the family friend that zimmerman shot in self-defense as Martin struggled for the gun.

[Taitertots]

57. Martin's girlfriend isn't claiming Martin said Zimmerman was brandishing

And none of the other statements supports your assertion that Zimmerman was brandishing.

[noiretextatique]

74. the girlfriend did tell him to run

so clearly, whatever he told her alarmed her enough to tell him to run.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. What about ...

zimmerman's statement that PRIOR TO the shooting, he was paralyzed with fear ... to the point of not realizing he was HOLDING THE GUN?

[noiretextatique]

89. unless the detainee is black, apparently

and looks like a "ghetto thug," according to racist assholes on the 'net. then is perfectly fine to murder him.

[fascisthunter]

55. you mean like Zimmerman did

[EOTE]

42. Are you out of your mind?

You've got a vigilante cop-wannabe chasing you with a FREAKING GUN and you don't think that a reasonable person would take that as a threat to their life? Disregarding the fact that you weren't there (sure doesn't keep you from doing your damnedest to protect this evil murderer). Every one of your comments on this matter have been toward making it completely acceptable for a vigilante to stalk and harass an innocent while carrying a gun. That's sick and psychotic talk.

[Taitertots]

49. Do you have x-ray glass? I can't see who has a concealed weapon

Excluding the contested shooting, all of Zimmerman's actions were probably totally legal.

[EOTE]

51. Yeah, so the boy who was shot dead by a vigilante mad man had no reason to fear.

Brilliant reasoning. Everything was going hunky dory until the instant he got shot. Must be a rather confusing thing living in the mind of a typical gun nut.

[noiretextatique]

70. ridiculous assertions by this one

black kid walking home has no reason to fear crazy gun-toting wannabe cop who had been following him. i guess black kids should be used to the racist projections of others and just suck it up

[EOTE]

71. That's exactly what he's suggesting.

The 17 year old black kid needs to take the harassment endlessly and can't do anything about it. But as soon as that same black kid stands his ground and defends himself, he deserves to be shot. It's sickening.

[noiretextatique]

75. it is sickening...especially here

i get enough of this shit from rw trolls at the daily beast

[frylock]

78. you'll notice this poster has been called out as racist in this thread..

so far, no denial.

[noiretextatique]

90. LOL...just did that myself

no need for a denial...it's apparent.

[EOTE]

97. Some things are just too obvious to deny. NT

[noiretextatique]

69. really? how was Trayvon to know who was stalking him?

for all he knew, the guy could have been trying to kidnap or rape or murder him. as it turns out, it was murder.

[Taitertots]

72. "For all he knew" doesn't meet any of the legal standards for self-defense

It doesn't even begin to justify starting the fight that would ultimately end in Trayvon Martin's death.

For all you know the grocery bagger is secretly poisoning your food. It is non-sense justification for action.

[noiretextatique]

73. the only person who says Trayvon initiated physical contact is zimmerman

zimmerman is the one who likely made contact, because he escalated the situation by getting out of his car. he was likely the aggressor, based on his previous actions. in that case, Martin had every right to defend himself. and speaking of "reasonable" was ANYTHING zimmerman did "reasonable?" was it reasonable to profile martin? to call the cops? to get out of his car? to pull his weapon? i so he is a paranoid freak, Martin had every right to be where he was, doing exactly what he was doing. zimmerman's actions, though paranoid, were fine...until he got out of the car.

[Quixote1818]

87. Bull shit! Trayvon probably thought he was a child molester

And even if it wasn't justified, killing someone in a fight is MUCH less justified. Also the blond witness even said she suspected Zimmerman handled approaching Trayvon in an aggressive, overbearing manor because she knows what an idiot he is around the neighborhood. Zimmerman has a history of aggressive behavior and violence. My money is on him starting the fight and perhaps losing then shooting Trayvon in anger. Especially since there is a high probability it was Trayvon crying for help just before the shots were fired. We know for sure it wasn't Zimmerman crying for help.

[JVS]

100. If Zimmerman had been killed in the altercation and Trayvon were now on trial, there could be...

a good argument that Trayvon did take Zimmerman's actions as an imminent threat and the defense would have a good chance of being successful.

[uponit7771]

11. Screams for help were NOT Zmans, forensics already done on voice....blows holes

...in zman defenders stories.

Please stay, an objective voice needs to be heard

Thx

[WingDinger]

16. Yes, that little tidbit of evidence CLEARLY shows that blowing a hole in T's chest was vengeance for

[Horse with no Name]

20. IF Trayvon had a gun

He had EVERY right to drop Zimmerman to the grave.

Even without a gun, he had every right to defend himself from this stalker....or does the law just apply to idiots with guns? Is that the other poison pill that is in this law?

[Taitertots]

22. You are expressing clear ignorance of the SYG laws

"he had every right to defend himself from this stalker"
There must be reasonable fear of death and/or great bodily injury. Zimmerman's actions never met the legal standards for SYG laws to apply.

[WingDinger]

27. And if fake cop vigilante brandished the weapon, to detain suspicious person?

Just out of curiosity, do you have a Concealed weapons permit?

[Taitertots]

30. I don't carry, I live in a nice community

Brandishing a weapon is illegal and so is detaining a suspicious person.

[WingDinger]

31. Bully for you being able to afford a nice location.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I Think He Was Referring To Its Ethnic And Racial Composition But I Will Let Him Or Her Answer It

.

[frylock]

65. indeed..

i, too, have my suspicions regarding the intent of this poster and their vigorous efforts in establishing that martin had no right to defend himself while zimmerman did.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. What Makes It Nice In Your Opinion? Is It The Racial And Ethnic Composition Of Its Residents ?

..

[Taitertots]

40. Low crime rate, decent economic prospects, public services... n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. This is exactly why your ...

"being bothersome" argument fails.

[frylock]

79. word

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Are you "forgetting" ...

that zimmerman was armed? At that point, the degal standard of reasonable fear of death and/or great bodily injury is met.

[shraby]

53. What makes you then think that Trayvon's actions were threatening? He's the one who ended up dead.

[frylock]

24. my buddy was "annoyed" by a group of men in a car while he was riding his skateboard home..

from the bar just a couple weeks ago. they followed him a little while and then did a slow roll by and sped off. two minutes later he was getting the shit kicked out of him by three guys. they drove around the corner and waited for him. so no, fuck your premise about being "annoyed" by someone stalking you. and don't give me this bullshit about how stalking has to occur over several times to be considered stalking. a lion stalks it's prey. it doesn't stalk for several days or weeks, parking out in front of the thompson gazelle's home, calling in the middle of the night, or sending threatening texts or emails.

[WingDinger]

29. My grandfather was murdered by a gang that was taking revenge on the first white person they encoun

tered. they kicked, shot, stabbed him. This, for the interest of a crossing guard into the story of a little girl who was raped as a hazing to gain entry into gang. In broad daylight, right in front of their apt.

They had underagers do the killing. They killed random white person, so it would not be murder one. They were for the first time in history, let out on their own recognizance. My Grandmother, while in court, had to have two marshalls flanking her, or the crowd at the trime would lynch her in the courtroom. The family of one of the killers, took the whole family, parked outside the crossing guards home, and glared, for weeks.

Were you to take your cavalier attitude to threats in Compton, where my granny lived, you would be LONG DEAD.

PS, this line is not directed towards you, but those persons who declare a perfect right to stalk.

[Taitertots]

43. They followed him briefly before slowly driving past and accelerating to speed

At what point prior to him being directly confronted by them outside of their cars should he be justified in escalation of force?

[frylock]

59. at what point prior to martin being directly confronted by zimmerman..

was he justified in escalation of force? you don't know, and neither do i. but to dismiss the fact that trayvon was obviously concerned for his saftey, as has been reported by his girlfriend who was having a conversation with him over the phone while he was being followed, is utter bullshit.

[Taitertots]

62. When Zimmerman's actions cause a reasonable fear of death or Grievous Injury

When people start beating the shit out of you, you have reason to believe they are going to kill you or cause grievous bodily injury. When someone walks up to you and asks who you are and/or what you are doing, you don't have a reason to believe that your death may be imminent.

[frylock]

64. look, it's obvious that you're gonna go to the mat for zimmerman..

maybe your scared of black people. i don't know, but i'm done discussing this with you. good day.

[Taitertots]

68. Of course you are done...

Your whole position boils down to: Anyone who doesn't agree with me is racist.

[frylock]

77. no, i'm done with you because you can't seem to grasp a very simple concept..

sitting there in your nice, comfy, safe neighborhood; that being followed by a stranger in a vehicle who then follows you on foot just might cause a body to fear for their lives. you've reduced that stalking to a mere annoyance. fuck that shit. now go ahead and get your last dig in before you're added to my ignore list.

[noiretextatique]

76. sorry...following someone in a car

who you did not witness committing a crime, is not a reasonable action. Martin had every reason to be afraid of some asshole who was following him. and he had every reason to believe the person meant him harm.

[Taitertots]

82. Being scared and having legal and/or moral justification are two different things

There is no reason to believe being briefly followed and verbally confronted is an imminent threat to your life.

Do you think starting the fight that ultimately ends in your death is a reasonable thing to do?

[noiretextatique]

86. IF he started the fight

so far, we have to rely on the murderer's assertion that he did, which you obviously believe...I DO NOT, especially since he lied under oath today. your child is walking home and being followed by a stranger...what would you expect your child to do when that stranger confronted him? have a polite conversation? and as i said before: IF Trayvon clocked his racist ass, good for him. is it "reasonable" to believe that a self-appointed, armed vigilante who pursued Martin after being told not to, then got out of his car and approached Martin...is it "reasonable" to believe the man who did all that was not the aggressor? HELL NO. the only reason this bullshit about who started the fight is even an issue is because of the RACE of the victim. if Trayvon was white, i doubt it would matter. zimmerman is relying on racism for credibility...and it will work on some. he would have been better off claiming it was an accident.

[Quixote1818]

92. How is ending a fight with a gun a reasonable thing to do?

You think its ok to kill someone because you have a scratch on your head? Give me a fucking break.

[noiretextatique]

93. apparently unarmed black, male teenagers

have super powers. and of course, zimmerman can claim he was afraid, after stalking and confronting Martin.

[Quixote1818]

96. We already know Zimmerman is violent and has a short fuse

We also know it wasn't Zimmerman crying for help. Pretty simple that the one who was NOT crying for help and fired the shots is guilty of at least man slaughter.

[jeff47]

95. The moment Zimmerman touched Martin, he was assaulting Martin.

And all the stories talk about Zimmerman grabbing Martin at the beginning of their altercation. That's assault. Martin could justifiably use deadly force against Zimmerman at that point.

If Zimmerman had only stuck to following Martin, then you'd have a point. But Zimmerman didn't.

[obamanut2012]

101. No, that was the moment Zimmy committed battery

He committed assault before then.

But, you are totally right.

[jeff47]

102. Assault when he reached, battery when he made contact

Was using vernacular instead of legal definition.

[FarLeftFist]

3. Fakest blood drips ever.

[WingDinger]

5. Why are you afraid of a few drops of blood?

[Daalalou]

6. From the beginning, before the police video was released...

... I thought that Zimmerman probably fell and hit his head during his scuffle with Martin. I came to this conclusion because the police report said he was bleeding from the back of the head, but he was merely treated at the scene by EMT's and wasn't transported to a hospital. To me, this said that he had a minor head injury, one that might be consistent with falling, and certainly not one created by having one's head bashed repeatedly against a sidewalk.

When the police video was released, I thought that maybe the blood on his head was Trayvon's (Zimmerman having touched his head after touching Trayvon's body), or that a police officer doctored the report (since it had been revised) to justify their decision to let Zimm go.

Now that it appears his head was bleeding, is there anything to suggest that my original theory isn't correct?

[WingDinger]

8. Nope, but to deny it is blood, out of hand, or that cops doctored it, is reactionary.

IIII think that T was justified in trying to subdue his armed stalker. And if T did get Z on his back, and was punching his fool head, the sideways thrust, would make those small patches of blood.

[99Forever]

23. Nonsense.

There is ZERO evidence that it is even an actual photo pf Zimmerman.

And even if it is:

The "photographer" is anonymous. Why?

There is zero evidence of WHEN it was taken.

it magically appears on the day of this murderer's bond hearing.



How freaking gullible are you?

[WingDinger]

33. Gullible enough to wait for chain of evidence.

[99Forever]

44. "chain of evidence"....

... for a photo that magically appears months after the crime on the day of the bond hearing?

Well allllllllllllllllllll-rightie then.

[Rex]

46. No kidding!

Someone is going to be waiting forever.

[frylock]

26. they look like scrapes or "road rash"

certainly nothing of the shitting in diapers and eating from an IV category.

[WingDinger]

32. Yes, if T punched Z's fool head, while fool was on back, road rash.

[Quixote1818]

94. Agree 100%. nt

[slackmaster]

36. You are justified in standing your ground when you have a reasonable fear of imminent injury/death

What's reasonable or not depends on the exact circumstances.

[Rex]

45. If you want to believe a fake picture then go ahead.

The mans clothes are perfect in the video footage. Not a drop of blood on them.

[WingDinger]

47. Um, if you were to fake a pic, to gin up your testimony, wouldnt you apply more blood

and get it on the clothes?

[Rex]

48. Sound like you might.

And that would be hard to do without the original clothing. SO obvious it is sad.

[appleannie1]

54. That story has so many holes in it. If T was covering Z's mouth, how could he be the one

screaming for help? In the statement yesterday he said that after he shot him T spoke, then turned and fell face down on the ground. How could he have done that if he was sitting on top of Z? For him to turn and fall face down, he had to have been standing.

[WingDinger]

60. yuppers

[Rex]

61. They are trying hard to find a way to hide the truth.

Grasping at everything that might help them or at least what they think will help. Pouring monkey blood over somebodies head and calling it human blood is just not the same thing!

[Quixote1818]

84. I don't think the cuts look bad at all. I once hit my head on the edge of the cabinet and

it bled all over the place. I am sure it would have looked about like that photo had I been bald. A few drips of blood can make a small scratch look a lot worse than it is. There is a small gash but it almost looks like Trayvon scratched him there during the fight.

[GeorgeGist]

88. My baloney meter says to me that Zimmerman [not Zimmy] is being framed ...

to walk free.

[noiretextatique]

91. yep

it certainly appears that way.

[spin]

99. Flashing a firearm in Florida to gain advantage in an encounter ...

is illegal in Florida and can lead to as much as three years in prison.

Up until last year, a person with a Florida Concealed Weapons Permit could get in a heap of trouble if he inadvertently flashed his weapon. One example would have been if a gust of wind caught the carrier's jacket while he was walking across a parking lot.

To answer your question:

And when said vigilante's gun flashes as he reaches towards it, ostensibly to use cellphone, are you justified in beating his fake cop ass?

I might not only be justified in "beating his fake cop ass" but since I have a Florida Concealed Weapons Permit and am white, I could probably shoot the confrontational asshole and actually claim that I was standing my ground. I was where I had a right to be and was doing nothing illegal when confronted by an aggressive individual who was armed. I could argue that I had good reason to fear for my life.

Of course, I personally would try to defuse the situation. I have been in several tight situations in my life and have managed to successfully talk my way out of them. However if I seriously felt that the person who confronted me was extremely aggressive and irrational and I had no doubt that he intended to put me in the hospital or six foot under I might chose to defend myself.