General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere's what will happen because of Ferguson:
Some protesters will be put in jail.
Some #%^*heads who yammer about black people needing to obey the law will be re-elected by other #%^*heads. Many black people will not be able to vote because of GOP voter supression; but, don't worry, there will be an investigation and stuff and a Friday afternoon press release enumerating a few ways to improve things in a bipartisan fashion.
Officer Wilson will become a little bit wealthy. His fellow officers will smirk a bit more than before when they #%^* with the black locals.
The swells in MO government will smirk over cocktails, and shake their heads in disbelief over the inability of "those people" to know their rightful place.
The swells in DC will consider what Fox News would say, then do nothing. Followed by being showered by inconceivable wealth from their new jobs on Wall Street.
And Michael Brown will molder in his grave, a candle snuffed so early by criminal stupidity or worse.
I am so angry tonight... 'nuff said. (And no doubt I'll be called a racist for posting this, for some bizarre reason or another. Better Believe It!, eh Swarm?)
We gotta get our #%^* together and do something. This all is very, very, very wrong, and cannot end well unless we get tough, and fast.
Warpy
(111,249 posts)I saw so much of it as a nurse and recognize that kind of rage.
Any cop found on steroids needs to be fired. Period. And blacklisted for guns.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)reason to believe Wilson was either on steroids or speed. There's just no other explanation for his erratic and reckless behavior as suggested by Johnson's testimony. It's positively creepy.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1371051-grand-jury-volume-4.html
Warpy
(111,249 posts)to recognize it.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Another criminal act.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)There was no toxicology report for Wilson, but there was for Brown. Where the hell is it?
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Is it a byproduct of drug use?
REP
(21,691 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)I only saw the drug screen, not the other labs so without knowing what other tests were done, I can't say with certainty. Since creatinine is present is everyone's urine, it could be to make sure it's urine. A very high Cr with any otherwise unremarkable renal panel can indicate dehydration. A urine Cr is usually done with serum creatinine as a random urine creatinine is kind of meaningless on its own (unless it's a Cr : P).
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... more missing evidence. They damn sure did toxicology on Michael Brown, though. The murderer was NOT tested, and the dead man was.
"Land of Laws" my arse. There is NO LAW in Missouri, and evidently in the USA if this whole debacle of injustice is allowed to stand.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #20)
Post removed
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... do you honestly believe that? There has been so many lies & such a miscarriage of justice, how can you believe anything that the local and county PD's or the PA's said or did since the tragic moment Wilson gunned that boy down? Honestly. Come on.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)test results what good would that do?
ReRe
(10,597 posts)What good is anything? Because nothing was taken serious from start to finish. And as for the DOJ involvement, justice delayed is justice denied. This injustice of police brutality against our black citizens is abhorrent and must not be allowed to continue on unabated.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)vlyons
(10,252 posts)Lot of fearful people drink to give themselves "courage." Alcohol has proven over and over to cause some people to get mean and violent.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)The test was 4 hours after the shooting, so it could have been above 0 then, but he certainly wasnt drunk.
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/248136137/embed
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Assume toxicological (drug) testing and/or alcohol testing. He should have been taken to a hospital immediately and tested, rather than 4 hrs past the incident! All I can figure is that police are above the law and presumed innocent in all instances. What other inference could be surmised?
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)issue like this. I'm not sure if the authorities had the right to take him right in for testing. I'm just speculating here.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Sadly, not seeing pushback.
I guess we all know how utterly #%^*ed this is, even the Defenders.
Kablooie
(18,628 posts)Ever since the 60s the same thing explodes every decade or so because nothing seems to change.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Every once in a while it catches the light at just the right angle and the glitter attracts attention.
Ykcutnek
(1,305 posts)There's always these brief glimmers of hope about us standing up tall, strong and proud...
Then it suddenly fades... and back we go to monotony.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)Didn't reference that right. But hopeful you all know what i meant. I hope.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Absolutely, Manny.
I hope you have a loved one to share thanks with tomorrow, or at this hour, today.
It's kind of a regroup day.
We have to do something. But for one day, find your peace, share your love, share your time for those in need, and share your thanks. It will build your strength for tomorrow's fight.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Big family feud. Likely a day-long airing of grievances.
But I appreciate the thought, thanks!
vadermike
(1,415 posts)my dad has been around a long time.. he has seen it all , he is 76 years old.. he cant believe we are going backwards like this but he always says this country takes many steps forward and then many many back unfortunately.. but he said this crap will not end well.. if nothing is done and more incidents happen , you could see watts riots x 10 or worse.. this shit keeps happening and this is the fing 21st century.. you could see arab spring type stuff ..hopefully it will be peaceful but i think alot people have had enough of this.. i see it on alot of my friends facebook feeds (african americans) and i don't blame them one bit.. its getting out of control...that combines with people's anxiety in general and you have the crazy rwers now buying guns in record numbers , this may not end well.. i just get this sense that our fellow countrymen have gone off the deep end.. especially since President Obama has been POTUS... its total BS... but i dont know what it is going to take to stop this crazy crap!!! rant off. just my .02...
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Walking my dog down the street when a Molotov cocktail was thrown into a store and exploded.
I was a bridesmaid for a wedding held in Watts. The only white person there.
The destruction there looked like a war zone.
I understand the total frustration of year after year being treated as a second class citizen and the anger that produces.
I had hopes things were changing and the bigotry in this country was going away. Then Pres. Obama was elected and OMG it's all out in the open.
I am ashamed to be called an American! I'm old enough to remember the "whites only" signs in public places. How long before congress puts those up.
My country has many problems, from being a war monger to apartheid ( though not obvious)!
We as a country are in trouble and if it doesn't change we will destroy it from within!
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)littlewolf
(3,813 posts)those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.
Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
There is a similar quote by Edmund Burke that often leads to misattribution, "People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana#Vol._I.2C_Reason_in_Common_Sense
malthaussen
(17,187 posts)"He who doesn't understand history is doomed to repeat it." This is rather similar to Santayana's sentiment.
But as Kurt Vonnegut pointed out, to be alive is to relive the past. I think it is human nature to put old wine in new bottles.
-- Mal
csziggy
(34,136 posts)http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana#Vol._I.2C_Reason_in_Common_Sense
ReRe
(10,597 posts)"How can you know where you're going if you don't know where you've been?"
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)It took eight years, three mayors, and five police chiefs, including L.A.'s first and second African-American police chiefs, to get there, but these reforms were all carried out and only after nine years of DOJ oversight was the consent decree lifted in 2009 and control of the LAPD returned to the police commission:
http://www.lapdonline.org/assets/pdf/final_consent_decree.pdf
Short answer: a lot. But it took several years, not a few days.
................................
Willie L. Williams, LA Police Chief June 30, 1992 May 17, 1997
Bernard C. Parks, LA Police Chief August 12, 1997 - May 4, 2002
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)source: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0425/Los-Angeles-riots-20-years-later-has-LAPD-reformed
The point is that the Rodney King unrest led to significant, systematic reform including 8 years of DOJ oversight consequent to federal charges brought in 2000, eight years after RK but stemming from it. DOJ investigations take time and the DOJ is actively investigating Ferguson.
But if it's instant gratification you're after, L.A. got its first African-American police chief less than 2 months after RK, and it wouldn't surprise me if Ferguson gets a new chief very soon. You heard it here first.
p.s. from LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014953765
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)What CAN we do? As you have observed, protests accomplish little or nothing.
Riots and vandalism accomplish less than nothing (which is why provocateurs instigate them).
Our influence over the political process is at an all-time low and dropping fast.
Revolutions always get hijacked by religious fundamentalists these days, we'd get Christian Dominionists instead of Islamists, but that's not really any consolation at all.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)And get them to get out and vote.
We can also work towards restoring felon's rights so more of the disenfranchised are eligible to vote. Many state laws need to be changed so people's rights are not permanently removed - that happened in Florida under Charlie Crist but Rick Scott rolled it back.
Aside from those efforts, we HAVE to get people to actually VOTE. As we see by this last election, when the majority of registered voters don't get out to vote, we (liberals, progressives, Democrats, minorities) LOSE. The Republicans know this - that is why they do everything possible to suppress not only voters' rights, but to suppress voting.
The Democratic Party will not do it - so "we" (the "royal" we) have to. That is why ACORN was so dangerous - they were getting people registered, getting people's rights restored, and getting people to the polls. That is why ACORN was destroyed.
We need a new ACORN!
ladjf
(17,320 posts)and it's definitely doable. Only 10% of the black citizens of Ferguson voted in the last election. Get that number up to 80% and the political picture would change immediately.
Screw all of that "horse crap" about "We've all got to get together and work out our differences." That's a hollow recipe.
Cast the most votes and take steps to insure that they will ALL be counted will turn things around. By the way, eliminating the fraud will be the most difficult task. The people in power are skilled and relentless in "rigging" the elections.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)They dropped ACORN and ran like it was a radioactive hot potato.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)are you saying that the Democratic Party didn't want ACORN to register voters? And if so, why?
former9thward
(31,984 posts)WASHINGTON Democrats in Congress are abandoning an embattled community organizing group after Republicans stepped up attacks on the liberal-leaning ACORN and the federal funding it receives.
Majorities of Senate and House Democrats voted Thursday in favor of separate Republican proposals to block federal funding for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.
The group has come under heavy criticism following the release Monday of a video showing ACORN employees apparently advising a couple, posing as a prostitute accompanied by her pimp, about how to conceal their line of work, evade taxes and handle undocumented, under-age sex workers.
In the Senate, 45 Democrats and Joseph I. Lieberman, I-Conn., backed an amendment offered by Nebraska Republican Mike Johanns to bar any funds provided under the fiscal 2010 Interior Appropriations bill (HR 2996) to go to ACORN.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32917270/ns/politics-cq_politics/t/democrats-run-away-embattled-acorn/#.VHfFRPnESPs
csziggy
(34,136 posts)I don't worry much about individual voter fraud - there is so little of it and not much incentive.
I worry a lot about the high percentage of disenfranchised citizens. Too many people have been convicted of things that should not permanently cost them their rights. Why should those people care about how this country is run when they have no say - it should be a cry equivalent to the "No taxation without representation!" Restore people's rights, let them vote, get them involved and they will have a bigger stake in their communities.
As for stopping election rigging: We need paper ballots - I don't mind having scanners for quick results, but with paper ballots there should ALWAYS be hand counts to verify the results. If that is done with proper supervision - representatives from each party and/or from each candidate - we can trust our elections
Vattel
(9,289 posts)There should be demands for a new Grand Jury. The process was a joke. The prosecutor should have focused the Grand Jury's attention on the relevance of whether Wilson was shooting at Brown as Brown fled. They should have been told that in 1985 the Supreme Court ruled that the Fourth Amendment prohibits shooting a fleeing suspect who poses no immediate danger to anyone. Instead the grand jury was handed an outdated statute saying that officers could shoot at a fleeing suspect.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)I look at successful efforts at change for models.
Vietnam: Lots of protests and fights but those did little to change the overall population's mind. When the media like Time magazine started publishing pictures of "this weeks dead", and Life magazine started following and showing daily pictures, and the TV news started broadcasting field reports, then "the average Joe" began to be emotionally involved.
Civil Rights Act: Riots and fights just hardened and polarized opinions, but the image of peaceful well dressed black people trying to eat at a counter, ride a bus, or register to vote being attacked, struck a chord in folks.
Ferguson: Riots, fires, looting, and protesting isn't going to do anything but harden people's opinions. I live in a very conservative area, and there is absolutely NO sympathy for Brown around here. These aren't bad people, they just get their news from Fox, and Brown is not a good example for most people to rally around (stealing & fighting with police are non-starters for a sympathetic response). They can have their minds changed though.
It's going to take a shot at the publics heart to get things to change. Something along the lines of Time magazine of innocent people killed by police this week done week after week until it sinks in.
madville
(7,408 posts)Zero sympathy on Tuesday at the government office building I work at, the opinion almost completely across the board was that Brown was ultimately responsible for creating the situation by robbing the store and allegedly assaulting the officer/supposedly going for the officer's gun.
It's bright red around here, can't change anyone's mind, they already "know" everything anyway. The maddening part is that we will never know what really happened. Anything anyone says or thinks is simply an opinion and their interpretation, the "facts" can't be pinned down.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Posting on the internet would be a start. We need to organize boycotts nationally and globally. Cutting into their bottom line, it's the only thing these filthy corporations understand. The Saudi's maintaining their levels of oil production has the USA fracking industry starting to raise their voices. We the people of this planet have this much power, if not more.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)the first thign we need to do,possiboly even more so than voting itself, is to undermine the media empires, beucase the media is the engine that keeps the people fromunderstandign anything. Yes, Bill Clinton, you are very much to blame, thanks to your murder of the telecommuncations act.
madville
(7,408 posts)Many more departments already have or will outfit their vehicles and officers with cameras and microphones.
Video evidence would have immediately clarified this particular incident, whatever it may have shown, could have led to charges against Wilson or exonerated him completely, we'll never know for sure.
I used to work for a company that sold, installed, and repaired vehicular camera systems for the police. Most officers liked the cameras once they got used to it being there and understood that it being there could be to their advantage, many had stories about the recordings saving their bacon so to speak. Saw several officers severely reprimanded and some fired for stuff caught on video as well, it goes both ways.
Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)has no cameras in their cars nor do they want them. The cameras would show too many things not in their favor.
You can ask any RN who works in the ER in our hospital and she can name the cops who regularly beat the shit out of people. This is known in my county as "resisting arrest".
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)in place of a trial based on actual charges to try a case? This abuse of the system is egregious and is a violation of both the rights of the accuser and the accused, as far as I'm concerned.
maced666
(771 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)We need an end to the militarization of our police, which is federally driven. We need real accountability, including a national database of police violence and relentless DOJ attention to police abuses.
Yet when the CRITICAL role of purchased, corporate politicians in the creation of this police state America is becoming is mentioned, the Third Way circles the wagons and refuses to demand accountability from our politicians. No, we are to cheer pretty speeches instead, even though they come with no intent for real change. The militarization continues.
Exactly what we have come to expect from our corporate government when it comes to outrages like this.
Nothing ever gets better anymore. We get cynical, pretty speeches and cheering propaganda voices, and nothing more. No one is ever serious about actual change for the better.
In fact, the corporate politicians making pretty speeches are relentlessly making things worse:
____________________________________________________________________________
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025390424
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/aclu-police-militarization-swat_n_2813334.html
It's almost certain that if the police agencies cooperate, the ACLU will find that the militarization trend has accelerated since Kraska's studies more than a decade ago. All of the policies, incentives and funding mechanisms that were driving the trend then are still in effect now. And most of them have grown in size and scope.
The George W. Bush administration actually began scaling down the Byrne and COPS programs in the early 2000s, part of a general strategy of leaving law enforcement to states and localities. But the Obama administration has since resurrected both programs. The Byrne program got a $2 billion surge in funding as part of the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, by far the largest budget in the program's 25-year history. Obama also gave the COPS program $1.55 billion that same year, a 250 percent increase over its 2008 budget, and again the largest budget in the program's history. Vice President Joe Biden had championed both programs during his time in the Senate.
The Pentagon's 1033 program has also exploded under Obama. In the program's monthly newsletter (Motto: "From Warfighter to Crimefighter" , its director announced in October 2011 that his office had given away a record $500 million in military gear in fiscal year 2011, which he noted, "passes the previous mark by several hundred million dollars." He added, "I believe we can exceed that in FY 12.
Then there are the Department of Homeland Security's anti-terrorism grants. The Center for Investigative Reporting found in a 2011 investigation that since 2001, DHS has given out more than $34 billion in grants to police departments across the country, many of which have been used to purchase military-grade guns, tanks, armor, and armored personnel carriers. The grants have gone to such unlikely terrorism targets as Fargo, N.D.; Canyon County, Idaho; and Tuscaloosa, Ala.
It's united oligarchy, not divided democracy. And it's united oligarchy with a relentless propaganda machine to try to obscure the truth.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I concede that I am, to a degree, naive.
But when I have an issue with something generally (e.g. not related to a specific crime experience) I've contacted the chief of police or the Sheriff and asked him to meet me over a cup of coffee.
I'm not suggesting that this is a panacea everywhere, but the more that cops see the merits of community policing the better for us all.
Successful communities have bidirectional personal relationships with the police officers and administrators working there.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)targets to "correct" those stats by whatever means needed to give the appearance of "improvement" usually in some quality of life index that those much higher up demand to see improved. I watched it happen in NYC, where they spent a lot of time trying to get victims NOT to press for an investigation of charges on any violent crime. The cops I knew were disgusted. If they don't report it, NYC real estate gets more valuable.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)the better things will eventually be.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)posts that used Brown's tragic death as your fodder.
And this is all you can come up with? Thin gruel.
And trying to minimize how ugly your previous two threads were by brushing off well deserved criticism as "eh, swarm" indicates you don't get it.
This particular OP seems more like ass-covering for your previous two insults.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Will post results when they come in.
Edit: 5-2 Leave.
Sid
dionysus
(26,467 posts)seeking.. to meee? vhat?
JI7
(89,247 posts)including those who try to make everything about themselves including using other people's tragedy to ridicule and then try to make themselves out to be the victim when called out on it.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)If you'd like to point out the specific parts of my posts that were ugly or insulting, I'd love to know. Otherwise, please apologize for spraying diarrhea all over DU.
indepat
(20,899 posts)and shamefully shit upon by TPTB.
gordianot
(15,237 posts)When the bottom line $$ is considered maybe there will be movement for justice.
Considering that Governmemt cannot legislate background checks for firearms after multiple massacres when kindergarteners are slaughtered by unidentified strangers I do not hold out much hope when unarmed 18 year old is slaughtered by a policeman that anything will be either legislated or done to correct the situation. Even obvious charges of racism carry little weight to these people without a shred of conscience or empathy.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Whereby all shootings by cops if questionable go immediately
to a higher authority than the local boys?
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Makes too much sense.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Post removed
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)but only if they cannot be turned off or fiddled with in other ways.
I would also like to see a special prosecutor for every police caused
killing, although I am not sure how that person can be chosen without
running into the difficulty we have observed in Ferguson.
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)Your faux concern says it all. You don't give a damn about Michael, you never have. Your concern was blaming a black man for not taking on the banks. Before you alert on me, I lost another loved one last night. I am grieving in a way that you cannot understand, yes different from Michaels family grief. It was not violence, it was due to Monsanto and asbestos.
Please stop making fun of this, it is an insult.
I thank you. Two in two weeks. It's hard.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)The more things change... etc.
marym625
(17,997 posts)But watching the protests across the country, the #stoptheparade movement and the solidarity with people across the country, has given me a little hope. A little.
However, if the killing of Tamir Rice goes the way of Michael Brown, John Crawford and countless others, as far as I am concerned, all bets are off. Burn it down. It's the only thing that the government, the 1% and the cops care about, property
Kennah
(14,256 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Long term, I'm afraid it's going to get much, much worse. I've known some good cops, but the idiots and jerks I've known who were cops unfortunately greatly outnumber them. Of course, it's not just cops, either. It's the racial outlook of Americans in general. For so long, there has been this little act as if racial prejudice did not exist, or was not harmful - particularly among white, clueless conservatives.
Then a black man was elected President - and suddenly the level of hatred, racism, bigotry, stupidity... the threats, the insults, they were right out there in the open. I once knew a young man from South Carolina who told me that the South would rise again, that the civil war had not truly ended, that it was just a long damned truce. Some times, I wonder if perhaps he was right.
I don't think that it's going to go well for quite some time, Manny. I have faith that, in time, it will end well - that things will change for the better. It's time to pull out that ugly old racism, drag it's ass into the open - and confront it. As long as we have so many shmucks denying it's very existence, I fear we'll see more Michael Browns.