"Michael Brown wasn't shot in the back, so Wilson didn't shoot at him while he was running away"

[justiceischeap]

I've been seeing this a whole lot on DU and other places as proof that Wilson didn't shoot at a fleeing Brown.

A total of 12 shots were fired. Michael Brown had 6 bullet holes in his body. That leaves 6 bullets unaccounted for. However, we know where two of those bullets went--one in the door panel of Wilson's SUV and the other in a woman's apartment. That leaves a total of 4 bullets unaccounted for.

We know from grand jury testimony that the scene wasn't measured because according to the crime scene tech giving testimony, there was no need to measure the scene, it was obvious what happened. So this would lead one to assume that bullet trajectory wasn't investigated either. We also have Drs. Baden and Wecht stating that one of the bullet wounds in Browns' arm goes in through the back of his arm and comes out the front--that's better than JFKs magic bullet if Wilson wasn't ever shooting at Brown while he was running away.

The point of this post is this: Just because Brown wasn't hit in the back doesn't mean Wilson didn't shoot as he was running away. Lack of evidence isn't proof, it just means that there isn't evidence available to prove definitively (outside eyewitness accounts) that Wilson shot while Brown was running away. However, I would say between Drs. Wecht and Baden, we DO have proof that Brown was shot while running away.

BTW, Wecht seems pretty adamant that the bullet trajectory in Brown's autopsy pretty much proves that Michael Brown had his arms raised at some point when he was shot and he also touches on the one wound that goes in the back and comes out the front.

h/t to BrotherIvan for this video

[hlthe2b]

1. Wecht is clearly p'od about how this has unfolded. I hope we hear more from him.

[Shemp Howard]

33. Poor excuse for journalism in that clip.

Wecht said some very interesting, and important, things in that clip. Yet not a single follow-up question came. Just a "thanks", and that was it. Really?

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. The Crime scene wasn't photographed either?

is that correct? I think I read that somewhere. If so... then WTF?

[justiceischeap]

3. It wasn't photographed by the initial coroner on scene because his batteries were dead

Just FYI, my hobby is photography and I always have a fresh battery (and my living and crime scene integrity doesn't rely on it). There was a second coroner (St. Louis County, I believe) who finally photographed the scene. I suspect this is why Brown's body really lay out there so long. They were waiting for the St. Louis County coroner to come with his camera to photograph the scene.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. I've never seen even an old Perry Mason

show from the 50s where Lt Tragg didn't have that done 60 years ago

shell casings, blood splats,
body positions and so on and so on

Corrupt procedures...purposefully inept. to get the outcome they wanted.

[Strelnikov_]

85. Pretty clear diagram in the Post Dispatch of the crime scene

That definitively makes Wilson's testimony suspect.

For one, the body ended up 150' plus from the prowler.

For two, the body ended up just slightly closer to the cruiser than all but two of the shell casings.

So, if he was waiting for backup/fearing for his life, why was he 150'+from his prowler.

My opinion of the event:

1) Barney Fife, calls the perp over.

2) In ensuing discussion with perp, Barney draws gun.

3) Scuffle ensues as perp unlawfully defends himself from Barney from being executed for jaywalking. A couple of shots are discharged.

4) Perp breaks and runs. Barney pursues perp, starts throwing shots at fleeing perp.

5) When perp, possibly after being struck in arm by one of Barney's shots, stops, turns around.

6) Barney continues to shoot. Perp walks toward Barney making suspicious gestures because he is a demon . . . or just maybe . . . because he is being shot.

7) Support shows up, realizes that they never should of let Barney take the bullet out of his pocket, coverup begins (ergo no statement, no pictures, no shooting report filed by Barney, etc. etc. etc. etc.).

Now, does this rise to Barney being charged with homicide. Doubtful. On the other hand . . . this absolutely rises to Barney being fired, charged with something that will prevent him from ever being a cop again, and making a huge payout to the family. It was incompetence beyond belief, enabled by the latent racism evident in law enforcement today.

It was a bad shoot.

Made criminal IMHO by the way it was subsequently handled by authorities. The same way they handle virtually all shootings of persons of color, and persons of non-color on the 'wrong side' of the economic divide.

[pipoman]

4. I believe it is completely irrelevant and would have no impact

In the case...Justifiable homicide is the killing of one person by another that is committed without malice or criminal intent. When a person commits a justifiable homicide they are not guilty of a criminal offense. Homicide can be considered justifiable homicide if it is committed in self defense, the defense of others, while trying to prevent of serious crime, and in the line of duty. Capital punishment is also considered justifiable homicide. Preventing a prisoner from fleeing by means of deadly force may also be considered justifiable homicide.

[dsc]

10. actually SCOTUS in 85 said that no you can't shoot fleeing suspects

[IdaBriggs]

26. Are you implying Ferguson police should be abiding by 20th century law?

[XemaSab]

93. That's not what they said

They said you can shoot fleeing suspects IN SOME CASES.

[Garion_55]

19. it can in certain circumstances

a cop by law is only allowed to shoot at a fleeing person if the cop believes that innocent people will be hurt or killed if he doesnt put down the suspect.

shooting at a fleeing suspect also puts innocents at risk by the cops so they are only allowed under certain conditions.

[Indydem]

5. You should read up a bit on Wecht.

I wouldn't use his insane ass to prop up my case.

The guy is a corrupt loon.

[ncjustice80]

67. Cite sources.

Everything he says confirms the majority opinion here tjat this was a conspiracy undertaken to cover up Michael Browns execution by Wilson, a KKK member. How many other members of Ferguson PD are also secret hood wearers????

[Indydem]

77. Just read his Wikipedia.

That will get you started.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

84. His wikipedia is very impressive

I've always found Wecht impressive if a bit controversial. I found nothing in his wikipedia that justifies you calling him either corrupt or a loon. Perhaps you didn't read it close enough, such as the fact Wecht, a good democrat was the target of political hatchet jobs.

Regarding the Allegheny County criminal trial against him for which he was fully acquitted:

:...The original judge at trial was censured by a judge's panel and some findings vacated due to judicial misconduct.[25] Wecht's attorneys alleged that he was a victim of a political conspiracy.[26]..."

The federal criminal trial resulted in all charges being dismissed:

"...Public concerns were raised about the motivation and conduct of the prosecution before and after the trial.[29][30] Speculation arose that the prosecution of Wecht was politically motivated. Attorney General and Governor of Pennsylvania Dick Thornburgh, a defense lawyer for Wecht, testified before a house panel investigating the US Attorneys' Firing Scandal that Wecht was targeted politically.[31][32]

Representative Mike Doyle and Representative John Conyers questioned the prosecution's tactics in the aftermath of the first trial and instituted Congressional hearings on the matter.[33] Op-eds in The Pittsburgh Post Gazette and the Pittsburgh Tribune Review called for dismissal of the proposed re-trial.[34] On April 12, 2008, 33 prominent leaders in the Pittsburgh community sent a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey and US Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan requesting that the prosecution dismiss the indictment against Wecht. Shortly after the press release of this letter, Senator Arlen Specter publicly recommended against a retrial for Wecht.[35] Former jurors stated to the press that they believed that the prosecution had been politically motivated.[36]

On May 5, 2008, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) revealed that it initiated an investigation into the Wecht prosecution due to claims that the case was a "selective prosecution".[37]

On May 14, 2009, the trial judge in the retrial excluded most of the evidence against Wecht because it was seized under illegal and improperly executed search warrant.[38] On June 2, 2009, U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan announced that her office would file a motion to dismiss all charges against Wecht.[39] ..."

[Rex]

81. Oh he disagrees with the Warren Commission so therefore must be bad.

Some posters around here have a vested interest of always minimizing talk about the JFK assassination. Poor dears have no critical thinking skills.

Cyril Wecht has accolades from here to China, that some anonymous username on a forum says he is crazy means nothing. As if username has any kind of credentials compared to Wecht.

Chalk it up to some nobody username being extremely jealous of this man's career.

[ncjustice80]

89. Sounds like someone waa a Republikkkan plant.

Trying to diacredit Wecht. MIRT alert?

[robinlynne]

86. actually I think he is considered to be the best in the country, or one of.

[uponit7771]

6. THIS IS PIVOTAL!! Wilson "claims he never shot at Brown..FROM..the back after the FPD said he did!!!

...

The shooting at Brown from the back establishes that Wilson wanted to kill even while there was no danger present.

There are MANY more witness's that said Wilson shot at Brown .... FROM ...

[indivisibleman]

69. Wilson shot at Brown from the back

and hit him at least once. Probably one of the arm shots. This is what appears to have stopped him from running away and turning in an effort to stop the shooting. Brown put his hand up in surrender and then Wilson gunned him down. Plain and simple.
Can you point me to where the FPD said he did shoot at him from the back. I will have to check my records on this and see if I have a quote on this.
Thanks.

[azmom]

76. The forensics show that he did

Walk back towards the officer. I'm not sure how many feet. Is this correct?

[azmom]

87. I found it 21 feet

I guess the question is, was he walking back surrendering, or stumbling after being shot? Maybe both?

[indivisibleman]

92. Eyewitnesses report him stopping and turning and then walking back towardt he officer briefly

before he fell forward and was shot in the top of the head by Wilson. A plain execution. There was no reason for him to fear for his life at this point. As I understand it he was something like 130 feet or more from the vehicle.

[seveneyes]

8. A conspiracy is unlikely

Bad things happen when one or more parties become enraged and inflict harm upon others. This one tragedy does not need any more fuel added to the fire already tended by those with a desire for more heat than light.

You can not take an already poorly handled case and make it better by even more poor handling.

[justiceischeap]

14. One only has to open their eyes to see there was no conspiracy here

but a poorly run investigation and a poorly run grand jury. There isn't a tinfoil hat in sight but a bunch of willful ignorance is plainly on display.

[heaven05]

80. you're right there IS

a lot of willful ignorance obfuscation to exonerate wilsonthepig. I couldn't agree with you more.

[lovemydog]

32. I don't think Brown was enraged.

I think he was scared.

Should all killings be handled in this manner: 'hey, people got enraged but whatever?

The desire is not to make things worse. The desire is to make things better by improving a system that needs fixing. Some people seeing or taking part in these peaceful protests will go on and do things to improve the system. Kind of like the many people who grew stronger and improved things during the civil rights movement in the 1960's.

[uponit7771]

9. Does anyone have a reference to Drs Baden and Wechts statement about exit wound in Browns arm?!

... seems like that's a smoking gun no?

[justiceischeap]

12. I posted the Wecht video

and here's the press conference from the Baden autopsy--it's right towards the end.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/videos/video-michael-brown-independent-autopsy-results/html_aab7998b-5dad-533f-9b94-c778bc313f34.html

Here's the diagram. The wound in question is the one on his arm by his hip. Baden's assistant states three possible ways that wound could have occurred, one of which is from Brown walking away, the other with his hands raised and the last if he's shielding his body.

[BlueStreak]

50. The kill shot must have either been the neck or the eye

And the kill shot must have been from that group of 10 shots. I don't see how the officer could have put another 5 shots into the FRONT of the body AFTER the kill shot. Maybe 1 or 2 as he was falling, but not all of those other shots.

Therefore, it seems most likely that Brown was still continuing toward the officer after being hit several times.

I have always found much more troubling that gunning down Kajieme Powell. That was a clear cut case where he was no mortal threat to the cops. There was absolutely no reason to shoot him dead. But everybody focuses on Brown, who frankly, just isn't a very sympathetic character, IMHO.

[seabeyond]

55. pattern of shot, a couple up arm, to neck, to eye, to head shot. you can find him

finding the targets in the shot.

throwing out two or three while running, no ability to aim, frantic, frazzled, a need to kill, a moving target,... very hard ot be accurate.

[BlueStreak]

64. I don't think any of those shots could have been while running

As you say, it appears that the shots are all practically in line with one another, other than the shot to the left arm.

I think there "could" be an argument that the shots that missed and the shot to the left arm were while running -- except for the audio tape. The 10 shots on that tape are in rapid succession with only a short pause between two groups.

It seems the only argument against the officer that fits the evidence would have to be that he was running after Brown firing several shots, one of which struck Brown's left arm from behind. At that point, brown turned to face the officer. While facing the officer, Brown took several non-lethal shots before receiving the kill shot -- all while still facing the officer.

That doesn't prove that Brown charged the officer, but the pause in the shooting is consistent with Brown turning to face the officer. Was there enough time in that short pause for Brown to clear start rushing the cop and for the cop to recognize and react? I don't know. It is certainly plausible and apparently some witnesses say that is exactly what happened.

[seabeyond]

65. what person would get an eyeball shot, then put their head down to charge. fuckin stupid.

hat makes sense, is getting an eyeball shot, and dropping head, as dropping down to ground, then wilson gets his head shot.

i want to trial, to see if that is the sense that would be made. or really, ... brown so awesome, he gets an eyeball shot and keeps on coming. bullshit.

and btw... i agree with you, lol

[heaven05]

11. some of the people

responding to this OP? Unfuckingbelievable!!!! It was an execution, pure and simple without the willfully ignorant comments displayed.

[phil89]

31. Evidence doesn't support that claim

maling baseless assertions like "this was an execution" is just inflammatory.

[heaven05]

35. right

Supporting an execution is inflammatory. Supporting evidence contrived and evidence coverup is inflammatory. Shooting and killing an unarmed kid is inflammatory. The willful ignorance and acceptance of the obvious murder of Michael Brown is inflammatory. You are on VERY shaky moral standing. Extremely shaky. But I expect that from the 'privileged' present. Don't want to lose that do we???

[noiretextatique]

72. no, shooting unarmed black teenagers is inflammatory

to hell with everyone who condones murder.

[Thespian2]

13. Wilson got all the help he needed.

His supervisor never wrote any notes or made Wilson write an immediate report. Important to give Wilson a month with his attorney to concoct a bizarre "account" of what Wilson needed to say.

The prosecutor was Wilson's defence attorney. He never intended to get a true bill.

The mishandling of the grand jury could not have been staged better.

Riots were helped by the police. Consider the 8 pm announcement of verdict.

Anyone who has watched the videos and followed the trial knows that Darren Wilson was pissed off at the two black bastards who didn't respect his authority. He was not afraid of Brown. He wanted to kill him. Otherwise, he would never have chased him, shooting him until he was dead.

I truly hope the prosecutor and Wilson get what is coming to them...Hell on earth. May they never breathe another peaceful breath.

[Indydem]

15. Not a one of your assertions is supported by facts.

Only your desires and intentions laid on others.

What you are doing is perpetuating lies and myths in absolute disregard for the facts.

[Thespian2]

18. Upon

What do you base your criticism? That you support the murder of a black person by a cop? If you don't know the facts you have not read the transcript or watched any of the video and do not comprehend the lies uttered by Wilson.

Thank you for your criticism, which proves my point.

[heaven05]

37. "the facts" were fictions

or obfuscations and outright support of all wilsonthepig stated and complete disregard for witnesses on the scene who said it was an execution, which it was. Actually the wilsonthepig supporters are really an insult to decent americans. A total insult, disgraceful, shameful, an egregious affront, outrageous and shows a complete contempt for the truth and Michael Browns right to the vaunted 'due process' which in this case came out the business end of a weapon held by the cowardly murderer/executioner wilsonthepig.

[ReRe]

39. Hogwash

We don't even know all the facts and never will, because so much of the evidence was not collected or at best botched. You can't honestly say the trajectory of the bullet wounds does not tell a story.

[rhett o rick]

43. It's easy for you to point at a poster and claim they are misleading, but quite another

for you to prove it. Give us your take.

[jeff47]

54. Yes, they conflict with what Fox News tells us, so they must be wrong. (nt)

[madville]

16. Could some have been warning shots?

If he did shoot while Brown was running away and didn't hit him is it possible that those were warning shots in an attempt to scare Brown and stop him from running away?

I've seen a bunch of people here advocate that warning shots should not be illegal after the case with the woman down here in Florida (she plea bargained to three years in prison recently instead of going to trial).

[justiceischeap]

20. As far as I know, police are not trained to fire warning shots

and the idea that Wilson fired warning shots has never been raised (I would think it would be better for Wilson to claim some were indeed warning shots--makes him look more sympathetic). No, I believe his adrenaline was pumping and he missed his target several times.

[madville]

25. Who knows

I would hope they aren't trained to shoot unarmed teenagers either but apparently training can go out the window when the adrenaline dumps into the bloodstream.

[helpmetohelpyou]

27. You're right they are not trained to fire warning shots due to a bullet ricochet

or if they fire in the air where the bullet might land when it comes down.
It would be dangerous to do especially in a city environment where there could be other bystanders


When they fire their gun they have already decided deadly force is authorized

[True Earthling]

17. Wilson did not fire his gun as he was chasing Michael Brown

according to these witnesses...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025876632

“After he took off running, I was watching the police officer get out of the car. He got out of the car and closed the door and he started running after that guy”

“He had his gun drawn and it’s down to his side”

(When you see him running is he firing the weapon at that time?) “No, he couldn’t” “He didn’t start, I didn’t see him fire, didn’t hear the gunshots until later”

“I didn’t hear any of the gunshots until he started running”

(OK. When he started running toward the officer) “Uh-Huh”

“the officer hopped out of his cruiser and chased him down canfield. They got like right about here and then Michael turned around and charged toward the officer and the police officer drew his gun and he was like stop, stop, stop and he shot him”

“he did not fire at Michael while he was running from him”

(okay. So when did you see the officer’s gun?) “I seen the officer’s gun when Michael turned around and was charging at him”

(so he didn’t pull his gun out of the holster until Michael Brown started to charge him?) “Charge him, right”

“I heard him yell stop at least three times”

(he did not have his gun out as he was yelling stop?) “No”

“and starts to run towards the officer and the officer drew his gun and he pointed it at him and he was like stop, stop, stop. And he was going in reverse, like backing up” (the officer backing up?) “yes”

“and he was charging towards the officer with his hands drawn up like this in a fist running towards him”

“He was like stop. He was backing up, he was like stop and he didn’t, so he shot him three times”

[justiceischeap]

21. This audio, which has been confirmed as authentic

Doesn't prove whether or not the gun was pulled but it does bring into question the sequence of shots.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/audio-gunshots-taken-time-michael-brown-shooting-glide-n191371

[True Earthling]

28. I listened to the recording several times and counted 10 shots

But it didn't record the first 2 shots. Those shots happened before Wilson got out of his SUV. If those 2 shots were on the recording it would be easy to tell if Wilson was firing while running. Unfortunately this recording won't answer that question IMO.

[True Earthling]

34. There appears to be 4 secs of silence from when the recording starts until you hear the 1st gunshot

So that's at least 4 secs between the 1st two shots and the volley of ten shots where Wilson was NOT firing his gun. Maybe the FBI can amplify it or perform a sound analysis to pick up voices in those 4 secs that would verify if Wilson was yelling "stop stop, stop" or "get down" as the witnesses stated.

[deist99]

23. pages

Can you tell me on what pages of the grand jury transcripts that those statements are on? Thanks.

[True Earthling]

24. The 1st witness starts on 2091

The 2nd on 3436.

GJ transcript...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/11/24/ferguson-assets/grand-jury-testimony.pdf

[deist99]

29. Thanks

[heaven05]

44. These "witnesses" were the

ones needed to corroborate the wilsonthepig testimony, statement(s) made after a month of being able to shape the story. The 'witnesses' could be and more than likely ARE lying agents of the DA and or police. I don't buy 'truth' from any of these people. Michael Brown was executed. Period. The month long shaping of a defense given to wilsonthepig definitely gave 'the state' time to coach 'witnesses' in the testimony. People are not buying into this travesty because there are too many, "damn how is this possible" moments'. I don't give a damn about this running unarmed toward a gun BS. In Vietnam, I NEVER saw a person run openly toward the business end of a weapon. And everyone was armed. And everyone found cover if they weren't already hit. This 'testimony' is BULLSHIT. There are people out here who think constantly, can see through obvious BULLSHIT and know the truth of this situation. Others won't because they need to hold on to their.......

[True Earthling]

52. Grandmother and daughter are agents of the police or DA?

Seriously? They were on their way to drop something off to friends who live in the Canfield apts.

[heaven05]

57. They could be wrong also

go peddle your wilsonthepig love to someone else. Grandmother and daughter. Give me some more 'eyewitnesses' because you know nothing of the truth.

[True Earthling]

62. Right - they could be wrong

And all the other witnesses could be wrong as well. The grandmother and daughter had a pretty good view. Their van stopped about 20 ft from Wilson's SUV at the moment right after the first 2 shots when off and before Wilson got out of the SUV. They had an unobstructed view of the entire sequence of events. I read a lot of the GJ testimony.. did you? Most of the other witnesses had obstructed views or only saw part of the action. The grandmother and daughter's testimony was the most detailed description of all the testimony I read and it jived with the forensic/crime scene evidence. Sorry if this conflicts with your view but I respectfully disagree with your allegations.

[ncjustice80]

68. They are lying sacks of shit

Michael Brown was executed. The "grandmother and daughter" are obvious coached "witnesses" drummed up by the State to help in their coverup of Mike Browns blatant EXECUTION.

Go peddle your pig loving bullshit elsewhere.

[heaven05]

70. you must believe what

you must, I shall believe what I know is the truth. This was an execution by a racist cop who knew he would be protected and eventually exonerated. Went into hiding immediately. None of the normal procedures have been followed throughout this case. To have a month to create witnesses and testimony with what ever legal coercion or leading questions that were allowed in THIS grand jury, or sweetners, is not normal. To allow wilsonthepig a month of coaching and developing a narrative, unconscionable. Right after the murder he should have been told to write a report. Nope. Never did, until he went into hiding and got the proper coaching. Look here, I know that for some on here they believe that 'demon' story because it fits the fears they may have about black people, males in particular and that I will NEVER be able to change that ancient hate of white against black. I, without any doubt whatsoever, feel it was racist murder and I totally disagree with all the wilsonthepig lovers here and elsewhere. I will NEVER change that, contrived evidence or not. More than likely contrived given the racist nature of the town and it's policing MO.

[NV Whino]

71. There were two shots fired at the site of the car

So Wilson then holstered his gun, ran after Brown and then unholstered his gun (again) and fired off the last volley. Makes perfect sense. Not.

[A Simple Game]

73. You can believe one of those witnesses if you wish, but you can't believe both.

They contradict each other about when the gun was drawn.

Worthless witnesses, the defense, yes defense, shouldn't have had both on the stand.

[maced666]

22. It was the insistence that he was shot in the back, now backtracking that is the problem.

...The video of Brown robbing the store came out - blame officials for releasing video instead of addressing the content - he robbed the store.
All the misinformation provided as fact - day after day.
On knees hands in air executed with rear shot to head - that was the story the first week after - until forensic results came in.
No wonder people on both sides are stumbling, the misinformation was rampant. Yet people dug in heels based on flimsy information. Ridiculous.
Hope the next few days clears some heads.

[seabeyond]

30. on knees shot in back of head. bullshit. i never heard this garbage. talk about

"All the misinformation provided as fact"

and i NEVER heard that he was shot in the back. shot at. ya. not hit. the guy has piss poor aim and took 14 shots to hit him 6 times.

facts? show me where on person, the first day, the first week said he was on knees with back of the head shot.

[True Earthling]

36. There was one witness in the GJ transcript who said Michael Brown was on his knees

when Wilson shot him in the head "point blank" as I recall.

[seabeyond]

40. ya. and woud that not be interesting to explore, as wilson got shot in the eye, dropped to knees,

head bent, then shot in head.

so what?

that is not wilson getting on his knees, hands up, before any bullets hitting him

hence the NEED for a fucking trial, to be able to piece this shit together. that is what we do in our justice system.

instead we had this faux mock trial with the Gj, and that is not the purpose of a GJ.

and that still is not on knees, hands up, bullet in back of head like execution, which the poster insists was the story. not to mention his other bullshit accusations. but thank you, for in a subtle manner, supporting that crap as you have so consistently been doing.

your insistence, 4 witness with differing stories from 8, makes it a win for wilson is so damn tiring and insulting.

[seabeyond]

42. i mean. the man is falling to the ground, DYING.... before the head shot, and that is really

support for an accusation that people were saying he was on knees, hands up, nad got a shot in back of head with an execution shot.

i had to come back in and ask. is this REALLY what you are supporting.

[True Earthling]

46. I'm not supporting anything. I was just pointing out how that rumor or allegation

may have started. The witness who said that in the GJ transcript probably stated it public at some point and then the story got twisted in the re-telling.

[seabeyond]

47. now PROVE to me that rumor is even there. cause i fuckin never heard that rumor, and that is what i

went after.

i am challenging that poster, that is accusing du? that we said a whole bunch of bogus shit, that we in fact did NOT say a whole bunch of bogus stuff.

then you come in and say, well well well, there was one witness to say he dropped to his knees before head shot, after the eyeball shot (well duh, i am sure he dropped to his knees, not able to continue standing with an eyeball shot) as he was dying.

so fuckin what.

go back to the original post i responded to. i was calling that crap out. you know. the crap that dismisses anything that is not a cheer and toast to wilson.

[seabeyond]

59. ok. whether the eyeball shot caused him to fal to the knees, or the neck shot caused him to fall to

his knees can be told in the trial. but that is what a trial would be for.

i am challenging the bullshit the poster stated, that was about dismissing anything supporters of browns said, by creating falsehoods.

[heaven05]

60. sorry we're

basically on the same page, I just misunderstood your response to the other poster. This whole case has been so muddied by lies and obfuscation by the witnesses and DA, not to mention wilsonthepig that the truth will only be known by those who have faced this kind of execution.

[justiceischeap]

61. I think there are two people that know the truth and it depends on whose truth you believe

There's Dorian Johnson whose story has never, ever changed.
Then there's Darren Wilson, whose story has changed depending upon which way the wind blows.

I'm sticking with the consistent story.

[True Earthling]

58. I didn't know if the rumor was posted on DU or not.

I'm not here every day but I can say that I've never seen that allegation on DU.. so yes I agree that it's bogus as far as I know. I was just pointing out the origin if in fact someone did post it previously. Sorry for the confusion.

[heaven05]

49. he was shot in the FACE

while on his knees going down to the ground after already being shot. How is all this obfuscation possible? Where is the conscience here?

[seabeyond]

53. totally disgusted. i saw the shot pattern. totally made sense, forensically to me

wilson traveling his shot to a head shot. shoot someone in the eye, they are gonna drop their head, allowing an easy top of the head shot.

hmmm. suggesting a person gets shot in the eye, then puts head down to run after cop. ya. fuckin makes sense, i say in mean snark.

shoot in eye, ... drop head, go to knees, on the way to ground. finish off top of head.

what fuckin makes more sense

i am so fuckin tire of the overt and silent racism and hate.

[indivisibleman]

66. You are absolutely correct.

What is going on is a lot of kicking up of dust to utterly confuse the public as to the facts.
I knew this was going to happen so I quickly collected all the main statements that were made in the first week or so of the murder. Before anything got scrubbed or became difficult to find.
The eyewitness testimony held solid as to Wilson's actions during the event. The Wilson supporters were the ones who constantly got their story wrong and could be seen to be making things up. The multitude of BS out there now has utterly tainted the case plus the intentional negligence of the police in gathering forensic evidence at the crime scene.
One thing that really bothers me is all the statements that all the bullets entered from the front. a person's arms don't remain in one position while running as if we all go around like we are laying on an autopsy table. I have yet to read about someone pointing this out and it is very frustrating.

[XemaSab]

94. Posted on August 11 on Kos

#t=20

[helpmetohelpyou]

41. What the prosecutor did is he gave interviews to the grand jury which he knew

Last edited Thu Nov 27, 2014, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)

were false in order to discredit and confuse .
He could have discounted some of the so called 60 or so eyewitnesses but he didn't

After one interview he said the person admitted he really didn't see the shooting
but he still included it in the 1000 pages

He really didn't see want to see Wilson charged , I'm not saying he wouldn't charge a dirty
cop if he found out but what I am saying is he thought and believed what Wilson told him.

[indivisibleman]

63. I documented all the initial statements in the first week of this event.

and not once did anyone say there was an execution shot to the rear of Brown's head. That is total BS.

[heaven05]

78. no it was not from the rear

it was in the top of his head as he was falling forward with multiple bullets already in his body

[noiretextatique]

74. the only "facts" that came out of this sham of an investigation

is the racism is alive and well in america and that to many people will believe anything to justify it.

[Rex]

83. So you invent your own fiction, way to go.

Seriously, you are so desperate it is sad to watch.

[csziggy]

88. Both Dorian Johnson and the woman in the car behind Wilson's SUV said

That as Brown was running away, Wilson shot at him. Brown jerked "as if he was hit" then turned and put his hands up (or out) - this is in Tiffany Mitchell's interview with Lawrence O'Donnell and is repeated after Bill O'Reilly tried to twist her words to claim Brown was shot in her back. See the "08.18.2014 9pm MSNBC Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell -Mitchell Accused of Lying" at the link below.

Tiffany Mitchell was very consistent with her statements about this. Dorian Johnson also said Brown jerked - but he was less careful about his claims. He thought Brown had been shot in the back. He'd already seen blood on Brown's shirt after the first shot at the car.

Michael Brady (in his interview with Anderson Cooper) said he saw Brown falling forward with his hands at his belly, and Wilson was still shooting at Brown as he went down.

The witness videos are linked at this web site: http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/11/25/michael-brown-grand-jury-documents-ferguson/70098242/

[uponit7771]

90. +1

[Kilgore]

38. Not sure

Just looking at it only in the vacuum of expert witness opinion, and not trying to discount any of the horrific tragedy, this leaves me scratching my head.

Three experts, one from the County, one from Holders DOJ, and another from the family who performed independent autopsies all seem to pretty much all come up with the same conclusions.

Wecht does not agree and goes on TV. Considering a possible desire to get some face time for his institute and his books, it makes me wonder about his motives.

I know this line of thinking will inflame and offend some, but I am just looking at it objectively.

Have my asbestos underpants on and ready for flames.

[GoneFishin]

45. Objectivity is good. My position is that Mike Brown had no reason to turn around unless

he was being shot at. That is consistent with some witness statements.

Some may offer the implausible argument that even though the coward unloaded 12 shots at an unarmed individual he would never ever shoot him in the back. I will never buy it.

Once Brown decided to flee he had to have a reason to turn around besides whimsy. And that reason was that he was being shot at.

[heaven05]

56. Holder's did say

MB was shot from the back, the eyeball shot was as MB was falling from the other bullets in his body. geez.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. The evidence presented before the grand jury is tainted. I don't believe shit!

[Hoyt]

75. There really is a lot of misinformation. There were several reports Tues/Wed that Wilson fired

3 shots chasing Brown (presumably from the back unless Brown was running backwards.

Here's one from Newsweek --

http://www.newsweek.com/darren-wilsons-grand-jury-testimony-286908

"Following this altercation, 12 shots were fired (the gun holds a maximum of 13 and one bullet was later confirmed to be in the weapon following the incident). Wilson said two shots were fired in his car, then three more as he chased Brown." 11/25/2014

I got caught using that, since it was on several websites, but apparently it is not verified. I still bet there were shots toward Brown's back, but I can't prove it.

[heaven05]

79. of course there

were shots from the rear, the racist clown was intent on murdering a black "demon" that day. Demon is wilsonthepigs word.

[aquabuddha]

82. Wilson basically admitted to be guilty by admitting Brown ran off

For starters, once Brown started to run away he was no longer a direct threat to the officer. Wilson claims he did not shot Brown while he was running, but we know that Brown was shot 4 times prior to running. The additional bullets were not fired until after he stopped. Brown was wounded and retreating. Again not a direct threat to the officer.

How many people with 4 bullet wounds will confront the shooter head on, after retreating? If Brown was acting like a "demon", why would he run away at all? Why not keep attacking the officer while he was in reach? Why run away some distance and then decide to attack the officer again (either 35 feet or 148 feet away)?

The only plausible explanation for Brown's behavior is if he was on PCD or some other hallucinogen drug. According to the toxicology report he was only found with traces of marijuana in his system. A drug that is only known to make a person mellow and not angry like a "demon."

Wilson's story is so illogical and so full of holes, it really does not matter if Brown handed off his cigars or not. It really does not matter what transpired in the police vehicle either. The only thing that matters is that once Brown started to retreat Wilson could not claim self-defense as a legitimate motive for the shooting.

[uponit7771]

91. ++++++BINGO+++++++!!!!!!!