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SpankMe

(2,956 posts)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:07 PM Nov 2014

Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

From: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/evangelicals-with-gay-children-challenging-church/ar-BBg4jLd?ocid=iehp

The article is about Evangelical Christian parents who put their 12 year old gay son into reparative therapy. The son didn't go straight, and eventually went heavy into drugs and died of an overdose at 17.

Now, the parents are gay-pride-wrist-band-wearing advocates of accepting gay children, and are trying to get the Evangelical movement to change. Their excuse is that they were "...so wrongly taught..." by the church. (So much for the conservative philosophy of personal responsibility and not blaming others for your problems or shortcomings.)

This pisses me of on so many levels, I don't know where to start. I feel miserable for the kid, but my anger drives me to the dishonorable feeling that the parents got what they deserved. Fuck those who won't empathize with something until it harms them.

It just frustrates me sleepless that you have people who go from hardcore "gay is evil" to "gay is great" literally overnight when *they* experience a tragedy related to their gay child.

I had one of these at work. Luckily, it wasn't a tragedy that changed the gun-worshiping moron into an advocate for gays. His teenage son merely came out of the closet to him one day, and by the following Monday, this ranting anti-gay piece of shit came to work wearing a small rainbow pin on his shirt. Because gay had suddenly become cool.

The previous year he spouted bible verses and and said that gay guys should have their balls cut off and shoved in their mouth. His beloved son comes out, and he's Harvey Milk all of a sudden.

I wonder how many kids he harmed emotionally before he had his come-to-Jesus moment? He probably promoted self-doubt and feelings of shame in his son and his son's friend for years. But, now, we should give him the benefit of our understanding? After the damage that he's likely done?

No. He doesn't deserve the privilege of wearing rainbow symbols or attending a colorful pride event with his son. (Yes, they went to L.A. Pride together in 2012.)

If anti-gay parents had been anti-gay activists before their children came out - or worse, died - then they aren't entitled to a "fabulous life" with their children after a gay revelation. At best they should abandon their anti-gay activities, remain quiet, restrained and neutral after the fact and should not benefit from the happiness of an openly gay child.

At worst, they should go to hell.

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Coventina

(27,057 posts)
2. Life is (hopefully) a growth process. I think you are being excessively negative.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:16 PM
Nov 2014

I agree with you, in many ways, but the change you speak of is a good thing.

Others in their circle will see their change of heart and perhaps begin to question their own beliefs.

And, if their change of heart is for real, they will have to face the guilt of their past actions and attitudes. They will not escape their karmic debt.

Edited to add: Keep in mind that for the gay child a parent's acceptance means so much. To continue to have and enjoy an open, loving relationship with their parents is a benefit for themselves and the entire family. I don't think saying "they don't deserve it" is of benefit to the gay child in that situation.

TlalocW

(15,373 posts)
3. I always put forth the argument
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Nov 2014

That if you're anti-gay due to religion, and your kid comes out gay, and you somehow still remain anti-gay like Phyllis Schaffly, then there are only 2 possibilities to explain your situation.

Either
1. Being gay is genetic, and you're not evolved enough to handle the truth
2. Being gay is not genetic, and that means that by your own standards, you are a shitty parent for letting your kids "turn gay"

Choose one and live with it.

TlalocW

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
4. It's hard to get through to people who are isolated and brainwashed.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:44 PM
Nov 2014

These people broke free of that, and now they're trying to wake up the rest of them.

This can only be a good thing.

William769

(55,142 posts)
5. Such a waste of someone special.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
Nov 2014

[center][/center]

"Ryan Robertson spent 6 years in “reparative therapy” after he came out to his parents as gay. His sexual orientation didn’t change, and he became addicted to drugs and eventually died of an overdose in 2009."


Johnyawl

(3,205 posts)
6. What an extraordinarily harsh, judgemental and hate filled attitude...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:58 PM
Nov 2014

...how hard it must be for you to live in a world were not everyone is born as enlightened as you. I would expect to see this kind of hate-filled narrow mindedness emanating from the far right, not from a left wing site.

For a great many people it takes a personal crises, or tragedy, to change deeply held beliefs. People who have been through such tragedy have helped to change the world and make it a better place. The redemption of such people is a central facet of Christianity.



If there is a hell, you will be in it.
 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
7. I hate responses like this. "If there is a hell, you will be in it."
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:08 PM
Nov 2014

Seriously?

You think you have the right to judge another DU'er and the pain they have gone through, and tell them if they don't send forth loving positive energy as opposed to "hate-filled narrow mindedness" then they should become Republicans?

Here is how it goes down in my eyes: people who screw other people over (like the parents in the story) get a pat on the back for "getting better" but still have to do the whole "regret, repent and repair" for the damage they've done to everyone else while they were getting to their "come to Jesus" moment. You spend YEARS torturing someone / destroying their self-esteem, you don't get to play "Paul" and everything is better now, because the ONLY PEOPLE who can offer forgiveness are the ones who have been WRONGED.

For anyone else to suggest "well, they said they were sorry, so quit being mean" when lives have been destroyed is gall beyond the pale.

I think you need to take a look at that log in your eye, because I found your reply to be (to quote you): "an extraordinarily harsh, judgmental and hate filled attitude..."



ON EDIT: If this gets alerted, and the original poster has made a change, please be aware that where ever you see a "quote" it comes from the poster to whom I am responding.

Johnyawl

(3,205 posts)
8. You don't appear to be any less hateful than the OP
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
Nov 2014

You have put a lot of words in my mouth to twist this around to support the hate-filled rant of the OP.

"...and tell them if they don't send forth loving positive energy as opposed to "hate-filled narrow mindedness" then they should become Republicans?"


"..well, they said they were sorry, so quit being mean" when lives have been destroyed is gall beyond the pale. "


Where did I say either of those things?

You seem to have the same attitude as the OP, that any change in a person brought about by tragedy is invalid, and they should suffer this new enlightenment in silence.

The attitudes about gays in this country has undergone a dramatic shift in the past 20 years, and much of that shift has come about because people who were once anti-gay had a personal come to god moment when their children/siblings/close friends came out of the closet. To disparage and attack those people as you and the OP have done is "...extraordinarily harsh, judgmental and hate filled". (to quote myself.)


And yes, I agree that my ending comment was angry, rude, unnecessary, and over the top. For that I apologize.

edited for spelling error.
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
11. LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:12 PM
Nov 2014

as their LGB peers who have supportive or neutral family lives. About 40% of the homeless youth are LGBT youth, their homeless rate is so high because of family rejection and frequent ejection of the kid from his or her own home by parents raving about their religion.
Now. You were saying that the extraordinary harsh and judgmental attitude that counts most is not what they did to their kids but the one in which others criticize them for harming their own offspring. I do not agree. I'd say the rejection of one's own children is extraordinarily harsh in a nearly incomparable way.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
13. I was QUOTING you.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:30 PM
Nov 2014
What an extraordinarily harsh, judgemental and hate filled attitude...

...how hard it must be for you to live in a world were not everyone is born as enlightened as you. I would expect to see this kind of hate-filled narrow mindedness emanating from the far right, not from a left wing site.

For a great many people it takes a personal crises, or tragedy, to change deeply held beliefs. People who have been through such tragedy have helped to change the world and make it a better place. The redemption of such people is a central facet of Christianity.



If there is a hell, you will be in it.


You started it as you ended it: Angry. Rude. Unnecessary. Over the top. You criticized the poster for having an extraordinarily harsh, judgemental and hate filled attitude to which I can only suggest you look in the mirror, told them they look like they have hate-filled narrow mindedness emanating from the far right as opposed to BELONGING on this site (where both of you have been members for YEARS) and then scolded them for not understanding that redemption of such people is a central facet of Christianity.

My "well, they said they were sorry, so quit being mean" was a definite paraphrase of your entire post, which you ACTUALLY had the nerve to end with telling the original, obviously wounded and upset poster If there is a hell, you will be in it. which personally offended me sixteen ways past Sunday.

The person you need to apologize to is the one you wronged - that would be the original poster. I suggest you either delete or edit your posts, and then I will do the same, because frankly, there really is nothing good in it At All.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
10. It is the church's fault. The church feeds on people's fear of eternal damnation.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:57 PM
Nov 2014

Eternal damnation is a pretty good motivator.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
12. WTF?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:25 PM
Nov 2014

It must be amazing to live an entire life without once ever having to say that I was wrong. It must be further amazing to never have to deal with any form of regret. I would wish that I could be so perfect as to never have made a mistake or exhibited regretful behavior.

It was horrible what happened to their child. It was horrible the people they were with the attitudes and beliefs they had. But if their eyes were opened by a tragedy, even one so terrible as this, and they now are preaching love, tolerance, and acceptance instead of intolerance and hate. I say welcome. They spent a lifetime being taught hate, a lifetime being taught intolerance, and now they have turned their backs on who they were. They changed a lifetime of experience.

It sounds so simply absurd when it's put forth that a co-worker had "his teenage son merely came out of the closet to him one day, and by the following Monday, this ranting anti-gay piece of shit came to work wearing a small rainbow pin on his shirt. Because gay had suddenly become cool." - because you were there when it happened. You were there for that conversation. You were there when that father had his epiphany. How long was the conversation when his son came out? How torn was the father before he realized that his thinking was wrong? How easy is it to admit to yourself that you were honestly wrong? That you were honestly a piece of shit? Good thing there is no such thing as guilt for this father to be saddled with.

And thank heavens, that no one here on this website is intolerant of other people. No one around here would ever tell people that they should be quiet, they should not share their life experiences, that they are unwelcome, or that they should go to hell.

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