almost 5k raised for man who confronted protestors in San Diego

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://www.youcaring.com/help-a-neighbor/help-tyree-landrum-give-his-kids-a-great-christmas/269547

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2853714/I-got-six-kids-feed-going-fired-Moment-angry-father-three-jobs-took-students-blocking-highway-Ferguson-protest.html'I got six kids to feed and you are going to get me fired': Moment an angry father with three jobs took on students who were blocking highway in Ferguson protest
Tyree Landrum was on his way to work during the San Diego rush hour
Group of around a dozen student protesters blocked the I-5 highway
He got out of the car and confronted them, saying he was going to be late
Then wrestled a bullhorn from one of the demonstrators on the road 
Other people angry at the delay also got out of their cars 
His reaction has gone viral - prompting support from people on Facebook 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

1. This person needs a history lesson

[GGJohn]

9. No, what he needs is to get to work so he can support his family, not having to wait

out a bunch of people blocking his way to work.

[yeoman6987]

57. What he needs is another donation from me

This guy is awesome! Needs to get to work to feed his family. God bless him and his family.

[840high]

112. He has my full admiration.

[Live and Learn]

2. The guy obviously doesn't understand that it is NOT okay that he needs 3 jobs

to support his family. Let alone, that someone would fire him for being stuck in traffic. He should be the first to understand why people are protesting.

[arcane1]

6. Unfortunately, you can't pay rent with understanding.

He's likely being paid by the hour, and even if he doesn't get fired he'll still lose badly-needed money. I'm sympathetic to him.

[Live and Learn]

10. I am sympathetic to him to. But there comes a time when society must stop

appeasing the corporatists and fight back. Getting angry at those that are fighting back is not the solution to his problems.

[arcane1]

14. Punishing low-wage earners isn't going to "fight back" against any corporatist.

No CEOs were harmed or inconvenienced by this, and they certainly haven't learned anything from it.

The burden is placed entirely on those who are desperate to make ends meet.

The protesters have a just cause, but this tactic won't win anyone over. Making broke people even more broke is not a solution.

[Live and Learn]

16. Well then here's an idea:

Don't fire him for being late when you know the freeway was blocked.

See, easy solution.

[arcane1]

17. The real world doesn't operate the way your fantasy does.

But please, dream on!

[SomethingFishy]

126. The "real world" LOL...

Your "real world" is a fucking racist cesspool, a corporate nightmare from which there is no awakening. A world where people profit off the sick and dying, a world that is being systematically destroyed by global warming. A world where you can get shot for reaching for your wallet because your skin is brown. A world where 85 people control more wealth than the bottom 25% of all people on the planet.
A world where bullies are made Captain of the football team and his victims are suspended from school. A world where the news media lies to you 24/7. A world where the head of a corporation makes 1000 times more money than the lowest paid employee.

Yeah, you can keep your "real world", and we'll keep fighting against it.

[Live and Learn]

138. +1 nt

[nomorenomore08]

199. +2

[Live and Learn]

139. Actually, it does. He didn't get fired.

But, I hate to ruin your nightmares.

[GGJohn]

18. Easier solution, don't block freeways causing working people to be late.

[Live and Learn]

140. And what does that solution provide exactly?

Making you happy is not a solution to the crisis.

[GGJohn]

212. Getting those that might be sympathetic to your cause pissed off at you isn't the solution either.

[backwoodsbob]

34. here's an idea

make life hard for those who deserve it.....not people who are trying to feed their families.
See...easy solution

[Live and Learn]

141. And exactly how would one go about that? How do you propose to stop

racism, police brutality and the corporate takeover of our media and politics? You didn't provide a tactic or a solution for anything.

[cherokeeprogressive]

169. What racism, police brutality, and corporate takeover was stopped on Interstate 5 the other day?

None.

[Live and Learn]

178. We'll see. It is after all just a start.

My guess is nothing from this one but you never know. Eventually something will stick.

[Wella]

30. In fact, spoiled college students punishing low-wage earners is a slap in the face to the worker

Yes, we know they're leaving college in tremendous debt. But the optics are really bad here.

[Live and Learn]

143. 'Spoiled college students'? Really??

Are you talking about the college students that are facing mounds of debt to pay for their education that will get them minimum wage jobs?

And here you had me fooled in to thinking that you were really interested in what was happening.

[Wella]

207. Did you read the entire post or just react to the title?

I did address the fact that they are in debt. Unfortunately, that's not how the optics will play out. It's a PR issue.

[LeftOfWest]

214. I read your post

Live and Learn is right.

[daleanime]

33. So name a way to fight back....

that won't hurt workers.


There is going to be pain no matter how you do it.

[arcane1]

38. People protest here on the side of the road all the time.

They get encouragement from passing motorists, and get their message across without pissing any of them off. So there's that.

Blocking traffic isn't the one and only way to protest something.

[daleanime]

40. And some like will change what needs to be changed?

It would be nice and I wish it would, but seeing how large scale peaceful protest are ignored by the MSM I don't think it will.

Do you?

[arcane1]

47. It won't. Not until it's big enough, anyway. Hell millions of us failed to stop Iraq.

But it certainly doesn't help when you're pissing off the very people you're trying to win over. The MSM sees these disruptions and paints the protesters in a negative light. What good is that?

[daleanime]

162. Do you think any thing we do against TPTB.....

would ever receive any kind of honest reporting in the MSM?




The best we can get right now is to be ignored.

[LanternWaste]

219. I imagine you were also concerned about negative PR and bad branding when the protesters in...

I imagine you were also concerned about negative PR and bad branding when the protesters in Tianamen Square blocked traffic in 1989-- civilian as well as military traffic.

How rude of them... "what good is that?"

(insert distinction without a difference below to better validate your inability to the history and mechanics of social change)

[arcane1]

223. How did that work out?

But don't let that stop you from baseless insults. It's not like we're supposed to be adults here.

[OnlinePoker]

117. How about block the entrance to the gated communities where the bosses live.

But of course, they won't do that because those will be the people who are hiring them down the road and it won't look good on the resume.

[Dr. Strange]

120. Or block the driveway to the Police Station.

[Live and Learn]

144. They have been doing that. Actually, the police in Ferguson did that themselves. nt

[Live and Learn]

145. Actually, it will just get you arrested quickly.

Didn't occupy try bringing the demonstrations to Wall Street? These tactics have all been tried.

And your resume quote makes me think you may be think you are being disingenuous.

[daleanime]

158. And of course no one goes in there to work....

no maids, no gardeners, no housekeepers, etc...what was I thinking?



And yeah, plenty of people won't do anything out of fear, that's understandable and I for one will not mock them for it. But death from a thousand cuts may not be as flashy as decapitation, it's still death.

[TheKentuckian]

80. Sure it will, one only must be relentless and single minded in pursuit of shutting down commerce.

Bring enough plagues and Pharaoh will be moved, you just have to heap them until the cries break his will.

At issue is of course the protesters lack the single mindedness and grit to do any such thing.

I think you also underestimate the hits one can apply from stopping or slowing traffic. Hell, rest assured that just one load not being where it needs to be it can kill a whole factory run costing hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars. A single load. Multiply that by thousands and you start to hit profits. You have lost all kinds of productivity too. Pile it up enough and there can be no short term recovery.

No, it can work just fine but it has to be bigger, more sustained, and steel willed.

[former9thward]

119. Did Martin Luther King ever block a freeway?

No, yet he accomplished 1000 times more than these 'protesters'.

[TheKentuckian]

132. I did not reference Dr King, I stated that the tactic could be effective for creating

pain for the ownership class if properly and single mindedly employed.

If you want to debate that then fine.

[former9thward]

154. Blocking a factory may be effective when workers are on strike.

If not on strike then it will inflame people who want to work. A more effective tactic is to sit-down and occupy a factory. This was done in 1937 in Flint as the UAW was being organized.

[TheKentuckian]

213. I did not speak to inflaming anyone or not, I said the tactic could be effective in creating pain

for the ownership class. If you wish to debate that then I'd be happy to discuss it.

I will say that I am not inclined to believe that any tactic that can generate consequences for the ownership class can be effective without also causing short term pain for the workers, minimizing disruption has no premium here in fact the objective is disruption until conditions change.

[Live and Learn]

190. Here he is blocking a highway.

[former9thward]

204. Actually no, it was a officially sanctioned march on a street.

Try again, I'm sure you will...

[Live and Learn]

205. Still blocking a highway and they marched down many streets not always

getting permits first. But you go ahead and keep on dissing protestors if it makes you feel superior.

[former9thward]

206. It was no more blocking a street than the Macy's parade in New York.

But try again...

[Live and Learn]

210. Already answered but keep posting away. nt

[snooper2]

220. have we learned anything from this thread yet

were you there?

[Live and Learn]

146. +1 nt

[KingCharlemagne]

151. Excellent observation(s). The protesters need to start thinking like capitalists (not behaving

like them) and go after the profitability of American business. The only thing the greedheads understand is the language of the almighty $ so, when corporate bottom lines start taking a hit, McCulloch will be out on his kiester faster than you can say "Corporatist."

[Thinkingabout]

68. Do you have a job? Why can't the protesters have a little understanding?

[Live and Learn]

71. Yes I do and I understand the protests as well.

If they make me late I will not be anymore upset than I am at the people involved in an accident or the road construction that make me late on occasion. I think of it as a worthy cause.

[Thinkingabout]

82. Where is you sympathy for those going to work, etc?

Did those going to work prevent you from protesting? Also, if you happened to be off from work does not mean everyone is off, becoming a nuisance is not going to get you sympathy.

[Live and Learn]

85. I never take the freeways since they are almost guaranteed to make one late.

Have you never been late to work for another reason? I'll take being late to work for a good cause over inaction any day.

[Thinkingabout]

91. Let's put it this way, I have never been late to work because of protesters on the

Freeway, sounds like the Bundy crap, there are lots of places to protest without impeding the freeway traffic and if I was to have sympathy is sure would not be with protesters in the freeway. Whatever cause you are trying to get attention I will be on the opposite side.

[Live and Learn]

92. If that is your criteria for picking sides, there really isn't much hope. nt

[Thinkingabout]

96. Now you are getting it.

[Live and Learn]

103. I always understood there wasn't much hope for some people. Glad to see

you admit it.

[Thinkingabout]

108. BTW, did you have $5000 donated to you today? if you did not perhaps you are on the wrong side.

[Live and Learn]

147. lol Now there is some convoluted thinking. nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

157. Officer Wilson got $400k. Winning!!!!! I oppose anarchy!!!!

[Journeyman]

7. Ah, spoken with all the resonance of someone with time to spend diddling on the internet . . .

[Live and Learn]

8. A fellow diddler I see. But you support his right to have to work 3 jobs

while you diddle?

[AgingAmerican]

69. He has a right to feed his kids

Even if you don't believe so

[Live and Learn]

72. Where did I say he didn't? nt

[AgingAmerican]

109. Pretty much from the top to the bottom of this thread

nt

[Live and Learn]

148. Nope, never did. Reading comprehension problem, perhaps? nt

[AgingAmerican]

196. It is implied

nt

[Live and Learn]

197. Oh, you are assuming. I was taught not to do that. nt

[JI7]

48. how do you know he doesn't understand that ?

[tammywammy]

51. +1

Frankly, I find the arrogance in this thread disheartening. Posters might as well just say he doesn't know what's good for him. Never one the fact that what he's thinking about is feeding his family and keeping the lights on. But that's okay, the protesters know what's best for him...he's obviously just too stupid to understand.

[840high]

202. +10

[Live and Learn]

56. Because he wouldn't be yelling at them if he did. nt

[JI7]

64. why ? I get angry or disagree over things people do

Even if I may agree with them on the issue.

[Live and Learn]

94. To get that upset by being late to work on one occasion in CA

really might require some anger management therapy.

[JI7]

99. No, just understanding lives of working people

[Live and Learn]

102. Funny, I am one of those and it doesn't upset me. nt

[snooper2]

221. do you make shoes?

[chrisa]

84. I don't think it'll matter what he should be doing when his family can't afford their food.

I also don't think being fired will make him more likely to support the protester's goals.

[Live and Learn]

87. Do you really believe the guys family is going to starve over this one incident?

Or are you just trying to stifle dissent?

[chrisa]

90. Yes. And I'm sure he won't exactly support the protests when he gets fired for being late

because a bunch of stupid college kids decided to go out and protest in the dumbest way possible. Someone who has to work 3 jobs likely needs every cent they can get. Screwing with workers' lives is the best way of stifling dissent - for your own cause. This is an ultimate act of assholery - it is in no way productive or useful.

[Live and Learn]

149. Let me relieve your worries then, He didn't get fired. Rest well. nt

[chrisa]

161. That doesn't make what they did ok. He could have been fired

Also, blocking people from getting to work is not ok. It's a horrible way to protest, and makes enemies, not friends.

[Live and Learn]

163. Your concerns have been duly noted and posted on frequently in this thread.

And answered I might add.

But feel free to keep at it.

[chrisa]

192. If you have to accuse someone of being a concern troll, you've already lost the argument.

Have a good night.

[Live and Learn]

195. Not accusing you of anything. Just noting that your concerns

have been posted and answered already.

[840high]

113. His boss understood.

[NashuaDW]

3. He doesn't need a 'history lesson'

He's simply doing what millions of other people are doing -- WHATEVER IT TAKES TO FEED THE FAMILY.

The strategy of screwing with people's day and livelihood is a losing one on all fronts. No one is going to come to your side because you annoy them to the point where they need to scream at you.

This guy lives in/around San Diego ... and has nothing to do with Missouri.

[noiretextatique]

5. there are ferguson protests all over the country

and the world.
and yes, he does need a history lesson. he has basic human rights today because of protests like this one. having said that, it is annoying to have to wait, especially when you have to be somewhere.

[Live and Learn]

11. If you think this is just about Missouri, you really don't get it. nt

[Wella]

28. What is it about if it's not about the Ferguson case?

That seems to be the raison d'etre for all of the protests.

[Live and Learn]

35. Inequity, in a nutshell. Both of the judicial and financial institutions.

Police brutality and the protection of corporate institutions is a byproduct of the former that is becoming more apparent and less palatable to the public.

[Wella]

36. Isn't that Occupy? If so, are these protests just a resurgence of Occupy?

And couldn't they have been done without burning down Ferguson?

[Live and Learn]

42. Occupy was just a beginning. This is another upstart. There will be more before

any change really occurs.

By the way, the reality of the protests have been covered by live streamers since the protest began and is the only way to view what really happened. The Ferguson protestors (those that live there and have been protesting) were not responsible for any of the fires or looting. In fact, some of the fires were caused by police and others by outsiders. A variety of people came to Ferguson including the Klan.

Here is good link to the protests by a live streamer (or ustreamer) who has followed the protests since the beginning. If you are really interested, you should go back in time a bit to view some of the older ones first.

http://www.ustream.tv/z?utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=ustre.am%2FHbME&utm_medium=social&utm_content=20141013140253

[Wella]

45. Do you have evidence that the police set the fires?

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. I am hoping that the one guy we were watching who got his camera stolen somehow

has recorded some of the footage. I saw (with my own eyes) a flash bang set off that first police car. The others? I'm not sure about, but that first fire was an accident on the part of the police.

[Live and Learn]

59. That was Bassem (who spent Thanksgiving in jail).

Here are his links:

https://twitter.com/bassem_masri/with_replies

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/54472018

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. You could see it (the police car) catch fire as they were setting them

off.

What was he arrested for? Having his camera stolen? That's utterly ridiculous.

[Live and Learn]

65. No, he was arrested later while in the back seat of a car for driving with a suspended license

which he denies. They have arrested him several time for the same warrants. Not sure why the warrants haven't been taken care of yet.

Of course the real reason he keeps getting arrested is because they don't like what he says and his videotaping.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. Yes. My question about the camera was tongue in cheek.

It's remains ridiculous that they hauled him in.

[Live and Learn]

54. I'll have to check on whether there is videotape of it but

according to those down there that witnessed the incidents, the police fired tear gas that started a fire on a cleaners and and a tear gas canister also started a fire when it was shot in to a police car. And, another police car was set on fire by a white guy with a flag bandana.

What I do know fro a fact is that the original protestors from Ferguson were on live stream at the time and were not responsible. If you watch the videos from the beginning, you actually get to know many of them.

[Wella]

62. I'm very interested in this

Also "the police" might be a handful of officers working for DHS.

[Live and Learn]

67. Then view the links I provided. Bassem's links (posted above) are good to view too.

[Wella]

208. Isn't Bassem a major anti-Semite, or have I been misinformed?

Saw that on the Facebook page of someone I trust.

[Live and Learn]

209. I think he just believes the Palestinians are being wronged.

Does that make him an anti-Semite?

[Wella]

211. No.

But sometimes there is a fine line. I don't want to get into it here because I think the moderators might lock the thread. I can understand their perspective.

[uppityperson]

88. The fact that he must work 3 jobs proves it has something to do with the inequality the protests are

about.

Why must he work 3 jobs to feed his family? Why are black children, young adults, being shot with impunity by cops?

[Live and Learn]

95. +1 nt

[nomorenomore08]

200. +2

[jillan]

4. I'd be mad too. Protest on the sides of the freeway entrances but no need to block

the roads.

[Live and Learn]

12. You mean protests where nobody will notice them?

Kind of like they did during the GOP convention, specific protesting locations. Better yet, why not just allow them to protest in a sound proof room?

Civil disobedience is just that disobedience not acquiescence.

[arcane1]

15. Now you're resorting to using rhetorical tricks to make their post seem absurd.

After all, every motorist on the freeway can see the shoulders. A long crowd of people would be quite noticeable!

Why are you trying to stifle discussion by using rhetorical tricks like reducto ad absurdum? We should be trying to cultivate discussion.

[Live and Learn]

19. The freeways in California are shut down all the time,

usually for accidents or just too much traffic. To pretend that these protests are really upsetting the balance of life in CA is ridiculous and not worthy of prolonged discussion.

And I wasn't being rhetorical. Those policies have actually been used for protestors.

And here is some good advice if you don't want to be late in CA. Don't take the freeways. I rarely take them. I drive over 30 miles to work and use streets because the freeways will almost assuredly make me late.

[G_j]

23. "if you don't want to be late in CA. Don't take the freeways"

[Hassin Bin Sober]

110. Agree. I want to yell at cops having their post accident coffee clutch after....

..... the ambulance go and the cars are cleaned up.

Or when they shut down Lake Shore Drive to let the sail boats pass under the bridge. Or shut down LSD for a marathon or "Bike The Drive"

Maybe DUers can send me money for my inconvenience.

Actually, the guy needs a battery/assault charge.

[Live and Learn]

134. No kidding. Anyone in CA that gets that pissed off at being stuck on a freeway

is headed for an early coronary.

[cherokeeprogressive]

179. I was born and raised in L.A. County, and have driven CA freeways for 37 years.

Let me say your post is five pounds of shit in a four pound bag.

[Live and Learn]

182. So that makes you an expert on "shit"? I'll take your word for it. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

184. Nope. What it does is qualifies me to tell the world post #19 is an overflowing bag of shit.

[Live and Learn]

188. Hard to argue with logic like that. Have a great day. nt

[jillan]

20. That's not what I'm saying. Protest were you can be seen but let people go on with their daily lives

People have busy lives and even tho they may support the protests 100% they still have to pick up the kids from the sitter at a certain time, go to work at a certain time, be home for their kids school bus at a certain time.... etc!

When I was younger, raising a family and working outside the home I didn't sit down from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. That doesn't mean I don't support protests - I do! And often get involved....
but don't get in the way of someone who needs to get to work. That's all I am saying.

[Live and Learn]

21. I think making people uncomfortable is the idea. You know,

No Justice, No Peace!

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. Except they are making the wrong people uncomfortable, sadly.

The ones we need to make uncomfortable over this simply aren't going to care about the suffering of the masses. Let them eat cake and all.

[Live and Learn]

31. Yes. it is unfortunate that those that suffer during unrest the most are the

members of the general population which is one reason why revolutions are so distasteful.

But when the government and judicial systems don't work to stop inequity there is little choice left. This is yet another wake up call to those institutions.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. They are not the ones who suffer the most. They are the only ones who suffer.

I fully support the laying down on the ground in shopping malls, the gathering in parks and other public spaces...

But this does not affect change. It affects the ability of the 99% to take care of their families and themselves.

While I would gladly idle away the entire day on a freeway in support (unless it was a family medical emergency; then I'm asking you to move or mowing you over), a good many people will not. And they will hate you for it. They won't suddenly change their minds and join you.

And the ones these freeway peeps are trying to catch the attention of? They don't care about you, me, or those people standing there.

[Live and Learn]

46. Well, I don't see it that way. And I have been stuck on the freeway often enough to

not get upset about it whatever the reason.

Getting attention is the only way to get the message out and unfortunately, the only way to get media attention these days seems to be just what the protestors are doing.

If you have better ideas, why not get them out there and start organizing. Just telling others that they are not doing it right is meaningless.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Possibly because you're here telling me this...

...

How about you do your life and your activism and I'll do mine? And we won't judge what the other does or doesn't do to be a good liberal protester based upon our mutual presence on a message board one Saturday.

[Live and Learn]

73. Didn't you question me first? I don't think I am the one judging.

I wish there were better ideas that would work. I just haven't seen any by those claiming the protestors tactics don't work.

[ScreamingMeemie]

77. I posted the other ideas, while not judging you but judging the idea

of making the public suffer over something they have no control over to win them over. It's never going to work.

Suggesting that I don't protest/participate in activism simply because we disagree is disingenuous, hence my comment to you.

Let's put it like this: I think it's an idea that will further enrage the public, including those who sympathize (people like my dad, a good Democratic voter who is disgusted by the GJ decision yet really super pissed off at these highway trotters).

You think it's a good idea. Neither of us is going to change our minds.

Simple as that.

[Live and Learn]

101. I don't think I suggested any such thing.

And I would be happy to read your ideas if you could kindly point me to them.

I just don't think that people should be so upset and judgmental about people that are trying there best to do something about the inequities. You don't have to join them on the freeways but do try to understand why they are doing what they are doing and offer up better solutions if you have some.

[ScreamingMeemie]

166. ...

"If you have better ideas, why not get them out there and start organizing. Just telling others that they are not doing it right is meaningless." And no, I'm not going to repeat myself. You can reread our exchange.

[Live and Learn]

172. I stand by that. I didn't accuse you of not participating in any

actions. In fact, I asked for your ideas. And I have agreed with many of your posts in the past.

I just don't think that judging and criticizing others actions is very helpful.

[Texasgal]

189. Word.

[FLPanhandle]

29. No, making people empathetic to the cause should be the idea

This does the opposite.

More Americans will relate to the this guy than the protesters.

[Live and Learn]

74. Deja vu? Didn't we just discuss this below? nt

[KingCharlemagne]

164. Hell, I'd wager that even today more Americans support

Wilson than think he should be on trial. (I have not seen any national polling around this issue, either before the GJ decision or since, so this is just an (un)educated guess on my part.)

[840high]

203. I did - that's why I donated to him.

[ChazII]

159. Afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. n/t

[FLPanhandle]

13. Based on opinions around my town, the protesters have lost most of the public sympathies.

This guy will resonate more with the average American than the protesters.

The only way to change minds to get people to emphasize with the cause, this type of protest just pisses people off.

[Live and Learn]

27. If your moniker is accurate, I sincerely doubt if most of the people in your town

ever had any sympathy. Am I wrong about that?

[FLPanhandle]

32. But these are the people that need to be convinced

I may be the rare liberal here, but these are not bad folks. Yes, they listen to FoxNews, but they can be convinced.

However, you don't win them over with riots, looting, blocking highways, etc.

You win them over by getting them to empathize with the cause. A protest with people holding up pictures of innocent and unarmed people killed by police would do much more to change hearts than blocking a highway.

[Live and Learn]

37. And how do you get them to empathize when they listen to corporate sponsored

television? You have to take it to the streets because the media has been bought and paid for.

[FLPanhandle]

43. You make the protest focus on changing minds.

Until the average American emotionally connects with the cause, it's doomed.

When Vietnam was going on, protests did little but harden opinions. When Time and Life started publishing pictures of the weekly dead and following ground troops day to day, the average Joe began to empathize. That is what put pressure on politicians.

The average American working to support his family will connect with this guy trying to get to work over the protesters.

Now, what's wrong with a mile long line of people holding pictures of slain victims silently by the road. THAT would resonate. That would change minds over time.

[Live and Learn]

49. They have done that. Exactly, how long are they supposed to wait for minds to change?

And where is Time and Life now?

I don't understand why people haven't awoken already. Why do they need minds changed? Why are they so blind to the inequities? I don't think they really are. It just makes them uncomfortable to acknowledge them.

[FLPanhandle]

58. It takes time.

Minds don't change overnight.

It takes persistence.

You say it's been done, where and for how long?

I live with and work with conservatives. They aren't bad people, they aren't KKK members, and they can be (have been) convinced by targeting their emotions, and they are quick to respond when you do. They aren't "uncomfortable", they want law and order and justice.

Right now, the protesters have lost the average Joe. You advocate actions that will not only turn them off the cause, but will make them actively against the cause.

[Live and Learn]

61. I am not advocating anything. I just understand why they are doing what they are doing.

You are advocating, waiting. Good luck with that.

[FLPanhandle]

66. You didn't answer my question.

When, where, and for how long has my approach been tried?

It's not about waiting, it's about being smart.

But go ahead with defending this traffic blocking approach and see how successful that is.

Good bye.

[Live and Learn]

70. The protests started with that approach and those approaches are still going on.

But it is obvious that you haven't heard about them because they do NOT draw attention.

Here are some links to help you out. You will need to start with the videos from months ago.

http://www.ustream.tv/z?utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=ustre.am%2FHbME&utm_medium=social&utm_content=20141013140253

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/54472018


They have been protesting this incident since Brown was shot.

You do realize that the Brown case is not an anomaly nor are the protests. Many cases have occurred and there have been many protests with little attention. This one has just taken off.

[FLPanhandle]

86. We may disagree on approach.

However, I think we want the same thing.

I don't believe any approach that alienates the very people you need to make change happen is anything but self-defeating, no matter how much air time it gets.

Peace.

[Live and Learn]

89. Like I said, if there are better ideas out there, I'd be happy to hear them.

But I do think people have tried many approaches with little success and I understand there frustration.

[FLPanhandle]

100. I posted other ideas

Like I said, hold signs along the highway showing pictures of innocent people killed.

Do it everyday, peacefully and without disrupting people trying to support their families.

It may not make headlines, but it will change peoples minds who see it everyday.

Not splashy, not CNN worthy, but far more effective than what these people did.

[Live and Learn]

104. And I told you those had been tried. They don't work. Period.

Any other ideas?

[FLPanhandle]

115. You don't want any ideas apparently.

You just want to shoot ideas posted here down and agree with dumb tactics.

Fine.

[Live and Learn]

122. Once again, they tried those tactics. They don't work.

I am looking for new ideas. Apparently, you don't have any.

By the way, I never said I agreed with the tactic and never will you find me blocking a freeway. I just said I understand why they are doing what they are doing. I would much prefer some better tactics but admit I don't have any and I haven't seen any posted either.

[Live and Learn]

106. By the way, you might be interested to know that they are

doing a march to the state capital. I think you will approve of that tactic.

[MadDAsHell]

22. If the message is that important...

...people will listen. If you have to block an entire freeway to get people to listen, your argument starts to look pretty unimportant.

1960's sit-ins were effective and only had to inconvenience the bigoted entities engaging in discriminatory practices, so you were less likely to lose public support.

Are we that bad at creating change in 2014 that we have to inconvenience EVERYBODY to make a point?

[840high]

116. ...^ that

[Live and Learn]

123. So you don't think the message is important?

Because people sure the heck haven't been listening, thus far.

[MadDAsHell]

216. I agree people haven't been listening...but that's our fault.

I feel like this is the midterms all over again, where instead of saying "How is our messaging wrong/ineffective?" we just call everybody "fucking idiots" for voting for the other side.

What does that accomplish?

[Ykcutnek]

24. Eric Garner had 5 or 6 kids to feed.

But the police choked him to death.

He'll never work again. And their life will be even more difficult.

But let's make this man the face of injustice.

And... he's black! A perfect token for white conservatives to hit activists over the head with.

[Live and Learn]

25. +1 nt

[GGJohn]

41. Do you really think the average person, trying to get to work, give a damn about Eric Garner?

No, what they care about is getting to work on time, being able to put food on the table for their family, keeping a roof over their heads, putting clothes on the kids backs, paying the utility bills, etc.
Blocking a freeway and pissing off the average person is not the way to garner sympathy for the inequalities in society.

[yeoman6987]

63. Blocking a highway does more bad then good

Eric Garner is not a factor in this at all. Why you spent two replies saying so is not going to change that. It is all about Ferguson and only Ferguson. Blocking a highway....good grief. Very lucky nobody got killed. Lets stop cars going 80 down the road......

[Live and Learn]

75. It is not all about Ferguson. I can't believe you don't understand that.

Or maybe you are just choosing not to acknowledge it?

[Live and Learn]

76. I don't think anything will change the mind of some people. nt

[LostInAnomie]

44. These interstate blocking protests are self-defeating idiocy.

The only people that are sympathetic to them are people that are already convinced. Everyone else is turned off by them.

Why would anyone listen to protesters that are going out of your way to fuck with their lives?

[Live and Learn]

79. And what do you suggest would be abetter alternative?

Please give me something that hasn't already been tried.

Do you also acknowledge that there are many that are unsympathetic and will never be convinced probably because they think they are benefiting from the inequities? What about those that "fuck" with peoples lives by shooting their kids? Any sympathy for them?

[brooklynite]

53. I'm confused -- I thought the protest was against police violence?

Why are people suggesting it has anything to do with corporations and the economy?

[Live and Learn]

81. Really??? You seriously don't get it?

I find that hard to believe.

[JI7]

121. is the guy in the open part of the 1 percent

[Live and Learn]

130. Maybe, if he can afford 6 children in California.

And why is he taking up three jobs when a hell of a lot of people here can't get one?

See how that works?

[chrisa]

83. What a dumb way to protest

Stand on the side of the road. Don't provoke people who are trying to get to work. That's just being an ass.

[petronius]

93. Here's how it works:

Step 1) Block traffic a 1000 miles from the scene of the crime, and interfere with the lives of 100s of innocent people

Step 2) ???

Step 3) JUSTICE!

[Scootaloo]

107. Protesting the murder of black people must be meek and polite and considerate at all times

[Live and Learn]

124. +1 Yep, and people will magically get it then.

And if it takes another 200 years, so be it.

[chrisa]

160. That's a strawman and false dilemma.

Just because you're not blocking traffic doesn't mean that you're being "meek." It's entirely possible to protest in thousands of other ways that don't get people fired and block traffic. On the other hand, being polite and considerate is a great way to get people on your side. Being annoying by blocking traffic is not going to win any supporters.

[Live and Learn]

165. There have been many different kind of protests.

Maybe you should focus on some of the others. They are now marching to the state capital. Perhaps you should focus on that one.

[chrisa]

167. This thread is about this protest, which is not a good way to protest.

Marching on the state capital is a good way to protest.

[Live and Learn]

173. Provided they stay on the sidewalk, right? nt

[Scootaloo]

187. No, it's exacly what's being expressed here

And if you have to ask nicely to get people on your side on the issue that killing black people is wrong, then you've fucking lost already.

This isn't protesting over a new sidewalk being installed in your favorite park, chrisa. it's protest over abuse of human lives.

My suggestion? Go out spend some time with the protestors. See what's going through their heads, hear their opinions and logic and arguments.

[chrisa]

193. Wouldn't inconveniencing the people who are actually abusing human rights make more sense?

In this case, wouldn't inconveniencing the police make sense? This accomplished nothing but pissing workers off.

[Iggo]

97. Did he get fired?

[840high]

118. No.

[Live and Learn]

125. Of course not. nt

[RandiFan1290]

98. This is how you block traffic!

How much did the whiners raise for these people?

[Live and Learn]

127. +1 nt

[Scootaloo]

105. Look at all these DU'ers missing the entire fucking point of protest

No doubt they think picket lines should break to let scabs through, too.

More evidence that for most of DU, liberalism is a fashion accessory

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

114. Are they democrats, they sure arent liberals...maybe this place is infested with rightwingers

who look for an excuse to oppose anything and everything liberal...just maybe

[ScreamingMeemie]

168. No one here gets to decide how liberal another person is. Sorry.

But that's ridiculous.

[cherokeeprogressive]

181. It never fails to warm my heart; seeing people who've been here FOUR DAYS judging DUers...

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

183. Lots of folk here defending Wilson, I dont consider a single one of them liberal

or opposing protest, nothing liberal about that...

I have noticed a group of people who wont come right out and defend him but that is what they are doing...

and anyone who doesnt understand the need for protest and that some problems come with it, are either ignorant of history or simply dont much care for protest in general..

[Live and Learn]

128. Exactly! nt

[petronius]

129. A picket line strikes directly at the problem though, doesn't it?

This protest doesn't.

You've got your "fashion accessory" charge backwards: when people are gung ho to 'do something' without introspection, reflection, a plan, or a legitimate claim of addressing the/any problem, perhaps they're the ones with the 'liberalism as a fashion accessory' mindset...

[Live and Learn]

131. This 'problem' isn't confined to one place. nt

[petronius]

135. And the protest in question doesn't strike at this problem, here, there, nor anywhere... (nt)

[Live and Learn]

137. Really? I got it. nt

[Scootaloo]

142. Not accordin to the logic expressed on this thread.

A picket line's function is to try to keep people from doing business with the place of work in question. That interferes with people's shopping and is an inconvenience, and as we see here, any protest that causes even slight inconvenience is WRONG. More, it seeks to prevent entry of scab workers hired to replace the striking workers- this denies people of needed work, and is again an inconvenience and is thus WRONG according to the logic on this thread.

because the logic of this thread is formed by a bunch of ignorant entitled people whose experience with protest is e-signing a MoveOn form letter in between handfuls of doritos while watching Bill Maher and feeling vaguely countercultural.

Sorry. The point of protest is not to stand back and not make a fuss or to be quiet and polite and avoid getting in someone's way. That sort of passivity is entirely COUNTER to the point of protest.

Also, do you think abuse of black communities is only a Ferguson problem? Your earlier post on the thread sure seems that way, and i think that' a good signifier that you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[petronius]

150. You need to reread this entire thread, then, including my posts, because you

have clearly failed to understand it. You might start by reconsidering your analogy of a strike/picket line targeting a business, and a freeway stoppage targeting -- what?

But at least you can proudly jangle your fashion accessory...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

153. If I were you I would right this injustice an picket the picketers. Here are some ideas:

[KingCharlemagne]

171. Oh, snap! - nt

[Scootaloo]

155. it wasn't an analogy.

i said that the same people bitching here would bitch about a picket line, for the same reasons.

The freeway stoppage forces the issue to be realized and confronted. You can't just zoom by and ignore the fact that black lives matter. Which is EXACTLY what you and many other posters here clearly want to do.

[ScreamingMeemie]

170. I have never eaten a Dorito in my life...

the only thing I've ever done for MoveOn is poll sit in 2004 (you can ask PassingFair)

I have pounded dozens and dozens and possibly high hundreds of miles of pavement for candidates and causes.

I am pretty dang sick and tired of the judgment here that goes on when people disagree.

Get over it, and cut it out.

[Live and Learn]

176. Now I am really confused. Who accused you of eating a Dorito?

Why am I missing all these supposed accusations?

[ScreamingMeemie]

177. Follow along.

I'm not going to hold your hand. Either discuss or don't.

"because the logic of this thread is formed by a bunch of ignorant entitled people whose experience with protest is e-signing a MoveOn form letter in between handfuls of doritos while watching Bill Maher and feeling vaguely countercultural."

I am tired of disagreements becoming purity arguments. It's stupid as heck.

[Live and Learn]

180. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was a personal attack on you.

Then again, it couldn't have been about you since you didn't eat any Doritos, could it?

I guess it just felt like it was about you.

Which side started the purity arguments here in the first place? I think it was the 'how dare protestors inconvenience me' crowd.

[ScreamingMeemie]

185. I didn't say it was an attack on me.

You did. I didn't see one person post "how dare" stuff. I see a fifty-fifty split on whether it's effective to convince others. Breathe a bit and reread the thread

[Live and Learn]

174. +1 nt

[MerryBlooms]

133. Scabs was the first thing that came to my mind.

The guy has 6 kids and 3 jobs... maybe he'll buy a clue and a pkg of goddamn condoms with his scab $$$.

[Live and Learn]

136. +1 nt

[mountain grammy]

152. This confrontation pains me deeply. This man is so wrong...

I honestly can't imagine where America would be without the protest and strikes that have brought about great changes in our country. Many activists have been murdered or imprisoned. I think it's important for people to voice outrage over the great injustices that are happening in America.

[Live and Learn]

175. Thank you. Wonderful to see someone get it. nt

[KingCharlemagne]

186. The first link in your OP has a very right-wing, authoritarian

tone to it. My "Ugh" meter went deep into the red zone when i clicked on it. Just a word to the wise.

[miyazaki]

191. If you protest on the freeway does it drive the point faster? n/t

[Socal31]

194. The discussion in this thread is very similar...

Similar to what plagued the Occupy movement. There was no consistency in the message.

The fact that the METHOD of protest has overshadowed the MESSAGE tells me all that I need to know about its effectiveness. The message can't even be agreed upon in this thread, which is full of posters sporting an above-average education level. How will the "average" sound-bite consumer sort it out?

Personally I feel that if you are basing your demonstration on Ferguson, at this moment in time, the issue is very clearly that of police brutality, injustice, profiling, and the ongoing local PD militarization. Watering it down with other issues, no matter how important, seems counter-productive.

[Live and Learn]

198. It seems to me that many of the same people that were determined to see Occupy

fail are the same ones determined to make this one fail. They might even win again but I think the movements will keep coming back and gaining in strength unless something is done to change all these inequities.

I don't believe for a minute that you can't see how the messages all tie together.

[Socal31]

201. The minute you have to "tie together" issues for the public...

..You've unfortunately already lost their attention.

It seems odd that people are advocating using the Ferguson anger and passion, which is over a very specific issue, for anything other than said issue.

To be honest what bothers me isn't the dilution of messages, but the conspicuous insults that are being tossed at those who don't think standing on I-5 is the best plan ever hatched.

[Liberal_in_LA]

215. update 10k raised

[Liberal_in_LA]

217. update. amount raised up to 15K - lots of controvery on the go fund site about how to spend $$

Most recent comment from guy who started the fund raiser:

Sorry for any confusion. We would like to allocate the original $2000 goal to go towards gifts for the kids and family. The remaining amount in its entirety will go to the family to do as they would like. There is currently $14,478 in the account with $100 in e-checks awaiting clearance. After gifts, that would leave a check of $12,578 (current estimate) for the family. I don't have an exact date as it depends on when the check clears and how quickly the funds get transferred, but my goal is next week as I know time is of the essence.

http://www.youcaring.com/help-a-neighbor/help-tyree-landrum-give-his-kids-a-great-christmas/269547

[NaturalHigh]

218. Good for Mr. Landrum.

[Dreamer Tatum]

222. Good. Entitled asshole UCSD kids have no business shutting streets down. nt