The flip side of police attacking black men

[loyalsister]

I have heard this complaint from black friends and neighbors a lot.

Law enforcement doesn't seem to show up when black residents call. If they do, they don't follow up. Police brutality and absence are symptoms of a single problem. An institutional disregard for black bodies. I hope this becomes part of the discussion.

The body of Deandre Joshua, 20, was found at around 9 a.m. inside a white Pontiac with the driver’s side window shot out near the Canfield Green Apartments, USA Today reports. The apartment complex is near the site where Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown in August.

-------------------------------

Police are investigating Joshua’s death as a homicide, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Even so, his grandmother, Renita Towns, has doubts about the amount of effort they’re going to put in.

"Police don't care — he's black,” she told USA Today.

Towns’ sentiments echo statements made by Leslie McSpadden, Michael Brown’s mother, shortly after the announcement that Wilson wouldn’t be indicted. “They still don’t care,” she said, addressing a crowd of supporters shortly before breaking into sobs. “They’re never gonna care. I’ve been here my whole life.”



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/26/deandre-joshua-shot-killed-protests_n_6225380.html

[Socal31]

1. It's a self-fulfilling cycle of distrust and hesitancy to help each other

Unlike what CSI tells you, eyewitness leads are a very important piece of a murder case.

Residents don't trust the police to protect them if they go out on a limb and give a statement implicating a dangerous criminal (lets face it, they can't). Without community help, cases go unsolved. The perception that the homicide detectives don't care continues.

Promoting law enforcement careers to youth to bring the makeup of the patrolling officers similar to that of the community they are patrolling is a good start in building trust between LEO and the neighborhood.

[loyalsister]

4. Promoting law enforcement careers to youth is a great idea

One problem that a friend located when talking with police in Ferguson is that there are men who are ideal candidates except for an arrest record. Again, it's a circle. The arrests are a symptom that creates barriers.

I think we need a stark, honest conversation. I'm not sure that as many white people as we need are up for it.

[XemaSab]

2. I realized something about my own white privilege the other day

I realized that in general, I can expect the cops to be nice and helpful and to look out for my interests and the interests of people like me. This is something that I take for granted. (Yes, I've had interactions with police that weren't so great for me, but in general, when I have called them, they have been helpful.)

It's distressing that there are large segments of the population where even if they're victims of a crime, the cops are not going to be helpful and might wind up making the situation worse. Even if they're victims, they're treated like suspects.

[Socal31]

6. I'm pale as it gets, and I always got treated situationally.

When I was young and dumb, the interactions with LEOs who were putting me in handcuffs/searching my car, or guarding my dorm were mainly very negative in nature. These days the worst interaction is for a traffic violation, which I admit I get out of more often then not. So yes I am not oblivious as to some of the advantages genetics can bring. But if you are being a criminal, you'll get treated like one.

[loyalsister]

7. I caught on to that a couple of years ago

A neighbor threatened me. I called the police, and the talked to me to get the details. A few weeks later, someone from the prosecutors office called and asked if I was okay with the guy's punishment.

I don't question the possibility that I will be safe the way my neighbor does. She doesn't trust that anyone in a position of authority (especially landlords) will help her if a need arises.

That sense of safety is one area where I do notice my privilege. My heart hurts to know that trailblazers I know are very afraid of these protests.
They accomplished something huge. But, they are still burying young people. Something went wrong along the way- Nixon

This time Nixon is a frienemy. The NAACP is marching from Ferguson to the governor's mansion with demands. Symmetry.

[uponit7771]

3. The FPD hate the people they're supposed to serve, they're the bad guys and don't realize it yet

... I'd be willing to bet there's few if any parents in that community saying to their child...

Would you want to be a police officer one day?

few if any

[shaayecanaan]

5. white murderers overwhelmingly kill white people

Black murderers overwhelmingly kill black people. About 80% each way. Therefore, if police only cared about white murder victims, the jails would be full of white people.

[justiceischeap]

8. If you're going to use stats that law enforcement is equal

then you also need to look at conviction rates and incarceration time. I believe I've read that systematically black folks receive harsher and longer sentences.

[chervilant]

9. What is your point?

Are you derogating the author of this OP, or the mother of this murder victim? Are you suggesting that LEO care about Black people? Are you trying to refute the premise presented?

[shaayecanaan]

10. Most crime is intraracial

Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

It is largely the same case with other crime, including rape and property crime.

There are two potential narratives. One is that law enforcement aggressively targets black perpetrators more so than whites. The other is that law enforcement neglects black victims of crime more so than whites.

However, it does not seem statistically viable to push both narratives at the same time. If police truly neglected black murder victims, for example, it would mean that blacks were less likely than whites to be incarcerated for murder.

[chervilant]

11. If you are willing to review the research that

supports the higher percentages of murders that are intraracial, you must be willing to review the literature that substantiates both of your "potential narratives."

[shaayecanaan]

13. they're not my narratives

They're yours. I could give you my narrative if you wanted, but I doubt that you'd like it.

[chervilant]

14. The least you can do is take ownership of your own post.

And, you're right, I do not wish to see any more of your questionable, convoluted posts.

[shaayecanaan]

18. It is indeed my post

I own it. Its got my name on it. I typed it with my own two hands.

questionable

That presumes you have done something to question the argument, which you have not.

You can accuse law enforcement of overpolicing or underpolicing, but its a bit hard to accuse them of both.

[nomorenomore08]

21. They *do* do both. If not necessarily at the same time. n/t

[shaayecanaan]

22. Maybe on alternate days? nt

[chervilant]

26. You are not funny,

nor are you correct. A plethora of criminology research supports both of your purported "potential narratives," and you cannot change that fact. You could read some of the research to understand how African Americans are disproportionately represented in the US prison system, while at the same time perniciously under served when victims of crimes.

But, please, whatever you do, don't bother me further. Your posts are sophomoric and offensive, and I prefer not to have any further discourse with you.

[shaayecanaan]

27. then stop replying

A plethora of criminology research supports both of your purported "potential narratives," and you cannot change that fact.

A cornucopia, a compendium of evidence so vast you can't point to a single example. Yes, the old "read a book" staple of internet debate.

But, please, whatever you do, don't bother me further. Your posts are sophomoric and offensive, and I prefer not to have any further discourse with you.

So stop replying to my posts. Simple.

[gollygee]

17. These are not opposing issues

It is entirely possible for the criminal justice system to discriminate against people of color when investigating and following up on crimes, and also to have less concern about the safety of people of color when crimes are being committed against them. This would make black crime against white victims the most important to police, and white crime against black victims the least important crime to police, and the intraracial crime being between the other two, perhaps with police focusing more on the perpetrators when investigating black-on-black crime, and focusing more on the victims when investigating white-on-white crime. You are pushing a false dichotomy.

[shaayecanaan]

19. That presumes that there is a significant amount of black on white crime...

and there is not. Around 90% of crime is intraracial. You are essentially arguing that the police are only concerned with about 5% of the work that they actually do.

perhaps with police focusing more on the perpetrators when investigating black-on-black crime, and focusing more on the victims when investigating white-on-white crime

You don't have any evidence for that, and its fairly hard to see how, in practice, such an approach could be implemented.

If I am prosecuting a black rapist of a black victim, and striving my utmost to see that he is sentenced to a lengthy jail term, its bad for him, but by the same logic, "good" for her (in the sense that she would no doubt appreciate him being jailed).

Conversely, if I am going easy on white rapists, thats good for white boys, but an inherently shitty deal for the white women that they preponderantly rape. You can either favour the victim, or the perpetrator, but I am not sure how you would do both.

[gollygee]

28. It does not assume that

It only assumes that those individual crimes are of greater interest to police (and I'd add the media) than other individual crimes.

[Wella]

12. Are there any good stats on this?

The FBI should keep these kinds of records.

[Odin2005]

15. IIRC this is why a lot of inner city black folks feel compelled to join a gang.

Because if the cops are not willing to protect them then the only other option is sucking up to the local strongmen.

[loyalsister]

16. That would also account for why members aren't

effectively "banished" from their communities.

[mackerel]

23. All too true e.g. NI, IRA & Sinn Fein.

[AverageJoe90]

20. Racism and corruption often go hand in hand, sadly.

I've known this long before I even joined DU, just by reading & hearing various stories of people's experiences, or muckrakers' exposes(Mae Brussell in particular REALLY opened my eyes in that regard!)

[mackerel]

24. I was sorry to read about Deandre Joshua's death. I think he testified before the grand jury?

[loyalsister]

25. He did

The article mentioned that his family thinks that it had something to do with his death.