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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Patience and Forbearance of the Black Population in the US is Remarkable.
Right now, everyone is looking at Ferguson and seeing what appears to be an uprising. It's not, really. It's a reaction and a local one at that. There are peaceful demonstrations in other cities as well, but as long as they are peaceful, they'll have little effect on long-term change. The actions in Ferguson will wind down soon, and things will return, more or less, to normal.
What we're not seeing, and what would likely occur in many other nations in a similar situation is guerrilla action by people who are at an end of their patience and forbearance. We're not seeing individual snipers picking off police officers at random. We're not seeing sabotage of facilities and equipment. Why we are not seeing that has to do with the nature of this country, I think, and an unwillingness on the part of the black community to take such actions.
Will that patience and forbearance continue? I think that's highly doubtful. I think that it may not continue if other, similar incidents keep occurring. We live in a nation that has almost as many firearms as people. We live in a nation where an excellent sniper rifle can be purchased at any sporting goods store for a few hundred dollars, since we're a nation of deer hunters, too. We live in an age where information on guerrilla tactics is as close as a Google search. We live in a diverse nation that is made up of many communities who have had to suck up a lot of bigotry for as long as can be remembered.
I believe that the authorities need to make serious progress toward ending the bigoted, racist practices that are all too common. So far, they've managed to get away with those ugly practices with impunity. I don't believe that impunity, however, will last much longer. It's time to start thinking seriously about how to end bigoted enforcement by overly militarized police forces. If that doesn't happen, I believe the next step is going to be for those who are currently oppressed to end their forbearance and patience. The result will not be a good one. We'd better wake up and begin changing how we treat our minority populations or we may face things we haven't yet thought about. Time is short, I believe.
cilla4progress
(24,708 posts)And I'm gratified to see someone putting forth this perspective.
Same for other oppressed minorities here.
Thank you.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)a few days. I have worried that bringing attention to this scenario might be seen as encouraging it to happen. That's the last thing I want. However, I sense an inevitability in it that can't be overcome without some real change, really soon.
Of one thing I'm certain. Current police thinking and strategy is not up to the challenge of urban guerrilla actions. Not in any way. Police departments are geared up to handle crowds of people, not individuals acting on their own. People are figuring that out, I'm sure.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)more on training officers than on military equipment and helicopters.
Officers need to be trained to focus on diffusing violence and tension rather than escalating it. Officers need to be better trained to have thick skin especially when it comes to stupid, insulting comments. We should never again have a situation in which an officer places himself in a position in which he thinks he has to shoot 12 bullets at young, clearly unarmed man simply because he insulted the officer.
Wilson should have just driven off or called for back-up. Brown should have been arrested for the theft of the cigarillos and that should have been that.
We need to spend more on preparing police officers for dealing with the public in general. In the process, a lot of officers would learn to be less racist and our whole society would benefit.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)I'm simply predicting its inevitability if things do not change. Things are getting desperate in some places, and desperate people will take action, eventually. I hope that does not occur, but change is required if it is to be prevented.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014945402
This has to be the most profound piece of wisdom I have yet to read here or elsewhere on this matter.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I refuse to allow my children to live in their own nation that their forefathers and mthers helped build- for free- when the start having their own children. I will tell them the opposite of what my grandma told me. She said it's just our lot in life and it is because of our sins that we hold the position of servants. As an atheist is refuse to submit to that nonsense bullshit.
My kids are brown. Half the kids being born are brown, when they have kids, more than half of the people being born will be brown. I will be telling the to take the power, do whatever they have to do to resist the destructive forces of white supremacy.
My kids have white great grandparents who don't even acknowledge their existance, don't want people to see them with us. That hurts, but it kets me know tgat this shit needs to end. And I don't give a flying fuck who it makes uncomfortable. It may make white folks uncomfortable, but it kills us. And I am not willing to sit here and allow my kids to be killed or mistreated so that sone old racists can live 'comfortable'. If mine can't be comfy because of tgeir brown skin, nobody should be comfy.
And if anybody thinks that them not dealing with marches or traffic or being inconvenienced is more important than my children's or anybody elses children's welfare, holler at me dog. I got some news for you. We will not continue submitting to your stupid ass system of white supremacy and prison slavery.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)I'm as sure of that as I'm sure the sun will rise tomorrow. A reckoning is just about at hand, I think.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I have nieces and nephews who are a rainbow of colors. I have in-laws whose blood is strong from Africa, and from the Turtle Tribes. In both of our families' heritages there is Irish and Scots blood, as well.
We had better recognize soon that--while we have a cornucopia of socio-cultural legacies--there is but ONE race, and that is the HUMAN RACE. As Firesign Theater asserted, "We're ALL bozos on this bus!" We MUST have each others' backs, and reject the radical income inequity and militarized police forces that are the tools of the corporate megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics, AND our global economy. They want to keep us divided and divisive--we must reject their narrative.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)There is only one race- Human. All of my black family has white relatives and we welcome them. All we want is the same respect and familiarity from them and society. Hate feeling like trash to be used when needed and thrown away when unneeded.
Even our democratic politicians use nasty tactics to get conservative voters and treat us like idiots.
I grew up mixed race and that childhood was 60 years ago, in germany and amerikkka. To think the same attitudes prevail as when I was a child IS totally disheartening. I'm glad for your presence and for the presence of mixed race kids. That hold an important key to reconciliation, if possible between THE divide, racially, in this society. Down the road, that is.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I was real young. I remember my mother laughing at me and telling me if it were not for white/black relationships, I would not exist. Her dad was white. I later realized I had gotten the idea from other people, the media, women in the neighborhood pissed about some famous negro marrying a white lady.
It felt good to let it go once I figured out what it was. Self hate. Fear.
Now I just wish everybody would hurry the hell up and mix on like they want to so we can get a grip on this shit. My husbands grandad was racist until he was born. His wife stayed that way, but he was an ex Sheriff and had been around the block a bit and knew a few things. He raced to get on a plane to Washington to see his Grandson. He has always been kind to me and loves the kids. He says it changed him inside. I decided that everybody needs a black grandson. Even if they don't LOOK black, like my honey. It changes a persons perspective.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)TBF
(31,999 posts)"conditions will dictate" and I think that is what you are describing here. When folks feel like they have nothing to lose they will be bolder in their protesting. Shooting unarmed black men in the street, and getting away with it, is not going to promote racial harmony in any way, shape, or form.
Hopefully the teabaggerati moling on this forum will take to heart what you've written because those of us on the far left are already there & ready to stand with our brothers and sisters.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)I doubt if anyone will pay any attention to anything I write, though. The deeply entrenched racism and bigotry in many police departments is unlikely to change. It's not universal, but it's endemic throughout the country. The police and other law enforcement authorities seem to believe that their crowd control strategies and excessive force against the non-white population are enough to keep people down. They're wrong.
At some point, enough will be enough and things will change. Police, as individuals, are fearful of the people they supposedly serve. They have little reason for that fear, really, but that may be one of the things that changes. When that happens, it will not be as it is. Some people need to be thinking about that and planning right now how to change their approach to minority communities. Time is short, I think, for the available window for that kind of change. And law enforcement is not known for its high degree of intelligence.
I worry.
Wella
(1,827 posts)I don't. I have other thoughts about who is doing that.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)People are justifiably pissed off that Michael Brown was shot dead by a cop. The rest is what it is. I'm not even talking about what is going on in Ferguson any more. I'm talking about something far more important than this individual incident.
I don't know who set the fires. I have no way to find out who set the fires. I live in Minnesota. Here, we also have cops using excessive force against young black men. Some of those young black men have died. Similar incidents do not happen to young white men here in the Twin Cities, but they happen all the time to young black men. To young Hmong men, too.
Ferguson is just a symptom, and the aftermath of that shooting is just a symptom. I'm not talking about Ferguson. I'm talking about something else entirely.
Frankly, it doesn't matter who set those fires. That has nothing to do with this thread.
Wella
(1,827 posts)Peaceful demonstrations are justified when you're expressing your views on a true injustice. Fires are not. Unfortunately, the cable news accents the worst.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)You're taking the short view here. You are not getting what my post is about at all.
Wella
(1,827 posts)However, I think we have an even wider picture to consider: the militarization of the police. And here is why the fires are important.
The police problem has gotten so out of hand that even conservative blogs and local talk radio have been starting to cover police abuses. Recent cases including Kelly Thomas, David Eckert, Marlene Pinnock, and autistic young males like this one have been treated as horrific events by not only liberal/left sources but, also, libertarian and right wing sources. In other words, the abuses are getting so bad, that even the traditional "law and order" types can't ignore it anymore.
Fast forward to Ferguson with all its fires and weird protests that affect commuters and little children. Suddenly, our militarized police are looking like the damned good guys---at least to commuters and parents, which account for most of the middle class. To me, it looks like TPTB have been very successful at pulling the middle class on their side with this negative coverage. Police brutality gets lost in fear of fires and anger at protests that interfere with middle class life.
I see often on this board the idea that the middle class will vote against its own economic interests, and that is true. What makes that happen is class warfare, and the press plays a huge role in it. Their side has won with the Ferguson riots and demonstrations. Instead of all Americans unified against an increasingly militarized and abusive police force, the fires and demonstrations make it look as if the police are truly helpless and need more power, not less.
That's why the fires matter--in the BIG picture.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Why do you think the news coverage is almost exclusively about fires, and looting, and violence? Why do you think the pundits are promoting the "inconvenience of blocking major thoroughfares"? (Oh, the humanity! jic)
You might do well to ask yourself WHY does "the cable news accent the worst"?
Wella
(1,827 posts)I think you'll find we agree.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)When a black person sets a fire, they have a history of being black.
Maybe there are a couple people in Ferguson who set the fires. Maybe it was the FBI or the KKK.
The actions of a few people aren't usually construed as being representative of the whole community. Unless the few people are black, of course.
Wella
(1,827 posts)And I don't.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Rational people do not set fires.
But maybe there's someone there who isn't rational.
If it turns out that it was someone from Ferguson, I'm not going to judge the whole community based on that.
Wella
(1,827 posts)But I can see we're getting nowhere.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)I'm genuinely interested.
Wella
(1,827 posts)Take a look at the large post I made to Mineral Man further up. It outlines my concerns.
marym625
(17,997 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)MineralMan
(146,248 posts)Pantagruelsmember
(106 posts)They want blacks sniping cops so they can justify bringing out their weapons in "self defense" provoking their dream of "revolution" to restore white/ "christian" rule.
Dr. King recognized the necessity for non-violent resistance as difficult as it is to sell to an abused , incredibly patient black community.[
bravenak
(34,648 posts)What those who want a race war fail to realize is that, most white people won't join them. It will be racists against everyone else. And if somebody starts sniping cops, it will probably be the racists side. After all this time, we have not started sniping cops yet. The separatist groups who have shootout with cops or point high powered rifles at law enforcement are usually white folks. Like Bundy. Those guys.
I'm more Malcolm X myself. The PTB would never have worked with Martin if they didn't fear what Malcolm and those like him would do if they did not.
Even white christians don't want to be under white christian rule for the most part. Not every christian is a fundamentalist racist kook. Most aren't.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And look at what happened to Dr. King. Unlike Malcolm X prior to his trip to Mecca in 1964(to be truthful, before then he was more of a manipulated pawn, than actually helpful before then), TPTB were genuinely afraid of MLK from the moment he started becoming prominent. And when he started adopting more socialistic rhetoric.....well, why else do you think he was murdered? I have LONG suspected that MLK's murder was no lone job, and even his own family seems to be convinced that a conspiracy may have happened as well.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)Are the last gasp of the white superstructure. No, they don't want change. The want to retain the upper hand, even though they realize they don't deserve it.
But change comes to all things, whether we wish it or not, and change will have to come to the US, to Israel, to Canada, and it will come because we made that change, sometimes by fighting for it and sometimes against it.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)I can't, though, and it will be only days before something similar happens again, I'm afraid.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)The problem is that the US was born in slavery. When a nation is born believing in white superiority, it doesn't change without a lot of fighting back, if ever.
Essentially, that is true of Israel, too. And Africa, especially those parts that were subject to colonialism.
I think there's a lot to answer for; for those who believe in the Rapture and the end times, I should think that they would want some time to atone for their evils.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)we have the largest population of Somalis outside of Somalia. They face a quadruple issue when dealing with the Police. They're black, they're not citizens, most are Muslims, and most speak English poorly. The number of incidents involving Somali residents is growing, but rarely make the news. It's depressing to see what is going on in that community.
As for your comment on believers in the Rapture and so on, it is my belief that most do not really believe in that stuff at all. They claim to believe, and yet completely ignore the teachings of their own religion. But then, I believe that many leaders of fundamentalist churches are actually atheists. Pat Robertson, for example. I cannot believe for a moment that he actually believes any of the stuff he professes, based on his words and actions. I have little time for that lot, and no respect whatsoever.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)And a large proportion of them have never gotten over it. The business of supporting Israel because God will come back when the temple mount is rebuilt is my favourite. It's tiring.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)IF not, I'm a little disturbed that 1) you're lumping all African-Americans together as if we all somehow act in unison all the time 2) you're speculating how "we" will all supposedly act in reaction to something.
You do realize that similarities in skin color aside we're individual human beings right?
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I also think I know of an explanation.
"Why we are not seeing that has to do with the nature of this country, I think, and an unwillingness on the part of the black community to take such actions."
I learned the reason why when we were organizing our protests. One friend said that she didn't want to go because she needed to know where her kids and grandkids were. The people in the NAACP are being very careful to not get involved with the violence. It's not about opposing violence as much as it is about keeping people safe. People do not want to take part in a serious potentially violent uprising because they don't want their family members to risk getting killed.