BREAKING/UPDATED: Cop vs Cop - Feds Stand Ground Against NYPD for 1st Amend at Wall Street

[kpete]

Last edited Fri Apr 20, 2012, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)

[BREAKING] Feds Stand Ground Against NYPD for 1st Amend at Wall Street
byCharlie GrapskiFollow

This is breaking. I will try and put more info up shortly.

But right now there is a stand-off on Wall Street between the Occupiers backed by the Federal Park Police and the NYPD.

For a week Occupiers have camped out on the steps of Federal Hall, location of the authoring of the Bill of Rights, after NYPD prohibited them from sleeping on the streets adjacent to the Stock Exchange contrary to standing judicial rulings about sleeping as a means of protest.

The NYPD has shut down Wall Street and barricaded 25 Occupiers on the steps as the two police forces stand-off against one another over the right to peaceably assemble and exercise 1st amendment speech rights.

VIDEO (Holy Cow Happening Now!):

http://www.ustream.tv/occupiedair

http://www.ustream.tv/occupiedairhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/20/1085129/-Feds-Stand-Ground-Against-NYPD-for-1st-Amend-at-Wall-Street



**********UPDATE****************

.............................................

Then the NYPD got aggressive and when people didn't, because locked in a crowd, move fast enough - they made several forceful arrests.

Then at 5 pm the protesters were given a new set of rules just created by which they were told they needed to abide in order to remain. These rules included limiting the size of the signs the protesters held - which included a larger yellow banner with black letters spelling "Occupy Wall Street" that was raised each morning after the steps were power washed.

The NYPD threatened them with arrest but Federal Park Police informed them of the rights of the protesters to remain. Then the NYPD shut down Wall Street and cut-off hundreds of marchers and pedestrians from twenty-five protesters who stood their ground (the rules stating only 25 were allowed on the steps) at Federal Hall.

What you see right now is the stalemate that has followed. The streets were opened back up to pedestrian traffic about an hour ago. A massive entourage of NYPD officers including SWAT and Counterterrorism Unit members remains mobilized outside of the NY Stock Exchange which is adjacent to Federal Hall.

more:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/20/1085129/-Feds-Stand-Ground-Against-NYPD-for-1st-Amend-at-Wall-Street

[HooptieWagon]

1. Thank goodness for the Federal Park Police

If only the rest of the DOJ were so protective of the first Amendment to the Constitution.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

18. Federal Park Police arrested Angry Pacifist because he objected to them taking his sign.

So, let's not jump the gun and start licking their boots just yet.

[HooptieWagon]

25. Maybe giving credit where credit is due

will encourage them to do good more often? Just a thought...

[Uncle Joe]

2. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[freshwest]

12. Good example of why we must have national rights enforced, not states' rights.

Thanks Occupy and the FEDERAL Park Police, standing up for individual rights against a wrong local authority.

It almost feels like going against Bull Connor, not quite, but nearly in terms of the power standoff.

Will check tomorrow to see if the stream is on. Right now, it's off. Thanks, kpete for bringing this here.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

19. Federal Park Police arrested Angry Pacifist because he objected to them taking his sign.

Let's not start licking their boots just yet.

[freshwest]

22. They did a better job of protecting the rights of the individuals than Bloomberg's private army.

Some may not want to give credit for them standing between the NYPD arresting everyone there, but I may do so, on principle. That's not boot licking.

People may simply have to disagree on this. I'm glad OWS had someone to protect their action. I see this as against Bloomberg and Wall Street.

Perhaps some would have preferred something else to take place instead of a largely peaceful action. That's an individual choice.

Anyone else has the right to their own opinion, without charging anyone who is glad to see a peaceful action with 'boot licking.'

That's a term I reserve for the people who gladly support anyone who would put a boot in my face or the people at OWS, or support the 1% and the GOP.

I do not. Enjoy your weekend. n/t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

24. I was just using a general phrasing.

No offense was intended.

I only wanted to illustrate that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

[freshwest]

28. We are cool. I'm just tired of the negativity here. Have a good weekend and stay as safe as you can.

[Gore1FL]

27. If the sign violated a rule that allowed them to do so,

then they are consistent in enforcing the rules for the protesters and the nypd.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

33. A rule against a sign? Really?

The sign said "Angry Pacifist," by the way.

[Gore1FL]

34. Was the size too large?

I don't know the details. But I content that I would support them for standing up for the rules with the nypd and the protesters.

Until I know what the rules they were enforcing are or aren't, I can;t have an opinion other than what I already expressed.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

36. Oh, for fuck sake.

A sign is a sign regardless of size.

No one should be arrested for having a sign.

I can't believe I'm having this debate.

[Gore1FL]

37. I am not saying that the rule was right or wrong if it exists at all.

Last edited Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I am asking if there was a rule.

You can't believe you are having this debate, because you aren't having a debate. You are arguing something different than the point I am making.


If such a rule exists, I would expect them to enforce such a rule as much as I would expect them to enforce rules that keep the nypd at bay.

I don't know what the rules are. If said rules exist, I expect them to be enforce evenly.

I am not debating whether or not the sign should or should not be allowed. I am suggesting that if the Federal officers are follwing the rules--whatever they may happen to be--for both sides, then I am OK with it. They aren't there to take sides.

Unless you are able to demonstrate that the Federal Park Police were not following the rule of law, I can't be particularly supportive of your argument. Sorry.


Edited to add:
The rules designated part of the steps as a “First Amendment assembly area” and placed limits on the size of signs and other objects allowed on the steps.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/wall-st-protesters-lying-on-sidewalk-are-arrested/

The job of the Park Police is not to legislate the rules. They are not there to adjudicate the rules. They are there to enforce the rules.

I am happy they are not taking sides in this. I wish the NYPD wouldn't take sides, either.

If you take issue with the sign size rule, or any federal law for that matter, your recourse is to write your congressmen or to challenge it in court. Taking issue with the Federal Park's police even-handed enforcement of the rules isn't rational.

[joshcryer]

3. K&R

[secondwind]

4. K&R!!!

[HereSince1628]

5. Flashpoint!

[pinboy3niner]

6. K&R

[sakabatou]

7. The NYPD already thinks it can step into federal powers.

[bongbong]

8. Our wonderful nation

Hundreds of well-armed shock troops needed to contain those 25 ultra-violent terrorists. I sure am glad to live in America!

[freshwest]

13. 'You Cannot Evict An Idea Whose Time Has Come.'

[alp227]

9. Maybe the FPP in DC can get a clue??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1192901

[atreides1]

10. NYPD

Bloomberg has turned that organization into his personal Gestapo and SS...ironic isn't it?

[sabrina 1]

11. The NYPD does it again, draws out the crowds for Occupy Wall Street.

Authoritarians never learn, they are like addicts, addicted to power regardless of how it works against them.

[freshwest]

14. Ironic, isn't it. They can't help themselves. Anonymous said of them:

The ones you are noticing are more terrified than anything else.

They are lashing out because they are comfortable; and to acknowledge what is happening is a threat to that comfort.

Ignore them, for they are not the voices that will rise in the coming days, months and years.

They are not the voices of our collected humanity. They are the old voices of fear and impotence.

- Anonymous

[sabrina 1]

15. Perfectly stated by Anonymous.

They are 'The old voices of fear and impotence'. There's going to be a lot of that fear over the next few years as the results of their corruption reach more and more people, all over the world. Thanks for the quote. I sometimes marvel at the wisdom of the real Anonymous, and wonder about who they really are.

[Rex]

21. +1

.

[bvar22]

16. SOLIDARITY!

Our neighbors in Latin America have successfully wrested their governments BACK from the hands of the 1%,
and have given us a successful Blue Print for change.
Of course, they are demonized by the US media and the leadership of BOTH entrenched Political parties.

[font size=3]"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."[/font]
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales

FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.
Unfortunately FDR is dead, and THAT Democratic Party (the Left Wing impractical, non-pragmatic, non-sensible Wackos) has been marginalized by the Big Business "Centrist" "Wall Street" Wing of the Party.



When The Working Class & The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the 1% and their employees in Washington,
THEN, we can have "change".

VIVA Democracy!

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[DallasNE]

17. Citizens United

Puts no limit on the amount of speech (money) that can be given to a Super PAC. Following that logic, how can a limit on the amount of speech in the size of a sign be imposed? Is the law really that situational? Just saying....

[rhett o rick]

31. Great point. I think the problem is there are two Constitutions now. One for the 1%

and one for the rabble.

[DallasNE]

32. Sad But True

We always are hearing about the loopholes in all of our laws. While exceptions (a form of a loophole) are embedded in most laws what they are really talking about are the technical loopholes high priced attorney's are "finding". In other words, they find loopholes where none exist and they get away with it.

[Rex]

20. So now the cops are fighting the cops!?!

The NYPD needs a thorough scrubbing...it is NOT someones 'private army' and the smell is getting worser and worser.

This will be remembered as when The People stood up to a 'private army' and the FPP decided to step in and scold the children that try and act like goons working at Ze.

Thank you FPP. At least somebody realizes the bullshit and is willing to put a stop to it.

[sabrina 1]

23. Yes, the sense of entitlement displayed by 1%er Bloomberg, who bought his way

into office, that the NYPD was his own personal army, was amazing. It shows how far over to the dark side some of our 'elected' or more correctly, bought and paid for, officials have gone.

NYC has become a protected area for the rich and famous. Giuliani began 'the clean-up' to make it safe for the wealthy when he went after the homeless and the poor. Bloomberg is the poster child for all that is wrong with our electoral system.

And the NYPD, especially their chief, cater only to the wealthy, while abusing minorities, as seen in the latest scandals, and the poor. He was not wrong, when he called them 'his army', they ARE.

It is natural that they would all hate OWS which is the first real challenge to the power they have wielded for far too long. The people, the middle class, the working poor, minorities are their 'enemies'.

[Rex]

26. I read about the 'private army' and was sitting in shock.

America, land of the free. Democracy. Openness and full transpaerncy...ALL BULLSHIT! DU has more transparency then our bureaucratic oligarchies!



Here we are 2012 and we are told that an elected official (BY HIS OWN MOUTH) is in charge of a private army (NYPD)...HIS private army.


Not going to forget that one anytime soon.

WHAT kind of country do we live in again, some places seem to be controlled by insane people.

[PatSeg]

29. Its the result of over ten years

of fear-mongering and hate baiting after 9/11. All the hysterical paranoia has given those in power an excuse to abuse that power - they are keeping us SAFE! Of course, they are also keeping us poor, sick, unemployed, and often hopeless as well. Oh, and I never really felt "safe" either.

[sabrina 1]

35. I felt the same way, Rex. It was so blatant, yet there was so little reaction to it.

But then his 'army' was busy throwing journalists in jail also, so I am sure few NY journalists are willing to question him as to what he meant, but someone should.

If he is not questioned about that remark, then it seems as if it is acceptable that the civilian police departments now work exclusively for the wealthy. If that IS the case the people should not be funding them. We need to get our own police and let the wealthy pay for their 'army'.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

30. Holy shit, I missed all this.

Go OWS!!!