I will never understand the controversy of Merry Christmas or Season's

[mfcorey1]

Greetings. Everyone is not a Christian so if one chooses to greet with Happy Holidays or Season's greetings, what is the big deal? It's too much tight wad over nothing. I always tell people Happy Holidays and feel comfortable doing so.

[Javaman]

1. it's the non-trovercy that allows right wing morons feel they are involed in "change".

when it means nothing.

it's the perfect tactic by the right wing politicians to make their mouth breathing followers feel engaged.

[yeoman6987]

52. I think it has to do more with taking Christmas out of public schools

That at least started it. Then it went further where you can't call that national Christmas tree lighting but must say holiday tree lighting. Then objects are no longer allowed like Angels or even Santa. Then no more greeting Merry Christmas but happy holidays? Too much for some it would appear.

[Javaman]

53. like I said. it's a non-trovercy to make right wingers feel engaged. nt

[yeoman6987]

55. Well you have a point.

[zeemike]

67. That is a point I have never considered...and a good one.

So it works more than one way, because another one is it divides us up into waring camps.

Good observation Avaman.

[Javaman]

121. it's an old tactic used by kings, popes, presidents and other shady leaders in the past

used to make the peasants feel that they were part of something larger than themselves.

[liberal_at_heart]

69. got to get people angry about something or they won't vote.

Unfortunately both parties now use this as an excuse to do absolutely nothing. Republicans can scare their base into voting by telling their voters secular America is taking away your religious freedoms, and the Democrats can scare their base into voting by telling their voters that Christian America will take away your secular freedoms and viola they don't actually have to do any legislating.

[Javaman]

120. fear is a powerful tool for the stupid.

and the politicians employee it over and over.

one day, a portion of the mouth breathers will wake up...one day...

[HereSince1628]

2. Gleðileg Jól!

Just wish'n you a good season

[geardaddy]

63. Icelandic?

[HereSince1628]

74. yes, and a mug of yule to you, too!

[geardaddy]

79. þakka þér!

[el_bryanto]

3. You have to get into the mindset of victimization that they have

Imagine you go with a friend to another persons house and they have up things to celebrate Hannunkah - and you friend says to them "But I'm a Christian." That would strike you as a rude thing to say, right? To walk into someone else's house and demand that they celebrate the holidays the way they do?

Well for the persecuted Christian mindset - all of America is a home for Christianity. Any public space is, by default, belonging to Christians (white protestant Christians mostly). So when someone insists that other religious traditions be allowed or respected within the public sphere, it is, to them, the same as if you had gone in their house and started taking down their Christmas decorations.

When you get to the extremes of this mindset, a corporation or a government requesting happy holidays instead of merry Christmas is an insult - it's forcing them to acknowledge that Christianity doesn't actually own the public sphere.

Plus, insisting on Merry Christmas, is a cheap lazy way to feel morally superior - and everybody likes to feel morally superior, particularly when there's no risk involved.

Bryant

[Proud Liberal Dem]

14. Extend that further

And it explains their obsession with being able to discriminate against gays and lesbians and/or being able to refuse to provide birth control for women. It's like it has to be their way or it's taking away their religious freedom/engaging in persecution

[Takket]

16. You nailed it. Well done.

[deutsey]

25. Yes, and they're addicted to outrage

This non-troversy is their big, year-end binge.

[RKP5637]

36. Exactly! n/t

[Ninga]

59. Well said. Spot on. This deserves to be its own OP.

Happy Holidays to you and yours!

[blackcrowflies]

92. not what's happening.

"Imagine you go with a friend to another persons house and they have up things to celebrate Hannunkah(sic) - and you friend says to them "But I'm a Christian." That would strike you as a rude thing to say, right?"

Imagine you go with a friend to another person's house and they say Happy Hanukkah to your friend,and your friend says to them "But I'm a Christian." That would strike you as a rude thing to say, right? No.

[el_bryanto]

96. Thank you for the correction - but I was talking about the mindset

The mindset that basically makes all public space Christian by default.

Bryant

[BlueJazz]

4. Seems to me it's a very small minority of people that started that bullshit.

I remember the first time I heard about this "controversy".
My first thoughts were: Here we go again, Another made up crisis....followed by an endless dog and pony show.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

5. Happy Hogswatchnight, all. nt

[Vinca]

6. It's just one more tactic for the right wing hate machine to generate cash.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays . . . anyone with an iota of gray matter doesn't care.

[JoePhilly]

7. If you don't believe as they do, YOU have attacked THEM.

Their religious laws should be your religious laws.

If you won't bow, then you are attacking them.

"Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays", are open and unapologetic statements of non-compliance.

And as such, can not be tolerated.

[HappyMe]

8. Eh, I don't know.

I have Jewish friends, so I always say Happy Hanukkah to them. Sorry, but everyone else gets whatever I blurt out at the time - Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Merry Holidays, Happy Christmas.

[GreatGazoo]

9. They are bullies who choose to pick on cashiers because the cashiers can't say anything back.

The big corporate stores pay all the secular Holiday songs -- santa, rudolf and all that -- not one song on their in-store PA that mentions Jesus. The store tells the cashiers what to say during the transaction but they pick on the employees, accusing them of hating Christmas.

They turn their false victimhood into a justification to be horrible to innocent cashiers. Merry Christmas indeed.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

10. It's pretty easy

[HappyMe]

15. +1000

Why does everything have to be a big fight.

[RedCappedBandit]

17. No, it's not that easy.

Generally yeah, it's that simple.

But when you're talking about these xtians who are perpetually persecuted, they'll say merry christmas out of spite just to assert themselves. That's annoying and there is no "good intent" there.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. and how do you tell which is which? n/t

[RedCappedBandit]

23. Obviously there's no fool proof way.

Intuition helps.

Personally I'd rather lean towards considering the possibility that the person I'm greeting does things differently and simply say happy holidays throughout the holiday season. I don't see what's so difficult about being inclusive.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. some people just say the first thing that comes to their mind

and that is generally supported by the faith they have grown up with... and it doesn't matter to me WHAT they say... if they wish me any form of holiday greetings, i will echo that to them. that's why i posted the image. i don't know what their intent is, but i would rather err on the side believing their best intentions. so you wish Merry Christmas to a couple of ogres... it's like pouring hot coals on their heads.

sP

[RedCappedBandit]

49. Yeah, people tend to do that.

It would be more inclusive not to.

Not that big a deal, but there it is.

[Nye Bevan]

32. I just HATE it when people wish me Merry Christmas "out of spite".

It simply ruins my whole day.

[stone space]

44. Yeah! It also annoys the hell out of me when...

...folks go around wishing people a "Happy New Year" without first asking them when their new year actually starts.

As if everybody in the world celebrates the beginning of the new year on January 1st.

[RedCappedBandit]

48. Cool story. Thanks for replying. nt

[Nye Bevan]

50. Merry Christmas! (nt)

[RedCappedBandit]

51. Happy holidays.

[Dreamer Tatum]

78. Merry Christmas, RedCappedBandit! nt

[RedCappedBandit]

90. It's funny because I do celebrate christmas. Happy holidays Tatum. nt

[Inkfreak]

56. LOL! (nt)

[immoderate]

88. If they say "Merry Christmas" spitefully, I say "Thank You."

How could it not be reflective of their wishes?

--imm

[RedCappedBandit]

89. Good for you. I say happy holidays and move on as well. nt

[cordelia]

19. YES!

[stone space]

29. +1000 (nt)

[etherealtruth]

43. Agree .... wish me well for anything ....

... and I will say: thank you, you too! I will mean it!

[TreasonousBastard]

11. I grew up in a NYC neighborhood that was maybe half Jewish...

with a sprinkling of others, like Hindus.

The "Happy Holidays" thing was a matter of respect for those non-Christians who kinda liked the festive season, but didn't need the religious aspects to be shoved down their throats.

After some adjustment, it worked out quite well. Mutual respect is the goal, and you can't really go wrong with that.

[ProfessorGAC]

118. What If It's Even Simpler

What if i want them to have a good New Year's Even and Day too. That's three holidays. Happy holidays simply covers all the events that happen in 8 days.

[TreasonousBastard]

122. Seems to me that every civilization in a wintry clime...

has managed to come up with celebrations for the middle of winter when the days, and food, are short. Keeps the spirits up, and probably the suicide rate low.

Messing it up with arguments over religion should not be part of the plan.

[Dorian Gray]

12. Exactly

the whole kerfluffle is stupid.

On Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, I'll wish family and friends a Merry Christmas (unless they don't celebrate!). From Thanksgiving on, I'll say a general Happy Holidays when shopping or in a restaurant. I don't know the person and which holiday she or he celebrates.

Getting your panties in a twist about something as meager as that shows a very uptight personality.

[Jenoch]

13. You're right, it's not a big deal.

On Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, if I greet someone, I will say 'Merry Christmas'.

[pipoman]

18. People have said merry christmas, happy holidays and seasons greetings for decades

Nobody thought anything of it until a vocal few started a small controversy about it with feigned offense. It still didn't get traction until O'Reilly, hanity, Limbaugh, etc. started making a big deal out of it...

[NightWatcher]

21. It's all about tolerance. The religious right cannot stand being forced to tolerate anyone else

So if you even mention that someone might have a different set of beliefs and wish them a good day accordingly, they see it as a spit in the face for denying their imaginary sky guy.

[RedCappedBandit]

22. I say happy holidays too.

Simply, it's inclusive rather than exclusive. I'm not pretentious enough to assume everybody celebrates the same things in the same ways I do.

That said I really don't care what some random strangers say to me so have at it.

[deutsey]

24. I'm offended when people don't say "Io, Saturnalia!"

But, then again, I'm a traditionalist.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

27. that would be fun... i would love someone to walk around

with THAT 'seasons greeting'... i think someone should strap on a go-pro kind of camera and walk around doing just that to see the confused looks and the exploding heads of those who get the reference...

sP

[deutsey]

31. LOL

That would be funny.

I may send this out something like this as a holiday card:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. the best of days... n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

70. Ok, I lost it a little bit reading your post, when I got to "strap on" /nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

81. well, there's that :-)

believe it or not, we used to have a pastor who used a few too many sports analogies and he was particularly fond of football. whenever he thought he was about to get into some tough doctrine... he would say, OK, let's strap it on. my wife would just about bust out laughing every time!

have a good winter season (it is by far my favorite)... i hope you make the best of it!

sP

[whathehell]

28. Me either -- I say Merrry Christmas to those I know celebrat that holiday, "happy holidays"

when I don't -- What's the big friggin' deal?

[yellowcanine]

30. If "Merry Christmas" is followed by "Bless her noodly appendage I am ok with it.

[stone space]

34. Feliz Navidad, próspero año y felicidad

[samsingh]

39. thanks. Great song!

[maced666]

35. Because a religious holiday name is being verbally/sign banned. Let me explain.

It's only important to people until it is a word/religion/belief/political cause THEY care about.

THIS is the problem - Christians got it a tuff when stores began BANNING Christmas signs/ads instead of adding Seasons Greetings/Happy Holidays signs/ads.

The actual verbal Seasons Greetings/Happy Holidays was working fine over last 50 years with little grief - makes sense.

It wasn't until stores began BANNING the word Christmas from employeess/ads/signs that Christians rightfully said WTF!!!!!!!!!! It IS Christmas!

[sinkingfeeling]

54. But it's not just Christmas. There are several other holidays for other religions

on the same date. So why should Christmas be the only one included in ads or signs or sayings?

[yeoman6987]

57. Because Christmas is a federal holiday,

The others aren't. That really is the bottom line. The federal government dictated that everyone should observe Christmas. This is the only federal holiday that is questioned.

[liberal_at_heart]

61. Not many people actually observe Federal Holidays anymore. I mean yeah people

celebrate having a day off work, throw a steak on the barbeque and drink a beer, but how many actually celebrate the true meaning behind Federal Holidays?

[yeoman6987]

64. Well that is true

I'd like to increase our federal holidays quite frankly. Cinco de mayo for one. Easter Monday another. But I would also like to have a federal law saying that if you work a federal holiday then you must receive 3 times your pay that weekend or three day period around the holiday. And regulations on who can be open the actual holiday. Extreme? I don't care. Federal government needs to get involved with workers work conditions.

[liberal_at_heart]

73. Cinco de mayo. That would certainly ruffle some conservative feathers.

[merrily]

80. It ruffles some Mexican feathers, too, though.

[yeoman6987]

108. Well sincerely wouldn't want to do that

Any holiday that celebrates the rich culture of Hispanic history would be great. I guess I am saying that 10 holidays are not enough. Italy has 21 that I know of. And other European countries have that and more. Monday after Easter would be controversial too, but if it was a day off I am sure it would be ok. Easter is celebrated by candy and a nice meal by most as opposed to going to Church.

[merrily]

109. More holidays are fine. So is more vacation. But, I would object to the day after Easter.

We lose more and more separation of state by the year, it seems. Another day off doesn't make up for that.

[sinkingfeeling]

62. So Happy Holidays to you! The federal government doesn't dictate what

I say in greeting others.

[yeoman6987]

65. Lol. Certainly true.

[liberal_at_heart]

58. Dec 8 is Bodhi Day, the celebration of Buddha's enlightenment. How well received do you think

a Bodhi tree in a department store window would be? It would be perceived as yet another attack on Christmas.

[NCTraveler]

116. What percentage of their customer base celebrates Buddha's enlightenment?

Might have a little something to do with it. Also the reason so many of them now go with seasons greetings. Doesn't have as much to do with perceived offences as many would like to think. It has to do with them knowing their customers.

[liberal_at_heart]

119. That's my whole point. Business started having their employees say Happy Holidays because

they realized so many of their customers are from a diverse background and celebrate many different holidays during the month of December. Some Christians would rather not have so many people from diverse backgrounds. They would rather everyone be Christian and therefore have no reason to say Happy Holidays. Believe me I know. My evangelical Christian father lives with me. He tried to start up a tee shirt company with Christian saying on the shirts, one of them being Merry Christmas. One of the others saying One Nation Under God. He has stated he is offended by Happy Holidays so no it is not all in our heads. There are some Christians out there that are offended by Happy Holidays.

[Dont call me Shirley]

37. Happy Holidays :-)

[samsingh]

38. i think not saying Merry Christmas is disrespectual and petty

we acknowledge festivals of other religions, why should we not acknowledge the importance of Christmas to so many people around the world?

[liberal_at_heart]

46. That is exactly why people say Happy Holidays, so we can recognize not only Christmas but also

Hannukah and Winter Solstice, Bodhi Day(Dec 8.,the day Buddhists celebrate Buddha reaching enlightenment), Kwanzaa, and sometimes Ramadan.

[Arugula Latte]

94. But if you don't know if someone celebrates Xmas and it turns out they don't

but yet you wish them Merry Christmas couldn't that be considered disrespectful? That's why Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings cover all bases and are better to say.

[samsingh]

106. whether someone celebrates it or not - it's still Christmas

I don't like when people are offended if someone says Merry Christmas.

[Arugula Latte]

110. So why not wish everyone Happy Hannukah then?

It's after all, it's still Hannukah.

[seabeyond]

40. enough to even put it on bumperstickers. yes. silliness. nt

[LeftinOH]

41. Apparently there's a Straw Man out there who is preventing

people from saying "Merry Christmas" ...so, for some people, it's vitally important to show Straw Man that they aren't ashamed to say "Merry Christmas".

During this time of year at the Wal-Mart near me, the greeters agressively yell out "Merry CHRISTMAS!!!" when you walk in. It's like they've been told to say those very words and to enunciate them very clearly.

[Nye Bevan]

45. I guess I'm fortunate never to have been a victim of an "aggressive" "Merry Christmas" greeting.

You have my deepest sympathies.

[Darb]

66. I think that I can tell the difference when someone

is saying "Merry Christmas" because they feel like they are being ....what is it......victimized....or ..... stiffled.......or....... coerced..or whatever it is they feel when they hear Season's Greetings and not Merry Christmas.

I can tell, generally, by their tone.

[Nye Bevan]

71. It is just possible that you might be overthinking this. Just a little bit (nt)

[liberal_at_heart]

42. some people feel the need to make a point that Christianity is the dominant religion

which seems really weird to me because Jesus was not a domineering person. I told my dad and my brothers who are both evangelical and of the mind that the country needs to be a Christian nation that the group of Christians I admire the most are the Jehovah's witnesses. They are a very small group therefore are not obsessed with having complete dominance, power, and control. And they are willing to die for their belief in not taking blood transfusions and yet don't go around telling other people they are not allowed to get blood transfusions. I usually say Happy Holidays until I know that most of the other holidays have passed such as Winter Solstice and Hanukkah. Then I greet people with Merry Christmas.

[Xyzse]

47. What I want to get in to is Krampusnacht!

That would be so awesome.

[HappyMe]

60. I would like to get into some

Kringle right now!

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Bread/Kringle.htm

[Xyzse]

72. OMG.

WOW...

[HappyMe]

76. I'm going to give this a try.

If it's not up to snuff, I can get one at the bakery.

[Xyzse]

82. I think baking is magic, so good luck.

[HappyMe]

84. The key to baking is to measure carefully.

The temp of the liquid you dissolve yeast into is also important. But there are lots of simple things you can bake that don't involve yeast.

[Xyzse]

85. It all flies on top of my head.

I can cook, and tend to do most of the Holiday meals for the family, but baking tends to elude me.
Don't really know why.

[HappyMe]

87. Try something easy when there is no

pressure for it to come out perfectly. Don't tell anyone you are making some cookies, so there are no expectations. My cookies don't look like the picture exactly, but they are tasty.

I tend to stear away from breads and that kringle cake because I usually goof up the yeast. But every once in awhile, I think damnit, I'm going to try this again. Believe me, when I bake the process sometimes is YouTube Lucille Ball comedy gold! But that's the fun of it.

[Xyzse]

91. I guess so. You know, one day I intend to make:

One day, I intend to get to this point.
Maybe... It looks like it is too much effort.

[HappyMe]

95. Yeah, I personally would be concerned about eggs scrambling,

and the cake in the broiler cooking method. I would be willing to give that a try on a day that's warm enough to fling open the windows to clear the smoke when I burn the hell out of it.

[Xyzse]

100. Yep, but it looks Soooooo Goooood.

[HappyMe]

102. Yeah, I know.

I forgot all about the Kringle when I saw that.

[Xyzse]

111. By the way, it looks like you'll get to that point before I do.

If you do decide to bake that thing, I want pictures and a written report on how good it was.

[HappyMe]

112. Okay, will do.

[frylock]

98. it's happening tonight!

i'll be celebrating by taking my Surly Krampus out for a cruise downtown!

[Xyzse]

99. Hell Yes!

I am going to go around with Horns and Faux Fur.

[geardaddy]

68. Cyfarchion y Tymor

Season's Greetings.

[LynneSin]

75. Try this - Take a large blunt object and bang it against your head about a dozen times or so...

gotta do it hard and long enough damage so you can knock off enough IQ points there.


Or.....

Just accept the fact that this is the argument Faux News uses to rile up the Low IQ watchers of their News Channel. The people who haven't quite understood that there isn't an issue here except the fake one created by Faux News and the Religious right every season to get their panties all wound up that somehow, someway we are persecuting them.

We are not.

We (the progressives) are just including everyone. What's wrong with that?

[merrily]

77. FOX has no problem with the real war on minorities, but a huge problem with the fake

war on Christmas.

Money talks.

[tularetom]

83. Why do we do this every fucking year?

I still wish people Merry Christmas but I've been doing that since about 1946 and it's sort of hard to change.

At the same time I don't give a rats ass if somebody wishes me Happy Holidays. Or something else. Or doesn't wish me anything at all.

There are a bazillion things that Americans should be pissed off about, this ain't one of them.

[olddots]

86. fox is entertainment

Some people find fighting entertaining and fox provides fighting about something 24 hours a day.
Meanwhile they are so entertaining I would personally like to beat the shit out of all the fox entertainers and alot of thier veiwers .....The power of entertainment has messed up Christmas and pretty much ruined most holidays .

[Arugula Latte]

93. Also, it's not like "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" excludes Xmas

It could mean "Merry Xmas and Happy New Year," or whatever particular combo of holidays that person celebrates.

So these militant Christ-obsessed people just need to shove their outrage where the sun don't shine.

[frylock]

97. Frohe Krampusnacht!

[riverbendviewgal]

101. I find those who object to those who don't want to say Merry Xmas and instead say Happy Holidays

are racist.

[Cleita]

103. I agree. Some time in the Stone Age these holidays began as celebrations

of the coming new season. Over the ages they were joined to one religion or another. If you aren't a member of an Abrahamic religion or even are not a Druid or atheist, celebrating the season is quite appropriate. I know I do and have no problem wishing people Season's Greetings.

[hfojvt]

104. the controversy is NOT about what people choose

it's about PC pressure to NOT say "Merry Christmas".

It's about employers mandating what their employees can say, based on a huge minority of customers. Because "Merry Christmas" might offend some Jewish, Muslims, or Atheists. You know, 15% of the US population. Okay, maybe 25%.

So if some of the 25% are offended by hearing "Merry Christmas" some of the 75% are offended by being told they cannot (or should not) say "Merry Christmas".

Seems easy enough to understand to me, even if I am in the 90% group which is NOT offended either way.

In our society though, it seems to be a badge of honor, or maybe just a media thing, to be offended about something. "I'm mad as hell, and I'm NOT going to take it anymore!!!"

[arcane1]

105. Only assholes care about the difference n/t

[HockeyMom]

107. They include Happy NEW YEAR's too

Every consider that one? Happy HolidayS and SeasonS Greetings is not about just the religious holidays. I would think just about everyone recognizes the NEW YEAR.

[Historic NY]

113. The other day some loon was ringing at the VFD....

he was complaining that immediately the electronic display sign should have Happy Hoildays taken down. The old guys (70's) there told him no they wouldn't and told to go to the police to complain. I laughed

[nichomachus]

114. For me, it's no different than saying "Happy Birthday."

I say Happy Birthday to people when I know it's their birthday -- or Happy Anniversary, or whatever.

If I know someone celebrates Christmas, I will say Merry Christmas. If I know they celebrate Hannukah or Kwanza or whatever, I will give an appropriate good wish. I will wish my Jewish friends Happy New Year at the Jewish New Year.

If I don't know how they celebrate, then I will say Happy Holidays, because almost everyone celebrates something this time of year -- if only New Years.

However, saying Merry Christmas to everyone you see is pretty much the same as saying Happy Birthday to everyone you meet -- just because it's your birthday. It's just stupid.

[Orsino]

115. This is America. It's Happy Fucking Fourth, and why are we doing this in December? n/t

[Rex]

117. Seriously, the holiday is such a commercial affair now that Merry Xmas

means just that to me and has nothing to do with Xtians. I always say Seasons Greetings. I like it, it is what I stick with.