If anyone wants to discuss the tactics of the Anarchist Black Bloc

[ellenrr]

I'm all for it.
But the conversation needs to be deeper than "They're all provocateurs".
period. end of sentence.
There are a whole lot of people on du who apparently know who is doing what, as if in the chaos of the situation you can, by reading a few newspaper articles, know what is going on.
How many of those who know they are all provocateurs are in Oakland?
How many of you who know they are all provocateurs have been or are involved in street protest or in Occupy Oakland?

Even people who are involved cannot speak for everyone.
If 10 people bust a window on 10 different occasions -
do you know what each person's motive is?
Or you just blanketly condemning property destruction?

Sure if that is your position, fine. But don't assume everyone who breaks a window is a vandal.
Before you make a generalization you should educate yourself about anarchism.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Black Bloc.
But I damn sure am not going to make an ass out of myself by talking in generalities and taking a stand with no information.
If the only information you have is MSM, and you are on the same side as the right-wing in your self-righteous condemnation, don't you think you should question yourself?

[stone space]

1. The distinction betwen Agents Provocateurs and sincere assholes...

...is hardly worth the efforts of discernment.

Both have roughly the same effect, and they reinforce each other.

Lurie told Berkeleyside: “The vast majority of people there were peaceful, but a small group (5-15 people) of black bloc / anarchist agitators continually engaged in acts of vandalism, including tagging buildings with spray paint, breaking windows, and overturning trash cans. I had photographs of these acts, but some in the group saw me taking pictures, at which point I was surrounded and forced to delete all my pictures. I don’t know what would have happened to me if I had refused, but I definitely felt physically threatened.”

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2014/12/06/breaking-post-ferguson-demo-in-downtown-berkeley-march-continues-to-berkeley-police-hq/

And anybody using threats and intimidation against nonviolent protestors with cameras is most definitely not on our side.

[ellenrr]

2. Just the kind of intelligent conversation I was hoping for! lol

thanks!

[PotatoChip]

5. +1

[bemildred]

3. MSM tells you what it wants you to think, not what it really thinks.

And that is why they are useless.

[marble falls]

4. People who are placed outside the system use the tools at hand to make the changes needed to survive

excluded from the ballot they may choose the bullet. Sow the winds, reap the whirlwinds.

[gwheezie]

6. I have no idea who they are

But I not against provoking the police as s tactic.

[stone space]

7. Provoking the police after giving them all that military hardware...

...strikes me as tactically unwise.

[gwheezie]

8. I don't think it's a first line tactic

But there is always the risk that just standing there is enough to provoke them. I'm not talking about burning and looting but getting in their face and calling them out? People already are being killed how much more subdued should we be?

[stone space]

9. I don't advocate passivity.

But intentionally provoking the police while threatening and intimidating nonviolent protestors who have cameras, as seems to be happening here, is counterproductive.

Especially in a context where many folks are demanding body cams for cops.

If somebody is so embarrassed by their own actions that they feel the need to threaten protestors with cameras who record it, maybe it's not the protestors with cameras who are the problem.

Maybe the problem is with those who threaten protestors with cameras and attempt to provoke violence.