A moment of silence to remember Pearl Harbor

[Tab]

It was many years ago today that Pearl Harbor was bombed; most people at that time didn't even know where Pearl Harbor was, but they soon would. It was the straw that dragged us into WWII which we could no longer afford to ignore. Many people died that day, and many, many more would in the ensuing years. My father was an officer in WWII, WWII and its demands on life framed the lives of all ages.

Here's to wishing it never happened, but understanding how it changed history forever on.

[lonestarnot]

1. .

[ileus]

2. ...

My Father was stationed there between the Korean war and Bikini Atomic tests.

[yeoman6987]

3. Done!

[RiverLover]

4. Yes. Never forget.

[Cooley Hurd]

5. .

[mountain grammy]

7. A beautiful memorial. Everyone should see it and pay their respects.

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. ...

[KingCharlemagne]

8. On this same day, forces of the Soviet Red Army successfully consolidated

a counteroffensive to push back forces of the Nazi German Army from the outskirts of Moscow (essentially accomplishing the same strategic coup they would repeat to such devastating effect at Stalingrad later in '42 and '43).

It was truly a global 'greatest generation,' eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow#Soviet_counteroffensive

[matt819]

9. Question

In, say, 1934, did Americans observe a moment of silence for the start of the civil war 73 years earlier in 1861? Will we have a moment of silence in 2074 for 9/11. Yes, many died and sure we are doomed to repeat history if we forget it but the seaports of things hAve bugged me for some time, though not quite 73 years.

[steve2470]

10. .............

[DinahMoeHum]

11. .

[ChazII]

12. .

[RoccoR5955]

13. Never forget

That they knew about Pearl Harbor, before it happened.

[KingCharlemagne]

17. Who is this mysterious 'they' to whom you refer? - nt

[RoccoR5955]

23. The powers that be. n/t

[KingCharlemagne]

24. Sigh. Do you mean FDR personally? - nt

[RoccoR5955]

28. Sheesh!

FDR wanted to get involved in the war in Europe, but there was no support in the US for it, even though we were sending supplies there. He needed some method to enter the war, and this was the perfect opportunity.
Just as Bush wanted to attack Iraq, and let 9/11 happen.

[KingCharlemagne]

29. Got any proof for those suppositions? - nt

[7962]

31. No, but that never matters. Its a coverup, remember?

[NuclearDem]

34. The aircraft carriers!!!11!

[RoccoR5955]

40. There is proof all over the place.

Here's a link: http://bit.ly/1G4F793

[7962]

66. OK, I read the synopsis on Wiki, which disproves pretty much all of it.

Thanks for the link.

[7962]

30. I knew someone would ruin it for everybody. And even get in a 9/11 reference too.

Sheesh.

[KingCharlemagne]

32. It's not enough to let the honored dead RIP. And I really hate that every PH Day, I have

to go through this monumental effort to debunk the anti-FDR conspiracy shit. I guess I should save the debunking material in a folder for quick and easy deployment, but I never learn.

[RoccoR5955]

41. They shall rest in peace

When the TRUTH is finally told, and the standard propaganda goes by the wayside!
All I am doing is letting the truth come out.
What's the matter, don't like a little truth-seeking?
Sorry.

[KingCharlemagne]

42. Actually, I don't like your tone. Nothing anyone says, no body of

evidence or work of historical scholarship, ever convinces your type. Instead, anyone who presents evidence that refutes or debunks your tomfoolery is simply made part of the conspiracy to silence the TRUTH.

[RoccoR5955]

47. And I don't like your tone

That I should accept what I am told, like a good little sheep.

I sent a link that shows much evidence that debunks the story that people are constantly being fed.
I have not seen any evidence that refutes what I have seen that goes against the official story.

I also do not think that I should do the homework for everyone who cannot accept the fact, that often times, the "official" story of things is meant to keep people in line, and is far from the truth.

[NuclearDem]

59. Still haven't seen you produce what you believe to be the facts.

[NuclearDem]

43. Are you ever going to present evidence

or are you just going to rant and rave?

[RoccoR5955]

48. Look at the link that I previously posted

I am not ranting and raving, I just see contrary evidence to the official story.

[NuclearDem]

49. All you need was post a google search link about advance-knowledge CTs.

You didn't actually present an argument.

[Archae]

37. FDR and the General Staff did know Japan would attack them, they just didn't know where.

There was indications of attacks in the Philippines, Guam, etc.

But no one knew exactly where, and they were sure it would be attacks from the Japanese army, not their navy.

There was a lot of racism and stereotyping in the assessments as well, they all wore thick glasses, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and the battleship Admirals still ruled the US Navy.

[7962]

67. Which is exactly why the "aircraft carrier" proof is baloney.

At the start of WW2, the battleship was still seen as the big dog of every naval force. The carrier hadnt been proven to be an effective weapon yet. If FDR knew what was happening and where, he would've made sure the battleships were out to sea instead of the carriers. Because it would make NO sense to sacrifice the main part of your Pacific naval force just to get into the war.
But I guess thats the genius of the plan!!! Its so stupid NOBODY will expect it!!

[AngryAmish]

57. No, the aliens.

[longship]

80. Absolute rubbish!

Read about it and weep.

Edwin Layton, the guy who was intligence officer for both Kitchen and Nimitz.

Here:
Edwin T. Layton

He wrote a great book about the battles between Pearl and DC intelligence staffs. It is a compelling read.
And I Was There is all about Pearl Harbor and Midway, the latter when Pearl knew everything that the Japanese would do, and the former when they knew nothing. Nor did Washington. And anything they knew was misinterpreted as an attack on the western Pacific, not Pearl Harbor.

Those are the clear facts from the guy at the front lines throughout the entire war. He even accompanied Nimitz at the surrender in 1945 in Tokyo Bay, with a 45 caliber at his side in case a Japanese soldier might choose to shoot the Admiral.

So, no. FDR was not a conspirator about Pearl Harbor. It was a big fuck up, like 9-11, like JFK, like MLK, like RFK, etc. History is messy. Those who trot out conspiracies for historic events often have no evidence to support themselves. They use mystery mongering instead of evidence.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a surprise. And all the evidence says so. Layton's book lays the intelligence bare. I suggest you read it.

Best regards,
longship

[Odin2005]

14. ...................

[sarge43]

15. .

Fair winds and following seas.

[irisblue]

16. .

I can do many things because of them.

[oneshooter]

18. I am going to have a big party today.

Today is my Birthday.

[yuiyoshida]

20. Happy Birthday!

[yuiyoshida]

19. I have always heard George Takei

Last edited Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

talk about his family going to a Japanese Internment camp during WWII. MY grandparents who were Japanese and Hawaiian never mentioned it, so I am sure they were part of the people who were rounded up and sent to the mainland for internment camp. I really wish someone would tell me but its a taboo subject. I have asked my parents several times, and I get the royal silence treatment. I guess I will never know, what happened to Japanese already living for generations in Hawaii.

[CBGLuthier]

22. Here is an interesting article about the Hawaiians

It seems that out of 158,000 Japanese-Americans in Hawaii only 2,000 were sent to the camps on the mainland. On the other hand all of Hawaii was under martial law for the duration of the war.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/10983.htm

[yuiyoshida]

25. Thanks for that...

Last edited Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

My grandparents would probably been about the age of George Takei, so maybe they were never sent to the internment camps. 2,000 Japanese did go, but my family were Hawaiian and Japanese mix. It may have been they were under this harsh Martial Law... I don't know. I suppose I will never know if no one talks. If they are not talking about it, it must be too unpleasant to talk about. Maybe my parents know, or don't know but they refuse to talk about it and find December 7th a very uncomfortable day.

I can understand that. When Japan had its disaster not long ago, with the Earthquake and Tsunami there were a lot of right wingers, saying the Japanese deserved all they got, because of Pearl Harbor. I suppose that was in addition to the countless people killed by both Atomic Bombs at Hiroshima and Nakasaki.

[oldandhappy]

21. ,,,

[MissDeeds]

26. ...

[jwirr]

27. .... I was three months old and in a movie theater with my parents when we heard.

[amandabeech]

33. . . .

One for my Dad and one for each of my uncles who served in WWII.

[Lugnut]

35. .......

...........

[Omaha Steve]

36. Pearl is on my bucket list

[MoonRiver]

38. Both my parents served in WWII. Never forget.

[tblue37]

39. My father was there. He was a 19-year-old airman at the time. nt

[AngryAmish]

58. My father was in Ireland, cheering on the Germans.

Changed his mind later.

[stevenleser]

44. .

[Rhiannon12866]

45. ...

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. .

[pintobean]

50. .

[boomer55]

51. Too bad so many don't realize what a set up it was. :(

[NuclearDem]

53. Ugh. Not another one of these advance knowledge CTs again.

[boomer55]

54. Ugh not another one of these who believe

The government would never provoke another power and then let an attack happen to bring the public in line.

[NuclearDem]

55. Funny how AK conspiracy theorists can't provide any compelling evidence.

And just simply appeal to emotion.

[boomer55]

60. Yeah funny that huh?

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/11/29/declassified-memo-hinted-of-1941-hawaii-attack-

[NuclearDem]

63. Ah, the December 4 memo.

The memo that vaguely warned about a Japanese offensive across the Pacific with specific interests in the West Coast, Panama, and Hawaii.

You are aware the Japanese attacked more than just Pearl Harbor on December 7th, right?

[boomer55]

69. Next you'll be telling us you believe the gulf of Tonkin incident

[boomer55]

70. Or the Lusitania was an innocent ocean liner

[NuclearDem]

73. Also no, because the evidence very clearly and irrefutably

shows the Lusitania was carrying weapons.

Now, are you ever going to answer my question?

[NuclearDem]

71. Actually, no, I won't.

Because the evidence very clearly and irrefutably shows the incident was fabricated.

The evidence also shows Pearl Harbor was a result of bad intelligence and overconfidence, not a conspiracy to drag the US into the war. Deliberate misinterpretation and twisting of historical documents and statements doesn't show anything other than the CTs own ignorance and agenda.

By the way, you still haven't answered my question: are you aware Japan attacked other places than Pearl Harbor on the same day?

[boomer55]

76. Absolutely. Minor in history and world war 2 buff

If you wanna nerd out on it with me I'd be more than happy too.

[boomer55]

61. Super funny -- I could go and on but you won't read or care

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8932197/Pearl-Harbour-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html

[boomer55]

62. Last one

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/12/06/pearl-harbor-roosevelt-knew/

[SidDithers]

72. I miss David Swanson's annual "Pearl Harbor was LIHOP" articles...

They were always good for a laugh.

Sid

[NuclearDem]

74. I'm waiting for someone to inevitably cite Stinnet's ridiculous book.

That was about as grounded in reality as the rest of these conspiracy theories.

[SidDithers]

75. Just went looking for Swanson's yearly missive...

and found it at countercurrents.

http://www.countercurrents.org/swanson061214.htm



Sid

[msanthrope]

52. To all the brave who died there...

[Cha]

56. ..

[rppper]

64. Iconic picture of the USS Shaw exploding...

Despite her forward magazine exploding, she was repaired and fought the rest of the war unscathed...

[irisblue]

68. Geez, when the Imperial Japanese Navy saw her again

several hard swallows and scrotal tightening occurred.

[neverforget]

65. RIP George Jarding (19 yrs old), KIA USS Oklahoma, Dec 7, 1941

My dad's cousin.

http://navy.togetherweserved.com/usn/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=DecorationExt&ID=2236925

[Eleanors38]

77. A salute to Doris Miller, awarded the Navy Cross.

[shenmue]

78. ...

[applegrove]

79. .