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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsExplaining white privilege to a broke white person
http://occupywallstreet.net/story/explaining-white-privilege-broke-white-personYears ago, some feminist on the internet told me I was "Privileged."
"THE FUCK!?!?" I said.
I came from the kind of Poor that people don't want to believe still exists in this country. Have you ever spent a frigid northern Illinois winter without heat or running water? I have. At twelve years old, were you making ramen noodles in a coffee maker with water you fetched from a public bathroom? I was. Have you ever lived in a camper year round and used a random relative's apartment as your mailing address? We did. Did you attend so many different elementary schools that you can only remember a quarter of their names? Welcome to my childhood.
So when that feminist told me I had "white privilege," I told her that my white skin didn't do shit to prevent me from experiencing poverty. Then, like any good, educated feminist would, she directed me to Peggy McIntosh's 1988 now-famous piece, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack."
After one reads McIntosh's powerful essay, it's impossible to deny that being born with white skin in America affords people certain unearned privileges in life that people of another skin color simple are not afforded. For example:
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bravenak
(34,648 posts)Being poor is fucking hard. They only have one privilege. Not being black. It's not much, but it is a bit helpful.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)they may have many more privileges than just not being black like Julius Erving (poor guy).
being male
being cis
being straight
being Christian
being able-bodied
and I may have forgotten some. There's no end to the privileges.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)More about their feelings than the actual reality. Everybody has feelings....
And poor white men are increasingly being left behind by white society. Which leads to petty crime and imprisonment. I see poor whites becoming the new other soon. I live with a lot of them in my part of town. They don't FEEL white. They feel poor.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Life was sweet for white guys in the 1950s and 60s, I'll admit. A woman's place was in the home and blacks too knew their place. A white man with a high school diploma could get a good union job and make a living that could support his family.
Today, making that living is much harder. Manufacturing jobs by and large have gone overseas and he has to compete for the few good jobs that are left with women, African-Americans and if he's in the construction trades, people who are in the country illegally and therefore can be hired cheaply and fired with impunity if they complain.
All of the advances of other groups have come at the expense of working class white men.
About the only privilege left to a white man is that is that if he gets stopped for a traffic violation, the cop is a lot less likely to panic if he reaches for his wallet and blow him to oblivion.
I know what you mean, bean.. 
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)but then quickly embraced it because she gets to claim male privilege against the men.
Gotta take the good with the bad.
My question is, why do some people think it is so important to tell some poor people how privileged they are?
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)they're privileged.
She's trying to tell white people -- no matter where their position on the economic ladder -- they still have an edge over black people in the same situation.
belzabubba333
(1,237 posts)make me priviledged it just makes THEM bullies.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)That's different than arguing any white is better off than any black. It actually does a disservice to blacks.
"She's trying to tell white people -- no matter where their position on the economic ladder -- they still have an edge over black people in the same situation."
Quantess
(27,630 posts)In western modern societies, women generally can make ends meet, and sometimes fare very well, thanks to often being very well educated and very hard workers. But men are overpaid in comparison to women, in general.
What do you have to say to that?
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)What is being described by the term "white privilege" are basic human rights that are the birthright of all human beings.
Classifying it as "privilege" implies that said "privileges" can be revoked by some privilege-issuing authority. Like they do with drivers' licenses, now called a "privilege" when it used to be the universal human "right to travel".
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)It is acknowledging that white people, in the same situation, are often treated better than black people.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)It's no privilege to be accorded basic human rights - and even that isn't actually happening, unless you have the money to buy "justice" in our corrupt courts.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)The word semantic means "meaning". Words have meaning. And the message conveyed by classifying basic human rights as privileges is that the standard you consider as baseline is even lower than that.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And 'privilege' means 'private law'. Those who are 'privileged' aren't treated the same as those who are not, they are allowed to do more, be more. They aren't held to the same standards as others.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)That's it, in a nutshell.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts) Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)As you can see below from others who feel the same way as I, it ain't just one.
This kind of rhetoric is what gets us killed in elections. The Democratic Party should not be associated with this kind of divide-and-conquer paradigm.
It's political suicide, as the results of the last election demonstrates.
MLK talked about judging people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin, and that lesson seems to have been completely rejected by those who are relentlessly focused on race.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)When you deliberately or ignorantly twist the meaning of privilege to suit your own ends, you distort the very real concept of privilege and make it harder to address the issue.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)even more so than this crazy thinking has done already
How many more black votes are you going to attract by promoting "white privilege"? We already get 90%+ every time.
How many white votes are you going to alienate by promoting this nonsense? Tons. This stuff is political poison and extremely detrimental to the party.
As if we didn't have enough problems already with the white middle/lower class vote, now you're in their face telling them it's their fault they are suffering because they didn't take enough advantage of their "privilege".
Do you at all consider the consequences of this rhetoric? Or are you perfectly satisfied having the party in a death spiral?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Hey, were you one of the voices telling gays that they "wanted a pony" back in 2007, too? Same logic. "Your rights are bad for my political party, so I am against your rights!"
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)I thought we were talking about "privileges" here.
The record shows that I am the one talking about rights and I'm being told that I'm wrong to do so. Perhaps you ought to review it.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)because throwing fallacies in place of an argument doesn't, and shouldn't, deserve an answer.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Or winning over more African Americans. It is about working towards equality and justice.
You seem to suggest that as long as African Americans are voting democratic, then the status quo is fine. That is absurd.
White privilege is a white problem and an African American problem. You are part of the problem when you deny white privilege exists or worse, claim it is reverse racism (which you are doing).
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)This divide-and-conquer strategy of bucketing people by race and saying they're privileged or disadvantaged thereby is part of the problem. It judges people on what color they are.
The solution is to stop judging people by what color they are.
What are "white" people supposed to do, apologize for being white? Be extra nice to black people because they're black - thereby patronizingly perpetuating racism? Self-flaggelate in penance for the crime of being born with pale skin?
What possible solution to this theory of "white privilege" is being proposed? All these complaints, and I don't see a single proposal for any solution - probably because everyone deep down recognizes that the only real solution to racism is to stop classifying people by race. Which of course, would mean that saying people are privileged based on their race would be a no-no.
Let's hear some solutions to the notion of "white privilege". If there ain't any, perhaps the idea of sticking a finger in the eye of people just because they have white skin isn't the wisest way to go.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)that defining the reality of racial inequality is reverse privilege.
Own it my white brother. YOu are and have been advantaged because people with darker skin are disadvantaged. If you cannot admit and accept that, then we cannot work on policies that will fix it. We have to agree on the problem before we can discuss solutions. If you cannot met us there, then you are not part of the solution.
Frankly, I wish you would just be honest and tell us what you really think of African-Americans.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)It's nice to have all the ridiculous strawman arguments about privilege compiled in one place.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Problem is, millions of bigots (many of them in positions of power and influence) continue to judge people negatively based solely on their darker complexion, and pretending race isn't an issue won't make them stop doing that.
Your "solution" appears to be the equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,546 posts)It's about the fact no matter what a person of color does, they can't change the hue of their skin.
Cha
(296,795 posts)
BklnDem75
(2,918 posts)While every other race gets arrested because their skin color was different, is that a basic human right?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Why do some white people think 'white privilege' is all about money? That would insinuate (imo) that all black people are poor...see I am white, but I am broke - so I get no privilege (because all black people are naturally broke is the jist of the msg) imo.
'White privilege' (imo) is more about institutionalized racism, then a persons paycheck. "White privilege' is more about the disenfranchisement of entire black communities, than how much some white person makes an hour at Home Depot.
WP is about getting a loan at a bank. WP is about getting pulled over while DWB. WP means being in a certain club.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)Your average Joe who is getting it from all sides is going to hear that and respond with a pair of middle fingers. This "privilege" meme is absolutely horrible politics. Telling Joe Lower-Middle Class that to struggle to feed himself and keep the lights on is a privileged state of affairs is outright offensive.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)was not only able to understand this without getting offended, but to write persuasively about it.
Maybe you give the "average Joe" too little credit.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)White people don't see themselves as "white people". They see themselves as German, Italian, British, Irish, Swedish, Russian, etc. in origin. "White" covers a very diverse set of cultures, many of whom don't see eye to eye at all, and don't make common cause with each other (e.g. Polish and German, not very comfortable relationship there).
So when there's an assertion that a "white privilege" is being able to live around people that look and act like you, that's not true at all. I'm Italian, and if there are any significant number of other Italians within two hundred miles of here, I don't know about it. I'd have to move to New Jersey (almost a thousand miles away) in order to be in an "Italian neighborhood".
That's a significantly different situation than black Americans, most of whom do have common cause and roots from the legacy of slavery. There is a coherent "black" culture in this country but there is no coherent "white" culture.
I can't see where this line of thinking goes but to alienate wide swaths of the electorate at a time when we can ill-afford to alienate anybody.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Not any of the three or four nationalities I know of that my ancestors came from. Do people judge you based on your Italian roots -- can they know for sure without having to ask or to be told?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)It is about the societal benefits and advantages that being white afford you is contrast to the oppression of black people.
White privilege is not about how whites, as a culture, behave. It is about how society, as a whole, treats white people differently than black people.
You keep fear-mongering about losing elections as a result of discussing race. DOn't bury it, don't run from it. Racism is a problem in this country that needs addressing.
If you deny racism exists, then you are in the wrong place and I have little more to say to you.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)It sounds like the writer did INITIALLY get offended. n/t
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)The "you're Privileged" argument, as initially presented to them wasn't persuasive and had the person not made the decision to investigate further, they might still be of the opinion "THE FUCK!?!?" If the initial "You're Privileged" argument is made poorly enough, some people won't even be willing to read an argument (like McIntosh's essay) that explains it better. Personally, I've seen a number of people make that argument, fail in their own attempt to persuade, and jump right to calls of racism rather than directing anyone to a more polished and persuasive form of the argument.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)That's all it means. It has nothing to do with a "privileged state of affairs."
That you would find that offensive is puzzling.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nor does that mean you must use it to beat someone over the head that is poor. Yet the term and fact remain and are real issues.
If you dress up a poor white person in expensive cloths and also have a rich black person that already dresses in expensive clothes show up at a very expensive restaurant (neither have ever been there and nobody knows them there) at the same time and there is only one seat open...who do you think is going to get it?
alarimer
(16,245 posts)THAT is a part of what they mean by "privilege." It is a built-in advantage that usually, but not always, applies when people are white. For another example, they are almost never scrutinized or followed in stores.
In video game terms, white and male is the lowest difficulty setting (I stole that from John Scalzi). It doesn't mean it's easy; it just means it's not quite as hard.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Male privilige starts from birth in many families. There are a few token families where daughters are treated better, but those are the exceptions.
I was always a smart and serious student but I was often treated like a complete and total idiot for being a blonde female. That no, I couldn't possibly know anything judging from my outward appearance.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)A lot of the lowest paying work is so-called "Women's Work": child and elder care, for example.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)With high expectations that the workers be well educated and well paid.
Also I wish for senior citizens in nursing care to get better conditions! Nursing home and long-term-care workers have an even worse situation, where they are paid shit wages and don't have time to respond to seniors who yell for help.
I think it is a travesty that some of the most crucial and vital professions (teacher, day care worker, nurse, nurse's assistant) are so crappily compensated. We all suffer as a result.
raccoon
(31,105 posts)
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Poor people--black and white--have to listen to enough sanctimonious lectures every day from people who have real privileges in our society.
Lecturing a manual white male laborer about how privileged he is not likely to work out very well.
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)To be an Hidalgo was to be a member of the lowest rung of Spanish nobility.
You owned no lands, you had no fortune, you were dirt poor and pretty much on your won.
But there was one right that all Hidalgos had and no others had.
The right to bear arms.
And that was privilege enough.
With that, all other rights followed sooner or later.
When you see the reaction of police when confronted by white or black people, it is interesting to see that the right of whites to hold those arms is never questioned. Whereas a black person will be shot on sight for holding something that might look like a weapon. Even if it's just a wallet, or a sandwich, or a bag of skittles.
belzabubba333
(1,237 posts)When you see the reaction of police when confronted by white or black people, it is interesting to see that the right of whites to hold those arms is never questioned. Whereas a black person will be shot on sight for holding something that might look like a weapon. Even if it's just a wallet, or a sandwich, or a bag of skittles.
why did no one at the bundy ranch get shot or even arrested?
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)White privilege is the first thing that popped into my head.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)We blame Republicans for the 'divide and conquer' strategy but then go whole heartedly into it ourselves.
Yes, there are certain privileges that apply to being white. There are others that apply to being male. That is a fact, yet rubbing people's noses in this, especially people who did not particularly benefit from these accidents of birth is not the sort of thing that a party which wants to build a broad coalition engages in.
So you're talking to a guy who lost his good job years ago to outsourcing or to cheap illegal workers and is now working at a crappy low wage job if he's lucky enough to be working at all. You feel that if he was a rational person he should be voting for Democrats because Democrats are the party of the working class (well sort of) and Republicans represent the ruling class.
But first, you're going to lecture him on White Privilege.
Really?
And then you expect him to vote for the party you favor.
Really?
Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #18)
belzabubba333 This message was self-deleted by its author.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)NONE, so that's not why poor/working class whites are voting republican.
walkingman
(7,577 posts)why so few white who are dependent on "entitlements" vote Democratic.
It is about education.
They have been taught from birth that our system affords those that work hard, do the right thing, will be rewarded for their efforts. When that doesn't happen it must be because "others" are getting more of their fair share than they are simply because of their minority status. But in reality the system of free market exceptionalism has always been a lie. It has always been about maintaining power and control of the masses. This is where education is the only method of exposing the lies.
Peace
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)to make it seem like minorities and feminists are out to get white people.
Orrex
(63,172 posts)It seems deliberately conceived to make the listener defensive and to ignore any rational argument that follows it.
I explicitly acknowledge that I have clearly benefitted from it many times over, but even so I see the term as problematic. All the moreso when one is presented with a checklist of "privileges," many of which might have little or no bearing on one's actual life.
If the most important thing is to preserve the term, then it's fine. If the most important thing is to get people to open their eyes about what "white privilege" really is and how they benefit from it, then perhaps another strategy might be more effective.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is to frame issues in a way that is difficult to distort.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)There is some justification for that belief.
Women and minorities entering professions once restricted to white men in this country did increase competition just at the time that these opportunities were shrinking thanks to outsourcing and automation. This largely effected working class and lower management class men at the worst possible time.
If you're a white guy lost out on a job you were qualified for to a woman or a black man or worse yet to a black woman and you've been reading that that company has been told to diversify you're not exactly going to look internally for answers as to why you did not get that job.
The fact that there's a whole right wing entertainment industry out there ready and eager to tell them that they are victims of feminazis and angry black men who want their jobs--if they have them--is beside the point. The feelings were there already.
Now imagine some privileged little twit comes along and tells Mr. White Working Class Unemployed Guy that he is privileged just by possessing pale skin and a penis. Are you going to be attracted to anything that this person or people like him or her tells you?
If we want to build a coalition of the 99%, which in my opinion is the only thing that is going to save this country then, while not denying racism, sexism, homophobia and working to end them we need to concentrate on the issues that we can all agree on.
840high
(17,196 posts)
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)would be in construction -- roofing or brick laying.
Other than a few, specific, construction trades, if you lost your job to "cheap illegal workers", then you probably had a pretty crappy job to begin with. Hanging chickens for Tyson Foods, cleaning hotel rooms, or running a string-trimmer.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Meatpacking's not a job I would want to do but union protection could and did mitigate the worst of the abuses--at least those which affect their members--and a person could make a living doing it.
Service jobs were never unionized, it is true, even during the union heyday. These, back in the day, were largely held by women and minorities. In my humble opinion the union bosses were quite shortsighted in not working to organize them.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)would you give them a lecture about how "privileged" they were, and explain to them that in the game of life they were lucky to be at the "lowest difficulty setting"? Probably not. But you certainly could talk about things like racist cops who target minorities and how this is wrong.
Often you can tell whether someone is really interested in addressing an issue, or if they just want to stir up antipathy, by the way they frame it. There is a reason that Barack Obama and Joe Biden have never used the phrase "white privilege" in any of their public speeches.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Do not benefit by framing the issue in a divisive manner.
Too often, that's what I see. I don't think very many people respond positively to: "I know your life sucks, but other people have it worse".
I've had some tough times in my past too, but I think we should be working toward improving the lives of everyone who is suffering, not trying to quantify the magnitude of the suffering so that we can point to a clear loser.
Dr. Xavier
(278 posts)If I can do it, you can do it. I have known poor people of all races and I have known wealthy people of all races; and the only difference is that the wealthy people were either very serendipitous (don't give me that crap that they were hard-working, some of the poorest people, I know are very hard working) or they were white.
This poor poor pitiful me argument is a different version of the bootstraps argument. Yeah, everyone starts from the same line and the playing field is level for all. Horse manure, even if you are born dirt poor if you are white the fight is going to be a little easier. And if you can't accept that then you're blind to reality. Don't forget the KKK was made up of the white trash, while, the respectable citizens joined the CCC (Council of Conservative Citizens).
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Because there was nothing in this OP about people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
Dr. Xavier
(278 posts)and the woman who woke up in my bed claims to be my wife and while she looks vaguely familiar...
Actually, the bootstrap argument is always given by people, who like the author of the article, pulled themselves out of poverty. Ronnie Rayguns hisownself was known to say it many times. As it is appropriate to bring up because it is used to promote self-responsibility, which is a favorite theme for those who take none, which is usually the same privileged jerks, who deny that privilege exists.
Dr. Xavier
(278 posts)I realize that it may be construed in such a way that I am disagreeing with the article. I'm not, I'm actually trying to respond to the article's main point, which is that human nature will always try to rationalize away the things which challenge our core beliefs but as with all rationalization it doesn't make the problem go away.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)It's better to be a broke ass white person than a broke ass black person but it's not hard to see how that doesn't make a broke ass white person feel better about his or her plight.
What's ironic is that most movements to bring them together fail.
raging moderate
(4,292 posts)When Black people talk about white privilege, they are not saying that human rights are only privileges or that white people are never poor or oppressed. They are only pointing out that whatever situation is bad, it will be made harder for Black people by any racist that gets the chance.
They are saying that racist whites behave as though these human rights were privileges. Of course, these same racists often find other excuses to deny basic human rights to some of their fellow human beings, because that is their main source of pleasure, and they are delusional.
Back in the old country, in Europe, the cultural forebears of these racists had the same anxious itch to deny "privileges" to somebody somewhere somehow. There was a time before they had seen any Black people. At that time, they found other excuses to designate certain groups subhuman and deny them "privileges."
Naturally, these ancient excuses still survive, to one extent or another. It seems to me that the larger amplitude of their animus against Black people is due only to the (usually) easily identified physical difference, which seems to them to be a more dependable set of markers for recognizing someone they imagine to be their legal prey.
White people, try to understand what the Black people are going through. They never know where it's going to come from next! And these white racists seem to have hearts of stone! They give no quarter and take no pity, no matter how dire the suffering in front of their eyes. They act as though even relief of agony is somehow a privilege that must be earned, partly by being white.
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
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pnwmom
(108,955 posts)often experience the same kind of harassment that poor black people experience.
And they do.
They get stalked in stores, they are required to show ID when a white person is not, they get stopped by the police for driving around in new cars.
Talk to almost any African American doctor or lawyer or engineer. They'll tell you.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)But I rather be LeBron James than Billy Bob at the filling station.
If that's too crude a comparison I rather be a college educated black professional who works in a bank than a white high school drop out who works at Wal -Mart.
You know they have a term for poor white folks that is every bit as offensive as the n word.
That's why telling a broke white person they are privileged will likely earn you nothing more than their animus.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)to be treated like the movie producer Charles Belk than they are to be treated like LeBron James.
And the writer in the OP isn't telling broke white people they are privileged. She's saying that institutional racism in the U.S. is real, and even broke white people don't have to experience it the way any black person might.
http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2014/08/charles_belk_in_beverly_h.php
Over the weekend I noticed that producer Charles Belk had posted a lengthy, angry account on Facebook about being detained by Beverly Hills police, handcuffed on the curb and denied access to a phone or a lawyer for six hours after he was stopped while walking to feed his parking meter on La Cienega Boulevard. He is black. The police say he was identified as bank robbery suspect. Belt's post has been shared and liked more than 34,000 times on Facebook and he has been interviewed about the incident by, among others, NBC News. This incident clearly has legs beyond the BHPD's explanation that he fit the description and they regret his inconvenience. Belk's Facebook post has triggered what can only be called a massive outpouring of comments from people who feel they have similarly been detained by police essentially for being black. The media coverage? International.
SNIP
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Person A
College educated African American professional, works in a banks as a branch manager earns $60,000 a year, lives in a middle class suburb and sends his children to well funded suburban schools.
Person B
High school dropout works at Wal-Mart earns $17,000.00 a year, lives in Section 8 housing, sends his children to underfunded rural schools.
I will leave it others to say if they rather be Person A or Person B
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Person B, white high-school drop out.
Both are driving a late-model Mercedes in an urban or rural neighborhood. (Person B is alone but driving for his employer.)
Which one is more likely to get stopped for no reason by the police?
The black professional -- because institutional white privilege is real.
How come white Billy Bobs can carry assault weapons through a crowded Walmart and Target and the police say they are allowed to because of the 2nd amendment -- but a black 12 year old with a toy gun in an empty Cleveland park gets killed within 2 seconds after police arrive?
Because institutional white privilege is real.
How come black male teens are 21 times more likely to be killed by police than white male teens? It's not because they commit 21 times more crimes.
It's because institutional white privilege is real.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Like the Reverend Ike said "if you have enough green they forget you're black." That's a gross simplification of course but no middle class person of any race is going to trade places with a broke person of any race.
I rather be stopped by the cops in a Mercedes I own than not being stopped in a Mercedes i'm driving for my employer.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)the same way it protects white people.
Even if black people have enough money to live in a safe neighborhood and to send their kids to good schools, it doesn't mean they aren't afraid for their children every time they step out of their house. Afraid because of the police -- the same people white professionals trust to help them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/nyregion/for-black-parents-shielding-children-from-talk-of-ferguson-and-garner-cannot-protect-them.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
SNIP
They weigh on me and on many black parents, regardless of our station in life, regardless of how high we have climbed in our careers. When we hear about them, we think about our sons, and we feel vulnerable, even fearful. We worry that despite our degrees, despite our credentials, we will not be able to protect our boys from the indignities and dangers they may encounter at the hands of police.
Does it surprise you that a professional black woman should live with such anxieties in 2014? I have a master’s degree, a good job and a good salary. My husband and I own a comfortable home in New Jersey.
But I know what you may not: That black men — young and old — cannot assume that the police will treat them with the respect and courtesy that white professionals often take for granted.
Ask Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., who said this year that he had been stopped and questioned by the police in Washington, “while I was running to catch a movie, even though I happened to be a federal prosecutor.”
SNIP
CTyankee
(63,889 posts)madville
(7,404 posts)When applying it to people in poverty I sometimes get the feeling that it's being inferred that poor white people have squandered some kind of opportunity that this privilege supposedly offers them. It's like they are saying black people don't have a chance but poor white people are that way by choice because they started life with a leg up or something.
I think the overwhelming privilege that applies with greater weight and equally across all races is just straight up poverty, the haves and the have-nots. In cities with almost all-white populations the cops don't sit around and do nothing, the go out and harass, arrest and beat on the poor. In some cities that happens to be the poor black people, in others the poor Hispanics. I think overall, the poor are the punching bag in every scenario.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)It's easier to be a poor white guy than a poor black guy.
It's easier to be a middle class white guy than a middle class black guy.
It's easier to be a rich white guy than a rich black guy.
However, anybody that argues it's easier to be a poor white guy than a middle class black guy has read one too many books and actually does a disservice to the both of them.
I actually have had white friends that lived in trailers or were live in managers at hourly motels. I assure you they would have traded place with a black guy with a home and family in the suburbs in a New York minute.
George Orwell said "some ideas are so bizarre that only an intellectual could believe them" and the idea that a middle class black person's lot in life is worse than a working class white person is one of them.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)There are ways in which we are all privileged and disadvantaged. It is possible to be disadvantaged because you are poor and privileged because you are White at the same time.
TheKentuckian
(25,020 posts)bickering about the terminology but some folks are heavily invested in the term to the point of preferring it not being understood than to attempt more digestable verbiage.
Some maintain that black people have decided this terminology and we are the affected so that carries the day, I find it pretty strange as I never got my ballot and have never in real life ever heard a black person utter the phrase unless you count TV.
Does it exist? Oh fuck yes. Is the terminology productive? Doesn't seem to be in my observation, it sets off defense mechanisms resulting in the very people who need to get it to move the needle to ignore the whole concept THAT BENEFITS THEM ANYWAY.
I don't see how some can't accept the deck is stacked against getting the concept to be internalized for enough to positively change anyway without adding willful stumbling blocks to the mix seemingly for stubbornness sake.
Yeah, I've seen the claims the term is science and to deny it tantamount to climate change denial, except the science isn't about the label but a process. The name is a place holder, if a more accurate or even just a more digestable term comes then so be it as we saw with going from the accurate yet misleading global warming to the less distortable climate change.
Here the sociological process often seems secondary to the terminology used to describe it but the name is not where the scientific aspect is, the operative science (as far as soft science can go) is WHAT IS HAPPENING, WHEN IT HAPPENS, WHERE IT HAPPENS, AND HOW IT HAPPENS.
That is the critical aspect, there is no experiment, methodology, or observation can prove or disprove a hypothesis what the proper verbiage and to pretend the phrase it's self is "science" is a strange argument on very shakey logical grounds but regularly and fiercely argued that could be let go except for the campaign is counterproductive in my view and so has negative personal consequences for myself and others who will continue to live the downside along with the folks pushing it based on pure vanity and hard headedness.
Every discussion ever is mired in endless debate about shit that isn't even really the point and so the point that we are not equal is lost or distorted more often than not before the conversation on the meat of the matter can even happen.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)Note all the complaining about "white privilege" contains absolutely zero proposals for any solutions. Not even a hint of a direction as to what might be the solution. It's a problem designed not to be solved.
For anyone seriously concerned about institutional racism (a much more accurate and less offensive term to the concept being discussed), there's no more sensible goal than ending the War on Drugs, with its police state violence and criminal injustice pseudo-slavery machine. There's a well-defined target with a clear solution: repeal the laws that enable the targeting-under-law of black Americans and the government violence perpetrated against them across the spectrum of disparate enforcement and mass incarceration.
Wrongs being done disproportionately to black people do not a privilege make for non-blacks. That, to me, is what is really offensive here - the idea that, if we were to completely eliminate this alleged privilege, it would somehow be reasonable to have violence and mass incarceration perpetrated against everybody equally - as if that is some solution.
That's no solution. The solution to injustice being done to some is not in any way to do that same injustice to everybody else - and that is precisely what the use of the term "privilege" implies.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)White privilege means that no matter how hard the black person works, or how lucky he is, even if he accumulates wealth or a professional status, he will STILL be disadvantaged compared to many white people, even white people without the wealth or accomplishments he has achieved.
So someone like Eric Holder can be stopped by the police for running across the street because he was late for an appointment -- something which wouldn't have happened to a white lawyer if he were running in the same location.
No one thinks that the way to end white privilege is to detain every white person who is in a hurry to get somewhere. Obviously, the way to end white privilege is not to DISADVANTAGE the black person compared to the white person.
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)Income doesn't enter into the equation for racists. One can even be homeless and yet, by being white, enjoy "privileges" that aren't afforded to African-Americans of any income level. When you apply for a job, you don't have to be worried about being turned away because of your race. When you apply for housing, you don't have to be worried about being turned away because of your race. When you interact with the police, you don't have to worry about being harassed, arrested, or even killed, because of your race. These are just a handful out of many, many examples.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)I don't think telling a broke person how privileged they are is going to make them happier about their lot in life. It reminds me of the conservative argument of how well off the poor in America are compared to their poor counterparts in the rest of the world because they have a tv, a refrigerator, and a microwave.