Nevermind Zimmerman's head, what is in the background?

[Duer 157099]

Those of you with photo software, go ahead and lighten up the image until you can see what is just to the right of his neck. Is that something on the ground/grass, and if so, what is it? Or is it his arm, and does it show him holding the gun?

[boston bean]

1. don't know what is might be on the ground, but

it looks like he might have a cell phone to his ear.

[HereSince1628]

7. I agree. It's certainly positioned where I would expect his right ear..

[Duer 157099]

17. Yep, now I see it, thanks n/t

[badtoworse]

2. It doesn't look like a gun to me

I lightened it up with Photoshop and I can't tell what the object is. What kind of gun did he have?

[csziggy]

52. Kel-Tec PF9

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pf-9/

[badtoworse]

55. Thanks.

[FranMonet]

3. I think its a phone

I think that is a cell phone he is holding to his ear

[boston bean]

4. I think it might be his arm holding a cell phone to his ear. nt

[TorchTheWitch]

5. looks to me like he's holding a cellphone to his ear n/t

[appleannie1]

6. First of all, that is a balding person and he has very short hair.

Second of all, if he had been laying on the ground, the blood should be smeared. That blood is running down, which means he was standing. Third the blood is more like from a scratch instead of a deep wound and there is no swelling. It looks more like while rolling around on the ground he scratched his head but stood up long before it actually bled. Real head wounds gush blood because the vessels are so close to the surface. If you have ever had a head wound you will know what I am talking about.

[badtoworse]

8. I've had a number of head wounds

They usually bleed profusely, but not always. Some bled a lot more than others.

[Ecumenist]

13. GASHES TO THE SCALP BLEED LIKE STUCK PIGS, badtoworse!! THESE AREN'T GASHES! It's the reason why

the EMS folks were able to clean him up in the back seat of the police car. All the himming and hawing in the world won't change that fact.

[badtoworse]

19. As a teen, I got hit in the head with a brick once and it made a pretty good gash (5 stitches)

Of course it bled, but not as much as you might expect. About 10 years ago, I was working in the shed and an old propeller fell off the wall where it was hanging. It hit me in the head and I needed 4 staples to close the wound. My wife thought I was going to bleed out on the way to the Emergency Room. Head wounds do tend to be bloody, but without knowing exactly how the wound happened, I don't think you can generalize.

[Ecumenist]

44. I can because of my background in medicine.

ETA, even if it didn't bleed much in the beginning, there's NO WAY IN HELL that they would have COMPLETELY stopped bleeding without significant swelling and bruising, with at least a sort of "weeping" of blood by the time he got to the station! The "artifact" seen on his head that was discovered in the supposedly enhanced photo at the station is in a COMPLETELY different area of the head AND it's a vertical cut vs these two horizontal scratches.

Do you honestly believe that EMS techs would have cancelled this ambulance and not transported him to hospital if he had serious gashes? REALLY?

[badtoworse]

48. Who actually made the decision not to take him to the ER? Did he refuse treatment?

To answer your question, it's hard to say. If Z's head was not struck by something with an edge, the gashes might not have been deep and might not have bled so much. From what I've seen, the evidence seems to be conflicting and it may be impossible to conclusively prove exactly what happened. I don't think the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard can be met in this case.

[Ecumenist]

49. Well, the one thing we have to do in that case is wait until the trial and see what the prosecution

has. I suspect there's ALOT of information the have that shows why they charged him the way he did.

[badtoworse]

50. I agree with that

We have hundred's of CSI's on DU "proving" what happened, but the reality is that no one really knows. We're just going to have to wait for the trial to see what comes out.

[Ecumenist]

51. I believe the reason that people are talking the way they are is because this has happened so MANY

TIMES! Add the fact that zimmy the giggling psychopath has lied so many times that it almost preculdes giving him the benefit of the doubt. He even told a bold faced lie yesterday on the stand and millions of people who have been following this case CAUGHT.IT.RIGHT.AWAY. So, I will NOT BE SURPRISED to find out there's blatant evidence that he murdered a kid when he was getting his ass whipped when he confronted a 17 Y/O kid!

[jpak]

9. He would have to be sitting down for someone to take a photo from that angle

and if he was lying on his back getting his head smashed by Trayvon Martin there would have been blood on top of his head as well - not just dribbling down

[badtoworse]

11. Has it been established who actually took the photo?

[Ecumenist]

15. According the creep frank taaffe, it was a neighbor who took it on a phone camera.

[badtoworse]

21. Interesting, did the prosecution have it before the indictment?

[Ecumenist]

45. I don't know. We'll find out when the trial begins.

[Ecumenist]

10. No grass stains or enough blood to make it to his actual neck! Collar looks

PRISTINE!!! and for those of you who have insisted that Trayvon was on top of this "thing" bashing his head in, if that is the case, why aren't there bloody smudges instead of bloody trickle paths barely coursing TOWARD HIS FACE and DOWN TOWARDS HIS NECK, no the other way around??

[PotatoChip]

12. I'm hesitant to say this- pure speculation on my part, but

could that be Trayvon's body lying facedown? I don't know what the object is, but could the rest be Trayvon's torso, arm and a small visible part of his hand?

Although, I find it hard to believe that who ever took the pic would do it right there, but there has already been alot of strange behavior on the part of the cops on scene that night.

[badtoworse]

14. It's hard to say for sure, but I would say it's possible.

[Duer 157099]

16. Nah, after reading upthread, now I'm convinced it is his arm and his cellphone

But what you describe was my first thought too. Look again and I think you'll see that it is his arm and him holding his cellphone to his ear.

So then, who was he on the phone with???

[eShirl]

18. with Daddy Dear, is my guess.

[PotatoChip]

20. Ok, I think I see what you mean (nt)

[Duer 157099]

22. Also note the red in the crook of his arm/elbow

The photos of him at the police station show his jacket with a red collar, black shoulders and black down to about the elbow. That is consistent with the colors here, with that tiny bit of red right where the elbow would be.

[PotatoChip]

23. Yes. Upon closer examination

it's clear that the jacket is more then just the red color. You can clearly see the darker part of it on the inner collar and sleeve. Knowing that helps make the picture appear entirely different from my first impression.

And he definitely appears to be on a cell phone. EShirl is probably right- Talking to daddy, I bet.

[HereSince1628]

24. If real, and in evidence, said pic was available to States Atty, when she charged 2nd degree

murder.

We don't know anything about the provenance or context of the photo, including how many times previous to the photo this head was wiped.

That sort of ends my need to consider any speculation made of this.

[procon]

25. This photo is cropped

as it is not a standard size, so it would be useful, in context, to know what else might be visible in the raw image.

Sorry, but I can't upload from my location, but I did enhance the image, and when the tone is better adjusted, you can clearly see that someone wearing long dark blue sleeves with some lort of a red/gold emblem, and black gloves, is is holding a phone to Zimmerman's ear.


Looking at the photos showing Zimmerman being escorted into the police station, you can clearly see that his jacket has red sleeves and cuffs, not dark blue, so it's different than what the person holding the phone is wearing.








What are the odds that whoever was holding the camera, ONLY took this one photo and did not also photograph the body of the victim as well?

[csziggy]

54. How about the differences in the color of the shoulders of the jacket?

The shot from the police station shows that Zimmerman's jacket has dark gray/black shoulders. The shot with the 'injuries' when ABC panned across the image shows a red collar on a red jacket.

Check the two videos:
At just after the 30 second mark, then both after the 2 minute mark: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/zimmerman-injuries-exclusive-photo-night-trayvon-martin-death-16178849

At just after the 1 minute mark: http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475

The difference in the red color could just the lighting, but it seems awfully different to me.

[cr8tvlde]

26. Nevermind it can't possibly be GZ

Bald on top...bald between "rivulets of blood"...and below red stuff on the left. In fact the bald is inbetween the two smudges of red stuff.

Skin color ... neck, ear and bald head ... white.

ABC/NBC...more "fair and balanced" media outlets

[Duer 157099]

27. It looks very much like GZ to me

The "bald spot" on top is an artifact. Otherwise, it looks just like him to me.

[cr8tvlde]

34. What's an artifact, in this context?

That photo could be anybody. But that anybody has a definite hairline ... and real smudgy red stuff that looks like the Vampire Blood we used for Halloween.

[csziggy]

53. I think there was another source of light that blew out the color on the top

As if someone was holding a flashlight on Zimmerman's head and it freaked out the phone camera and it overexposed.

On a different forum, someone with short hair, not bald experimented with taking pictures of the top of his head and got a very similar effect. Without a flashlight shining on his head you could see his hair 'stubble'; with the flashlight, he looked bald and had a very white spot on top.

We suggested that he then try dribbling catsup across the top of his head to simulate the injuries, but he declined.

[NutmegYankee]

28. It looks like a cell phone.

He has the classic "on the phone" pose.

[GoCubsGo]

29. Before all y'all trust this ABC News "EXCLUSIVE" photo...

...I recommend watching this week's "Frontline" on PBS, which discusses crime scene forensics. They produced another "EXCLUSIVE" photo during the Casey Anthony affair that proved to be not so legitimate. I don't trust ABC "News" farther than I can toss a ten ton rock.

[doc03]

30. The TV report I saw said it was on a cell phone within

3 minutes of the shooting.

[Junkdrawer]

31. Google "change image timestamp"

Not hard

[doc03]

35. I suppose that is possible. I would expect the police would have

photographs of his injuries, Trayvon's injuries and photos of the crime scene. We haven't seen any of that
so I won't be judge, jury and executioner of Zimmerman until I know all facts. If they find Zimmerman guilty
I have no problem with whatever they do to him either.

[Junkdrawer]

41. As for the Sanford PD....

I hate to have to remind everyone that Police Chief Bill Lee and States Attorney Norm Wolfinger either voluntarily or by a No Confidence vote were removed from the case. For good cause.

We are in a very weird place where it's not a "Conspiracy Theory" to question everything and anything that comes from that quarter. And that hurts BOTH sides.

Early on, Mike Papantonio said that this case is so bollixed, that a conviction seemed unlikely. I see what he means now.

[GoCubsGo]

38. Again...

What the "TV" (once again, ABC News) reported regarding a photo they presented as "exclusive evidence" in the Casey Anthony case, turned out not to be legitimate. Just sayin'.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Here it is slightly lighter.

[maddezmom]

33. I said yesterday it looked like a cell phone and with your image

still does.

[SoCalDem]

37. photo lighter..gun barrel pointing down to something gray?

[maddezmom]

39. looks like the arm of his jacket to me

but who knows.

[cr8tvlde]

36. His hairline has dropped an inch or so given the lighter version. n/t

[maddezmom]

40. the strangest thing is he looks like he has a large bald spot

but it could just be the flash/light.

and here there are no signs.

[cr8tvlde]

46. This is 6 weeks later...but he's surely not bald...that doesn't change

If the new photo is to be believed, which I don't, he has quite the floating hairline. One frame only, like the others, is suspect. If someone were really trying to validate the person, you'd think they'd take at least a side photo, as well.

[doublethink]

42. Cell phone to his ear...

with his own right arm, hand, and had to be less then 3 minutes after he shot Treyvon dead. He was in handcuffs 3 minutes after shooting Treyvon. Who was he calling? Daddy? And daddy then called the "appropriate" authorities to get him off?

As a side note the 'photographer' that took this pic also stated that George also asked him to 'call his wife' ... tell her he shot somebody (while George was calling somebody else). Soooooo gotta figure this photographer had George's wifes number in his phones memory and was a friend .... how did this friend get there so fast before even the police? I read up on this alot last night ... back later with links if anyone interested.

on edit: spelling ... and to clarify ...

[shimonitanegi]

47. Maybe he called his friend right before he shot Martin

Who knows? Anything is possible.

[rug]

43. I see a carrot.

[jenmito]

56. And why no picture of his "broken" nose??? n/t

[madashelltoo]

58. NO VISIBLE EVIDENCE . . .

that's why. His fracture was so slight that it barely can be called broken and most likely it was caused by firing the gun so close to his own body that the recoil hit him in the face. It happened so fast, GZ didn't realize the gun had even hit him in the face.

[mzmolly]

57. Is there a way to verify that he actually took this pic on his phone

on the evening in question, vs. altered the date/time, using photo-shop, later?